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Old 05-02-2002, 03:48 PM   #41
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I don't have as much of a problem with the darkside powers as it seems a lot of people do, but I do think that absorb needs to be beefed up to counter it. Currently, walking around with a blue glow is just a dead giveaway to anyone who plays darkside not to use force powers on you. The way I see it, there are a couple of options for balancing absorb.

1.) Make it so that absorb doesn't have the blue glow. That way no one knows if you have it turned on or not. This is not much of a real solution, though, since it'd probably just lead to a lot of darksiders simply not using force powers much, which would lead to them getting pissed and not playing the game. Potentially, anyway.

2.) Make absorb a "passive" force power like blocking. This could work two ways. (1) the reaction speed is directly related to what level you have it at. IE: someone with level 1 automatically turns on absorb slower than someone with level 2 or 3. or (2) it turns on at the same speed, but loses force power faster at lower levels, and loses force power constantly when being used. IE: a person comes up to you and drains you, you have absorb at level two. It'll basically only delay the effects of the drain. So basically, if you start out with less mana than the other guy, if he drains you, you'll be able to last longer and leave him with less mana than if you didn't have anything assigned to absorb, but at the end of the drain, he'd still have mana left, and you wouldn't. At level 2, this effect would be reduced, and at level 3, if drained by a level three darksider, you'd end up with barely more mana than he'd have. So, you'd maybe have enough for one force jump, or a short sabre throw, or maybe a weak push.

3.) Nerf drain. I don't personally like the idea of this but it prevents people from just draining, gripping, and dropping the other person. Frankly, I like beefing up absorb rather than nerfing drain, because of the underlying message that it sends. Nerfing drain kind of sends the message that people who pick darkside are being punished for just playing the game. I don't think that's right. I mean, yeah, the darkside's evil, but we shouldn't necessarily punish one side of the force. Rather, putting lightside users on level ground might work a bit better, because it's sort of like saying, "Oh yeah, we did kind of screw you over. sorry about that." Instead of saying, "BAD DARKSIDER!! NO DRAIN FOR YOU!!"
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Old 05-02-2002, 03:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi-TalonClaw
Yeah so you are biased and not interested in balance. You've lost my faith in you.
I don't see why you would have 'faith in me' in the first place. Why would you need faith in me at all? Do you always lose this 'faith' in people over a simple disagreement?

Balance is always a question of opinion. I have rarely been drain/gripped to death myself, but I know how to avoid it. If someone drains me I keep my distance until my force is restored, or I charge them with a lot of kicks and rolls and go in for the kill.

It's very difficult for a person to get a 'grip' on you when you are always moving and forcing him/her on the defensive.

The whole Heavy Stance balance issue already exists in my opinion - there are ways to avoid it and it's challenging. I merely started this topic to show people who want 'more balance' (their opinion of it) that it will exist in the next patch.

Quote:
The guy who drained, gripped us and raised us up did it immediately. There was no time to counter it.
See above and .. if you use force absorb at the right time, I believe drain will have zero effect. Once you know a person uses the drain/grip method, you can avoid that with proper use of absorb, force push/pull, kick, saber, etc.

Quote:
Yeah ok the grip over a chasm is cool and you can choose to play duels on maps where they cant do that. But you can't counter the overhead grip and it needs to be tweaked.
Again, see above.

Quote:
Otherwise I could say I'm biased and the heavy stance is fine the way it is. Who cares about balance if it gives my play style an edge. You see what I am saying. Balance is balance. Not bias.
Yep, balance is balance - a great lesson in tautology.

Otherwise, if you make yourself vulnerable due to force mismanagement or bad strategic moves on your part, that's not a balance issue, it's a personal problem.

You haven't offered a solution to the grip overhead situation, you've only complained about it.
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:03 PM   #43
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HAHAHA suck it strong stance whores.

FINALLY A BALANCED GAME


WOOOO HOOOO
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:20 PM   #44
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You didn't read my first post where I do offer a solution to the grip problem. Limit how high you can raise someone with grip so that they can still use force push. Don't let them raise you directly over their head. That's not changing grip that much. Just taking away the cheese.

