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Old 05-07-2002, 06:28 PM   #1
ChangKhan[RAVEN]
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Make MP skins with different surfaces on/off

This way you can make a skin for Jan that doesn't have the vest or chaps on, you can make a bald jedi, etc...

http://www.jediknightii.net/files/in...nk=file&id=223


Michael Chang Gummelt
Game Programmer
Jedi Academy
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Old 05-07-2002, 06:37 PM   #2
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Chang, you are my hero!!!!!! I've been hoping for this for a long time. You've given us skinners a huge boost in what we can do! Would you hold it against me if I said I love you? heheh.

I hope you haven't been reading the Patch thread elsewhere in this forum. There is a lot of silly stuff being said, including things like Raven doesn't care about us or listen to us. What you do for us makes the people that say that look like idiots. This is something we've been hoping for, and you have provided. I can honestly say Raven is the best software development company I've ever run into.

BradFu!


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Old 05-07-2002, 07:46 PM   #3
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and will it also be seen by others in a game?
the changes u made i mean?
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Old 05-07-2002, 09:33 PM   #4
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It's an adjustment to the whole concept of skinning, so if they have the skin including the .surf files, they will see the changes.

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Old 05-07-2002, 10:30 PM   #5
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nice thing. couldn't that be fixed easier by just using a .tga of 10x10 px size and full transparency being applied to the parts i don't want to be visible?

at all, do you guys think about releasing a set of wiremeshes for the default mp models?
as most of newbie skinners won't start with an sdk of a model in progress, this would be a good chance for them to get in touch with skinning on a base they can easily see their results.
skinning without proper meshes is an awful thing. actually, it's more trial and error than painting.

g.

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Old 05-07-2002, 11:14 PM   #6
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Well, the problem with just making the surfaces invisible is that in many cases, it chops a huge chunk of the body off. Jan, for example. If you make her chaps just invisible, she gets chopped in half with no hips or waist. But if you use a .surf, you can turn off the stuff you don't want, and if the model includes alternates like the Jan model does, you turn those on. There may also be an advantage in polygons. If the model is loaded without those surfaces, it might not load those shapes at all and make it load somewhat faster. Dunno if that's accurate or not, but being able to turn the surfaces on and off is definitely worth while.

I'm already working on a new female Jedi using these new concepts


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Old 05-08-2002, 12:07 AM   #7
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confuzzled

I'm confused . Will the edited model be visable to other people in multiplayer or only to yourself and other people with it.


-Andee


DoNt tIcK Me oFf, I aM rUnNinG oUt Of PlAcEs tO hIdE tHe BoDy!
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Old 05-08-2002, 12:18 AM   #8
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Re: confuzzled

Quote:
Originally posted by andee_dean
I'm confused . Will the edited model be visable to other people in multiplayer or only to yourself and other people with it.
Just like all other skins, the edited model will be visible to only those with the skin on their computer. This new concept is just part of skinning, where you can not only change the images making up the model's skin, but also turn off some of the protruding accessories. Everyone still has to have that skin installed.

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Old 05-08-2002, 11:49 AM   #9
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I'm planning a new character so I could test the new surface thing. I don't know why I'm telling you this but I'm just happy of the new improvements. yay...everybody poke smot.
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Old 05-08-2002, 05:26 PM   #10
ChangKhan[RAVEN]
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Quote:
Originally posted by BradFu
Dunno if that's accurate or not, but being able to turn the surfaces on and off is definitely worth while.
I was about to reply, but that's exactly right!

And, to others asking: this is just like any other skin, if others have it, they'll see it, if not... they won't.


Michael Chang Gummelt
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Old 05-08-2002, 05:59 PM   #11
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Using this new method, I created a female Jedi (Jaina Solo, as she is in NJO), and I'm very happy with it I kept the vest and belt on, turned the other stuff off, and I think it looks very snazzy. As soon as I can figure out the Bot stuff, I'll submit it to the files section. The interesting thing is, there is a Jaina bot file built in to the assets0.pk3. I'm going to just use that if I can figure out how Anybody have any good bot tutorials?

Anyway, the Surface On/Off thing works great, gives us a lot more options, I'm very happy!

BradFu!


