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Old 09-15-2002, 10:44 PM   #1
Dunpeel
 
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Reason why JK2 Community is dying..

Simple. Raven doesn't know how to patch games. After every patch, a big chunk of the players left because the game was altered waaay too much.

All they did was respond to the newbies who die too fast. It's all because of the success of counterstrike which is very newbie friendly and attracted a large number of people. It's the only FPS game that u can not move and spam and skill kill people. It's purely made for morons that have no gaming experience and just plain suck at games.

Course everyone who complained about all these moves that were patched were all newbies that did not know how to dodge or counter anything. Hell, i'm willing to bet some of these whiners are keyboard cowboys.

Raven only cares about profit and they see that profit is targetting mass market, which means they want even the dumbest of people be able to play the game. So any whining about anything that makes them die to fast will be patched.
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:15 AM   #2
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Raven only cares about profit and they see that profit is targetting mass market,
What'd you expect, a charity?


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Old 09-16-2002, 01:28 AM   #3
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Counterstrike may once have been newbie friendly, but because there's so many people playing now who have been playing for so long, it would be very hard for a 'newbie' since they would have not a clue compared to the others.

Anyway, the JK2 patches changed a few things, but not all that much. The core gameplay is still the same - it's really only 'practically uncounterable' moves (note: I didn't say completely uncounterable) like a DFA that changes direction in mid-air and the pull-backstab combo thing that have been toned down.

Obviously it's not perfect, but I don't think you can simply attribute it to be Raven being newbie-friendly. Enough people complained from all sides of the JK2 Community about things that needed to be included in patches, and I think Raven has tried to accomodate as many people as possible.

And enough with the JK2 is dying thing. It's still selling. People are still playing. Obviously it's not the behemoth that Counterstrike is, but get over it.
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Old 09-16-2002, 02:00 AM   #4
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a newbie can kill a better player more easier with a backstab then with his saber skill. so what is more newbie friendly?

hope my english isnt to bad


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Old 09-16-2002, 08:03 AM   #5
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You can play 1.02, 1.03 or 1.04, or 1.04 with promod (no problem finding servers running promod). You have at least three choices, actually more with the plethora of mods that are available.

Stop whining about Raven's patches.

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Old 09-16-2002, 10:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nibb
a newbie can kill a better player more easier with a backstab then with his saber skill. so what is more newbie friendly?

hope my english isnt to bad
What version are you playing? In 1.03, this is so, but not in 1.04....

Your english is fine.


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Old 09-16-2002, 12:09 PM   #7
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well i think jk2 right now is pretty good to be honest, at first there was a big degree of random sabre movement where it was harder to control, but now they have listend to the real players and the noobies and tried to make a game sort of in the middle, the game still has to be played with a degree of skill as well as it being pretty easy to pick up for new players, same as the guy said with counter strike, im sure a newbie can pick it up quickly but they would have no chance against a vet cs player, where as a newbie in jk2 would be able to pick up the moves quickly, he would have no chance against an experianced dueler, if u manage to get killed by a newbie doing a special move then thats only ur fault for puting ur self in the position to be "special moved" on, i try my best never to do this an thus the noobie doesnt get me
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:39 PM   #8
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I used to feel the same as Dunpeel, i completely hated both patches and felt they ruined the game, even stopped playing for awhile because of it. But i've gotten over that now, with all the great mods being released the game is definetly fun to play again and it will only get better.
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:40 PM   #9
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And enough with the JK2 is dying thing. It's still selling. People are still playing. Obviously it's not the behemoth that Counterstrike is, but get over it.
I couldn't agree more. If anybody is unsatisfied with the (read: Saber Dueling Gameplay) Gameplay, try using one of the many mods that people have spent countless hours creating. Or if that's not your bag, make your own. Simple!

Or find another game more to your liking and quit whining. ; )
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Old 09-16-2002, 02:32 PM   #10
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Stop whining, if you dont like the game play something else. I still love the game and play it every day.


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Old 09-16-2002, 03:22 PM   #11
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many people just play the new games that come out anyway. If they want to leave the community theres nothing to stop them. Im sure JK2 will end up like JK did, the same 200 people playing on the Zone everyday

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Old 09-16-2002, 07:44 PM   #12
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I welcome a noob filled server because I'm lazy and, well; noobs are just easier to kill.


