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Old 10-14-2003, 04:36 PM   #1
razorace
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Just the Facts Please: The JKA Patch

I'm starting this to compile facts, and only facts, on the upcoming patch for JKA. Please do not post anything other than facts that you have personally received from Raven about the patch.

This is NOT a thread to ask for additional bugfixs/gameplay fixes.

This is NOT a thread for posting "Wow!", "Thanks!", or other useless and cluttering posts.

Anyway, I'll start the ball on the facts about the patch.

- Raven is working on getting a patch out for the game.

- Many members of Raven have been pushing for a patch for some time now. Something is slowing down their progress.

- There will be new maps in the patch.

- It is unlikely that there will be any major AI improvements in the patch.

- A bug fix for the single saber backward walking animation will be in the patch.


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Old 10-14-2003, 04:42 PM   #2
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- The pickuppablesabers CVAR from the demo will be added

-Some dynamic glow problems will be fixed (Hopefully it will work now)


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Old 10-14-2003, 04:48 PM   #3
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  • Vehicle control improved (SP, MP, both? not sure)
  • Dynamic glow speed and bug issues fixed
  • Bug fixes from the demo put into the single player game, such as fixed hub level loading for mappers (make level transitions like Deus Ex or HL expansions)

The first two I heard from Zer0-L0gic, a designer who worked on the Siege maps in JA. Not saying he's wrong, but information directly from the programmers should certantly be considered more carved in stone than from a designer. Just a general disclaimer so people don't beat me if those fixes aren't there.

The last one I got directly from James Monroe via e-mail.

Razorace, do you know what maps are to be included?


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Old 10-14-2003, 05:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emon
Razorace, do you know what maps are to be included?
Nope, sorry.


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Old 10-14-2003, 05:53 PM   #5
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As far as we know, there has been no mention of any gameplay "balancing" alterations, correct?
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:08 PM   #6
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Correct, but then again, no one has asked. I assume there are changes in balance.


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Old 10-14-2003, 06:08 PM   #7
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Personally I can live with that, back in the JO days I refused to download any of the patches, I found it to be right as it was XD if there's one thing that needs fixing it's the need for Force energy to pull of saber specials like the lunge.
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:12 PM   #8
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No word yet. And please don't ask questions in this tread. We are already posting everything we have.


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Old 10-14-2003, 11:01 PM   #9
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Raven has acknowledged the In-game server browser is not showing all the servers, and will be fixing it on the client side via the Patch.


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Old 10-17-2003, 01:55 AM   #10
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Thank you for actually reading the first post before posting. :P

Do NOT post unless you have some new information about the patch to add.


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Old 10-30-2003, 01:49 AM   #11
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*bump*

No additional news but this thread was off the main page. Plus, someone was looking for information on the patch.


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Old 10-30-2003, 05:51 AM   #12
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i think someone should make a little noise and tell raven to consider about balancing the dual sabers' kata....the one where the two sabers spins really fast when spinning the mouse around. it's lame but it racks up kills in duels faster than you can say bananas.


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Old 10-30-2003, 07:00 AM   #13
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razorace is there any idea of the release date ?


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Old 10-30-2003, 08:40 AM   #14
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If I haven't posted it, I simply don't know. My best guess is after the X-Box release next month.


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Old 10-30-2003, 04:32 PM   #15
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Sorry to bring this up guys, but...

Could someone post a link to an offical statement made around here by either a Raven or Lucasarts representative that confirms a patch is being made in the first place? And that the above statements are actually facts?

There's several people over on the Ravenforums making a lot of noise that there has never been any "official" statement, and that all of this is community conjecture and heresay. While I disagree with them and think that a patch being under construction would be obvious, it is extremely difficult to track down any hard proof of it's existence. Thanks.


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Old 10-30-2003, 04:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akshara
There's several people over on the Ravenforums making a lotta of noise that there has never been any "official" statement, and that all of this is community conjecture and heresay.
They are correct. The fact is that there may be no patch at all. We'll have to wait and see.
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Old 10-30-2003, 06:20 PM   #17
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Well, Kenn Hoekstra said in a brief reply to a member's email that there would be a patch, but its up to Activision and LucasArts on when it will be released. The reason for the patch is for obvious bugs/problems like the in-game browser being one, and other problems that need to be addressed by Raven and LucasArts.


