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Old 07-29-2002, 08:07 PM   #41
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Why do ppl have to think, just because YOU have a saber, it means that is going to be the sabering in JK2... Is an rpg.. not a FPS... come on guys.. stop dreaming


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Old 07-30-2002, 05:05 AM   #42
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I started this thread to just see what people thought about the sabering in KOTOR vs JKII but it seems it has changed to a debate to whether KOTOR will be scripted and if we will have control or not.

I just saw in the trailer that the saber fights looked alot more like the movie fights. Which I though JKII didn't accomplish.

When people said that it was scripted...i went back and looked at the trailer and there is apart in the trailer where the "lead character" is being charged by some time of animal and he pulls out his lightsaber and swings once. He didn't fight it by a script..or it didn't seem that way. It seemd like there was someone controling how he swung...check it out and let me know what you think about that one.

43 sec
56 sec
57 sec....just look these over.


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Old 07-30-2002, 11:41 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by KnightHawk420
Well of course the saber battles look better. You don't really think lucas would show off assfighting in a demo do ya. hehe
Actually they did, and we all nearly drowned at the awesome backstab action taking down the reborn. We know the place now as the crates on Cairn before you reach the Doomgiver, and I've used that area to try to reproduce the move.

For me, the purpose of KOTOR won't be FPS action, so point and click for the saber fight will be ok.

Mike
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Old 07-30-2002, 12:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by CorranHornjr

I just saw in the trailer that the saber fights looked alot more like the movie fights. Which I though JKII didn't accomplish.
O.K. let's get back on topic. I don't think no matter how good you are at JKII you can't make it look like the movies, because you basiclly press the button to attack hoping to hit the other person with an occasional special move thrown in there. Some people may be better at it than others, but they all fight the same way. KOTOR looks like a great game that I will definatley get when it comes out. Being that it's and RPG, though the saber fights may look more realistic but have less control. That being said I don't know which games sabering is better, because they have there own qualities in diffrent genres.


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Old 07-30-2002, 01:51 PM   #45
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old ben i see you changed your icon...anywho, well said. They are different genres. I guess I am always waiting for Lucasarts to bring out a game that simulates you being able to be a jedi..walk around and relate to people, go on missions given to you by the jedi counsel and fight like jedi. Of course I have been watching these movies since I was 5 and I am now 20. I don't know if a game will ever really capture what it is like to be a jedi or have saber fights as fast and realistic as the movies...but they are getting closer. So when I saw the trailer I thought, "finally somone has put it back to what it is supposed to be...a close range fight." This game looks very promising and I just wish that maybe jedi Knight II would be a little more realistic..because you actually get to control Kyle which rocks. (In KOTOR you can make your own lightsaber..which is cool.) Who knows, maybe there will be a Jedi Knight III and we will get to be more of a jedi, relate with more popular star wars characters and wear a robe and not always have to go back and get your lightsaber back.. we will just start with it.

heres hoping...

maybe the next jedi knight will have Corran Horn as the main character...*crosses fingers*
haha


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Old 07-30-2002, 04:25 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by CorranHornjr

I just saw in the trailer that the saber fights looked alot more like the movie fights. Which I though JKII didn't accomplish.

wuts up with ppl and wanting to fight like the movies!? In the movies, you swing swing, block, block, swing etc... I dont think There will a game JUST exactly like the movies... "oh no, i cant duel like movies!! JK2 sux!!" I dont think JK2 was aiming to fight like the movies, but the other way around... but o well.. stupid ppl and their movies..


It is obvious this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with the lightsaber."

-Count Dooku

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Old 07-30-2002, 09:01 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by HellFyre69

In the movies, you swing swing, block, block, swing etc... I dont think There will a game JUST exactly like the movies... "oh no, i cant duel like movies!! JK2 sux!!" I dont think JK2 was aiming to fight like the movies, but the other way around... but o well.. stupid ppl and their movies..
I never said that JKII sucked because it doesn't. All I am saying is that I, not you, I would like a game that did have more Movie like fights. It is more realistic fighting. YOu can't tell me that you don't like watching Episode I when darth Maul and obi-wan go at it. But if you would rather hack at then that is your opinion. I said that there probably wouldn't be a game that would capture it. And I am not complaining..just stating something that I would like to see happen...

man I wish people would READ what people write and not skim. What is the point of these threads if nobody reads!