Noob you are. Die you will.
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Old 09-16-2002, 08:33 PM   #13
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K, seriously, can we make a sticky with this in it?


"Raven can only do what the people want, if the people complain about backstabs, it will get changed. There are plenty of mods that are better than the current 1.04, like promod or jedimod, when there are no servers left the game is dead, please stop making these topics"
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Old 09-16-2002, 11:05 PM   #14
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First of all, veterans would not have been hit with the 1.02 DFA. If ANY you guys are complaining about that move, you guys are the definately noobs and most likely contributed to the nerfing of the game. You can EASILY dodge the 1.02 DFA with side rolls...which i doubt takes much skill unless you guys are handicapped.

The nerfing of the forces and various other things were just terrible. And honestly, the damage setting was perfect originally (maybe blue should have been tweaked up slightly) since this is a LIGHT saber not a butter knife.

A good game should not require custom mods to fix the problems that the original game had.

If you lamers prefer 15 mins to kill a player and constitute that as "fun" and "skilled", i have nothing to say to your noobs.
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Old 09-16-2002, 11:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dunpeel
First of all, veterans would not have been hit with the 1.02 DFA. If ANY you guys are complaining about that move, you guys are the definately noobs and most likely contributed to the nerfing of the game. You can EASILY dodge the 1.02 DFA with side rolls...which i doubt takes much skill unless you guys are handicapped.

The nerfing of the forces and various other things were just terrible. And honestly, the damage setting was perfect originally (maybe blue should have been tweaked up slightly) since this is a LIGHT saber not a butter knife.

A good game should not require custom mods to fix the problems that the original game had.

If you lamers prefer 15 mins to kill a player and constitute that as "fun" and "skilled", i have nothing to say to your noobs.
Your post really toes the line between a differing opinion and flat out flaming. Be warned, flaming is not appreciated here, and the admins are very active. You're new here, so I'm just letting you know, that sort of thing is not tolerated around here. (not that I have any power over you).


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Old 09-17-2002, 02:30 AM   #16
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I hate JO even more every time a patch is released... i havnt played MP for 2 months and the reason is becuse of the 1.04... i liked JO how it was in the Beginning, nows it just keeps changing for the newbies.

note: i have NOTHING aginst newbies, but rather then have a game change for you, try changing for the game.




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Old 09-17-2002, 02:50 AM   #17
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And as everyone who actually has some memory of how it all happened keeps saying: it changed because lots of people from all sides of the JK2 community complained and asked for it to be changed. Newbies don't know enough to petition Raven to change things - they just play and stumble their way through it. It was the 'veteran' community who complained. Well, as much as anyone could be considered a veteran in the, oh - what was it, 1 or 2 months between initial release and the 1.03 patch - hardly enough time to make anyone a 'veteran'.

It's still a good game, even if it's not what absolutely everyone wants or likes.

Don't have a whine; have a beer and chill out.
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Old 09-17-2002, 03:13 AM   #18
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Honestly, I think bitter and poor attitudes on the part of some (a lot actually) players is what is driving people away from this game.

Hell, the other night I spent almost an hour and a half teaching "newbies" how to Full Force duel. I could have been a prick and "owned" (I hate that term btw) them but what would that have done?
I frustrated someone new into quitting the game?
I make a medium level player give up and go play something else?

The reason this community has dropped has a lot to do with the patches, I agree, but to keep it from getting any smaller we need to start acting like a "community" and not a bunch of "Counter-Strike I am 13373R than yOu aR3" type idiots.

I hated both patches, they were stupid and the game itself is not as cool as it was, but I still like the game, I like the Star Wars franchise, and I respect the players that I face. So what if they are not as good? As long as we both have fun who cares.


The game still sells well, so that in turn means a steady stream of new players.

But it is up to those already here not to make the new players first experiences so poor that they quit before ever really getting involved in the game.
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Old 09-17-2002, 07:35 PM   #19
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Well well! Thank goodness more people are starting to say what I've been saying all along: Stop whining about the game, and play it. Or if you don't like it, don't play it, it's up to you.

1.04 IMO was a ressurection for the skill-based game which was 1.02. 1.03's many MANY flaws are now gone. I couldn't be happier. And it also appears that more servers are springing up, guns servers, sabres servers, Force servers, NF servers... so the dry period the game went through a fortnight ago was little more than a blip. Hooray for JO, and hooray for 1.04, and frankly, hooray for Raven for having the courage to release 1.04 in the first place.