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Old 10-30-2003, 06:31 PM   #18
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I believe all our information is from individual email communications to/from Raven. Many staffers at Raven want to do a patch but there's a lot of internal politics involved.

We just haven't gotten anything "official".


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Old 10-30-2003, 07:10 PM   #19
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The patche's number will be 1.1.

Don't say big deal please, lol. It's the only thing I could find.


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Old 10-30-2003, 07:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy867
Well, Kenn Hoekstra said in a brief reply to a member's email that there would be a patch, but its up to Activision and LucasArts on when it will be released.
I realize that Raven developers are keen on a patch, and may haved worked on one. But until Lucasarts gives the go-ahead, there won't be one. That was the only point I was trying to make.
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Old 10-30-2003, 11:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
i think someone should make a little noise and tell raven to consider about balancing the dual sabers' kata....the one where the two sabers spins really fast when spinning the mouse around. it's lame but it racks up kills in duels faster than you can say bananas.
This and other gameplay changes are really unnecessary (and will piss off more people than it "helps"). Cruise the strategy forums and you'll see dozens of counters posted for this.

The fact is when I play certain people using the Saber Barrier is a death sentence for me, that's how easy it is to counter! ; )

Anyway, back to the facts about the patch...


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Old 10-31-2003, 01:16 AM   #22
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darn...then i must've sucked


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Old 10-31-2003, 06:00 AM   #23
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yup dual sabers has millions of counters like rollstab wait for wind down and kata lunge dfa hundreds of em
and im glad they r fixing the single walk backwards animation
so anyone willing to share their source of info?


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Old 10-31-2003, 03:26 PM   #24
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Ok everybody, here's what I found on Ravenforums...

The following are a few Kenn Hoekstra quotes for all you keeping score. The first one is from an email sent in mid-September in reply to a request from Ravenfourms' very own Kathybates...

Quote:
"Well…I hate to tell you this, but you were right. It’s a definite bug in the game. We’ve fixed the code on our end for a patch, but until the patch is available, there’s no way to work around it on the client end other than continually refreshing your server or by hosting your server through GameSpy Arcade".
This next one is in response to requests concerning the previous one, posted on Oct. 3rd by Ravenfourms' very own... well, Kathybates...

Quote:
I realize that you think that I'm ignoring you, but that's not the case. There is a lot going on here this week and I've just gotten a bit behind on my e-mail.

If I could go into more detail about what we're doing over here right now, I certainly would. I thank you again for bringing the issue to our attention.

Once I know something more concrete, I will certainly let you (and everyone else) know.

--Kenn
And that's about it folks. So there's three things that can be taken from what was said... 1) Raven has fixed the code for the server bug, and is waiting for the go ahead to put it in a patch; 2) If they could go into more detail about the situation they would; and 3) As soon as they can tell us something, we'll be the first one's to know about it.

Anything else at this time is pure speculation and conjecture on the part of the JA community, including but not limited to the reasons why Raven can't discuss it, and why it hasn't been released yet. The only other official corroborating statements that we have to date are the ones we agreed to in the JA EULA, stating that LucasArts is the sole owner of JA and any other releases related to it.

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ps. I know these are old news (Rad, baby...), and that the source is, shall we say, just a little less than credible. But it's absolutely all we have right now, unless someone else comes forward with a communication.


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Last edited by Akshara; 10-31-2003 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 11-05-2003, 01:48 PM   #25
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Update

Ok everybody... the latest news over at Ravenforums comes from an email Kathybates received yesterday...

Quote:
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 4:04 PM

Subject: RE: Frustration

Tony,

I understand your frustrations and what led you to move on to another game. Contrary to your beliefs, we are hard at work on a patch that will fix many of the problems you have mentioned, and hope to have this available sometime around the New Year.

Regards,
Now he doesn't list who this is from, but stated that it was a Raven official. Since KB has moved on to hosting another game, and from the levelheadedness of his recent posts, I personally have no reason to doubt the information.

So according to this, the patch is currently under development, but we shouldn't expect it until around the year's end.

ps. don't shoot the messenger.


