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Old 07-05-2002, 10:53 AM   #41
Locke101
 
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personally for me, GTK Radiant has alot more options and tools to help make more detailed and better maps But i also think that GTK Radiant is for more advancded users, or people who have tried to edit Quake 3 based games before and wish to really commit to making maps for JO. the radiant taht ravensoft put out is good, but i find it unstable on my comp, and i always have compile problems with it. Plus, it doesn't come with all those cool plugins that GTK RADIANT COMES WITH!!!! hehe well its just MY OPINION

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Old 07-07-2002, 12:07 AM   #42
Wes Marrakesh
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emon
More tutorials for JK2Radiant?? YOU ARE FOOLS! The tutorials will work for GTKRadiant, EFRadiant, MoHRadiant, Q3Radiant, anything as long as it is not game specific like ICARUS 2 for JO, and in the case of GTK vs JK2 for JO, it doesn't matter.

You can even use old QERADIANT tutorials made for QUAKE II on any of the newer Q3 based Radiants. A lot is the same.

RichDeisal, what are you smoking?? JK2Rad doesn't even let you clone brushes, because you get a memory error. Vertex dragging is ****ed out of the wazoo, and it crashes like crazy.
WTF you talking about? What have YOU been smoking?
Just clone the selected brsuh with space, it nevers screws up. I think your comp is punishing you for your ue of GTK.
I use JK2R partly because it is for JO
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Old 07-08-2002, 04:41 AM   #43
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I use GTK Radiant and I like it alot.
It's pretty easy too...I just started making maps and I'm getting the hang of it.


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(SP) Kejim Outpost - Sector 2
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Old 07-19-2002, 08:14 AM   #44
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I think I know what clone crash he is talking about. In JKRad, when you add a func to a brush, and then remove it, and then clone that brush... it crashes. Every time.

I just now installed gtk, after being frustrated with some minor probs with jk2rad.
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Old 07-19-2002, 09:13 AM   #45
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I hate both = )

GTK and JKRAD compared.



GTK-----Stable

JKRAD--Unstable

GTK-----Uses a ####load of mem

JKRAD--Uses less mem

GTK-----Easy to manipulate Patch Meshes

JKRAD--Impossible to do the same

GTK-----Great, GREAT 3d Navigation

JKRAD--Horrid, HORRID 3d Nav

GTK-----Long compile times, can mess up

JKRAD--Faster comp times, does a better job

GTK-----Decent 2d view

JKRAD--Not bad, but not as easy to see as GTK

GTK-----Shaders will not work well or compile

JKRAD--Shaders work and compile well

GTK-----Slightly more(VERY USEFUL) options

JKRAD--Misses out on GTK’s options

GTK-----Pain to install, quits working sometimes

JKRAD--Easy install--can install incorrectly

GTK-----Undos an unlimited amount of X

JKRAD--Can only undo once. (cntrl-z)

GTK-----Full NPC list only viewable at 1280x768

JKRAD--NPC list scrolls

GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly

JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast

GTK-----JKII only features don’t work well

JKRAD--JKII only features work better

GTK-----Most entities can be viewed in 3d

JKRAD--Most entities appear as a solid box
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 07-19-2002, 04:16 PM   #46
Emon
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"GTK-----Stable JKRAD--Unstable

True.

"GTK-----Uses a ####load of mem JKRAD--Uses less mem"

GTK uses 20MB of system RAM, JK2Rad uses 15. BIIIG difference...

"GTK-----Easy to manipulate Patch Meshes JKRAD--Impossible to do the same"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Great, GREAT 3d Navigation JKRAD--Horrid, HORRID 3d Nav"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Long compile times, can mess up JKRAD--Faster comp times, does a better job"

Load of crap. GTKRad and JK2Rad both use SOF2MAP to compile and use the same command lines. Compiling is identicle.

"GTK-----Decent 2d view JKRAD--Not bad, but not as easy to see as GTK"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Shaders will not work well or compile JKRAD--Shaders work and compile well"

Oook. Your GTK is setup wrong or something (what's so hard about it, anyways?).

"GTK-----Slightly more(VERY USEFUL) options JKRAD--Misses out on GTK’s options"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Pain to install, quits working sometimes JKRAD--Easy install--can install incorrectly"

Pain to install? How so? I'm sorry, but anyone having trouble installing GTK must be a complete and total MORON. Perhaps you are just too stupid to select "Jedi Knight II" and the auto-load function when you first install? I know plenty of very experianced editors with NO problems installing.