You offered yourself up as someone who was interested in balance and someone who communicates with the DEVs. Now you say you are biased. That's why I now have a lack of faith in you. Do you not see the value in a balanced game?

Quote:
Originally posted by NewBJedi


I don't see why you would have 'faith in me' in the first place. Why would you need faith in me at all? Do you always lose this 'faith' in people over a simple disagreement?

Balance is always a question of opinion. I have rarely been drain/gripped to death myself, but I know how to avoid it. If someone drains me I keep my distance until my force is restored, or I charge them with a lot of kicks and rolls and go in for the kill.

It's very difficult for a person to get a 'grip' on you when you are always moving and forcing him/her on the defensive.

The whole Heavy Stance balance issue already exists in my opinion - there are ways to avoid it and it's challenging. I merely started this topic to show people who want 'more balance' (their opinion of it) that it will exist in the next patch.



See above and .. if you use force absorb at the right time, I believe drain will have zero effect. Once you know a person uses the drain/grip method, you can avoid that with proper use of absorb, force push/pull, kick, saber, etc.



Again, see above.



Yep, balance is balance - a great lesson in tautology.

Otherwise, if you make yourself vulnerable due to force mismanagement or bad strategic moves on your part, that's not a balance issue, it's a personal problem.

You haven't offered a solution to the grip overhead situation, you've only complained about it.
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:26 PM   #45
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The way I see it, they're the developers and they can do what they want with their product.

While I myself didn't have a problem with the Strong stance as is, I can accept their decision if they do indeed patch it as they seem to be doing.

At least they aren't doing what some extremists are calling for, which is to remove guns or force gun users to be forceless or slow down movement speed for gunners. Those kinds of things would totally ruin the game, period.

reducing the speed or damage or whatever they plan to do with one lightsaber stance would be fine. There's no need for flames either way. I'm sure if they want to keep something, no amount of begging and whining from the fans will cause them to change it. After all, I'm sure the number of people buying the game who don't complain is infinitely higher than the ones who buy and nitpick.
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:48 PM   #46
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Re: Re: w

Quote:
Originally posted by D'akt Sangwar
its not the fact we dont like it (which we dont) its the fact that it is totally unbalanced
I notice that everyone is saying that it is "unbalanced". No it isn't... you have the ability to block it. Heavy stance is stronger and knocks down the light stance... so when you see someone using it, you have the "ability" to change your stance so it isn't easily knocked down.

The only way you can call it "unbalanced" is if this were a class based game and one class couldn't "use" it. Lets say it was classed as only the dark force users could use the Heavy Stance... then I can see how you could call it unbalanced because the light force users wouldn't have a stance to block it. However the game isn't that way and everyone is allowed the ability to switch to the heavy stance.

I do not use it all the time, but when I encounter someone that is... I switch to that stance. It is as simple as that! I can't blame the game or the developers when I choose a "known" weakness to the stong stance and get killed.


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Old 05-02-2002, 04:54 PM   #47
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Well, this change sounds fairly disappointing to me. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the heavy stance as it is, it serves the purpose it's supposed to. Anyone who uses it intelligently and with skill is just as hard/easy to beat as someone who uses another stance, the tactics just change. Anyone who doesn't know what they're doing and spams a move or a swing all over the place will get the occaisional lucky kill but is, 9 times out of 10, much easier to kill than someone who actually knows what the hell they're doing.

As far as I'm concerned the game is balanced. But I've played a hell of a lot of poorly-balanced games in my life so maybe it's a biased opinion of what balance is. I do feel, however, that any reduction in the damage dealt by the heavy stance will severely unbalance force heal. Slowing it down would also throw it off balance... there's a ton of down time between slashes on which you can capitalize if you're fighting a heavy stance user.