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Old 05-09-2002, 12:13 AM   #12
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working in game

hey bradfu,

have you got your changes to reflect in the actual game, whether it be single or multi?

i can see the changes in the model viewer program when i load the wvs (?) script.

i can see changes in the game if i edit npcs.cfg file but im not sure how to do it so that in sp or mp using the surf and wvs files? do you have any ideas?

~* beau *~
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Old 05-09-2002, 04:13 AM   #13
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Yep, I've used my new skin in multiplayer, works great. Here's how it works essentially: For every .skin file you have, you also do a .surf file (ie, you have a model_default.skin, you need a model_default.surf). These .surf files are in the same directory as the rest of your skin. You don't edit npcs.cfg, you just use the chunk of code in the npcs.cfg that controls surfaces. Here's an example of the entirety of what your .surf file would contain:

surfOff "hips_chaps torso_computer head_goggles torso_comp hips_belt l_hand_watch"
surfOn "hips_augment_off"


That's all. Find the surfaces you want on and off in ModView, test them in there, then specify them in the .surf file. If the .surf file is properly written, you should see the modifications if you can see your skin in general.

You don't need the .wvs files in the skin itself for gameplay, those are simply used in ModView to save any settings you've made in ModView to the model (ie, turned off Jan's chaps, then write a .wvs file, so next time you view the jan model, you can go Read Script that file and it will load your view settings). When you pack your skin for distribution, don't include the .wvs.

Hope that explains it for you

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Old 05-09-2002, 08:43 AM   #14
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hmmm little more help :D

just wondering if you wouldnt mind posting the contents of the pk3 file i should have

at the moment, i have

models\players\character
botfiles\ ----- which has bots.txt and character.jkb
scripts\ ----- which has character.bot
sound\chars\character\misc

this is whats in the model dir:
model.glm, model_blue/red, model_default.skin, model_default.surf and skins and some more

any ideas?

ADDITIONAL INFO xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I just removed my surf file and put the surfOff and surfOn into my character {} in the npcs.cfg file in my pk3 file and it worked. therefore i dont think my surf file is being read or accessed at all?

my model_default.surf contains.........

surfOff "l_hand_wrist l_hand"
surfOn "l_arm_cap_l_hand_off"

thanks

Last edited by ihavedirt; 05-09-2002 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 05-09-2002, 05:57 PM   #15
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Pointing at the Jaina.jkb file

I'm at work, so I can't exactly open & look at one right now, BUT I think this is how:

Add one file in /scripts/ directory named jaina.bot (made from notepad). content of file: (I think, doing this from memory!)

{
name "Jaina_Solo"
model jaina
color1 0
personality /botfiles/jaina.jkb
}

Model name is dependant on the directory you put the skin & model in (I just used jaina as a reference). Color of sabers is defined by color1; 0 is red, 3 is green, 4 is blue, 5 is purple (I think), and 1 & 2 are yellow & orange, but I don't remember which is which. The spaces in between the entries are actually <tab>s, try opening another .bot file with notepad to get the actual tabulature (I think it makes a difference).

So far editing .bot & .jkb files are ALL I've figured out! I don't have any programs that would work for modelling or skinning (so I completely envy you guys who are good at this!), and have yet to try the jkradiant editor for maps (though it looks like fun!). So hopefully I've helped out at least a little bit.


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Shape shift / feeling I've been
Move swift / all senses clean
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Old 05-09-2002, 06:56 PM   #16
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Question

I think there's something wrong with my ModView, or I'm personally doing something wrong... because, when I tried to load the script file of Jan without all her extras that was included with Raven's download, I could still see the goggles, chaps and vest. I figured my ModView just had a bug or something, and proceeded to put together a regular Jan skin, including the .surf file, just to see if it worked in the game itself... and it didn't.


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Old 05-10-2002, 02:36 AM   #17
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Let me explain, in order, exactly what I did to make a successfuly .surf'ed model.

First, I copied the jedif.mvs file from the instructions download into my Jan folder. I then opened the Jan model in ModView, and went to File - Read Script and chose the jedif.mvs. When that finished loading, the various accessories were turned off, and Jan was now in a lightsaber crouch in the display.