"GTK-----Undos an unlimited amount of X JKRAD--Can only undo once. (cntrl-z)"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Full NPC list only viewable at 1280x768 JKRAD--NPC list scrolls"

Yeah, but you can um, bring up the entity window in GTK and just select another NPC from the list...

"GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast"

Um, never seen that.

"GTK-----JKII only features don’t work well JKRAD--JKII only features work better"

What JO only features?


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Old 07-20-2002, 01:20 AM   #47
RichDiesal
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>>GTK-----Stable
>>JKRAD--Unstable
Apparently only if your computer sucks. I've never had a problem with stability in either.

>>GTK-----Uses a ####load of mem
>>JKRAD--Uses less mem
Not a large enough difference to matter either way.

>>GTK-----Easy to manipulate Patch Meshes
>>JKRAD--Impossible to do the same
Vertex editing too difficult for you? They both seem just as difficult as the other, there is really no difference besides "You need to learn to do things two different ways." If you got used to GTK's method and then are simply too lazy or stupid to learn JK2's method, then that's really just sad more than anything else.

>>GTK-----Great, GREAT 3d Navigation
>>JKRAD--Horrid, HORRID 3d Nav
Again, they're just different. What's so horrible and difficult about right-clicking and holding the mouse button down? Is this some new amazing skill you need to learn?

>>GTK-----Long compile times, can mess up
>>JKRAD--Faster comp times, does a better job
They're the same in matters of pure speed. Does not matter.

>>GTK-----Decent 2d view
>>JKRAD--Not bad, but not as easy to see as GTK
Different colors? Oh no, I can't see black lines on white as well as white lines on black! GOD, THE PAIN!

>>GTK-----Shaders will not work well or compile
>>JKRAD--Shaders work and compile well
They should be the same, unless you set up GTK badly.

>>GTK-----Slightly more(VERY USEFUL) options
>>JKRAD--Misses out on GTK’s options
Quite true. In fact, that's really the only true advantage to GTKR over JK2R.

>>GTK-----Pain to install, quits working sometimes
>>JKRAD--Easy install--can install incorrectly
Everything can install incorrectly if you don't know what the hell you're doing. That's an ID-10T error in either case.

>>GTK-----Undos an unlimited amount of X
>>JKRAD--Can only undo once. (cntrl-z)
Never needed to undo, so couldn't tell ya.

>>GTK-----Full NPC list only viewable at 1280x768
>>JKRAD--NPC list scrolls
True, but anyone that makes maps should be at high resolutions anyway.

>>GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly
>>JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast
I believe that's because GTK loads texturesets in realtime, when you scroll to them, instead of when you load the texture set. Not sure on that though.

>>GTK-----JKII only features don’t work well
>>JKRAD--JKII only features work better
Eh, there are a few things that JK2R handles much better, but the list really isn't that long.

>>GTK-----Most entities can be viewed in 3d
>>JKRAD--Most entities appear as a solid box
What entities do you need to see other than models? Does the solid box somehow intimidate and frighten you? Everything that appears as a solid box appears as a solid box because you don't NEED to see it rendered, and it just wastes video memory (something GTK likes to do) if it is rendered.


I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes to reply to this. No wait, I can.


There are three things that I paricularly hate: kids, animals, and women with attitudes.

http://richdiesal.jedioutcastmaps.com - Map Showcase and Tutorials!
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Old 07-20-2002, 01:40 AM   #48
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>>GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly
>>JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast
>>I believe that's because GTK loads texturesets in
>>realtime, when you scroll to them, instead of when
>> you load the texture set. Not sure on that though.

GTK scales itself based on system memory.

When I first started editing, the machine I was using had 256 megs of ram, and GTK would stop and load textures almost every time I tried to scroll.

Once I had 512 or more this stopped entirely and I could view a full texture set without any pauses whatsoever.

In other words, GTK won't load as much if it would totally use up all your memory. Which is a good thing, except on lower end machines it will be painful to use.