And then there were was one...
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Old 07-30-2002, 10:58 PM   #48
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I hope the new sw rpg games will play like morrowind


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Old 07-30-2002, 11:34 PM   #49
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lol, there's NO WAY you'll be able to saber battle in KOTOR like you can in JO

SWG on the other hand...... I hope it'll be like JO, saber battle wise. I really can't see how being a jedi will be so great if ya can't saber battle like that.
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Old 07-30-2002, 11:52 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by CorranHornjr

man I wish people would READ what people write and not skim. What is the point of these threads if nobody reads!
Me reading the whole thing u just said

"blah blah blah blah blah blah"

ok.. I agree (LOL)...

ok..

First of all u started this thread comparing KOTR and JKII... then u said that KOTR look a lot like the movies.. which JK2 Failed... I dont think JK2 was aiming to duel JUST like the movies... IN fact i think it was just trying to make another SW game...
Now to get off topic

If you would read the previews of many sites (gamespot,IGN etc) or at least read some previews in magazines (electronic gaming montly, COmputer gaming world, pc gamer) You would know that KOTR is a rpg.. and therefore is not going to feel like the movie...


now i'm going to read the other threads..

*me reads the threads out load "blah blah blah blah"* =)


It is obvious this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with the lightsaber."

-Count Dooku

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Old 07-31-2002, 01:12 AM   #51
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I agree that JO wasn't made to be like the movies...but was hyped to be the most like the movies..so i guess when I came into it I had high expectations. So it just failed my expectations. I do know that it is a RPG and I guess that is why I was hoping for better saber fights. Jk has awesome action and intense battling when you spawn 15 reborn and it is just you and your lightsaber...that is fun.

So I yeah you are right Hellfye69, I did start this thread to compare so lets get back to doing that. I just got a little heated. haha.

Sorry about the whole "read" thing..it is just this happenes alot and people get on each others backs just because they didn't read it all. So sorry for jumping to save myself. haha. funny stuff.

I put g_sabercollision at "2" and SaberFirsttrace at 2....would that make a difference? Or do they just have 2 settings? 0 and 1?

I guess I just like the intense feeling of having to parry and then react..the heat of the battle like in the movies...i say "in the movies" but I mean "real sabering"

Scripted or not...the trailer DID look more like a movie shot..give me that atleast?.

I am amazed that this thread has gone as far as it has...and i wis more people would give an opinion of what they think of the JKII sabering...


And then there were was one...
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Old 07-31-2002, 01:35 AM   #52
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Well, JK2 doesn't play like the movies but it's pretty damn close. I think it's more a matter of people not trying to duel like in the movies than the game's fault. If the two of you walk dueled, without jumping or using any specials, THEN it's look more like the movies. Personally, I had missed the hype for this game and just stumbled onto it. I was totally amazed by the improvement it was over JK1.

Anyway, you can't expect a game to let you play duels just like out of the movies. You just don't have Force enhanced abilities or the years of training with the Lightsaber. The best you can hope for is something that grants you a level of control while siming the Force enhanced reflexes.


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Old 07-31-2002, 01:43 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
Well, JK2 doesn't play like the movies but it's pretty damn close. I think it's more a matter of people not trying to duel like in the movies than the game's fault. If the two of you walk dueled, without jumping or using any specials, THEN it's look more like the movies.
I just thought of something from what you said. It would be nice if there was a server for JKII where you had to walk and not run when deuling, and not jump around so much, for the people who enjoy fighting like the movies.


So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view.
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:00 AM   #54
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Actually.....

[Self Promo Mode]
I'm involved with a mod that's trying to make the game closer to the movie duels. Right now, stellarwind, figured out an awesome improvement that encourages walk dueling. What he did was make running (in the light and medium stance) two totally different dynamic stances. When running you swing one handed and your blocking ability and damage goes down. (Think Obi Wan charging Darth Maul) When you "walk" you move at a slower (faster than the default walk) duel speed and use a more traditional two handed styles. (Red is faster and more realistic than the normal "baseball" red swings.) So basically you trade speed and manuverability, as you want, for blocking and damage. In addition, ALL specials are totally manual and under going major rebalancing (We feel that specials are only for "special" occasions.) And finally, normal swings have more "feel" to them (they have a bit of momentum and kind of "stick" for a sec after you collide with another blade). Anyway, the Mod is called Jedi Style and I think it's the best Mod availible. It's worked out great so far.
[/Self Promo Mode]


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Old 07-31-2002, 02:26 AM   #55
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lol

The saber fighting in that trailer looks like the fighting in the old trilogy... while that were the best movies the saber fighting sucks compared to what we see in the new movies... and JK2 looks more like the new movies...

We will just have to put up with assfighters, dfa spammers, one move monkeys, bunny hoppers, roller rats, and of course the lamers... and then just enjoy those really cool fights we have once in a while with real saberists.

