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Old 08-12-2002, 12:27 AM   #1
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1.04 'Random Swinging"

Well to me it seems that 1.04 is all a bunch of random swinging... The only move that does any good damage is the Medium DFA. Anything else is you just hoping u land a hit while swinging wildy with hvy stance.


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Old 08-12-2002, 12:44 AM   #2
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RANDOM SWINGING MY BUTT.



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Old 08-12-2002, 02:44 AM   #3
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Well, I disagree with that in all but one thing.

The n00b light stance consistant swinging... it takes no skill, and unfornately in 1.4 it can be effective in the right hands. Now since I say right hands, doesn't mean it takes skill, it just takes general knowledge. Most people I've fought don't do this, because it's really stupid and pretty much shows the weakness of 1.4's combat system. But I've seen several good players bested by some good player just having fun "noobing" everyone and laughing his ass off.

The thing that makes this so easy to use is that there's no attack that can parry away his attacks fast enough before he gets hits in. Medium stance will parry a few attacks in blue, but most will just get thrown into a different attack swing from clashing with the other saber, so basically you MAY hit them but he'll probably get in a few hits on you since you leave yourself open. Heavy stance.. takes too long to wind up, guy could get in 3 or 4 good light n00b hits before your swing hits him. Don't get me wrong, n00bing isn't perfect, with practice anyone can kill someone using it... but it's stupid you should even train yourself to allow for such a defense.

Anyway, other than n00bing, I disagree that it's all random. Trust me, it takes very good planning (and ALOT of stance changes on the fly) to master sabering in NF (and i mean no force at all) duels. Practice makes perfect in 1.4 NF duel. In other gameplay types... well... DFAing everywhere in tight FFA quarters will get you a nice kill ratio...
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Old 08-12-2002, 03:28 AM   #4
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I'm not really sure why you say it doesnt take skill. Sure, it's easier to land a hit with blue style than with red or yellow. But isnt this the nature of the thing? It's very fast, so naturally it would be easier to hit, but it also doesnt do nearly the damage a red strike would do. It balances out.

If you stand there and try to toe it with someone in blue, you deserve to get cut down. Hit and run is the only effective way, it'll force them to change.

But it's not "n00b", as you so eloquantly call it. Just because it's an effective technique that can score hits well does not mean it takes no skill.
Quote:
Heavy stance.. takes too long to wind up, guy could get in 3 or 4 good light n00b hits before your swing hits him.
What, are you standing still or something? Run backwards while swinging heavy. If he's really spamming mindlessly, he'll keep comin at you, right into your heavy swing. Like I said, if you stand still against a blue and you're using red, you are gonna get ripped, pure and simple.

My god, why do people always have to have something to complain about? I can see the DFA whoring and the backstabbing. Those really took no skill. And now they're gone. But it's never been a secret that it's easier to hit with blue than the other two, or you can get hits in faster. If it was just as easy to hit with red or yellow as it was with blue, than why would anyone bother to use blue at all? "Oh, it's easier to hit, it's n00bish!" No, it balances out. It doesnt do much damage at all. (except for lunge)

Seriously, this is pretty sad.

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Old 08-12-2002, 03:56 AM   #5
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what would be less random to you? spamming specials and medium dfa like you're suggesting???
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Old 08-12-2002, 04:21 AM   #6
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Old 08-12-2002, 04:39 AM   #7
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Shock, I didn't ever say Blue stance is a n00b stance.

I said n00bing is what the spamming is called. It's not all attacks in blue, infact it's none of them.

N00bing a Lightsaber - Holding down attack and forward and not letting go of either until you or the other guy is dead. The guy will NOT stop running at you, he'll just do a forward+attack blue stance attack repeatedly, even standing still it'd eventually get through since it's so quick and it's the strongest attack of all blue normal swings.

I'm not saying it's impossible to defend against, hell with practice it's easy to defend against. But what I was saying, that 1.4 is sad in the fact that some people can get kills by ONLY doing this.

I was in NO way saying blue was a n00bish stance. Hell I use it all the time to counter, I use EVERY stance when fighting. That's the only way to master dueling. But n00bing has nothing to do with dueling, it has everything to do with pissing people off.

And for the record, I wasn't complaining. I was stating a wildly known fact (although apparently isn't that wildly known to you). So stop assuming so much, and read carefully.

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Old 08-12-2002, 05:04 AM   #8
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Thumbs up LOL

learn the game mate,

Comedian....

If anything 1.04 is harder than the previous incarnations, because hit detection is right,


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Old 08-12-2002, 06:17 AM   #9
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Spamming blue is not so effective that it is fatal not to do it. It is, in general, as effective as constantly triple and double swinging red. Maybe the damage of blue is slightly too high, but otherwise it is not unfair. By not counter-attacking directly into a spammer, facing him at all times (for blocking), and moving out the way he can be defeated.

Anyway, even Noobs should win occasionally.

