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Old 11-27-2002, 06:13 PM   #41
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About the Vader dying by just a little lightning thing. I don't know who said this, but at least I agree with it. In ep2, in the last saber duel, Anakin rushes towards Dooku, but then Dooku hits him hard with lightning, and after a second or so Anakin is mortally wounded. This is because Dooku wanted to damage Anakin as much as possible at as little time as possible, and therefore he hits him very hard. However, in ep6, the Emperor wants to give Luke a really slow and painful death, and therefore not using too much power on the lightning. But when Vader picks up Palpantine to kill him, Palpy naturally fears for his life, and therefore using the lightning as powerful as he can at Vader. Naturally this kills Vader, along with the arm-cutting.
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Old 11-27-2002, 07:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Anakin rushes towards Dooku, but then Dooku hits him hard with lightning, and after a second or so Anakin is mortally wounded.
Stunned, definitely, but certainly not mortally wounded. Mortally wounded means you're gonna die without immediate medical attention.



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Old 11-27-2002, 07:13 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

Stunned, definitely, but certainly not mortally wounded. Mortally wounded means you're gonna die without immediate medical attention.

Mind that I do not come from an english speaking country

"Badly wounded" would perhaps be better?
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Old 11-27-2002, 08:16 PM   #44
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The emperor was taken by surprise and didn’t have time to react, so I don’t think he did anything but scream. I think short bursts of force lightning shock, only long exposure would kill. Vader though couldn't take any lightning as it messed up his suit and the life-supporting devices stop working. that why he knew he was dying.
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Old 11-27-2002, 08:54 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn
About the Vader dying by just a little lightning thing. I don't know who said this, but at least I agree with it. In ep2, in the last saber duel, Anakin rushes towards Dooku, but then Dooku hits him hard with lightning, and after a second or so Anakin is mortally wounded. This is because Dooku wanted to damage Anakin as much as possible at as little time as possible, and therefore he hits him very hard. However, in ep6, the Emperor wants to give Luke a really slow and painful death, and therefore not using too much power on the lightning. But when Vader picks up Palpantine to kill him, Palpy naturally fears for his life, and therefore using the lightning as powerful as he can at Vader. Naturally this kills Vader, along with the arm-cutting.
You are 99% right about all that. The 1% is the mortally thing.


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Old 11-27-2002, 11:22 PM   #46
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Humor me, but if lightning would have shorted the circuits in vader's circuitry, then how was Luke still able to use his arm after being literally toasted by the Emperor. In my opinion if the force lightning is really electrical lightning, then I can see where it affected vaders circuitry, but why doesn't it affect Luke? Now if Force Lightning is just concentrated energy unrelated to electricity, then the Force lightning just badly hurt Vader's life/lifeforce.


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Old 11-27-2002, 11:52 PM   #47
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That is a very good point man. No one thought of it before. That was why I wasn't buying the whole fried his circuitry theory. He was injured before and that lightining just finished him off in my opinion.


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Old 11-28-2002, 12:02 AM   #48
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My thoughts exactly. Although it could be argued that Luke only had a mechanical hand which is too small to hurt the rest of his body. Vader lifesupport was in his mechanical suit. If thats fried then he cant live. But regardless of these theories, Sidious's lightning attack would have killed him anyway.


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Old 11-28-2002, 12:46 AM   #49
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Originally posted by Ratmjedi
But why would his hand being cut off make him die. His hand had been cut off other times before and this one was a cybernetic one so it's like it would of killed him. Lukes was shot and he didn't get really injured by it. It was like a scratch or a little jolt of pain.
like it was said before Vader's suit was a sealed unit like a nasa space suit, so when luke chopped off the hand the suit was no longer sealed. i like my theory on this subject.



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Old 11-28-2002, 02:02 AM   #50
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I think that it was the emperor's lightning that fried vader. Thinking deeply on all the events in that scene. after his hand gets cut off and we see him lying there he is breathing with much effort, practically wheezing, this COULD be from damage caused by the removal of his hand, but my guess is that he's just plain tired, he's been dueling for a long time and that last volley of Luke's was dynamite. Now if it were the removal of the hand that caused the death of Vader one would assume that he would have been in a much weakened condition, and not able to recover enough strength to get back up, this however is not the case.
Vader is able to stand next to the Emperor who is currently frying Luke AND is strong enough to lift said emperor over his head. Therefore i personally think the loss of his hand hurt him less than it hurt Luke when he lost his. And had the cut to his suit been something that would cause a decompression of sorts and cause him to die you would think he'd know about it and try to get somewhere to get it fixed, instead of standing by to watch the emperor fry luke.
Now while Vader has the emperor above his head, the emperor seems to lose control of his lightning, during this time i think that his terror causes him to reflexively fire his lightning as powerfully as he can, similar to when people get frightened and can lose control of bodily functions During his electrocution we also see part of vaders skeleton, implying a HUGE voltage running through him. Then as soon as he finishes dropping the emperor he slumps to the ground, wheezing uncontrolably. Now if the lightning ruined his suit, or simply overloaded his nervous system i cannot say, but i am certain that is WAS the lightning that did it.