At this point, I looked further into what I wanted to keep out of the default surfaces. I turned the Vest and Belt back on for my skin. I then did File - Write Script and overwrote the jedif.mvs to save these changes. I then edited my Model_Default.surf to turn off the surfaces I wanted off and turn on the ones I needed, then copied it into a model_blue.surf and model_red.surf. I then worked in the skin images and made it look like I wanted. I then renamed the Jan folder to Jaina, and adjusted the .skin files to point to the correct folder. I then copied that Jaina folder to an alternate \Models\Players\ folder and packed it into a .pk3 using WinRar. I then put it in my Base directory, started a new multiplayer game, and played around with my new skin against some bots.

If anyone would like a copy of my .surf'ed skin, I can probably send it. If I can get the Bot working properly, I'll submit it to JediKnightII.net.

Let me know if it's still not working, I'd be happy to continue trying to help

BradFu!


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Old 05-11-2002, 02:18 AM   #18
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pk3 or surf

hey,

id like to see the pk3 and or surf files etc, anything that you can provide me with would be of great use. you can mail me at ihavedirt@hotmail.com

thanks

~* beau *~
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Old 05-11-2002, 08:37 AM   #19
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[COLOR=firebrick]Can someone please help me out, I don't have a clue about all this skin changing infact this whole website is new to me!


Matthe*w Bowles*
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Old 05-12-2002, 01:54 PM   #20
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I seem to be having problems turning on and off surfaces in ModView. I can load the models and skins okay, and I have the big list down the right side. When I load the Jan example, I can turn off the goggles and belt (setting status to OFF). However, when I turn on and off other surfaces, they don't disappear. When I load the Jedi model, when I set any surface to off, nothing disappears. Are there certain surfaces that even when the status is off don't disappear in the viewer? Do I not have something set? Is there a step I'm missing? Any help would be great.

Also, I am interesting in turning off the hair somehow to get a bald jedi.

Thanks.
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Old 05-12-2002, 06:45 PM   #21
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One thing I've discovered is that all surfaces with a * next to them don't make any visible difference, on or off. Not sure what those are, but if those are the ones you're changing, that might be it. Also, when you turn something off, remember to select a different surface. If you have a Surface highlighted on the left, it will show up with it's wireframe, whether it's off or on.

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Old 05-13-2002, 02:09 AM   #22
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Unhappy SurfOff SurfOn

Why does the Shadowtrooper have a hole in his chest if I turn off his accessories? I was nearly finished with my skin and turned off his accessories and he had a hole in his chest?
Raven please help.
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Old 05-13-2002, 04:27 AM   #23
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you turn off something but you must turn on the replacement surface for it to work
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Old 05-13-2002, 04:39 AM   #24
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I couldn't find a replacement surface for that either Have you tried using a .surf'ed Shadowtrooper in the game? It might look ok in there, who knows? The head accessories and belt can be turned off without a problem.

BradFu!


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Old 05-14-2002, 01:52 PM   #25
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Exclamation

I made a Jan mdl w/out the goggles and chaps, works fine in multi but when I replace the kyle model for sp the model has all the stuff turned on!

If I replace kyle with the jedif the stuff is there, but with no textures on them! Help!


Who needs a brother anyway?
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Old 05-14-2002, 04:50 PM   #26
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why is there a jedif.mvs file included for jan, but no jedi2.mvs file for the jedi?

I'm skinning the jedi2 model but I can't view the head in Modview, have to keep launching the game to see how the skin looks.

How can I make/obtain a .mvs file for the jedi2 model?
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Old 05-14-2002, 07:07 PM   #27
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You can make your own .mvs files.

Open Jedi in Modview, turn off the Head, the Face, and the Eyes/Mouth. Then turn on the alternate Head, Face and Eyes/Mouth. Go to File - Write Script. Name it whatever you want. Now you have your own .mvs. Next time you open Modview and need to view your model with the settings you used previously, you can open that .mvs file.

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Old 05-14-2002, 08:37 PM   #28
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Exclamation Help!



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Old 05-15-2002, 04:48 AM   #29
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Tavion's feathers

So to turn off tavion's feathers, i write a note pad of

surfoff "head head_feathers"
is that it? because it didn't work. do i need an .MVS file or is that just for the viewer? That's all i ask. Thanks for any help
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Old 05-15-2002, 09:21 PM   #30
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For Tavion's feathers, you'd create a text file, name it model_default.surf, and put the following in it:

surfOff "head_feathers"

Make a couple copies of this for you blue and read (model_blue.surf, model_red.surf)

The .mvs files are only used in ModView to see the specific settings (ie, ModView Settings = mvs). You don't include this with the skin.