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Old 09-17-2002, 08:57 PM   #20
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they just need to help out the editing community more
we need the ability to edit the SP code and add or alter animations.

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Old 09-18-2002, 03:58 AM   #21
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Hey no one is forcing you guys to play 1.04 version. I agree that the saber has been nerfed too much, but it still doesn't kill the game. And in a NF sabers only duel it allows you to play longer. Beside I use guns alot in CTF games and use the saber as a defence.

And if any of you complain about things being changed in a game I would hate to see if you were in the army. I an just see it now
"*whiny voice*Sadam Husain used a proto type weapon on the army and changed combat. He changed combat too much. He nerfed guns so they look like forks and spoons. I QUIT."


Just because I don't know something doesn't mean I'm stupid. It means you failed to tell me.
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Old 09-18-2002, 04:26 AM   #22
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"*whiny voice*Sadam Husain used a proto type weapon on the army and changed combat. He changed combat too much. He nerfed guns so they look like forks and spoons. I QUIT."
lmao!

ph4g! you cant do that, sadam?!?!?! y00 ch34t3r!!! l4m3r!!!
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Old 09-18-2002, 11:40 AM   #23
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http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

Not even in the top 10 anymore, so sad. But when can you expect from a game that's butchered every patch. Any time a patch alters gameplay that much you will lose a lot of players.
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Old 09-18-2002, 11:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShockV1.89


Your post really toes the line between a differing opinion and flat out flaming. Be warned, flaming is not appreciated here, and the admins are very active. You're new here, so I'm just letting you know, that sort of thing is not tolerated around here. (not that I have any power over you).
I'm pretty sure i played against Dunpeel a few times in 1.02, think it was on the Darkside servers. If it was him i'm thinking of he is a damn good player but was very obnoxious just like he is acting here, so this kind of behaviour is probably the norm for him.
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Old 09-18-2002, 12:15 PM   #25
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I posted this on the other "Is JKO Dying?" thread and thought I would post it here as it references a lot of what has already been said, and also addresses things that haven't been said as well.

In short, the main thing that is "killing" JKO besides Raven's inability to properly finish/tweak the game is...

The game has no depth because it is geared toward the same old DM, TDM, Dueling and has a very poor CTF model and that gets awfully boring after about 20 minutes even with the SW characters. Add Raven's continual nerfing of the game which turns it into a one-stance/skill spam game (red stance) and this all adds up to a very boring and shallow experience.

And when a game lacks depth and skill it loses players. Period.

Even with the addition of Promod and the fifty billion Mods out there (that really don't do anything to create a new game type) it's still the same old DM, Dueling, TDM and badly implemented CTF.

What JKO needs in terms of its Mods is its version of Counter-Strike.

Not the game itself of course, but a total conversion that deviates from the standard DM, CTF, TDM and Dueling which is primarily what JKO is geared toward... But COULD be doing so much more with the team aspects of the SW considering the characters that inhabit it (Bounty Hunters, Gangsters, Jedis, Sith, Imperials, Trade Federation, etc.).

Even though in practice, CS people run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to be Rambo and get the most kills per round, the core concept took the tired old game types of DM and TDM and turned it into something completely different based on the games original engine.

That's the kind of Mod JKO is desperately in need of right now.

Not the seemingly infinite window dressing Mods that are currently out there (and coming ).

There is an upcoming class-based, objective Mod that is in the works. Basically, a JKO Team Fortess Mod.

And while it focuses on specific classes with specific abilities, what would be even better is if evolved into a less class based system so that team members could just be autonomous units (Bounty Hunters, Jedi, Sith, etc) and be equally matched if within their class if they wanted -- Kind of like CS -- So that if you are more into the Rambo type of gameplay, but want a more structured and objective based type of game other than CTF that would suit you just fine.

I mean, this is just merely a throw-away-suggestion since the Mod isn't even out yet... But it is thinking like this that the JKO Community needs to start thinking about if they want the game to continue to thrive and not just be a game that only a thousand or so people play.

I understand the goal is not to top other games in terms of players. That would be silly. But if you have a unique game type (Mod) that springs from an already popular game then chances are more people WILL play it, thus giving the game extended life for veteran players and newbies alike.

I agree that Raven needs to HELP the Mod Community more than they have as well. No question.