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Old 08-12-2002, 09:53 AM   #10
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Some people will say anything to defend this crappy patch.

The fact is Blue stance noobs can defeat very good players by simply holding down attack and moving towards their opponent. Anyone can say what they want but we have all seen it happen many times. 1.04 does reward random swing far more then any of the previous patches.

Sorry to see you guys get flamed for speaking the truth.


By the way this is not a more difficult version. Defense in 1.04 is free to all, no action from the player is required to use it. In 1.03 you would get pulled down if not careful, in 1.02 you couldn't block everything so you had to move to defend. 1.04 if you stand still when in danger and run and get health when low, almost ANYONE can play a 30 min FFA saber only and not die ONCE.

The real reason people like 1.04 = lots of sparks flying everywhere.


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Old 08-12-2002, 10:00 AM   #11
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I honestly don't mean to be rude, but if any of you were good at saber battling at all... you wouldn't even be replying to this thread.
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Old 08-12-2002, 10:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Catch
I honestly don't mean to be rude, but if any of you were good at saber battling at all... you wouldn't even be replying to this thread.
Then why are you replying? I guess you are NOT "good at saber battling at all"


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Old 08-12-2002, 10:41 AM   #13
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I wasn't trying to offend, it sounds like you're a little pissy . Anyway, whatever, I guess I'm not good at saber battling according to you.
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Old 08-12-2002, 11:34 AM   #14
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I guess you guys need to learn the glory of the flip-kick. Stops blue spammers right in their tracks.

Anyway, Arceri, I dont really know how you meant for people to interpret your post, as it sounded a lot like complaining to me. Perhaps I'm so used to hearing it, everyones posts have sort of blurred together. I apoligize if I offended.

The fact remains, it's never been a secret that blue stance can land hits very quickly. But they're so weak, it really doesnt make much difference. If you have someone spamming blue in your face, give em a kick. At very at least, they'll be knocked back, and you'll be up and out of the way. That way, you can position yourself for the next time the spammer charges. And if they get knocked down, even better. Go for the lunge/ red downward chop.

I cant remember the last time a blue spammer has killed me, and if they did, it was when I did something dumb like try a red horizontal sweep while standing still right in front of them.

Quote:
Defense in 1.04 is free to all, no action from the player is required to use it. In 1.03 you would get pulled down if not careful, in 1.02 you couldn't block everything so you had to move to defend. 1.04 if you stand still when in danger and run and get health when low, almost ANYONE can play a 30 min FFA saber only and not die ONCE.
So you enjoy standing still and not attacking at all? Because thats what you have to do in 1.04 to never get hit. Yes, you can block a lot of attacks in the right stance, IF you do not attack yourself. But the moment you open up, if there's a sabre comin at you, you're gonna get hit.

Yes, you are very hard to kill in 1.04 while standing still in a corner. (NOT impossible) But are you getting anywhere? Are you making any kills? Doing anything for your team? Noooo... SO why bother?

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Old 08-12-2002, 11:44 AM   #15
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Randow swinging my ass, Im mainly a strong stance fighter, I dont have any problems beating blue-spammers. All it takes is timing. If you cant win in 1.04 you suck!


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Old 08-12-2002, 11:49 AM   #16
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Now let me shed some light on this subject, first of all, shock, you said for everyone to stop complaining about this.

I don't see what the difference is complaining about 'n00bing', and complaining about DFA whoring or backstab. First of all, DFA in 1.02 was the EASIEST to counter. I can't believe people complained about that. It's just that no one took the time to learn how to counter it, instead they decided to complain on here. Next, backstab. lol, backstab. I can't say much because I backstab myself, but hell, who cares, it got kills faster. In 1.02, that one move was not required at all, since a normal saber swing from heavy would destroy the backstabber. But instead of thinking about the moves and seeing why people were complaining about the, Raven decided to just, nerf them, and make battles more drawn out, to the point where a newbie, as in a new player, will get bored out of his mind seeing that he can't kill **** for 5 minutes. This is the truth. I've actually seen this in action, I've had 7 friend at an internet cafe, we were playing CS, then I was like, want to try JK2? They get all hyped up about using sabers, and then, when we're in the game, 10 minutes later they all said "this sucks" and left and went back to CS. That's why this game is losing its community. Old players who knew how to counter 1.02, and see how much more thrilling it was and faster it was have left, just check the ladders and see how significantly they've dropped in competitive players. Secondly, no new players are coming in, since the game is not very n00b friendly. What you have left in thsi community is a very large portion of 1.02 complainers who liked the game in 1.02 (that's why you kept playing it after you bought it) but just complained to get the game more in their favor, so they can kill more often (kind of pathetic if you ask me, but hey, everyone's entitled to their opinion.) Next you have a small portion of 1.02 players who stay on 1.02 servers, trying to hold onto the good thing that was JK2. Lastly you have the competitive players, whose sole purpose of playing JK2 is to be top of the ladders.

