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Old 08-22-2002, 08:09 PM   #1
TK-Hamburglar
 
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Angry Does Gaming == Whiners?

I find it odd that seemingly every game that comes out someone in the gaming community makes it their own personal crusade to have the developers of the game remove a particular feature or function because they deem it an 'exploit' or 'bug'. Being a developer myself I find it extremely arrogant of some of these martyrs for basing their campaign around something that they may not necessarily have any insight into. Many times certain features or functions are put their for a reason. Ultimately, they are there because they are a part of someone's vision and/or artistry. Who are these people to assume they know better than the visionary? Would these same people dare, if they had the chance, to tell Michalangelo, DaVinchi, Gaugin, or Picasso that their visions are flawed because they know better than these masters? Granted, it may be a stretch calling a video game artistry, but it definatley cannot be discounted as something that takes extreme creativity. Thoughts?


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Old 08-22-2002, 08:12 PM   #2
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Yeah

You pretty much got it right except for the glowing saber bug, the crossbow bouncing off of stuff, and the new cogs that are out those were not meant to be and definently aren't art.
Unless you think someone was sick minded enough to have a vision of a glowing dildo and call it art.
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Old 08-22-2002, 08:12 PM   #3
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I agree 100%.......

THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE A.SSHATS AND DESERVE A SEVERE AXE BEATING.


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Old 08-22-2002, 08:56 PM   #4
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While you're probably sick of hearing about whiners, it is crucial that you read this letter. Before I start, however, I should state that to understand what whiners's particularly self-serving form of negativism has encompassed as a movement and as a system of rule, we have to look at its historical context and development as a form of ****y politics that first arose in early twentieth-century Europe in response to rapid social upheaval, the devastation of World War I, and the Bolshevik Revolution. Ask yourself: Why does whiners insist on boring holes in the hull of the boat in which it is also a passenger? I bet you'll answer the same way that I did, because we both know that prudence is no vice. Cowardice -- especially whiners's foolish form of it -- is. Whiners is undoubtedly possessed by the devil. And that's where we are right now. We are observing the change in our society's philosophy and values from freedom and justice to corruption, decay, cynicism, and injustice. All of these "values" are artistically incorporated in one person: whiners.

I heard through the grapevine that solipsism represents a dastardly form of divide-and-conquer. Whether or not this rumor is true, the same pattern of guilt-by-association practiced by its bootlickers can be found in its whinges. Excuse me; that's not entirely correct. What I meant to say is that whiners wants nothing less than to deface property with racially and sexually derogatory epithets and offensive symbols, hence its repeated, almost hypnotic, insistence on the importance of its crude, gloomy anecdotes. Whiners's intolerance for those assumed to hold different value systems from its is so great, so mentally debilitating, so handicapping to its thought processes that I've heard of anti-democratic things like stoicism and cannibalism. But I've also heard of things like nonviolence, higher moralities, and treating all beings as ends in and of themselves -- ideas which its ignorant, unthinking, destructive brain is too small to understand. To sum it all up, only gutless, moonstruck converts to Fabianism ever contend that whiners's plans for the future are "grandly compelling", "articulate and persuasive", or "a vital contribution".


Without fear, there is no courage
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
This would be really funny if it weren't happening to me.
In the land of California, in the heat of San Jose the dark haired PSIONIC JEDI forged in secret a master computer to control all others and into this computer he poured his money, his computer parts and many screws
One computer to rule them all. One computer to find the foes
One computer to bring them all to hell and in the darkness conquer
In the online gaming world where the envying ones lie.
-Original dito119
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Psionic Jedi
While you're probably sick of hearing about whiners, it is crucial that you read this letter. Before I start, however, I should state that to understand what whiners's particularly self-serving form of negativism has encompassed as a movement and as a system of rule, we have to look at its historical context and development as a form of ****y politics that first arose in early twentieth-century Europe in response to rapid social upheaval, the devastation of World War I, and the Bolshevik Revolution. Ask yourself: Why does whiners insist on boring holes in the hull of the boat in which it is also a passenger? I bet you'll answer the same way that I did, because we both know that prudence is no vice. Cowardice -- especially whiners's foolish form of it -- is. Whiners is undoubtedly possessed by the devil. And that's where we are right now. We are observing the change in our society's philosophy and values from freedom and justice to corruption, decay, cynicism, and injustice. All of these "values" are artistically incorporated in one person: whiners.