As for the Single Player use of the .surfs, I haven't tried it yet.

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Old 05-15-2002, 09:47 PM   #31
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Post sp surfs don't work...

I have tried it, but with no luck, at least for the player. Fine in multi, but no fun in sp. Why, I don't know. Reeks of laziness/nonsense to me.


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Old 05-16-2002, 12:17 AM   #32
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Well, I tried it now too, didn't work for me either. There might be valid reasons they didn't do it. It seams to me that they would actually have to remove that functionality for it to be missing, but I dunno. Maybe it can be addressed in a future patch.

Maybe they'll throw some new models to us with the next patch, too!

BradFu!


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Old 05-16-2002, 03:26 AM   #33
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Jedif problem

Thanks for all the help BRADFU! now i have a better looking skin. But i have another problem. I got the Jedi2 to work noproblem in multiplayer. The surfaces disappear and all. But I can't get Jedif to work the same way. I tried doing the same thing i did for jedi2. The surf file i used was the one made in the download package. Can you help me? Anyone?

Thanks

-phagocytizer
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Old 05-16-2002, 07:33 AM   #34
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Here's exactly what each of my .surf files contain for my female Jedi that I've tested in the game:

surfOff "hips_chaps torso_computer head_goggles torso_comp hips_belt l_hand_watch"
surfOn "hips_augment_off"

I left the torso_vest on for mine. Try copying that into your .surf file. Make sure you have model_default.surf, model_blue.surf, and model_red.surf. They should all be exactly the same. Also make sure you edit with just Notepad, Wordpad and other programs occasionally add extra formatting to documents. If that doesn't work, I'll e-mail you my .surf files

BradFu!


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Old 05-16-2002, 08:37 AM   #35
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Btw, what Bradfue has shown you, (but not explained) is that some surfaces require something to be switched on to replace the missing surface. A replacement surface, if you like.


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Old 05-16-2002, 09:10 PM   #36
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Unhappy Bradfu,

My jedif skin still didn't work. It still looks like normal jan. I used the skins and surfs from the download packet and i used what you told me to put in. Nothing works. I'm not sure what is wrong. The Jedi2 works fine. Help would be much appreciated.

-phagocytizer
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Old 05-20-2002, 05:08 PM   #37
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Angry My surface thing doesnt work, too

I have downloaded the mp_surface.zip file (or what its called), and i have unzipped it into my base dir. , but when I start Multiplayer, the normal Jan model is shown, with goggles, vest, and the other stuff. I have tried to make my own skins, and I cant turn the surfaces off there, too.....
Do i have to download any kind of patch for Jedi Outcast, or does it work with the "normal" Version?????

What can I do???????????
Help!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-20-2002, 08:53 PM   #38
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Re: My surface thing doesnt work, too

Quote:
Originally posted by StonedJesuz
I have downloaded the mp_surface.zip file (or what its called), and i have unzipped it into my base dir. , but when I start Multiplayer, the normal Jan model is shown, with goggles, vest, and the other stuff. I have tried to make my own skins, and I cant turn the surfaces off there, too.....
Do i have to download any kind of patch for Jedi Outcast, or does it work with the "normal" Version?????

What can I do???????????
Help!!!!!!!!!
i had the problem until i downloaded the 1.03 patch
however although jan appears sans accesories in multiplayer in my version she appears normal in modview for some reason
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Old 05-21-2002, 04:25 AM   #39
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Re: Re: My surface thing doesnt work, too

Quote:
Originally posted by Bucke

i had the problem until i downloaded the 1.03 patch
however although jan appears sans accesories in multiplayer in my version she appears normal in modview for some reason
TO change it in ModView, you need to go through and turn off the Surfaces you want off, turn on what you want on, then go to File - Write Script, save it as whatever.mvs. Next time you open ModView, go to File - Read Script and open that whatever.mvs, it will show the model with whatever surfaces you had set.

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Old 05-21-2002, 07:15 AM   #40
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Angry

help


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