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Old 05-02-2002, 01:40 AM   #1
NewBJedi
 
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Thumbs up Heavy Stance Complainers - Great news from DEV!!! Woot!!!

I sent them a suggestion and got this reply!

"Consider it forwarded. Just a note: the heavy stance has been tweaked heavily in the pending patch to balance it better.


--Kenn


Kenn Hoekstra
Project Administrator/
Director of Support Services
Raven Software Corporation
http://www.ravensoft.com/"

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Old 05-02-2002, 01:49 AM   #2
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Damn... I love the heavy stance


I AM KRALJ!!!
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Old 05-02-2002, 01:50 AM   #3
Stan_Tencza
 
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Hmm.

That must be a good feeling, that a petty, insignificant gamer such as yourself was actually listened to by a Ravensoft executive. Isn't that precious Thanks for the update, comrade.

-Stan
===================================


======================
How bout a Yoda Stories Mod for JkII???????
-Stan
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:43 AM   #4
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Don't give him that much credit. Its probably a formatted letter they send out to the HUNDREDS OF ****ING WHINERS like this they get every day. They probably have a whole TEAM of CS workers dedicated solely to respond to all the lamers.


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Old 05-02-2002, 02:46 AM   #5
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Gee, I post an update on a situation and I get flames.

At least Raven is nice enough to respond.

I'll bet Kenn actually did write that e-mail - especially since I write directly to his e-mail address. He was responding to a suggestion about scoring and Heavy Stance, not a complaint as such.

Why does it matter that he responded to me?

Isn't the important part is that they are aware and working on the Heavy Stance?

Sheesh . . . maybe I should stop posting updates at all.

BTW: I often communicate with dev teams and get responses.

I used to keep in touch with the MOH:AA producer before 2015 was let go.

P.S. Don't call me a whiner. I've been supporting this game since I got it - and have been criticizing the whiners. Don't believe me? Check the Game Feedback forum for my, now sticky thread Whiners Guide, etc.

Last edited by NewBJedi; 05-02-2002 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:59 AM   #6
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NewBJedi, Do not listen to these children on the boards, i've all but stopped reading them. I remember when this was a good community. Now its turned into a name calling extravaganza. I thank you very much for the update, i'm just sorry there are unappreciative children who are never happy with anything. :-(
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Old 05-02-2002, 03:02 AM   #7
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Arawyn,

Thank you.
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:56 AM   #8
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we love you man, thanks for the news
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:17 AM   #9
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YOU SIMPLY ROCK DUDE! Don't worry!


With the power of RA! Nah..go ta hell..
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:23 AM   #10
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NewB Jedi...you are the wind beneath my wings...you are my hero lol


Vestril was here!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:44 AM   #11
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Thanks guys!
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Old 05-02-2002, 06:16 AM   #12
NerfYoda
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Just you watch. I'm sure this patch coming will make heavy stance even more "unbalanced" just to see how many gripes they can generate.

Don't take me seriously. And now a song for NewBJedi, who is a glimmer of the old nice JK1 community:

Ohh NewB well you came and you gave without taking...
But I sent you away ohhh NewB...

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Old 05-02-2002, 09:02 AM   #13
subedii
 
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Gahh, what's wrong, everyones gone all NICE! If someone starts singing Kumbaya I am either leaving or bringing a flamethrower.

(BTW for those of you who CAN'T take a joke, yes I am glad that the heavy stance is getting tweaked)
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:11 AM   #14
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To solve everyones problems just make it like JK and cut out all the dam stances and super dfa moves etc... There no whining no complaining. Quick question Why did people in jk hate grip so much but now its ok to use it?

Raven should have beta tested this game like Warcraft3. Even up to now that game is being beta tested by players like you me and hackers I like this game dont get me wrong but there are way to many abusers in alot of the servers out there.

Sorry I just came out of a game where everyone was doing DFA's and you can only take so much of that in a night. Flame all you want who hate what i said but I like smores yay


Jumping from 300-800 mhz processor is a noticeable differance. Jumping from 800 to 2000, no differance.
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:41 AM   #15
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w

Heavy stance doesn't need tweaking. Lunge whores are a problem, but what about people who are actually skilled in using heavy? Mind you I can still kick it with medium, but why should other people be forced to learn a new style because you don't like it?
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:46 AM   #16
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Great job NewbJedi !