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Old 11-05-2003, 02:01 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akshara
Update

Ok everybody... the latest news over at Ravenforums comes from an email Kathybates received yesterday...


Now he doesn't list who this is from, but stated that it was a Raven official. Since KB has moved on to hosting another game, and from the levelheadedness of his recent posts, I personally have no reason to doubt the information.
Very interesting. I can understand why he/she would give a name, since they are probably legally obligated not to discuss such things.

Quote:
Originally posted by Akshara
So according to this, the patch is currently under development, but we shouldn't expect it until around the year's end.
Year's end? It may be too late by then to undo the damage done by the browser issue. But then again, many people may come back to at least give JA a try again.

As for it taking four months for a patch, there may be several possible reasons:

1. They a very weary about quick patches after JO, and want things to settle a bit more before they decide on certain changes.

2. Lucasarts has decreed that a patch is not to be released before then.

3. Some bug fixes are technically difficult enough to that it will take that long to iron them all out.

4. There is so many changes(gameplay or otherwise) that it will take that long to code and test them.

5. This information is wrong and we are right back to not knowing about a patch

Quote:
Originally posted by Akshara
ps. don't shoot the messenger.
Your days are numbered. Grrrr.
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Old 11-05-2003, 03:27 PM   #27
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Want to talk about interesting...

So the admin over at Ravenforums deleted the thread with this information, along with several others. But believe me, it was really there at one point for several hours. I also had several of my own posts deleted.

Not really liking the vibe over at ravenforums these days...


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Old 11-05-2003, 03:48 PM   #28
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Hi, this is kathy bates...Im the one who's posted the Raven emails regarding the patch...they all are legit, and you will be seeing the patch early next year...Im not sure about SDK, but I have replied to them inquiring about it, lets hope it doesnt take two months to get a response!!

In a related note, i just want to speak my opinion on how the official Raven forums are devoid of any true public spoken opinions...All our threads this morning were deleted or edited, all began very tactfully discussing the response from Raven re: the patch, all were locked immediately...finally they just banned me for proving them and WadeV wrong the whole time...very very sad, especially being the official Raven site...if you have any negative opinions, or even just a general question about the patch, do not bother going to raven's sites...they will delete, lock, and ban you with no reason necessary...

Unfortunate about how much longer the patch will take, but at least now we know...


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Old 11-05-2003, 04:02 PM   #29
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Hey KB...

So they're now saying over at Ravenforums that the email you received about the New Year release was fake. I told them that coming there to post a fake email seemed like extreme action even for you, and that the tone surrounding the post seemed genuine. Do you have any comment on this?


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Old 11-05-2003, 04:23 PM   #30
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I don't visit those forums, so I don't know about what the deleted posts contain, but I can understand removal about patch information from developers, since they are most likely legally obligated not to discuss it...
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Old 11-05-2003, 04:25 PM   #31
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I can understand that as well... but that wasn't how the situation was presented - it was more of a personal thing against KB. Also, they have now publicly stated that the email posted was a fake... those are pretty strong words.

I'd just like to get to the truth of the situation, and I'm just a little miffed that I've had several posts deleted or edited by the moderators over there which didn't contain any sensitve or inflammatory material at all.


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Old 11-05-2003, 04:48 PM   #32
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haha!!

The email from Raven is legit...it's from someone other than Kenn Hoekstra this time, someone who I had never had correspondance with before and found his name and title in a manufacturing program we pay good $$ for at work that allows you to search companies for specific contacts, when I replied regarding the SDK release, I also asked if it is a prob posting their name and title, havn't gotten a reply yet...heh figures.

Let them think it's a fake over at their "forums", let them keep deleting any threads regarding bugs, fixes, etc...I'm done over there, in fact I was done over there since about a week ago, but once I got the mail yesterday I thought it would be a good place to post, to both inform the players looking for info as well as to prove Wade he was wrong all along, that he kept trying to pass his speculation off as fact, and I wasn't buying it...

Hopefully most of the gamers over there also frequent this site and will get word of the patch release date information.

I can't think of ANY other reason they would delete all those posts except for the simple blatant fact that they were burned in many of their theories: Raven not being able to disclose info, that the patch was already complete, etc...

