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Old 09-24-2002, 11:55 PM   #41
thehomicidalegg
 
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you can give the dfa a HUGE defensive penalty so that even spinning it around would help against a half decent attack
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Old 09-25-2002, 09:44 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by thehomicidalegg
you can give the dfa a HUGE defensive penalty so that even spinning it around would help against a half decent attack
A red DFA should not be able to block at all. There is no reason for blocking when your saber is in the gorund.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 09-25-2002, 11:04 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
I'm sure you have dominated with blue stance lately Artifex, however my main issue is just how quick and efficient blue stance is. Right now, yellow stance and red stance can procure quick kills, however blue stance cannot. Now, while you may be of the opinion that we don't need every stance to be the quick killer, I don't know.
...
Blue's meant to be used as a whittling style. It's not meant to take someone down in 2 seconds, though it can if you hit the 6-swing combo right. It's difficult to do, as it should be.

You generally use it against an overly-aggressive opponent to protect yourself until you can find an opening.

Quote:

I'm also going to say it again, but I would love if you would make those parries, deflects, and knockways more pronounced. Restricting movement and momentum of the opponent. So if I parry, deflect, whatever, the opponent doesn't just watch his saber leap, he finds he loses control of his direction, perhaps jostling his crosshairs a bit. Just ideas though, probably not practical ones.
I'm thinking about adding Inertia as a completely new dimension to combat. I'm still hammering out the details, so I won't spill anything here just yet.


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Old 09-26-2002, 03:38 AM   #44
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i mentioned that cuz i think cjais it was who said that many other specials, like yellow dfa and lunge block certain attacks when they shouldnt... if they cant block them then all the better.
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Old 09-26-2002, 04:33 AM   #45
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on spins

Artifex mentioned yellow spins and possible solutions. I thought i'd throw my opinion out there. I think a damage/csc bonus is a better solution than speeding up yellow spins. Two reasons for this:

1. The yellow spins look powerful, go do one in game, particularly the spin to the right looks like it has tons of momentum behind it. Hitting with that spin (when it ever happens) feels very satisfying, though the damage is the same.

2. More impostantly, options. If you want to do a spin thats fast enough to minimize your risk, you already have such a move. blue spins. Variety is the key to interesting tactics. Making yellow spin more like a blue spin only limits options, and i'm never in favor of that.

Anyway, what do others think? This is an important topic to me, as i find spins fun, and it would be nice if they became viable.

P.S. I have to back artifex up on the power of blue stance, it really wreaks havoc on yellow when used properly.
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Old 09-26-2002, 06:10 AM   #46
AV4T4R
 
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Artifex, or someone who is working on PROMOD.

I'm from ITalian community called NGI, please i would like to talk with u in private!

My Icq is : 35433605

Contact me
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Old 09-27-2002, 02:01 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by AV4T4R
Artifex,

I'm from ITalian community called NGI, please i would like to talk with u in private!

Contact me
Uh - oh

ProMod got too much attention and now the mafia is moving to take it over. Artifex don't wear a wire no matter what the feds tell you!!

***packs a suitcase and leaves town***




Just kidding please don't think this was a flame, I was justing adding some humor.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 09-27-2002, 07:27 PM   #48
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I have a problem...everytime i try to load Promod I just get a blank white screen. Id LOVE some help here lol.
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Old 09-28-2002, 10:05 PM   #49
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questions since i am new....what was the saber damage scale in 1.02? what was it in 1.03 and what was it in 1.04?
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Old 09-29-2002, 04:02 PM   #50
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Damages in 1.02: Light: 30/ Medium: 60/ Strong: 100
Damages in 1.03-1.04: Light: 20-30/ Medium: 30/ Strong: 40-60

ProMod Damages: Light: 20-30/ Medium: 60/ Strong: 90


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Old 10-01-2002, 04:28 AM   #51
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I don't have a comment on the DFA 'cause I think Art's idea was the best one posted.

However, I don't think the backspin should be spinnable for the same reason the blue lunge shouldn't be aimable; the feet are planted in one place during the animation. I just doesn't look right for the backswiper to be spinning in place. However, something does need to be done to give the move more benefit. As is, there's almost no point in trying it.

Someone also mentioned that knocking someone down is useless because the knocked down person can get up right away and also push people while on the ground. However, they forgot that you can toss your saber at someone you just knocked down and they can do nothing to block it. So it's not useless.

My 2

-Soylent Green
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Old 10-01-2002, 06:53 AM   #52
Jah Warrior
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Ok i aint read all of this thread.

Spinning DFA? No big deal easy to avoid.

DFA leaves you too vulnerable? NOPE, not if you do it at the right time.

Spinning backstabs? LMFAO this is a joke yeah?

Speeding up yellow stance? Sounds good, spinning moves are far too vulnerable in beta 2.

OK if this mod is for the 'Above average' (LOL) players why not make the strikes so you have to get an absolutely perfect hit to get full damage. IE set damage for a Red swing at between 1 and 90 hp. 1hp for a scratch, 90 if you get a real corker of a hit that sinks in right the way up to the hilt. Damage should be dependent on the quality of the hit not just whether or not it actually touches.