I myselve wrote an e-mail to an employee of ravensoft myself.

We had a conversation via e-mail. Got responses back within 1 minute!

Anyway check the "Unnoficial patch information" thread out here in the valley!


They say the combat issues have been fixed and that a patch is coming out, and i Quote: "Very very soon"


WOOOT!!!


edit: yehaa pit droid now
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Old 05-02-2002, 10:27 AM   #17
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I doubt they have changed any animatioins, so you wont have to re-learn it

Im thinking they toned down the damage a bit (mabye 90-95 instead of 100) and got rid of the huge amount of time after the swing where it is still dangerous

Can somone e-mail to see if theyve worked on hit detection for the lighbtsaber, just 2 nites ago i got killed by a guy using heavy that was no where near hitting me
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Old 05-02-2002, 10:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi-Bert
I doubt they have changed any animatioins, so you wont have to re-learn it

Im thinking they toned down the damage a bit (mabye 90-95 instead of 100) and got rid of the huge amount of time after the swing where it is still dangerous

Can somone e-mail to see if theyve worked on hit detection for the lighbtsaber, just 2 nites ago i got killed by a guy using heavy that was no where near hitting me

such a thing is called lag
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Old 05-02-2002, 10:41 AM   #19
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LOL

Quote:
Originally posted by Ascari
such a thing is called lag
Hehe.. Funny, Ascari

V-tecc
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Old 05-02-2002, 10:52 AM   #20
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I know this has been said before but....
I dont see how the heavy or red stance is a problem except that dfa move into the ground...but thats easily countered.

I play light & medium stances...the heavy is too slow or my tastes & the dfa move i just cant seem to get right maybe im on the jump key too lon i dont know....anyway back to the counter:

roll to the side then spin slash across his back...usually fatal unless they have full shield

I was dueling with one guy last night in an FFA server & he kept trying to dfa...i did the sidestep spin slash & cut him him up like 5 times in a row
dude called me a cheater, i laughed hard, he left

Im not even that good with a saber...i prefer guns & Push & Pull


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Old 05-02-2002, 11:06 AM   #21
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well if they are gonna tone it down then they better make it faster and make the recovery time less in order to compensate for the lack of power.
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:10 AM   #22
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Ascari-i wouldve thought that too, BUT

1. both of us had pings less than 80

2. he was moving AWAY from me, and I from him

EDIT: WOOHOO! no longer bantha fodder
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:11 AM   #23
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I bet they're just tweaking things, like the wind that kills you at times with the heavy saber and hit detection.

Before you say it's lag, I usually ping less than 50 where I play, and the people I'm fighting are mostly under 120 (odd person is over on the duel servers).

Heavy stance will remain heavy I'm sure, it'll just be slightly different, and the differences will probably affect all three stances in some way, shape, or form.


-----------------------------------------------

One of your resident Star Wars Geeks

The Way We See It
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:55 AM   #24
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Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Arawyn
I remember when this was a good community. Now its turned into a name calling extravaganza.

Lol, it happened within 2 weeks. It took cstrike a few months at least.


Who needs a brother anyway?
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:59 AM   #25
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Whoo hooo unlucky heavy whores!
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:02 PM   #26
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the people that play the games have changed, just as the games did.
when cs came out, just played it to play it, but nowadays many people just play it to say how crappy it is and that "their" game is waaaay better...
more people have nowadays access to broadband connections such as DSL, or at last ISDN which increased the number of the players that play just occasionally has increased as well, also increasing the number of "whiners"

just my two cents though.... (and OT too!)
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:11 PM   #27
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Well, I for one am glad to know that 1.) there's a patch in the making, and 2.) they're tweaking heavy stance. I hope they're also tweaking other things to add to game balance. NewB, any word from Kenn on the block/parry idea? Falkentyne and I were talking about this for a while, and I think it'd really add some complexity and depth to sabre fights if it was included. Also, any word on collision/hit detection/blocking? To my way of thinking, those three things (heavy stance, no real blocking, and collision detection) are what holds this game back for the time being.