There IS the possibility that there is a silence clause in Raven/LEC's contract, and maybe my new source wasn't aware of what they could/couldnt say. In that case, I could see a response by Raven or MAYBE a deletion, if it was deleted by a Raven official. But for the mod to say it was a fake is wrong, no matter what the reason...they are just doing everything in their power to save face. Which is ridiculous, because it isnt about proving who is right or wrong, but just to get the info out there so server owners can justify how long to keep a server rented/going, as well as to players who are having problems.


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Old 11-05-2003, 05:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akshara
I'd just like to get to the truth of the situation, and I'm just a little miffed that I've had several posts deleted or edited by the moderators over there which didn't contain any sensitve or inflammatory material at all.
Understandable. I can see them deleting "illegal" information, but not comments on non-inflammatory posts...
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Old 11-05-2003, 06:14 PM   #34
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Ok, to be fair here... the following is the reply from Rickmus, an official Raven employee, regarding the situation at Ravenforums...

Quote:
I deleted the thread as it contained rumors and speculations, as well as it didn't offer anything that hasn't been said before.

That post claiming it was an email from someone from Raven was a fake. I verified it with those in the know, and the info in that email is not accurate.

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Old 11-05-2003, 06:26 PM   #35
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so basicly, the bottum line of this thread is....we know jack squawt about a patch, when it will be released, what the changes are, and even at one point we did, that could have been changed!
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Old 11-05-2003, 06:36 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akshara
Ok, to be fair here... the following is the reply from Rickmus, an official Raven employee, regarding the situation at Ravenforums...
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I deleted the thread as it contained rumors and speculations, as well as it didn't offer anything that hasn't been said before.

That post claiming it was an email from someone from Raven was a fake. I verified it with those in the know, and the info in that email is not accurate.

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like maybe the people "in the know" are stupid idiots that made a mistake and now there trying to cover there arse...or maybe not...either way...if thats how they run there business...so be it...thats there mistake not any of ours. You should post that full e-mail including name if there going to play childish games...then again I could be way off.

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*edited* sorry, I know this is off-topic of the actually thread, as that I had no facts to contribute.
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Old 11-05-2003, 06:56 PM   #37
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uummmm... if its coming out in the new year (if thats true) then it probably because Xbox has it so you can play JA online, and they dont want the bug on XBOX because its impossible to patch it up...
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Old 11-05-2003, 06:59 PM   #38
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Go for it. As long as you don't go into the actual gameplay issues and such (WE KNOW ALREADY! DAMN IT!), I'm ok with it.


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Old 11-05-2003, 10:02 PM   #39
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Those posts were locked for the following reason:

- bashing on Raven just for the fun of it. Inform yourself first, find out who is responsible for the release of the patch, and then show your concern, instead of just bashing for the fun of it.

- 2-3 posts a day about the patch. I know that on these forums the same thing gets posted over and over, stuff like that does not happen on the Raven Forums. I allowed one thread to give bug info. I edited all posts that contained bug information that is more of a preference than a bug, and yes Akshara I disagree on 1! item that you told me that was not a bug. All the other remarks you made were considered legitimate remarks on your part and were removed from the bug list. I don't think you have any reason to complain.

- I did not know the mail was a fake. Therefor I contacted Raven and they handled it. Since the mail was a fake Kathy Bates was banned from the forums, since his/her contribution to the Raven Boards could be summarized as bashing and spreading false rumors about the release of a patch.

- I only moderate on forums of people I respect. I've been on the Raven Boards for a few years now, and in all those years they have never let us down. But appearantly a lot of you forget that a publisher makes the decisions, and not the developer. If you would only take a look at this thread : http://www.map-center.com/modules.ph...viewforum&f=25 then you would see that at Raven they do care about the community. If they don't give you information then there is a reason for that. So stop the bashing, it has no use and all it does is force me to click the close thread button.
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Old 11-05-2003, 10:34 PM   #40
razorace
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The developers do make a decision to sign these sort of all encompassing contracts in the first place. If they sign away all their rights and then can't fulfil their ethical obligation to at least have a functional game or meet their statements to their customers, they are also at fault.


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