Raven pretty much weeded out almost half of their community with the patches of 1.02 - 1.03, and 1.03 - 1.04. They weeded out all they players who did not complain, but enjoyed the game at whichever state it was at. Instead, they kept the players who were ignorant to learning the game, and facing that this is the game they bought, and change would just make it worse.

Just my 2 cents..of course I will be flamed but eh, I'm used to it. I worked with Kal-El...lol


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Old 08-12-2002, 11:53 AM   #17
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Lol if you can't win in 1.04 you suck? Well if everyone didn't 'suck' then no one could win..so everyone would suck..but then..

lol, think about this 187, not everyone can win, everyone will lose from time to time, there will always be someone better. I guess the only way to prove how good you are is to go on a ranking. are you on any ladders? twl? ogl? I've never seen your name...


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Old 08-12-2002, 01:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShockV1.89

Yes, you are very hard to kill in 1.04 while standing still in a corner. (NOT impossible) But are you getting anywhere? Are you making any kills? Doing anything for your team? Noooo... SO why bother?

ShockV1.89
I never said it was impossible. And you ask about about what you do for your team? Easy.

Example one
You are in a Team FFA say most of your team gets wiped out and Respawn on the other side of the map. You back into a corner and survive long enugh for them to arrive and bail you out. You helped your team by surviving, and all it took was....nothing.

Example two
I was in a duel against a much better opponent, he kept getting behind me. So everytime he did, I stopped. Stopped doing anything. Out of 7 hit to my back I blocked 6. I won the duel because this technique gave me more lives then a cat.

Example three
Ever wonder why there are almost no CTF saber only anymore? Its because an 11 year grows a beard before you can kill a flag carrier that has anyone defending him at his base in 1.04 saber only.

Example Four
Ever see people fighting gunners with sabers in 1.04 server with default settings? Jedi might as well be swinging pillows they would stand about the same chance. Note: if you killed a noob with a gun this does not Qualify. I only speak of average to above average players.

That enough examples of how this silly blocking lends advantage where none is due?


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Old 08-12-2002, 11:27 PM   #19
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Shock I guess you haven't heard the term.

No force duels?

Kind of hard to flip kick someone when you have jump 1. I know alot of the servers allow kick for some retard reason. But I hate those servers, because it can and usually does result into a kicking contest. So I play on pure NF servers. THAT'S where n00bing is worse. Trust me, I know every counter for every move in this game. I wasn't COMPLAINING, I was stating fact. Your counter for n00bing works in certain situations but not all. There's more, but n00bing in complete nf duels is a problem sometimes, if anything it's annoying. I never said anything about nerfing blue stance, infact I think blue stance needs to be helped.

All I said was true, wasn't complaining, wasn't because I can't counter it, it all had to do with the true purpose of the post, which random swings of 1.4. And you can't get much more random than n00bing...

So there.
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Old 08-13-2002, 03:51 AM   #20
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Thats why I play on NF servers as well.

I'd rather deal with noobers than kick whores. From what I've seen you simply can not avoid kick whores in force duels. Then you are forced to kick them. which results in severe lameness.

I never have had a problem with noobers. They might get one lucky kill the first time cause it throws me off but they never win 2.

On a side note I get accused of newb spamming a lot. People can't tell the difference between an aggressive close up fighter and a noob.

They usually try to do a bad imitation of me by noobing, and after I stomp their **** in they usually still call me a spammer.
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Old 08-13-2002, 06:56 AM   #21
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If a player swings randomly then we should not be surprised if eventually he flukes a well timed swing, or sequence of swings. If the opponent happens not to be concentrating enough, the lucky sequence will cause major damage. The random swinger might even win, but we should expect this to be rare.

There is nothing inherently wrong with noobs beating good players by whatever method. It is wrong if they can do it more than rarely. I say they cannot.

I tested the randomness by spamming blue in nf and kick duel servers, I lost nearly all the time (especially to the odd kick) and won mainly with low hp, once (out of many losses) I won with max hp.

If I lost because I am pants at spamming blue then it is not random, for it admits of levels of skill (and is not really spam).


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Old 08-13-2002, 05:11 PM   #22
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Trolls anyone?
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Old 08-13-2002, 05:25 PM   #23
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I think Light Stance only seems more effective now because alot of people have immigrated to Heavy stance since 1.04. They practice dealing with the Windup delays between the start and finish of a swing... meanwhile they encounter people who hold their Primary fire down and "hope for the best".

The Light stance is a blender against Heavy users... they can get in 3-4 hits (20-30 damage) because of the huge gap pre-and post swing and retreat without even being singed.

So what I would do is use Medium stance since it's a solid 30 pts. per hit, has less windup and better recovery after a swing so you don't get hit after your offensive. Matching Light against Light is an OK thing to do I guess, but I wouldn't want to stray into the "light bashing" side myself. Medium Finisher is a pretty good move to counter them since alot of the spammers tend to run in straight lines, like the backstabbers did.


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