I'll admit, up until this post, I'd kind of given up hope on JKII's multiplayer component ever really being that much fun for me. Now that there's a patch in the works, well, I won't be selling off my copy of the game just yet.

Now, for all you whiners out there who whine about whiners, here's a little cheese for you before you start pouring more whine. Personally, I hope that these tweaks and such are added as an ADDITIONAL mode of gameplay. All the various issues, such as the guns vs. force, the force imbalance, the red-stance-is-too-powerful, the make-mp-like-sp stuff, all of that, should be something that is optional for servers. This way, all you whiners who love to call OTHER people whiners won't have to actually whine about anything. You can just go play JKII the way you want, while the rest of us play the way we want. Everyone walks away happy. Anyway, that's my hope for what happens with this patch. But hey, if it works out for my side of the argument, and not for yours, I won't lose too much sleep.
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:18 PM   #28
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I hope they balance guns as well

If they are going to "balance" the heavy stance, they should also balance the guns alot more. I'm tired of being spammed by rocket launchers and especially that stupid unblockable electro-gun thing. It sucks when you are having a battle and some gunslinger comes along with an area effect weapon and kills 5 people at the same time. This ESPECIALLY sucks considering the fact that pulling the weapon out of their hand is so much harder than JK1. The only hope was getting close enought and doing a one-hit kill. Now if they "tone down" heavy stance that will be alot harder.

I would really like to see pulling guns alot easier and a choice that if you use guns you cannot use the force. Jedis don't use guns.

Brian Ellenberger
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:18 PM   #29
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Does no one understand the concept of heavy stance? I'm not defending it or arguing with people who hate it... I am just saying that if you:

.1
Make it faster

.2
Make it weaker

.3
Take away some of its range

then it would no longer be a "HEAVY" stance. The key word here is HEAVY... not light or medium, but heavy... hence the name "Heavy Stance".


Satan is my co-pilot.
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Old 05-02-2002, 12:19 PM   #30
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What was your suggestion NewB? Heh...
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Old 05-02-2002, 01:08 PM   #31
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Grip over the head cheese

NewBJedi,

Can you write the DEVs and ask them about the grip and hold above the head cheese move? The person gripped has no counter. Push and throw doesn't work.

They need to limit how far up you can raise someone when you grip them.
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Old 05-02-2002, 01:45 PM   #32
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My suggestion was:

Heavy Stance Scoring

Since one of the biggest complaints about heavy stance is that they can just simply swing and rack up the points, how about this:

A person who kills with a light stance gets twice the points as a medium, and medium twice the points as a heavy.

Basically a light stance person gets 4 times the points as a heavy stance person - so that person is rewarded for having to use skill.

Also, it doesn't seem possible to duel in CTF, Team DM, and other modes. It'd be neat if that could be possible - server side option. Often I run into the same guy over and over and a good duel would get our frustrations. =)

Thanks!
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Old 05-02-2002, 01:51 PM   #33
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Re: w

Quote:
Originally posted by NK_Zephorath
Heavy stance doesn't need tweaking. Lunge whores are a problem, but what about people who are actually skilled in using heavy? Mind you I can still kick it with medium, but why should other people be forced to learn a new style because you don't like it?
its not the fact we dont like it (which we dont) its the fact that it is totally unbalanced
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Old 05-02-2002, 01:59 PM   #34
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thx for the update newb, dont let the flamers get to you, there will always be people like that, anyone remember the old VBB, now that place was awful


Reversal@c4.com

May the force me with me.
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:17 PM   #35
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Quote:
Quick question Why did people in jk hate grip so much but now its ok to use it?
This is mainly do to the fact that in JK there where only a few ways to break grips hold... force jump or damage the gripper. Even when using absorb you would still be held in place and the gripper could easily kill you. Now you can't attack when you are gripping someone and absorb, push actually work... though damaging the gripper doesn't you actually have to kill them.