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Old 11-28-2002, 03:24 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Plo_Koon_27


like it was said before Vader's suit was a sealed unit like a nasa space suit, so when luke chopped off the hand the suit was no longer sealed. i like my theory on this subject.

I was the one that said that Vader suit was like a NASA suit.


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Old 11-28-2002, 06:41 PM   #52
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I think Luke could still use his hand because palpatine didn't use his 100% to make Luke suffer while he unleashed everything on Vader.


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Old 11-28-2002, 07:25 PM   #53
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Something just occured to me. I always thought Palpatine had control over Vader because of the lightning. I know Vader respected him etc, but up until I saw the lightning, I wondered why Vader wasn't running the show. I know Ep2 has expained alot of that now so I'm not worried about that anymore. One thing is bothering me now, what does Palpatine have over Dooku that is stopping Dooku running the show?


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Old 11-28-2002, 07:43 PM   #54
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Palpatine is the only Sith Lord at the time. He managed to go through many Padawan's and stay the Master. Dooku may of been a Master Jedi but compared to Palpatine Dooku was nothing. Palpatine had studied the Sith Holocron's and knew all about the powers. He could of easily of disposed of Dooku if he wanted to. The Palpatine in EP VI was very old so he couldn't really retaliate tha much. Palpatine in EP I and EP II was younger and could of been more of a threat.


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Old 12-02-2002, 02:31 PM   #55
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Well it seems that dooku only manages to control Force lighting with one hand. Sidious uses both

About the Mon Calamari thing, ok the name can be more or less EU, but possibly Lucas invented that one since i think that name should have rose arroud ROTJ release. Anyway could you think of a better name?! What is ackbar? A humanoid squid (well he also resembles a hammer shark) That name could also have fitted perfectly for the quarren, who are a humanoid body attacehd to a squid.


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Old 12-02-2002, 05:45 PM   #56
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Obi Wan - He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil...

OBVIOUSLY his left hand is no longer flesh. That overload bs is just that, bs. In the old Star Wars RP (the d6 system), the Force powers available were by rank, and according to that *which is monitored by Lucas*, Palpatine was a Jedi Master, whereas Vader was a Jedi Knight. My point is, Lightning is a Master power, and Grip was padawan I believe. Unfortunantly, they quit publishing these d6 rule books before Episode 2 came, so Dooku's stats arent in it. But in this new bs system, a level 1 Jedi can use Lightning at anytime, same with grip
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:45 PM   #57
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I agree with the lightning supercharge idea here. Decompression is not an issue because the hand was a machine-if you expose a robot's hand to bad air or something, is it harmed? no. Second, Force Lightning is NOT like electric lightning. If so, wouldn't the Emperor's and Dooku's have been attracted to the METAL floor of their rooms, killing all in the room? Granted, enough force control could have let them prevent that, but after less than 10 years as a Sith, I don't think Dooku could have managed this. I think Vader just uses Grip over lightning because of the greater finesse, and also he is able to gain the respect of say, crewers, rather than turning a guy to ashes and frightning the crew to death, Vader can have a body as a clear sign of his power in a way that is frightnign but not terrifying.
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Old 12-03-2002, 03:00 AM   #58
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I think this discussion is long finished. FYI.


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Old 12-12-2002, 12:58 AM   #59
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I have but one statement:

Vader is more machine than man. Force lightning has at least 1,000 volts of electricity. Imagine the effect it would have on a life support system.

2 words:
Power surge.




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Old 12-12-2002, 01:22 AM   #60
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That only applies BobaJango if you are referring to terms of lightning that we know of, which is electric, not some "FORCE" driven power. So by the Star Wars standards, Force Lightning could simply be 120v, or 5000 of OUR volts. But since it isnt of our natural lightning, we cannot assess that it is 1,000 volts or of ANY Voltage.


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Old 12-12-2002, 07:10 PM   #61
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I think of grip in the same class as persuassion, that it can't be used agains't others who are significantly strong with the force, because you manipulating the person themselve.

Iv'e never heard anythiong official on these things, just your guys theorys often based off the EU stuff, and others interpretations.
Vadar it's stated that he was struck in the heart by the lightning.
Whats more for the people that ridiculously say his helmet tooken off killed him should listen harder. Vadar says nothing can stop that now after look stated it.
THats suggest the emperor gave him a killing blow.
As brought in the OFFICIAL STARS WARS AOTC visual dictionary Dooku as a jedi master had access and studided some of the forbidden holocrons like the sity holocron.