The other factor I wanted to touch on the very thing that Homosexual Ewok brought up and that is the attitudes of the players playing JKO and how the way they treat newbies is often the main thing that drives away potential players who would have normally stayed and become part of the community.

A lot of us who play online games are NOT within the target demographic that originally was intended for the game... Even with the SW fanbase being so diverse.

Most games are aimed at the 13-25 year old age brackets. That's just fact.

But ironically, guess who is mostly playing online games?

People like myself who are in their late 20s and older (all the way up to 50s).

I'm bringing this up because obviously older players like myself are going to want somethnig different out of the games they play than someone younger than us.

Going back to what I said earlier about new game types other than DM, TDM, Dueling and CTF, I know for a fact that as I get older, I do want more team-oriented games and games that require using your wits as well as your weapons. JKO is just a "red-stance" spam fest thanks to Raven and to me, is very boring which is I think why I mainly stopped playing.

You can call me a Noob or unskilled lamer all you want, but the stats speak the truth since a lot of players are leaving the game and no new ones arriving (on average).

In addition, DM, TDM (guns or sabers or both) is also very boring for someone like me because as you get older you DO lose some of your reflexes -- And more importantly, time to practice your moves as older players are holding full-time jobs, families and other real world, adult responsibilities versus the 13 year old who runs home from school and spends 5 hours a night honing their Blue Lunge attack because they don't have to worry about paying the rent, putting food on the table, etc.

I'm not trying to stereotype anyone with these facts. I'm just stating the reality of the world outside online gaming.

The other factor about age and people playing the game is that the attitudes of younger players is 9 times out of 10 more geared toward competition and "owing" people to give themselves an ego boost whereas the older crowds are more toward "owing" people... But also RESPECTING them as well and just making sure everyone is having a good time because of their... Maturity.

I realize I making broad generalizations and there are of course exceptions to every rule, but I think it is fair to say what I stated above is accurate as it pertains to online gaming in general. At least, it has been my personal experience, anyway.

Unfortunately, a lot of the younger and immature players (regardless of age) are the ones the new players meet first. The new players then get discouraged or pissed and decide the game isn't worth their time and leave. The sad part about all of this is that they weren't given the chance to even see if JKO is something they would like to be a part of, let alone be good at if given the time to develop their skills.

So. There are a lot of things to consider here and I hope everyone takes the time to do so as JKO may not be "dying" in the strictest sense, but somethnig major is going to have to happen for it to be a game of any substance and staying power.

It's at a crucial time right now -- whether those of you want to admit it or not -- And it desperately is in need of something if it wants to remain a widely played game.
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Old 09-18-2002, 08:45 PM   #26
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the main thing that is "killing" JKO besides Raven's inability to properly finish/tweak the game is...
The game is perfectly acceptable as it is. 1.02 was superior to 1.04... POSSIBLY, but the fact remains that 1.04 is fairly bugless, easily playable and it's quite easy to dispatch other players with the whole range of weaponry.

Quote:
The game has no depth because it is geared toward the same old DM, TDM, Dueling and has a very poor CTF model and that gets awfully boring after about 20 minutes even with the SW characters.
The game is the game. The game has more depth than Quake 3, but what more can you ask than that? Sounds to me like you wanted Star Wars Galaxies, not Jedi Outcast. Those of us who played JK1 in the olden days appreciate the subtle differences between Jedi Outcast and the rest of the FPS gaming crop. JO is superior for those who can appreciate its advantages. For those who can't, there are other games.

Quote:
Add Raven's continual nerfing of the game which turns it into a one-stance/skill spam game (red stance) and this all adds up to a very boring and shallow experience.
In case you've forgotten, people... REAMS of people were whining and venting bile about how "Red stance is too powerf0l!!!111" back when 1.02 was the default. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. Show me a Jedi who can't change his stances, and I'll show you a grease stain on the floor.

Quote:
when a game lacks depth and skill it loses players.
The game doesn't lack skill. At the beginning, there were a select few who could always triumph. Now, there are a select few who can always triumph. This is because they have innate skill, and have practiced to hone their skill. There is skill in spreading butter on toast. There is skill involved in the most mundane of actions. The question isn't whether the game contains some sort of magic elixir to allow people to develop skills, the question is who is willing to PRACTICE to develop skills. Most people who play Jedi Outcast play it because they want to bibble about waving their sabres and doing their own thing. They like the IDEA of JO.