I heard through the grapevine that solipsism represents a dastardly form of divide-and-conquer. Whether or not this rumor is true, the same pattern of guilt-by-association practiced by its bootlickers can be found in its whinges. Excuse me; that's not entirely correct. What I meant to say is that whiners wants nothing less than to deface property with racially and sexually derogatory epithets and offensive symbols, hence its repeated, almost hypnotic, insistence on the importance of its crude, gloomy anecdotes. Whiners's intolerance for those assumed to hold different value systems from its is so great, so mentally debilitating, so handicapping to its thought processes that I've heard of anti-democratic things like stoicism and cannibalism. But I've also heard of things like nonviolence, higher moralities, and treating all beings as ends in and of themselves -- ideas which its ignorant, unthinking, destructive brain is too small to understand. To sum it all up, only gutless, moonstruck converts to Fabianism ever contend that whiners's plans for the future are "grandly compelling", "articulate and persuasive", or "a vital contribution".
I think I read that written on a wall above a toilet in a topless bar one time...
J/K


Yeah, lots of people have their own vision of what should and should not be.

That said, community feedback is helpful to eliminate bugs and tweak things developers don't find though.

The ironic thing is, if you don't listen to the people playing your mod/game/map, they will stop playing it.

Ultimately, you have to decide, do I want it popular or do I want it the way I first envisioned it?
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:10 PM   #6
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It's just this new policy: Let noobs decide the gameplay of games. Games like q2 (just think of the trickjumps) and jk were great fun to play and addictive. I still play q2 sometimes and even quake. Why? Cause the pros (devs) decided the game's fate and not noobs.


Gnaa!
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by InfErnO
It's just this new policy: Let noobs decide the gameplay of games. Games like q2 (just think of the trickjumps) and jk were great fun to play and addictive. I still play q2 sometimes and even quake. Why? Cause the pros (devs) decided the game's fate and not noobs.
I AGREE.
EVERYONE ELSE IS AN A.SSHAT.


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Old 08-22-2002, 09:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Ultimately, you have to decide, do I want it popular or do I want it the way I first envisioned it?
How about the game players view
1. Do I want it changed, because I suck at it?
2. Do I want to learn how to play and adapt to the things I don't like?

If you chose the first one you should know why you're a newb
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:38 PM   #9
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What's an A.SSHAT ?

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Old 08-22-2002, 09:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
What's an A.SSHAT ?

ShockV1.89
I feel that it is my duty to inculcate in the reader an inquisitive spirit and a skepticism about beliefs that the A.SSHATs's cringers take for granted. Some background is in order: At no time in the past did the most self-indulgent amnesiacs I've ever seen shamble through the streets of cities, demanding rights they imagine some supernatural power has bestowed upon them. Stick your nose into anything the A.SSHATs has written recently, and you'll get a good whiff of churlish, execrable revanchism. You may not be aware of this, but the A.SSHATs's hypocrisy is transparent. Even the least discerning among us can see right through it. While everybody believes in something, the A.SSHATs's simple faith in vigilantism will undoubtedly enact new laws forcing anyone who's not one of the A.SSHATs's factotums to live in an environment that can, at best, be described as contemptuously tolerant. While criticizing its opponents for enforcing a ribald orthodoxy, the A.SSHATs itself is trying to enforce a particular orthodoxy -- the orthodoxy of reprehensible interdenominationalism. In a matter of days, the A.SSHATs will turn its back on those who need it the most. It will almost certainly tiptoe around that glaringly evident fact, because if it didn't, you might come to realize that my dream is for tired eyes to open and see clearly, broken spirits to find new energy, and weary arms to find the strength to call your attention to the problem of bookish scatterbrains. The A.SSHATs frequently avers its support of democracy and its love of freedom. But one need only look at what the A.SSHATs is doing -- as opposed to what it is saying -- to understand its true aims. Let me close where I began: The hostility and boredom the A.SSHATs is experiencing internally is quite evident externally.