Also if you have the book look at page 49, ( I dont have a scanner) it stated after he left the order he no longer had access to the sith holocron so he studies holographic cells containing mystic teaching of shadowy power which was given to him by sidious.

Force lightning cause excruitiating pain and weakens life it also says impossible to deflect, however we saw differen't.

Anyway thats enough freebe, you'll just have to but the official book.


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Old 12-13-2002, 12:29 AM   #62
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All right, then why did we see smoke rising from the singed body of Anakin Skywalker after Dooku used "Force lightning" on him?




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Old 12-13-2002, 01:17 AM   #63
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the heat alone, even if not natural lightning alone would be enough to begin to smoke the body and fabric of his Padawan gear. Its simple natural understanding of bioelectricl chemistry and the forces of the universe. Nothing to extreme, like deciphering the language of Drive-Thru


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Old 12-13-2002, 01:48 AM   #64
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So it's possible that vader would have (if he used lightning) melted his circuits inside his hand. We all know metal is a conductor of electricity, so wouldn't it have melted his circuits in the process? Just a wild guess.




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Old 12-13-2002, 02:44 AM   #65
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Also, have you considered their methods might be due to the reasons for their force choice.

For example. Dooku wanted to take out his opponents. Thus, lightning was a quick effective way. *ZAP* Strike 1 opponent.

Palpatine wanted to torture Luke, hence, lightning would cause him extreme pain (go and electricute yourself, see what I mean)


Vader on the other hand, wanted to make people fear him, as we can see when the Officer gulps in Episode 6?? when he is promoted by Vader after his senior officer is killed.

Its a scare tactic, both for the person who he chokes (ie. in Episode 4 on the Death Star) and for those who witness it. (Every other use.)


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Old 12-13-2002, 02:49 AM   #66
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Good analysis, but dont you mean Episode 5? (Vader "choked" Admiral Ozzle and replaced him with Piett.)




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Old 12-13-2002, 12:08 PM   #67
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You are being too straight-minded. The force is such an open energy...millions of possibilities can be broken by the Jedi. Millions of things can be done, million of powers can be used. You know, it's not a matter of I-chose-this-and-you-chose-that or I-can-only-use-grip. It's a manipulation. It's the force, after all. So, Vader, or even Dooku, can have different styles, or a different training, but they use the force as a whole to brake normal laws. Even with lightning, even with grip, or even doing other things. It's not a question of what appear on the movies or what's there to choose on Jedi knight ii...=]


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Old 12-13-2002, 04:42 PM   #68
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Originally posted by Frizbee
Vader on the other hand, wanted to make people fear him, as we can see when the Officer gulps in Episode 6?? when he is promoted by Vader after his senior officer is killed.
Or it could have simply run this way...

Anakin: "Dooku is extremely powerful with the Force. I should learn to generate lightning from my fingertips like he can."
Obi-wan: "Perhaps my young padawan, but my lightsaber easily absorbed the lightning."
Anakin: "Perhaps I could find a more effective way to eliminate my advesaries from a distance."
Obi-wan: "Be careful, or you risk falling down the path of the Dark side."
Anakin: "Oh yes, yes, of course. What am I thinking? (muttered under his breath) You're just afraid I'll overshadow you, aren't you master?"

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Old 12-13-2002, 10:24 PM   #69
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the force lightning couldn't of surged his circuits for any of the following reasons


1. He wore leather gloves. leather probably isnt exactly superconductive

2. the lightning probably wouldnt come from his arm. it comes from his finger TIPS.

3. Even if it would surge his circuits, he'd just stop it before i did any real damage and he'd find a way to shoot it from outside of his hand
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Old 12-14-2002, 02:13 AM   #70
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Even though Vader is more machine than human, he is still human, and the force lightning is a manipulated form of the Force with one intention: Mortally wound the intended foe. Anakin was obviously hurting when fighting Dooku. Only a rush of the force and adrenaline were able to help him. It is obvious that depending upon your relation to the force, it will determine how much of a burst of force energy you will receive. Look at Yoda. He goes from cane to the flying trapeze to cane.


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Old 12-22-2002, 08:20 AM   #71
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The reason vader died from force lightning, very simple.

First palps was only using a small "current" on luke to hurt him and not kill. Then after torturing he finally says, "now young skywalker you will die" in other words he turns the current to KILL, that is when Vader intervenes.

So not only does Vader have a much higher voltage of lightning it also goes straight inot his brain, as u can see when the lightining shows his skull.
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