But it's not my choice whether this game changes or not.
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Old 05-02-2002, 04:59 PM   #48
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Yes we are the minority. Way more people play single player and never get on the Internet.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
I'm sure the number of people buying the game who don't complain is infinitely higher than the ones who buy and nitpick.
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:02 PM   #49
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Ok, here's the deal. It doe'snt matter how much they yweak or add with the patch. Who knows, Raven could end up fixing 90% of all the things we have been griping about the past month. -One fact remains, there will still be all the kiddie whiners and flamers here at the JK2 forum. Don't get me wrong, there's quite a few of you here that are very cool abd act yur age. But also, I notice way too much kiddie flaming and bickering. Way too many smart-ass children here without any supervision from thier mommy and/or daddy! -Anyway, my point being.........no matter what Raven fixes/adds w/ the patch, peeps will just complain about a new list of gripes after it's released! -All these lamers will nitpick at the patch and there will be 50 instant whining/griping threads the 1st damn day. Hell, only one tidbit of official info regarding the tweaking of the heavy-stance and there are already numerous whining going on on how thats unfair First mostly everyone here gripes and b!tches about heavy-stance being too much and now that we have official word that it may be fixed w/ the patch and now you peeps are b!tching about that!! -Get a life you freakin' kiddies!
--If Raven dev ended up curing all the MP issues w/ JK2 with the patch release there would still be 30-40 threads with nothing but whining and b!tching about how the patch sucks. Grow up people and for all the kiddies here.......go find yourselves a gaming junior-forum! ----There's my rant! -I'm so disgusted with how most of the members act here at the JK2 forum. It's a real embarressment to the Veteren JK1 community and to the 'sensible' members of the JK2 community as well. Just plain sad all the flaming and bickering that goes on here.
--Anyway, ...just my .02. -I'm gone, ~S!TH


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Old 05-02-2002, 05:06 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jedi-TalonClaw
[B]You didn't read my first post where I do offer a solution to the grip problem. Limit how high you can raise someone with grip so that they can still use force push. Don't let them raise you directly over their head. That's not changing grip that much. Just taking away the cheese.
I didn't notice that solution, my apologies.

You solution involves nerfing grip. That changes the potential of grip quite a bit - it can never be used to move a person around in that sense or ever used to actually kill someone.

How about letting them raise you that high but you can still force push yourself out of it? I don't like that idea either - I'd rather see forces used intelligently, not automatically.

So you want balance?

How about this:

If someone force pushes you off a ledge, you can shoot out a grapple hook and come back.

If someone force drains you, you can put up a shield that will bounce it back.

If someone uses force lightening, you can shoot a water sprinkler that will cause them to be electrocuted.

If someone force kicks you, you can pull out a bean bag that bounces them back.

Yah, let's put all these things in for balance!

Let's completely remove any strategy and player responsibility and cause it to be all self-automated defenses.

How much balance do you want?

Quote:
You offered yourself up as someone who was interested in balance and someone who communicates with the DEVs. Now you say you are biased. That's why I now have a lack of faith in you. Do you not see the value in a balanced game?
As for reading posts.

First, read the title of this thread - does you see balance mentioned?

Read, the message I posted, in this thread, starting with:

"My suggestion was:" ...

Also, I have mentioned about what I think is unbalanced about the Heavy Stance, but I believe the major problem isn't the balance itself, but the scoring system. That's just my opinion.

But see, I disagree with you about grip being unbalanced and therefore everything I will ever say is futile and pointless - because of that 'one' issue.

1. I really don't care what you feel about me.

2. People will disagree with you in life, good luck.
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:21 PM   #51
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You do not need to raise someone directly over your head to throw them or drop them off the ledge.

The Dark Jedi raising a Light Jedi directly over their head makes the Light Jedi totally defensless in a duel. Lets give the Light Jedi something equal then.

Not allowing you to raise them directly above their head is not nerfing the dark jedi. The Dark Jedi can still pick you up and throw you.

Or allow force push or saber throw downward. Why can't I throw my saber down at the gripper?
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:23 PM   #52
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I believe the whole point is by the time you are choking, there is little you can do.

Solution: Don't get to that point in time.