I on the other hand, and others like me, like JO ITSELF. This means we become better at it than other people, who immediately accuse us of being "Ch33ting sp@mming hax0r aimb0t0rz!!!11" or something like that.

We like the game. They want to BE Jedi. That's why there are less people playing the game now than there were: Serious gamers have gone back to Quake 3 and UT because that's where the big contests are... And SW fanboy hobbyists have given up playing because they aren't willing to gain the skill to survive... yet they hate losing. That's why.

But the game is far from dead. People like me, who enjoy the game for what it is, still play.

Quote:
What JKO needs in terms of its Mods is its version of Counter-Strike.
What did Counter-Strike ever do for Half-Life?

"Boosted sales, increased popularity" I hear you cry. WRONG. Counter-Strike improved the lot of two groups:

1. The Counter-Strike team, it made them famous and successful.
2. Sierra n' Valve. It sold more copies of Half-Life, making them money.

But is Half-Life ITSELF, its deathmatch, its game modes, more popular because of Counter-Strike? Not likely. Do people play Half-Life original deathmatch in big international tournaments? No. Do they play CS in big international tournaments? Yes.

Why? Because CS was so different. It was its OWN game. If a mod like that is released for Jedi Outcast, and becomes a big hit, what will that do for JO? Nothing. Sure, a lot of people will own the JO CD, and they may try it out even. But the mod, the "CS for JO" will be the real success. JO is what we play NOW. The CTF, the DM, the Duel. If a "CS for JO" is released, by definition, all that will survive of JO in it, is the engine.

Frankly I like JO. Doesn't sound to me as if you like JO. Sounds to me like you like the idea of JO, or more specifically, your idea of JO. And good luck to you, make your mod, realise your dream... but don't call it JO.

JO is what we play now. Is Pro-mod JO? Debatable. Would this "CS for JO" really be JO? No.

JO is alive and well... but if it dies, if it IS dying, there's NOTHING that can be done. More mods, more differences, more splits in the community... none of these things will save it. Actually, they'll damage it. Just sit back and enjoy JO while it lasts.

There are two defining characteristics that "successful" games possess in my view.

Games like UT, Quake 3 and HL TFC and CS fit these requirements BTW.

1. A large community. JO has a relatively small-to-medium community.
2. A thriving competitive scene. JO has no competitions going on to speak of anymore.

So JO isn't successful. Big deal! I like it anyway. Just because it's not the next Q3, doesn't mean it's dying. People still play JK1 for god's sake. JO will be around for ages, with more maps, more players, more SP missions and more mods... and more hare-brained schemes to "save" the game that's "obviously dying." Well who cares. I'm off to play it. That's my method of keeping it alive. Playing it.


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Old 09-18-2002, 10:12 PM   #27
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Well Spider Al you make very good points but...

Quote:
We like the game. They want to BE Jedi. That's why there are less people playing the game now than there were: Serious gamers have gone back to Quake 3 and UT because that's where the big contests are... And SW fanboy hobbyists have given up playing because they aren't willing to gain the skill to survive... yet they hate losing. That's why.
Without those "SW fanboy hobbyists" the game would not have been made. If there is no interest in the license they would not bother to pay for it. I might have taken it the wrong way but that statement seems abrasive to me.

Quote:
But the game is far from dead. People like me, who enjoy the game for what it is, still play.
But the main reason I care for the popularity of this game is for servers. You all argue that the game is not dead because YOU get to play. I cannot because the servers are shut down in my area. I live in Hawaii and many of those servers and West Coast servers are gone. Now go ahead and make a ignorant remark like "Make your own server". So I can play with bots?

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So JO isn't successful. Big deal!
It is a big deal to those who cannot play now so be mindful that popularity affects some of us in this "community"


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Old 09-20-2002, 03:29 AM   #28
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I found this in the dictionary about the word Skill
3.Ablity to comform to conditions DISPITE obsticles.

And you think you can complain about every thing in life and have something done about it? I didn't like terorist attacks on the twin towers, but it still happended didn't it?


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Old 09-20-2002, 04:12 AM   #29
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If anybody's looking for a change of pace from ffa and duels I have an assult type map that might interest you.

http://www.geocities.com/okr69/JediKnightII/

It's still beta but it's at least a map that requires some teamwork which is what this game needs.

