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Old 05-16-2002, 10:04 AM   #1
Flashblade
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 79
My Point on JK2 MP Saber Combat

Well I compare saber battles pre and post patch and there has not much changed at all. The game is still pretty much air slashing with slightly more parries and blocks. There are still many ppl out there making the same combination of moves again and again and again. Sometimes I wonder if these guys are fighting me or the air. They expect from me that I step in their circle of moves but I won't do so. One time there was this guy who exactly fits into this picture. He was "performing" in heavy stance making a couple of slashes than a dfa and again and again and again. Is this sword fighting of any kind? On the other hand are the guys who think spinning like a whirlwind is the answer without even having their enemy in range. Is this sword fighting of any kind? I do not think so. In the ordinary fight ppl are running around like mad trying to get a hit with the sabers rarely connecting. Why is this not sword fighting of any kind?? Because in sword fight nobody is running. I NEVER EVER saw a sword fight where ppl where running around like this! Why is this so? You can't have a sword fight running around like this not even to mention you would be out of breath pretty soon.

I don't know whether you ever tried to have a battle while only walking. I know it feels to relaxed but you will notice one thing. This battle will be over very quick. The reason for that is there is not enough parrying while swinging. Now ppl will scream NO NOT EVEN MORE PARRYING it is allready to much. This is not the case if you try to have this more realistic walking battle. In SP you have this command g_sabermovespeed which slows you down while you are swinging your saber. I can't understand while it isn't even in Multiplayer as an option. If set to 0.5 it feels right. That way some ppl could have nearly realistic saber fights while there could be this wannabe battles as well. When I say nearly realistic I mean that there are still some things missing. As I allready said there would be even more parries needed than it is now the case because still to many swings go through. Think about it a Jedi is not killed bye 4 to 5 slashes. One error can allready mean his death so this should be the same thing in JK2.

A Jedi powered by the force can fight a long time but at one point the battle is starting to wear him out. The moment this happens the posibility of an error rises. That is one thing totally missing in JK2. Stamina should be a factor. Somebody who swings like mad is wearing out much quicker than somebody who fights with more control over his moves. If Stamina would be in this game we really could have epic saber battles. Let me explain better what I want to say by that.

At the beginning of the duel Stamina is 100% so blocks and swings are fast. At this point blocks are 100% . During the battle stamina drops and when reaching a set percentage blocks and swings become slower the likeness of an error increases. When one of the opponents is exhausted he is really slow and blocking drops even more. This is the moment the fatal blow becomes very likely. Remember: Why has Luke lost his Hand? It was because he was to exhausted to counter any of Vaders blows effectively. Why does the same thing happen to Vader on the Death Star? Because this time he was to exhausted to parry the blows. Why was Qui Gon killed by Maul? He was exhausted as well. (Hmm goes not for Darth Maul though. I will never understand why he showed not any reaction when Obi-Wan jumped over him!)

You could even make the stamina adjustable so that you could have quick battles as well which most ppl seem to prefer. Blocking would cost Stamina as well so that nobody could just stand there and let his opponent attack keeping his Stamina that way. By that way the damage a Saber is inflicting could be the damage of a Lightsaber again.

On the other hand there is something that need to be removed. I talk about the so called "finishing moves". I mean what the hell is that. It is the most unrealistic thing in JK2 Saber battles I can think of. It is not the move that needs to be removed though it is what it is capable of. Think of two ppl fighting with swords or sabers. One performs one of those finishing moves and the other blocks the move the following dialog would start:

Hey what have you done, you can't just block that move!!

Um huh why can't I ???

It is a finishing move it is UNBLOCKABLE you have to let this go through!!!!

Ah I see I will remember that the next time you use it.

This sounds funny doesn't it? Sure because every swing or stab can be blocked with a respective counter. For me that is the way it should be in JK2 too!

Another thing that bugs me is the heavy stance. Sorry ppl but it is senseless. Why should a slow move with not much power behind it (you need power to be quick not to be slow) cause so much damage or knock of the defense like that. It makes no sense in reality it would be weak and easy to block. IMO stances should very more by style and less by speed.

Another thing is why should my defence vary with the stance I use. Can't I put as much power in a block as I want to in every stance??

When you are being pushed or pulled and lie on the ground you are completely defenseless. You sure should be defenseless for a brief moment but after that you should be able to block swings with a penalty. Since you have the sword in hand this seems logic to me. One thing I hated most in SP was when Desann threw me somewhere and than throwing the saber while I was about to stand up. I should be able to either 1) block that saber or 2) stand up after that saber flow back to his hand. Standing up by choice seems for me more appropriate as standing up automatic as well. The defense on ground could be even combined with stamina. If you are exhausted you would be knocked of control longer while you where almost back to it in an instant with stamina close to 100%. (By control I mean the ability to defend yourself while lying)

What I really would like to see is that per chance your saber is being knocked of your hand when thrown somewhere. Would things make even more realistic.

I like the change to Forcegrip in the patch. You shouldn't be able to run around so easily while you are gripping somebody like this. I would even take the next step and say make it unavailable. The reason for that is that I don't think it can be used on Jedi. Its the same as with mind trick it only works on non forcesensitive individuals. Remember the movies. Vader uses it once on the Death Star against this officer in ANH. He uses it again to kill Admiral Needa and the other Star Destroyer Captain in Empire. You never see it being used on a Jedi. On the other hand grip is quite cool I admit so there would be much complaining if it would be removed.

Talking about force use. I think it is MUCH to easy to use the force during a saber battle. The Jedi allready uses the force for his saber so it should be more difficult to be pulled of during saber fighting. In the middle of a fight you should be limited to push and pull with a big delay. To pull of high power forces you should even have to part some time from your opponent (high power= heal, absorb, drain, lightning etc.) . Again I refer to the movies here. During a saber battle the only thing ever used was push. In the scene Vader threw all the stuff at Luke they weren't engaged.

To sum up what I would like to see:

include an option for g_sabermovespeed 0.5 in MP


Add Stamina to the game and make it adjustable

increase parrying and blocking even more (100% @ 100% Stamina)

get rid of "finishing move" being not blockable

get rid of the heavy stance it is senseless

defence should be always the same and not vary by stance

make style changes to eacht stance and don't change speed so much

add some defence capability while lying being influenced by stamina

let me stand up when I actually want to do it

add the possibility that per chance your saber is being knocked of when thrown

make the only forces usable during saber fighting push and pull with a high delay after us and make it so that you have to part for the use of high power forces with even more appropriate delay

I know it will never happen but that is what I would like to see in JK2 MP saber fighting. I know it will never happen but I wanted to share my thoughts with anyone who maybe thinks alike!
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