Do you want it so no one can fully drain you, or fully kill you with lightening, or fully force push you, or fully force pull you and saber down?

Where's the limit?

In fact, I don't see you complaining about force pull, which is more difficult to avoid than grip.

Once someone is close enough and force pulls you, there is NOTHING you can do about it - just hope to jump out of the situation if they miss and don't kill you with a lunge.

Or you can avoid it before it happens.

Just like any situation - use your brain - that's what makes JK2 so great. You actually have to think ahead.

S!TH!NAT0R is right.
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Old 05-02-2002, 05:34 PM   #53
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Try playing a Light Jedi vs a gripper and you will see my point.
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Old 05-02-2002, 06:14 PM   #54
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You don't know the power of the dark side!



It is your deeeeeeeeeeeeeestiny.
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Old 05-02-2002, 06:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Ok, here's the deal. It doe'snt matter how much they yweak or add with the patch. Who knows, Raven could end up fixing 90% of all the things we have been griping about the past month. -One fact remains, there will still be all the kiddie whiners and flamers here at the JK2 forum. Don't get me wrong, there's quite a few of you here that are very cool abd act yur age. But also, I notice way too much kiddie flaming and bickering. Way too many smart-ass children here without any supervision from thier mommy and/or daddy! -Anyway, my point being.........no matter what Raven fixes/adds w/ the patch, peeps will just complain about a new list of gripes after it's released! -All these lamers will nitpick at the patch and there will be 50 instant whining/griping threads the 1st damn day. Hell, only one tidbit of official info regarding the tweaking of the heavy-stance and there are already numerous whining going on on how thats unfair First mostly everyone here gripes and b!tches about heavy-stance being too much and now that we have official word that it may be fixed w/ the patch and now you peeps are b!tching about that!! -Get a life you freakin' kiddies!
--If Raven dev ended up curing all the MP issues w/ JK2 with the patch release there would still be 30-40 threads with nothing but whining and b!tching about how the patch sucks. Grow up people and for all the kiddies here.......go find yourselves a gaming junior-forum! ----There's my rant! -I'm so disgusted with how most of the members act here at the JK2 forum. It's a real embarressment to the Veteren JK1 community and to the 'sensible' members of the JK2 community as well. Just plain sad all the flaming and bickering that goes on here.
--Anyway, ...just my .02. -I'm gone, ~S!TH
I don't think that Raven is going to fix all of the issues that people gripe about, only the issues that genuinely lead to imbalance. I don't believe that they will patch it to the whims of all of the people who whine about the strategies that they have a hard time countering.

For example--DFA, there really isn't any imbalance to this move, its just a little buggy, it kills you without getting anywhere near you and can kill you after its been buried into the ground. I, like many people, was annoyed by this, but then learned the timing of the move so I can run in and get a good chop at their heads.

I also wanted to say that whining and complaining and expressing your 'disgust' about the behavior of this comunity only adds to the problem, I admit that I had to learn that lesson too, but perhaps instead of complaining you should try to set a good example. Just my way of thinking .


Vestril was here!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-02-2002, 08:16 PM   #56
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the fact is, it oftentimes hard to see clearly what parts of the game is 'unbalanced' since people will always have different opinions and biases, which is quite natural.

for example, IMHO I believe heavy should stay as it is except for the sometimes buggy collission detection and DFA....anyone can also say that grip is too powerful, and of course; the ones who uses grip would defend it naturally.

the important thing is we should respect each others' opinions and views. i'm not saying that we should agree with them, but at least we should not resort to flaming / insulting and name calling just because someone doesn't share our view. in the end, only raven themselves will judge what is unbalanced or not.

peace.
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Old 05-02-2002, 08:23 PM   #57
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Well said 7th, I totally agree with you and couldn't have said it better myself (and I tried lol)


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Old 05-02-2002, 08:24 PM   #58
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There is a problem with people lunging across entire maps. BUT that's no reason to screw over the rest of the community and get the strong stance messed up.