Without fear, there is no courage
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
This would be really funny if it weren't happening to me.
In the land of California, in the heat of San Jose the dark haired PSIONIC JEDI forged in secret a master computer to control all others and into this computer he poured his money, his computer parts and many screws
One computer to rule them all. One computer to find the foes
One computer to bring them all to hell and in the darkness conquer
In the online gaming world where the envying ones lie.
-Original dito119
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Old 08-22-2002, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
I feel that it is my duty to inculcate in the reader an inquisitive spirit and a skepticism about beliefs that the A.SSHATs's cringers take for granted. Some background is in order: At no time in the past did the most self-indulgent amnesiacs I've ever seen shamble through the streets of cities, demanding rights they imagine some supernatural power has bestowed upon them. Stick your nose into anything the A.SSHATs has written recently, and you'll get a good whiff of churlish, execrable revanchism. You may not be aware of this, but the A.SSHATs's hypocrisy is transparent. Even the least discerning among us can see right through it. While everybody believes in something, the A.SSHATs's simple faith in vigilantism will undoubtedly enact new laws forcing anyone who's not one of the A.SSHATs's factotums to live in an environment that can, at best, be described as contemptuously tolerant. While criticizing its opponents for enforcing a ribald orthodoxy, the A.SSHATs itself is trying to enforce a particular orthodoxy -- the orthodoxy of reprehensible interdenominationalism. In a matter of days, the A.SSHATs will turn its back on those who need it the most. It will almost certainly tiptoe around that glaringly evident fact, because if it didn't, you might come to realize that my dream is for tired eyes to open and see clearly, broken spirits to find new energy, and weary arms to find the strength to call your attention to the problem of bookish scatterbrains. The A.SSHATs frequently avers its support of democracy and its love of freedom. But one need only look at what the A.SSHATs is doing -- as opposed to what it is saying -- to understand its true aims. Let me close where I began: The hostility and boredom the A.SSHATs is experiencing internally is quite evident externally.
I feel that it is my duty to tell you to stfu before I waste a minute reading more than the first sentence of your post.
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Old 08-23-2002, 12:23 PM   #12
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Re: Does Gaming == Whiners?

Quote:
Originally posted by TK-Hamburglar
...
Granted, it may be a stretch calling a video game artistry, but it definatley cannot be discounted as something that takes extreme creativity. Thoughts?
Being a programmer too, I would have to say that any kind of programming is an art. Programming is a type of creativity.. any kind of creativity is an art IMHO.

problem is, everyone is a critic.

solution.. only the programmer gets to make what changes he/she wants or none at all. Thats the good thing

Wow.. so that makes two programmers in TK that I know of..

I hope you dont work for apple too !

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Old 08-23-2002, 12:52 PM   #13
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Re: Re: Does Gaming == Whiners?

Quote:
Originally posted by BF_Hoby
I hope you dont work for apple too !
Haha. No, I am not a disciple of Steve Jobs. I work for a Tier 1 IBM business partner doing just about any type of programming that you can think of. We are small, so there is a great deal of opportunity to do and learn new things. Very fun place to work and keeps my chops up.


Robble Rooble, n00b!
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Old 08-23-2002, 01:35 PM   #14
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Unhappy Rain on your parade

I have nothing but love for you programmer guys but you missed one crucial point in comparing yourselves to "Michalangelo, DaVinchi, Gaugin, or Picasso"

You see while the creations of programmers no doubt require the same imagination and creativity that may have inspired the greats (be it genius or really good shrooms) the difference is they did it for the art, and programmers do it for the dollar.

The greats were free to piss everyone off (most of them did) and they could tell the world and its small minded critics to shove it. Most of the greats died poor and were only appreciated fully after they died.

You programmers have no such desire nor ability to duplicate this brash uncompromising behavior. You may think you want to tell the critics (whiners) to shove it, but if it cost you a paycheck you'd be shooting out appeasing patches faster then Ashcroft can come up with new ways to circumvent the bill of rights.

Face facts my friends, a true artist is a slave to his imagination and nothing else. You however are slaves to the all mighty dollar and your master is in the hands of whiners that can't wait to find everything they think you did wrong and call you inept morons.

Kind of sh!tty when you think about.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 08-23-2002, 03:07 PM   #15
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Re: Re: Does Gaming == Whiners?

Quote:
Originally posted by BF_Hoby


Being a programmer too, I would have to say that any kind of programming is an art. Programming is a type of creativity.. any kind of creativity is an art IMHO.

problem is, everyone is a critic.

solution.. only the programmer gets to make what changes he/she wants or none at all. Thats the good thing

Wow.. so that makes two programmers in TK that I know of..

I hope you dont work for apple too !

i couldn't say that better myself

[humor note]
u almost got me whining
[/humor note]



+[size=0.5]http://kstar.deviantart.com[/size]
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Old 08-24-2002, 04:26 AM   #16
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Fatal, please stop talking before you make yourself sound more ridiculous than you already have.

I'm a programmer and I don't have a job; does that mean that I'd only write something if I were being paid to do it?

No, I'm a programmer because I like creating things and sharing them with others who need it. I spent the time learning how to do it and I practice it. Making money from it is just a perk - we all have to earn a living, why not make one doing something you like and are good at.

And as for the Renaissance artists of the past - same thing applies; they liked practicing their art and earning a living from it.
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Old 08-24-2002, 05:31 AM   #17
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u guys are all dorks!!! =D jk. me? i'm a college student at vanderbilt university ranked like 21 i think in the nation so i'm a dork too. DORK ALLIANCE GOGO NEW CLAN -[DA]- GOGO ... insomnia sucks just in case any of you were wondering...