Dont forget the Saga gametype has been discovered. Is that still considered true JO?
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Old 09-20-2002, 10:46 AM   #30
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Without those "SW fanboy hobbyists" the game would not have been made.
I'm sorry to have to inform you Hiteche, but that's utter nonsense. There's a difference between people who like the movies/EU and are enthusiastic about playing Jedi Outcast the GAME, and spotty herberts who want to pretend to be Jedi in that game.

I know as much SW trivia as the next man, I like the game... but I don't pretend to have supernatural powers, nor do I ever try to levitate my mouse with the power of the Force. The simple fact of the matter is that the game, as many including myself have stated before now, was hijacked by a bunch of loud and outspoken fanboys who had no idea what online gaming was all about. Jedi Outcast had a lot of potential in both the competitive and non-competitive gaming worlds, and those utter cauliflower-brains were largely responsible for JO's failiure to realise said potential.

And now as a matter of fact, a lot of them have gone, because they've realised that no matter how much they whine to Raven to tweak the game in their favour, they have no hope of achieving the levels of skill a gamesman can achieve. They're off sulking in some "no gunz no force no jump no moving no breathing" server somewhere.

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You all argue that the game is not dead because YOU get to play. I cannot because the servers are shut down in my area. I live in Hawaii
That's unfortunate for you. What about the Zone?

Quote:
Now go ahead and make a ignorant remark like "Make your own server".
And you accuse ME of being "abrasive?" Calm the hell down. Nobody likes a patronising person.

As for making a server, why don't you make an effort to find a large number of players from the same geographical location as yourself, who can work to re-establish some of your west-coast servers. It's doubtful you're the only Hawaiian looking for a game of JO. Or is that too much work?

It's all very well for people to pop up on forums complaining about how JO is dying, but none of them do anything constructive about their perceived problem. Oh, apart from making one of the ten-billion useless mods out there that make matters worse by polarising an already fragmented community.

Quote:
I found this in the dictionary about the word Skill...
Good call TheWhiteRaider.

My Collins Dictionary adds something interesting to its basic definition of skill. ("special ability... acquired by training")

It says here that the word "skill" derives from an ancient Norse word "skil" which meant distinction. Something that sets one apart, a positive difference, in other words.

It all comes down to skill really. The fanboys wanted to BE Jedi. I suppose in their twisted minds that meant that the skill of a Jedi should be provided to them on a platter. But most of them hadn't even tried to play Single Player on Jedi Master skill. They were always going to be disappointed. That's why they whined to Raven... They wanted to possess that indefinable quality that others had worked for, without having to work for it. Yes, laziness. Yes, thievery. Yes, crappy behaviour.

Raven has to carry some of the can, for any negative effects of 1.03. But hey, they tried their best to fix it in 1.04, poor sods were only listening to the vocal majority.

But there are whiners in every game community. I think it's about time companies stopped listening to the vocal majority. Bugfixes YES, gameplay changes NO. They should wait over three months after initial release, then call in the statistically best players in the world as patch consultants. Instead of listening to billy-no-frags, that is.

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Dont forget the Saga gametype has been discovered. Is that still considered true JO?
Anything that came with the game, activated or not, is true JO IMHO Miggs. N1 about the assault btw.


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Old 09-20-2002, 11:54 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL


I'm sorry to have to inform you Hiteche, but that's utter nonsense. There's a difference between people who like the movies/EU and are enthusiastic about playing Jedi Outcast the GAME, and spotty herberts who want to pretend to be Jedi in that game.

I know as much SW trivia as the next man, I like the game... but I don't pretend to have supernatural powers, nor do I ever try to levitate my mouse with the power of the Force. The simple fact of the matter is that the game, as many including myself have stated before now, was hijacked by a bunch of loud and outspoken fanboys who had no idea what online gaming was all about. Jedi Outcast had a lot of potential in both the competitive and non-competitive gaming worlds, and those utter cauliflower-brains were largely responsible for JO's failiure to realise said potential.

And now as a matter of fact, a lot of them have gone, because they've realised that no matter how much they whine to Raven to tweak the game in their favour, they have no hope of achieving the levels of skill a gamesman can achieve. They're off sulking in some "no gunz no force no jump no moving no breathing" server somewhere.
I rarely agree with Spider Al but everything he stated in the quote above is true, and very well written as always


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Old 09-20-2002, 06:57 PM   #32
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Blah! Don't agree with me Fatal, you'll make me look bad by association! Unless that was your plan... all along...