Assuming the people who are complaining use medium and/or light exclusively, how would you feel if techniques that you have perfected or almost perfected using them were suddenly messed with so that they were less effective? I'm sure you wouldn't like it too much would you?

If that does happen I'll just blow all the whiners up with a rocket launcher each time to give them something else to whine about!


BTW, I just got an email back from Kenn Hoekstra, but since I have no permission to repost what he said I won't. Anyway what he said makes it sound like the only things that will be fixed are bugs with the stance not the actual stance and what the complainers are complaing about!!!
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Old 05-02-2002, 08:48 PM   #59
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thanks again NewBJedi :P


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Old 05-02-2002, 08:59 PM   #60
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The only problems I see are the sometimes buggy damage detection and the DFA kills when the saber is in the ground. Other than that, there's nothing in the game I really think needs to be fixed.
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Old 05-02-2002, 09:43 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rogue74
BTW, I just got an email back from Kenn Hoekstra, but since I have no permission to repost what he said I won't. Anyway what he said makes it sound like the only things that will be fixed are bugs with the stance not the actual stance and what the complainers are complaing about!!!
I don't think he minds. Just post it.

Did he say for your eyes only?

I told him I'd post this and he didn't object.
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Old 05-03-2002, 01:40 AM   #62
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Little do you know that by tweaked, they are switching normal heavy stance out for Desann's heavy stance :P

But on a serious note, I hope that they dont muck it up that badly. I dont use heavy often, but the only thing seriously wrong is that the DFA does damage when stuck in the ground. Patch that out and people who do nothing but DFA will get owned if they missed because people will be able to run in and slash while the saber is in the ground.

Frankly I'm more concerned about drain and heal balancing than the saber bugs.
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Old 05-03-2002, 01:45 AM   #63
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NewBJedi, Do not listen to these children on the boards, i've all but stopped reading them. I remember when this was a good community. Now its turned into a name calling extravaganza. I thank you very much for the update, i'm just sorry there are unappreciative children who are never happy with anything. :-(

yeah bingo. now due to the majory of lamers, whiners, and people who dont know how to effectively counter the heavy stance, its getting nerfed. learn how to play the game before whining. i think DFA is the only thing that needs to be tweaked, and if heavy stance becomes useless in the next patch, some heads are gonna roll.

edit - and yeah, i think your name is "NewbJedi" for a good reason.


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Old 05-03-2002, 07:21 PM   #64
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Ok, well if anyone objects it's NewBJedi's fault

First email:

"Perhaps "tweaked heavily" was an overstatement. There were some errors with the radius damage, etc. the attack did that were adjusted. We're not fundamentally changing it...just fixing some things we missed in the original incarnation."

Second:

"No problem. The message I wanted to convey was that we're aware of the problem and trying to fix it. I didn't want to make it sound like we were cutting the legs out from under it, so to speak. "
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Old 05-03-2002, 07:59 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubMerged
NewBJedi, Do not listen to these children on the boards, i've all but stopped reading them. I remember when this was a good community. Now its turned into a name calling extravaganza. I thank you very much for the update, i'm just sorry there are unappreciative children who are never happy with anything. :-(

yeah bingo. now due to the majory of lamers, whiners, and people who dont know how to effectively counter the heavy stance, its getting nerfed. learn how to play the game before whining. i think DFA is the only thing that needs to be tweaked, and if heavy stance becomes useless in the next patch, some heads are gonna roll.

edit - and yeah, i think your name is "NewbJedi" for a good reason.
Is that last line an insult or a compliment?
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Old 05-03-2002, 09:29 PM   #66
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The idea IS good, but you're forgetting the newbies who go into a melee spinning like tops and scoring the odd kill Do you REALLY want to reward them for that tactic? Because that is what would happen unfortunately.

The downside of the scoring tactic is that it would make light stance the "required" stance - everyone who wanted to score any significant number of points would HAVE to use it - and a lucky moron spinning crazily with blue would score as much or more as a skilled person with red choosing and placing their blows (like I try to do).