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Old 08-24-2002, 10:18 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by [JHQ]Inty
Fatal, please stop talking before you make yourself sound more ridiculous than you already have.
I'm sure you mean stop typing or posting as I don't speak to the screen while I type these happy little posts of mine.

Maybe you are right though I should stop, I mean I wouldn't want to look as ridiculous as a angry little programmer that thinks he's on par with "Michalangelo, DaVinchi, Gaugin, or Picasso"


Quote:
Originally posted by [JHQ]Inty

I'm a programmer and I don't have a job; does that mean that I'd only write something if I were being paid to do it?
Programmers do there best when they have the funding to be able to do so, thus not at home unemployed. Besides Mr. Broke jobless programmer what exactly have you created that I can compare to the great artist of the past. I'd be glad to see it.


Quote:
Originally posted by [JHQ]Inty
No, I'm a programmer because I like creating things and sharing them with others who need it. I spent the time learning how to do it and I practice it. Making money from it is just a perk - we all have to earn a living, why not make one doing something you like and are good at.
LoL whatever friend. Look you want me to take this thread seriously why not show me something that comes close to as revolutionary and wildly admired as the work of previously mentioned artists.

The works of these artist don't get outdated, they are stand alone classics that thru hundreds of years only seem to get better. Please point out the program that fits that discription.



Quote:
Originally posted by [JHQ]Inty
And as for the Renaissance artists of the past - same thing applies; they liked practicing their art and earning a living from it.
You know nothing you small minded fool. These artists cared nothing of earning a living form their work. Many died poor and alone. They sacraficed for their work.

Programmers are artists in the way they use their creativity. However programmers have not yet reached a level where they can shed new light on our world thru their vision that lasts hundreds of years untouched.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 08-24-2002, 10:23 AM   #19
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Re: Does Gaming == Whiners?

Quote:
Originally posted by TK-Hamburglar
I find it odd that seemingly every game that comes out someone in the gaming community makes it their own personal crusade to have the developers of the game remove a particular feature or function because they deem it an 'exploit' or 'bug'. Being a developer myself I find it extremely arrogant of some of these martyrs for basing their campaign around something that they may not necessarily have any insight into. Many times certain features or functions are put their for a reason. Ultimately, they are there because they are a part of someone's vision and/or artistry. Who are these people to assume they know better than the visionary? Would these same people dare, if they had the chance, to tell Michalangelo, DaVinchi, Gaugin, or Picasso that their visions are flawed because they know better than these masters? Granted, it may be a stretch calling a video game artistry, but it definatley cannot be discounted as something that takes extreme creativity. Thoughts?
I Agree With All of this.


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Old 08-24-2002, 01:45 PM   #20
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lets stay on topic here.

Why do you keep saying that programmers see themselves on the level with Renaissance painters. Did I say that...No. You keep saying that because that's the only argument you seem to come up with.

Let me summarize my last post so that you can understand it: I said programmers are not capitalists, we do what we do because we like it and are good at it. PERIOD.
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Old 08-24-2002, 01:50 PM   #21
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Re: lets stay on topic here.

Quote:
Originally posted by [JHQ]Inty

Let me summarize my last post so that you can understand it: I said programmers are not capitalists, we do what we do because we like it and are good at it. PERIOD.
Oh? I didn't realize programmers were communists. Die Pinko slime!!


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 08-25-2002, 07:16 PM   #22
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Hey!

Quote:
Oh? I didn't realize programmers were communists. Die Pinko slime!!
Dont say nasty things about communists
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Old 08-25-2002, 09:48 PM   #23
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I"m going into programming, and I must say that if I was to be a game developer...I would in no way nerf something because someone has a hard time doing something when it's easily avoidable. Like....


If I worked for Raven, would I nerf lunge because someone keeps spaming DFA over and over and over, and the other person side-steps 2 feet and lunges them in the side?

Well, no. If that person spammin...okay, I'll say it, if that n00b would learn to stop spamming DFA over and over, and whining about him never getting kills, perhaps he wouldn't get killed so easily.

Personally? I'd look into adding someone for balance first before even thinking of taking away something. (nerfing).

I say, it's far better to balance a game by adding, than subtracting. When you are subtracting, you are taking away what the customers bought, decreasing what they bought, and I think that's wrong.

Example....let's say people started complaining about people using anything but a shotgun in Quake III Arena. I decided to remove all the weapons except for the shotgun for "balances sake". Do the customers deserve a refund? YES, you totally changed the product, and turned what they bought into something else BIG time. They bought the game for fast shoot 'em up deathmatch. It's not right to change that after they paid for it without them knowing what would happen.

Right now, I'm tired, and trying to say something. I have NO IDEA if it will come across correctly, so, I hoe for the best.


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