A note to Artifex:-

Watch out man, this is stared to sound like the mod is heading for dangerous waters man, sounds like all the lamers want you to add all the wack moves again, the ones that nobody that plays well wanted to start with!!!

Also make sure you leave the server side damage scale enabled so that those that like to play for fun can tweak just a little!!!


Peace & Ting

Jah
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Old 10-01-2002, 09:38 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
...Damage should be dependent on the quality of the hit not just whether or not it actually touches.


Actually, the damage ramping system started in 1.03 already does that. Damage is scaled based on how close to the "power" segment of the swing animation you are (usually half way through) when you connect.

Quote:

A note to Artifex:-

Watch out man, this is stared to sound like the mod is heading for dangerous waters man, sounds like all the lamers want you to add all the wack moves again, the ones that nobody that plays well wanted to start with!!!

Also make sure you leave the server side damage scale enabled so that those that like to play for fun can tweak just a little!!!


I'm taking all suggestions seriously, but I'm using my own judgement in the final decision. I won't put any over/under powered moves back into the game.

The server side damage scale variable will always be available. It's so broad and generalized in its effect that I think players aren't too confused by its use.


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Old 10-01-2002, 10:29 AM   #54
Jah Warrior
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Actually, the damage ramping system started in 1.03 already does that. Damage is scaled based on how close to the "power" segment of the swing animation you are (usually half way through) when you connect.



I'm taking all suggestions seriously, but I'm using my own judgement in the final decision. I won't put any over/under powered moves back into the game.

The server side damage scale variable will always be available. It's so broad and generalized in its effect that I think players aren't too confused by its use.
sounds like you are on the right track then man.

Less posting more coding dude!!! bloody impatient here mate!!!


Peace & Ting

Jah
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Old 10-01-2002, 11:48 AM   #55
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Quote:
I am losing hope in this community. The point is to make a Mod that is for the BEST players and I am given spamming concerns?

Some of you still haven't realized the double fixes you are advocating. If you can block a DFA then you don't need it nerfed. If you can't be draged down then you don't need a nerfed BS. How can you not see that?

YOU CAN'T SPAM WHAT CAN BE BLOCKED!!!!

its a simple concept...or at least I thought it was.
Fatal, I am a little late in this thread but I need to tell you that you are the f**king man. You are always right on the money with your views on JK2. I totally agree with everything you are saying. I just wish more people couldsee the light. They ruined JK2 for me when they nerfed it to make it noob freindly.

I have stopped playing JK2 for a while in favor or SOF2 for now. If anyone thinks JK2 attacks are too strong they should try this game. Sometimes you get killed and you never even saw your attacker and had no idea where he was. SOF2 is not noob freidly at all and that's great. It took me a while to get good at it but its worth it.

Every patch for SOF2 had made the game better with more weapons and more ways to kill. It is funny how the same company could be so wrong about one game and so right about another.
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Old 10-01-2002, 12:57 PM   #56
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Quote:
Actually, the damage ramping system started in 1.03 already does that. Damage is scaled based on how close to the "power" segment of the swing animation you are (usually half way through) when you connect.
Some more questions.

Does this also mean that the power segment of the swing (ver 1.03, 1.04) directly correlates with the CSC aim at high value?.... been trying to explain this mod to others and some gripe that you shouldn't have to aim a saber to hit. I usually explain to them, on pure assumption, that the basic version of the game already has a sweet spot on the swing and that the CSC correlates to this. But I'm only assuming this to be the case. I also assume that the CSC has to achieve good aim at the moment of contact during a saber attack and not during the entire swing, thus you can initiate the attack facing any direction (...at the risk of poor defense value).

I've been playing a bit now and its my opinion that the damage values are spot on. 1-1.5 clean hit with red stance, 2-3 clean hits with yellow-stance, and a few more for blue-stance. These are clean hits; with the excellent defense system an engagement lasts far longer than just a few saber swings.

Defense is almost perfect. One thing that I'm not certain about is when two players swing almost simultaneously (and sabers do not come in contact with each other); player1 hits first then player2's swing continues thru to hit. Maybe the CSC values could do a check in this situation and if player1 has the appropriate value then a block or "jammed" attack occurs. Currently the player with the stronger attack but not the first attack wins the engagement. Its the evolution of broadsword to rapier issue, the broadsword has the power but during the broadsword wind-up the rapier was penetrating gaps in armor, piercing vital organs and cutting arteries. Basically adding a provision where you could "beat some one to the punch" with a quick successful attack.

Something else to consider may be to add a knock-down from a perfect redstance hit that is just barely blocked.

Has the backstab aiming arc been changed? They seem harder to execute. Adding a small arch of rotation to DFA and backstab would discourage script users from using the Blender-Backsweep but also allow a degree of aiming to occur. Currently Backsweeps/stabs aren't viable attacks.

Anyway, great work so far.


****************

Quote:
Every patch for SOF2 had made the game better with more weapons and more ways to kill. It is funny how the same company could be so wrong about one game and so right about another
It is Lucas Arts that has final cut on JK2 content. Raven is a subcontractor.