As to saber style balancing only thing I see wrong with dfa is it kills teammates in ctf... well any heavy stance can do that but dfa sends them rocketing in the air. Since I rarely do duals or saber only servers when someone starts to spam dfa I just go after someone else. If a whole team is spaming it, it is time to find another server.
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:28 PM   #36
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Re: Grip over the head cheese

Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi-TalonClaw
NewBJedi,

Can you write the DEVs and ask them about the grip and hold above the head cheese move? The person gripped has no counter. Push and throw doesn't work.

They need to limit how far up you can raise someone when you grip them.
Drain will lower that ability.

You should be force pushing or pulling them before it gets to the point where they can raise you off the ground (it doesn't happen right away) - or even saber throw at them for awhile.

Unless you are low in health and shields, a force grip, even when fully implemented won't kill you. You can still come back and get them or go for more health.

Sorry, I see too many ways to counter-act that. But you can feel free to write them about it if you wish.
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:44 PM   #37
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If you are playing a light jedi you have no drain.

Vs a gripper you are doomed if he drains you and then grabs you and lifts you over his head and then saber tosses you when you are coming down.

You can not saber toss down or push down. There is no counter.

It is cheese just like many think heavy stance is cheeze. But you can roll to counter the heavy stance 1 jump kill but a light jedi gripped and raised up will be killed on the way down.
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Old 05-02-2002, 02:58 PM   #38
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I'm not sure I agree with your scoring idea NewbJedi - surely it's just asking for people to cripple enemies with heavy and then finish them off with light to get the extra points.

Not that I have any cunning ways of balancing things myself, so I shouldn't really complain.
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Old 05-02-2002, 03:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi-TalonClaw
If you are playing a light jedi you have no drain.

Vs a gripper you are doomed if he drains you and then grabs you and lifts you over his head and then saber tosses you when you are coming down.

You can not saber toss down or push down. There is no counter.

It is cheese just like many think heavy stance is cheeze. But you can roll to counter the heavy stance 1 jump kill but a light jedi gripped and raised up will be killed on the way down.
There's always a point in a battle where it's too late to save yourself.

For that matter.. a person can grip you over a ledge and your life is in his hands. If he lets go or the grip is over, you are dead either way. Should that be removed too?

When a person gets you to the point you are choking, your best move is to move very fast as soon as he lets go, or force push him out of the way - which isn't too difficult.

Anyhow, that's my opinion - that if you let him get to the point of choking you, you aren't managing your neutral or light force powers well enough. If you die from the choke, than you aren't managing your health well enough.

There's a point where you have to take some responsibility for dying at the hands of another.

Also, being that I enjoy playing a Sith, I'm biased.

I often force drain people, kick them around, and choke them to death or make them linger off ledges while I smile at their torment.

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Old 05-02-2002, 03:47 PM   #40
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Yeah so you are biased and not interested in balance. You've lost my faith in you.

The guy who drained, gripped us and raised us up did it immediately. There was no time to counter it.

Yeah ok the grip over a chasm is cool and you can choose to play duels on maps where they cant do that. But you can't counter the overhead grip and it needs to be tweaked.

Otherwise I could say I'm biased and the heavy stance is fine the way it is. Who cares about balance if it gives my play style an edge. You see what I am saying. Balance is balance. Not bias.



Quote:
Originally posted by NewBJedi


There's always a point in a battle where it's too late to save yourself.

For that matter.. a person can grip you over a ledge and your life is in his hands. If he lets go or the grip is over, you are dead either way. Should that be removed too?

When a person gets you to the point you are choking, your best move is to move very fast as soon as he lets go, or force push him out of the way - which isn't too difficult.

Anyhow, that's my opinion - that if you let him get to the point of choking you, you aren't managing your neutral or light force powers well enough. If you die from the choke, than you aren't managing your health well enough.

There's a point where you have to take some responsibility for dying at the hands of another.

Also, being that I enjoy playing a Sith, I'm biased.

I often force drain people, kick them around, and choke them to death or make them linger off ledges while I smile at their torment.

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