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Old 09-20-2002, 07:32 PM   #33
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As for making a server, why don't you make an effort to find a large number of players from the same geographical location as yourself, who can work to re-establish some of your west-coast servers. It's doubtful you're the only Hawaiian looking for a game of JO. Or is that too much work?
I have posted here a couple of times as well as on a local website for Hawain gamers. I have also rented a server running at the local LAN shop called PC Bang and after 2 weeks of no one being on except me they took it down. So I have done my legwork and put up money as well. Unfortunately most of the gamers are caught up in CS.

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That's unfortunate for you. What about the Zone?
I have tried to use the Zone as well. Pings above 150 people tend to stay away from.

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Nobody likes a patronising person.
I apologize...but I have heard that run your own server thing many times even though I have tried that option.

As for complaining about the fanboys and the patches...I think the mere fact that we have these shouting matches to begin with is the reason a majority of gamers dropped. We (I am including myself) have pointed fingers and shouted at each other enough. Jump on most servers (especially a FF, guns server) and there is more name calling than shooting. Puts off casual and avid gamers alike. Heck, even in the forums there is division.


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Old 09-20-2002, 07:47 PM   #34
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Well I'm afraid you're unstuck then mate. Other than forking out for a great connection so that you can play on the zone, there's not much you can do but wait, and continue to search for other Hawaiians. I remember when I used to play JK1... I would sometimes go for three-four days without finding a quality game to play with someone. I kept trying because I enjoyed it, and as a result I built up a knowledge of where to go to play, whom to play and when to search for a game.

Effort will be rewarded. Coming on here and complaining does no good for anyone.

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I think the mere fact that we have these shouting matches to begin with is the reason a majority of gamers dropped.
Nope. You say that most of your nearby gamers are playing CS. Have you ever played CS? It's the most insulting, bitter and unpleasant experience. People troll, laugh and cuss newbies, scream obscenities at each other over voice comms, cheat, accuse innocents of cheating and burn kittens in bonfires. Okay, maybe not that last one. Well they may do, I don't know.

But the point remains. CS is the most popular game in the world... and the community has the most adversarial atmosphere of almost any game.

Slanging matches and divisions don't frighten people away. The reason people are leaving: The whiners caused 1.03 to be created, which made a lot of serious gamers leave. 1.04 has caused a lot of whiners to leave. So a lot of people have left. And more people have left, because they can't find a game because a lot of people left! QED. But give it sayyy... three months, there'll be more going on. This sort of thing is not unheard of.

So have patience. Or there are other games to be getting on with.


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Old 09-20-2002, 08:01 PM   #35
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Effort will be rewarded. Coming on here and complaining does no good for anyone.
I did not post to whine but to offer a different point of view as to why some people(and myself) are concerned about the popularity of the game. I just would like to see more people in my area to play with. My connection is Cable but geography still hurts me. I am getting decent with a 200 ping but I would love to see what I could do with 30-50 pings.


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Old 09-20-2002, 08:22 PM   #36
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Game not dead, game will not be dead.





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Old 09-21-2002, 11:47 AM   #37
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My connection is Cable but geography still hurts me.
That is extremely unfortunate for you. But surely other Hawaiians would give you a better ping? Keep trying.

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Game not dead, game will not be dead.
I believe I said that, guh... Visitors.


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Old 09-21-2002, 11:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spider AL






I believe I said that, guh... Visitors.

visitors?


I was posting polls when your grandfather was in diapers!




Also, I was just supporting you.

People need to stop saying that JKII is dead. Makes me so mad.




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Old 09-21-2002, 11:56 AM   #39
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I was posting polls when your grandfather was in diapers!
Contrary to what people may think, that is actually possible. You see, I'm from... The FUTURE. My Grandfather was only born last year.

And since I'm from the future, I know that JO didn't die until a few years from now, upon the release of another sequel. Hooray, go back to your daily lives, there's nothing more to see here, please disperse.

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People need to stop saying that JKII is dead. Makes me so mad.
Yes. Me too. When one is from the future, one becomes regularly exasperated at the temporal ignorance of past-people.


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Old 09-21-2002, 12:01 PM   #40
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