The DFA move IS powerful, and it IS easy to do (I just cannot master that blasted yellow special :< ), but when someone starts spamming the move you counter it. Simple as that. Dodge and kill when they are recovering. It does require timing and it will go wrong (due to relative latencies). When I teach a newbie I make sure they understand that once they have the hang of the move, they do not overuse it or rely on it because it is seen as lame, is easy to counter (I try and drum counter tactics in too) and will ultimately cause them to lose. If you promote one stance above the others then you will simply be asking for the same things to be said later about that one instead.

I do have one small burning question though: Can you give the email addy of the guy you emailed? I have an urgent bug to report that needs fixing (and it really does!), which is essentially a cheat allowing for "free" force powers. As a result I am loath to actually post the details on the board (it is undetecable if used, as it is part of the game). Send it to me by email (kieren_smith@hotmail.com) for preference please.
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Old 05-03-2002, 09:42 PM   #67
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This is pretty good for the people who swing like mindless idiots, but dont you think its unrealistic to ALWAYS be swinging?


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Old 05-04-2002, 03:20 AM   #68
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I'm sick of all these newbs/whores defending Heavy Stance.

I know because I used it before I realized how much of a joke it was.

It is unbalanced totally. It has longer range and more power. The Slower swing doesn't mean dick. Any decent player knows how to swing while keeping their saber pointing at the other player for the duration of the swing. Keeping them far enough at bay by the time they try to get in you can swing again.

This unbalance is why light stance totally sucks (aside from 2 pretty special moves)
I would like to have it balanced so light stance was not usless.


This is all related, the lighter the stance the less power and range.

.
People who complain about it see the unbalance, its sad that you can't.
Do you ever see posts about light stance being overpowered?
No and for a good reason.

If all the saber stances were balanced wouldn't all these "whiners" whine about every stance?

For the people who defend DFA well your just kidding yourself.

If you attempt the one-hit one kill move there are no drawbacks.
You miss, well you don't have to worry. Just turn your saber in the ground and hope they are dumb enough to approach you. If they don't just try again. No worries.

Shouldn't there be drawbacks to using a one-hit one kill move?
bahh its not even worth discussing. I hope it gets totally nerfed.

The past 2 days I join a server, soon 3 or 4 people are heavy stance start whoring. Everyone leaves WOO HOO that was fun thanks for ruining everones game. I don't say **** I just leave.

Now for the obvious replies to come like they always do. I'll just awnser them now.

Ohh I have no problem owning heavy stance users
You can own heavy stance players but it takes one of 2 things.
1. You are 10 times better than they are.
2. They are just really bad padawans.

I can beat them but it takes a lot of work since they mostly play defensively. And usually I just barely beat them. AFter landing like 3 hits and they have landed 1 hit.

I use lightstance and I own ass Well........... BS. I have heard this crap before. If you use light stance especially in NF games you will get the beat down of your life.

If you think I'm wrong please I BEG YOU give me the server IP of where you play. PLEASE. Give me this magical server IP where heavy stance doesn't own, and light stance can hold its own.
I have been playing since its realease and I have seen nothing of the sort.

Im not holding my breath.
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Old 05-04-2002, 03:37 AM   #69
SPY_jmr1
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tree noone gives a ****.... give it up.... you have shown that you either cant or wont read posts and i dont even know why i am responding to this drival...

oh and incase you are wondering if this is a flame? oh yeah..... you got it. all flame. ask me if i care. you dont seem to.
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Old 05-04-2002, 04:05 AM   #70
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ok, there are a few key items that need to be fixed with the DFA move, other than that, strong is fine. let me start off my rant by saying i exclusively use medium style.

1. you SHOULD NOT be able to turn your body while lunging. it would be easy to counter if they couldn't turn while in the air; but the fact remains, that if i side-step, they just turn to have the saber facing me, i can't approach them to attack.

2. the move should not do full damage when the sabre is in the ground, at max it should do half damage if any more than the normal collision-non-swing hit.

3. the hit-box needs to be cleaned up on this. i have countered-had DFA'ers fly by me, land, i run up behind them, start to slash and die on their saber which is 180 degrees opposite them, and in the ground no-less. same for side. sometimes they miss, never connecting, but i die.