At any rate, I use GTK because it seems to be better supported.. it's in active development. It also runs on linux.. which means I can do my brushwork easily at work if I have some free time, then when I get home do a build and see if I like the results. Using gtk saves me from having to use two different editors.
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Old 07-20-2002, 03:02 AM   #49
Karshaddii
 
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Umm excuse me?

GTK 20 megs of ram?
JKRAD 15 megs of ram?

Maybe running a blank map, boy--but when you working on a full and detailed map and making very complicated patch meshes--GTK can use up to 700 megs of memory!!!

On an average (working on a detailed map with textures viewed as bilinear) it uses 126 megs.

JKRAD uses FAR less mem for some reason. Maybe cause it uses less plugins--I dunno.

Now as for the compiling--

What I said was NOT a load of crap--

Yes--both use SOFTMAP to compile--so theoretically they would both compile the same way right? WRONG!!!

Its not the compiler—it’s the level editor—for some reason GTK just does not like my water brushes—and it will compile them as a solid void. It will do other funky stuff too for JKII-only effects and waypoints. But when I load the map I made in GTK into JKRAD and compile it in JKRAD—it works fine.

So there = P


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 07-20-2002, 03:10 AM   #50
Karshaddii
 
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Oh BTW--How come RichDeisal and Emon you always seem to pick on me!!


Also in response:

Gtk is a pain to install. No, it's not difficult to click the next button--but sometimes it just WILL not install. It will say ERROR! at the end of install. Or it will start up and bi*** about some file missing. It doesn't like being installed.

About the 2d view thing.

Its not A BIG DEAL OK? I prefer GTK's 2d view better-- I like dotted lines--makes manipulating brushes that are 0.25 on the grid scale alot easier. For noobs like you Rich Diesal = ), the plain red box in JKRAD is just as good as the one in GTK.

Oh yeah, and my PIV 2.0 with 512 megs of SDRAM and an All In Wonder Radeon 8500 with 128 megs of DDR mem is really sucky.

I think I'll go upgrade to an Athalon 200 and a Voodo 3


I hope you guys know that when I called the god of editing that is Rich Diesal a noob--I was kidding.


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 07-20-2002, 03:17 AM   #51
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Another thing--No, I can't believe that you wasted three minutes of your life to reply to the problems that I PERSONNALLY AND NO ONE ELSE HAS with these two programs--and most of it I was being sarcastic--and change it and respond aggressively like I was doing an actual, technical, comparison of the two programs.

I mean seriously--what is with you guys?? I never said THESE ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE TWO PROGRAMS.

I said--hinting that I was being sarcastic "I hate them bothe = ) "

Good SithSpit!


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 07-20-2002, 08:54 AM   #52
RichDiesal
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Geez man, go get some ice cream, cool down a bit.


There are three things that I paricularly hate: kids, animals, and women with attitudes.

http://richdiesal.jedioutcastmaps.com - Map Showcase and Tutorials!
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Old 07-20-2002, 01:09 PM   #53
Karshaddii
 
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Hey, thats MY line!!!

or is that the point....





= )


Today isn't your lucky day....tommorrow isn't looking good either...
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Old 07-20-2002, 10:21 PM   #54
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alright children, calm down, don't need a flame war here.

Both editors work good and can coexist together peacefully.
If you don't like the way one works and don't want to use it, then don't use it, use the other one. It's all just apples and oranges, different people, different tastes.

Oh, and as for the gtkradiant installation difficulty. I too have had problems installing it. Not because I don't know how, but the damn thing doesn't seem to want to install on my computer. Maybe there are certain OS's that it doesn't like. I got WinMe, came with the computer, never had any need to upgrade. But it kept getting an installation error, and the only way I could find past it was to just keep trying and eventually the installation worked. GTK stopped working on me for a while so I had to install it twice, both times created the same problems.


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Old 07-21-2002, 01:33 AM   #55
Emon
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If you're having problems with GTK, it's because you didn't install it right, or your system is ****ed up. Myself and other experianced, INTELLIGANT editors have had *NO* problems with GTK, EVER. So if there's something wrong with it, it's you or your PC, not the editor.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 07-21-2002, 08:47 AM   #56
RichDiesal
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So I suppose since I and many other intelligent, experienced editors have used JK2 Radiant without any trouble, that says the same of you?


There are three things that I paricularly hate: kids, animals, and women with attitudes.

http://richdiesal.jedioutcastmaps.com - Map Showcase and Tutorials!
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