Last edited by MrCrusher; 10-01-2002 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 10-01-2002, 02:54 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrCrusher



It is Lucas Arts that has final cut on JK2 content. Raven is a subcontractor.

Then Lucas Arts is a piece of Sh^t.

Lucas arts blunders...

Star Wars DVD's
Jar Jar Binks
Spy Kids 2
Hayden Christensen as an actor


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 10-01-2002, 08:03 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by FatalStrike


Then Lucas Arts is a piece of Sh^t.

Lucas arts blunders...

Star Wars DVD's
Jar Jar Binks
Spy Kids 2
Hayden Christensen as an actor

Lol .... Yeah remember when Lucasarts could do no wrong as far as games of the SW franchise were concerned ? .... And now we are at this sorry state .... Where even when they get someone else to make a great SW game, LArts can step in at well past the eleventh hour .... and still totally F%^K everything up ....

You forgot to mention Midiclorians and Greedo firing first ;0)

Last edited by Ged; 10-01-2002 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 10-02-2002, 08:15 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
sounds like you are on the right track then man.

Less posting more coding dude!!! bloody impatient here mate!!!
Not to worry, I'm going on a coding binge here soon to get the guns/saber balance system integrated.


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Old 10-02-2002, 08:31 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrCrusher


Some more questions.

Does this also mean that the power segment of the swing (ver 1.03, 1.04) directly correlates with the CSC aim at high value?.... been trying to explain this mod to others and some gripe that you shouldn't have to aim a saber to hit. I usually explain to them, on pure assumption, that the basic version of the game already has a sweet spot on the swing and that the CSC correlates to this. But I'm only assuming this to be the case. I also assume that the CSC has to achieve good aim at the moment of contact during a saber attack and not during the entire swing, thus you can initiate the attack facing any direction (...at the risk of poor defense value).


This is exactly correct. I've tried to explain to people that the CSC is only reinforcing what they should have been doing all along. There should be nearly no learning curve if they were fighting well before.

Quote:

I've been playing a bit now and its my opinion that the damage values are spot on. 1-1.5 clean hit with red stance, 2-3 clean hits with yellow-stance, and a few more for blue-stance. These are clean hits; with the excellent defense system an engagement lasts far longer than just a few saber swings.

Defense is almost perfect. One thing that I'm not certain about is when two players swing almost simultaneously (and sabers do not come in contact with each other); player1 hits first then player2's swing continues thru to hit. Maybe the CSC values could do a check in this situation and if player1 has the appropriate value then a block or "jammed" attack occurs. Currently the player with the stronger attack but not the first attack wins the engagement. Its the evolution of broadsword to rapier issue, the broadsword has the power but during the broadsword wind-up the rapier was penetrating gaps in armor, piercing vital organs and cutting arteries. Basically adding a provision where you could "beat some one to the punch" with a quick successful attack.


Right now, if two players swing at each other at roughly the same time, without clashing sabers, then both players will score a hit, as neither player is able to interrupt their attack to block.

I see what you're talking about, but being able to interrupt their attack, or "hit them before they hit you" and take the wind out of their swing would give a huge advantage to the faster styles. You'd be able to rush any slower stance swing and get in a quick nick or two before they could complete their swing, and interrupt it. That would lead to a lot of people not using the Red stance, which is slightly underpowered at this point anyway.

Am I correctly reading what you're suggesting here?

Quote:

Something else to consider may be to add a knock-down from a perfect redstance hit that is just barely blocked.

Has the backstab aiming arc been changed? They seem harder to execute. Adding a small arch of rotation to DFA and backstab would discourage script users from using the Blender-Backsweep but also allow a degree of aiming to occur. Currently Backsweeps/stabs aren't viable attacks.

Anyway, great work so far...


I'm already considering the role of swing inertia with the heavier swings. I'll just have to see what I can do with it.

The backstab CSC aiming point is inverted, so a "perfect" aim would be directly behind you. This makes the backstabs really hard to do; maybe too hard. I'm not going to make them spinnable, because the animations have their feet planted firmly on the ground, but I am considering giving the moves a bonus that'll increase their usefulness without making them too powerful.


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Old 10-03-2002, 01:30 PM   #61
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I like that suggestion about the swing vs swing.

Although, it's true that faster stances would get preference because they'd just cancel out heavy swings if they hit.

What if getting hit would jostle your aim a bit, affect the other persons csc.

We know that in this game red beats blue, yellow beats red, blue beats yellow... yada yada yada. But there are situations where red doesn't just beat blue, but completely outclasses it. A person can use a blue lunge, but rather than be rewarded for outmaneuvering the opponent and striking first, he gets slammed, and being stuck in an animation, there's nothing he can do.

If you could have an effect where getting pecked to death would effect your csc values a bit, i think that would give more of an incentive for players to be careful when doing swings. Blue stance would effectively become a counter system, and have the ability to snuff attacks quite well, pending you're both kind of trading hits.

This is the nature of fighting in general, so to speak, pending you do something painful enough. I think a lightsaber is.

Oh, and why don't you just fess up and tell us all what this new force power thing is.
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