4. this move seems too easy to do, and do repeatedly for the damage it does. the medium special is excruciatingly difficult to land and doesn't do as much damage. most of the time when i actually get the medium special to work in the middle of a battle, either land on someone's head and do no damage, or it performs to far away from people and i swing at nothing.


With that said, i found the best counter is to give them no quarter. once they lunge once, roll towards them then force pull, start attacking, if they roll away follow suit. maintain your distance of 1-2 saber lengths or less away from your target. oh and as a courtesy for being so lame, pull em to the ground and sweep em with your back turned. i'm sure they'll be happy yo have died to a target which would have been extremely vulnerable if they were to get up.

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Old 05-04-2002, 04:35 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kincade
3. the hit-box needs to be cleaned up on this. i have countered-had DFA'ers fly by me, land, i run up behind them, start to slash and die on their saber which is 180 degrees opposite them, and in the ground no-less. same for side. sometimes they miss, never connecting, but i die.
Good list you made but I suggest reading the entire thread, this issue is being covered by dev.
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:09 AM   #72
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Well, there goes all of sabering. I associate the heavy stance with elegance and skill. The other two stances are just random, furious swings that are just thrown out there.

Now we can all be the spinning tops that everyone want to be.

I stopped playing JO for a month and come back and its great again, now when this patch comes I will have to stop because the fun shall be totally lost.

Enjoy the rest of your game.
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:12 AM   #73
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Um, they are basically making it so when you heavy stance kill you have to 'touch the person' instead of being able to hit them from 3 feet away.

You call that a problem?
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:12 AM   #74
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mIRC, how can you be so certain that it will be so bad? It could be major tweaking of the things that are buggy about heavy, like the fact that it can kill you without hitting you...or the fact that DFA does damage well past the time it should. Maybe you should calm down and have a little faith in the people that created this awesome game


Vestril was here!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:24 AM   #75
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I've never had instances where I've gotten hit 3 feet away.

I've never had instances where the damage would take its toll much later.

i'll play with alot of people who use heavy stance including me. We don't complain at all. Infact, i can defeat heavy stance users with the other two stances.

But...

Now that it'll be changed heavy stance will be useless. Everyone will swing wildly, skilless, as if they were spinning tops.

This isn't entertaining.

This isn't fun.

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Old 05-04-2002, 06:27 AM   #76
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How are you certain the patch will end up that way?

Did you consult Madame Cleo or Sylvia Browne?

Edit: Just realized Vestril said the same thing.



Also, click here:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthrea...threadid=49752
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:36 AM   #77
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You fail to understand what most of these people are actually whining about.

The heavy stance special move is easily dodged. Are you guys aware of strafing? Are you guys aware that you can literally get the persons saber stuck in the ground for a good 10 seconds after the move?

I'm doubting you guys have any skill except for a bumrush of drunken swings.

Also, very, very, very few people will not update. Then you take out those very, very, few and subtract the people who don't host a server(s).
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:41 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by mIRC
You fail to understand what most of these people are actually whining about.
I think we fail to understand what *you* are whining about.

Because, *you* don't understand what the patch will do.

If you read the entire thread you would have saw this - Raven dev has been writing to this person:

"Rogue74
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Registered: Apr 2002
Location:
Posts: 58

"Ok, well if anyone objects it's NewBJedi's fault

First email:

"Perhaps "tweaked heavily" was an overstatement. There were some errors with the radius damage, etc. the attack did that were adjusted. We're not fundamentally changing it...just fixing some things we missed in the original incarnation."

Second:

"No problem. The message I wanted to convey was that we're aware of the problem and trying to fix it. I didn't want to make it sound like we were cutting the legs out from under it, so to speak. "
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:43 AM   #79
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Read it again. I'm talking about what people are whining about except in the very lest sentence.
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:46 AM   #80
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Why does it matter what people are whining about?

Dev is only fixing technical problems with heavy stance, not changing its basic function.
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