I play on Gamesdomains saber only servers and there are quite a few very nice saberists there whom I enjoy dueling... and I tell you those duels are great and they look awesome.

May the force be with you

Invictus


Edit: Just saw your post Razorrace ... sounds cool - I will have to check that out. I walk durring duels for better control, but mostly because it looks better

I just read the description... the only thing I will complain about is you removing the sideways kick... it is really useful for those fights where people gang up on you and will allow you to fight multiple opponents more easily.... a shame removing that, especially since I haven't seen it abused like the front kick is at times. Anyway I will go try the Jedi Styles now and see how it plays... then I'll write what I think.

Last edited by Canis_Aureus; 07-31-2002 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:18 AM   #56
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Thanks for the input, Canis_Aureus. I'll talk to Stellarwind about it. We haven't come up with a permanant solution for kicking yet so we'll see. By default, it's too risk-free to kick..... I'd like to keep kicking in, but we gotta make it easy to use AND realistically usable. You can't just expect to run up a fully alert person's face without them cutting you in half with the saber.

ANYWAY....back to the subject....


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Old 07-31-2002, 03:27 AM   #57
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Yes we have to stay on the subject... I will make a new thread where I post my oppinion about your mod
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Old 07-31-2002, 04:05 AM   #58
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razorace, you are correct that the trailer is more like the original movies...and I see how JKII has the energy of the new ones...so maybe if we could just combined them..haha

I guess I don't feel like i have that much control...even though you will think I am nuts...it is that I want to stab here...but what Kyle does is slash downward or something...it is frustrating. I am not going to sit here and say that I don't know how to kill someone, but the control on where I want to go isn't all there...it is there a little but not enough.

I guess that is just what I want to see..more control! haha

I don't think how any game will ever come close to what I want...
but I see your idea about walking and no jumping. maybe not "no jumping" but "no force jumping" Because you can hop over sabers just fine.

Maybe the saber action needs to be more flued and precises. I need to see each move..all i see when I fight Tavion is that she is twirling. I need to see that Kyle sees her slashing down so he blocks it...


And then there were was one...
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Old 07-31-2002, 05:14 AM   #59
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I can understand that. Actually I prefer Jedi Styles to SP now. SP goes at Episode I speeds which is simply too fast for a normal person to have much control over.

Like I said, try Jedi Styles. I don't know what Stellarwinds did but the saber fights are more procise and fluid. Normal MP feels like you're just swinging thru each other's blades in comparision.

I agree, that blade hopping would be very cool. And I think a controlled forward thrust could be very possible. I'll look into it.


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Old 07-31-2002, 01:45 PM   #60
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I was wondering if maybe that during KOTOR you will have both point and click and movement control. I say this because of what i have mentioned many times. The different parts of the trailer you see him fighting other people that are not saber baring and animals...so maybe you only do the sort of "point and click" battling with the head guys. and maybe the JKII version when battling with other people

JKII's saber control is not much different than from JKI just improved. The movement control is good. I guess thinking about it, it is just the types of swings and slashes that they assigned to each style that is what makes the sabering so slash and hack.

what are some other options that people see as maybe be a better saber control system?


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Old 07-31-2002, 02:50 PM   #61
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JK2's sabering not much different than JK1 ... HUH?!?!?!?! JK1's sabering was very limited, whereas JK2 has considerable control and chain attacks (admittedly, sometimes it is hard to control).

As for what could be better - the only thing I could think of is a two analog controller setup where you would move yourself and your view with one set of controls and the saber with the other ... but then that really needs 3 controllers, doesn't it ... I'm not really sure.

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Old 07-31-2002, 02:50 PM   #62
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Well how are they going to do point and click on the X-Box? It might be light Morrowind, which was an rpg, where you controlled your sword (or bow or whatever) with your mouse (Or x-box controller).
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Old 07-31-2002, 02:58 PM   #63
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I can't think of a better system at the moment but there's probably a better system just waiting to be discovered.

Yeah, manually controlling the blade could work but the trick is to make the control responsive and quick at the same time. Die by the Sword tried a system like that but you'd ether have quick control or precise control, but not both. I'm sure it possible but it would involve some heavily tweaked control zones (special acceleration zones and such) with the mouse and keyboard.


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Old 07-31-2002, 03:24 PM   #64
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I've never used an XBox, but how did the dual controller thing on ObiWan work? I know the game lacked quite a bit compared to JKII, and the Force power usage required extra appendages, but what about the sabering controls?

Mike
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Old 07-31-2002, 03:39 PM   #65
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Probably poorly, if Lucasarts pulled it from the PC because it would be up to "PC gaming standards", it probably just plain sucked.


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