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Old 09-17-2002, 03:50 PM   #1
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State of ProMod beta 3

I've updated the main page with a bit about what I'm hoping to accomplish with Beta 3. I'm posting about it here because I've been unable to update the main page for a while, so some of you may have been wondering where I went. Here's the link:

http://www.oculis.org/promod/


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Old 09-17-2002, 04:14 PM   #2
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Good news. Thanks for the update Artifex!

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Old 09-17-2002, 04:37 PM   #3
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Scaling? SCALING IN PROMOD??? <froths at mouth>

Anything that will get ppl to download promod and make it more appealing to the general public is a good thing in my books. The cvar for scaling is a good compromise, altho I wouldn't go too far down the cvar road.

My only suggestion would be that you finish a stable version 1 before working on the more ambitious content such as new gametypes etc. This would allow server operators and players to feel comfortable downloading promod without thinking that another beta is around the corner. Having said that, I'm sure you've already thought about this.

Your ideas sound very promising ArtifoX, looking forward to seeing them implemented!

Last edited by taboo; 09-17-2002 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 09-17-2002, 05:22 PM   #4
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What the? Someone hacked Artifex's site and username?! j/k


Adding the fun useless stuff will help attract players, don't really see why haveing a small yoda or a tall chewbaca really matters that much, but you have to give the people what they want.

What i want to see is your gun/saber balanceing system, right not i'm shying away from then because right now it's really easy to just jump back and rocket someone, or if your good, strafe and alt fire with the main 3.

Also some other stuff i'm looking forward to:

new force power
new gametype
Some saber throw system

as for the new force buying system, i'm assuming you mean the saber offence, not really needed but helpfull

Also i have and idea, i need to see if it's plausable

automatic knockdown from lv 3 pull when pulling someone from behind, they are runing forward, their csc value on you is 0 and yours is fully red, and the puller has to be very close to the runner. I don't really see this being a problem as knockdowns arent really that bad with jump, but it would help to stop people from runing away mid fight and the best you can do is try and close in on them with the saber, Pull (can't link with an attack if succesful), or saber throw and hope they stay in a straight line.

I don't know if this could be implemented easly or needed, so i need some oppinions.
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Old 09-17-2002, 05:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by taboo
...
My only suggestion would be that you finish a stable version 1 before working on the more ambitious content such as new gametypes etc. This would allow server operators and players to feel comfortable downloading promod without thinking that another beta is around the corner. Having said that, I'm sure you've already thought about this.
...
Stability is always my number 1 priority. The next version or two will be incremental steps closer to my final goal, but that goal will happen after I release a 1.0 Final version, I think. The good news there is that I'll be adding features a step at a time, each more complicated than the last, so that the core of the game will be rock solid by the time I release the Final.


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Old 09-17-2002, 05:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by zerowingzero
What the? Someone hacked Artifex's site and username?! j/k

What i want to see is your gun/saber balanceing system, right not i'm shying away from then because right now it's really easy to just jump back and rocket someone, or if your good, strafe and alt fire with the main 3.


Yes, the gun-balancing system will be in Beta 3.

Quote:

Also some other stuff i'm looking forward to:

new force power
new gametype
Some saber throw system

as for the new force buying system, i'm assuming you mean the saber offence, not really needed but helpfull

Also i have and idea, i need to see if it's plausable

automatic knockdown from lv 3 pull when pulling someone from behind, they are runing forward, their csc value on you is 0 and yours is fully red, and the puller has to be very close to the runner. I don't really see this being a problem as knockdowns arent really that bad with jump, but it would help to stop people from runing away mid fight and the best you can do is try and close in on them with the saber, Pull (can't link with an attack if succesful), or saber throw and hope they stay in a straight line.

I don't know if this could be implemented easly or needed, so i need some oppinions.


You've pretty accurately described what I'm doing to Push and Pull. A strong push from behind is going to knock you down if you're caught flat-footed (facing away from your attacker). I'm planning on making thrown sabers vulnerable to an equal or higher level of, and well-aimed Force Push. A Pushed saber will drop dead in the air, and might get pushed far away if the Power Level deficit is bad enough.


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Old 09-17-2002, 05:51 PM   #7
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Whoo, can't wait!


Heh, if you really want to go crazy with the fun mode (and have time to work nonstop), pulling a thrown saber in certain instances should enable double sabers for the puller, with them geting the stolen saber knocked out with a kick.

Damn i shouldent have said anything, Artifex will try and do it anyway, why won't he ever take a break? I almost wish i knew something about coding so i could help more...
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Old 09-17-2002, 06:02 PM   #8
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Why, that's just plain retarded zerowingzero ... Artifex should obviously be spending his time creating new saber hilt packs! Honestly tho, unless the animations were redone, holding 2 sabers looks a bit silly imho.

The push/pull changes make a great deal of sense. Sooo, are ya gonna fill us in yet on the saber/weapons balancing changes? I'm dying to know!

Last edited by taboo; 09-17-2002 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 09-17-2002, 06:06 PM   #9
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Heh, i was refering to the "Madness mode" aka the optional model scaling/dbl saber/ stuff that doesnt really need to be added, called "sarcasm".

I wish i knew the details also, maybe if i quickly taking some coding courses...
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Old 09-17-2002, 06:17 PM   #10
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Hehe ... I's just funnin' ya a bit.
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Old 09-17-2002, 07:55 PM   #11
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Duel sabers are in my opinion a total waste unless the animation code can get ironed out and have them totally re-done and balanced. A new cvar is a good idea though so all that "fluff" can be turned off for the pureists

Cant wait to see what the new game types are

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Old 09-18-2002, 01:09 AM   #12
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Thank goodness for another version of Promod. Praxknights and Artifex's server has been empty so I can't get my promod fix .

Model scaling is going to be a bit cumbersome... if you're accustomed to aiming at the regular model height and you meet a Yoda or Ugnaught, you're going to have to readjust your aim, which is sort of annoying.

But at least it will immigrate some of those crazy Jedimod players by adding Dualbladed Double sabers.




Oh wait... Dualbladed Double sabers with Promod damage? CHAOS!!!


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Old 09-18-2002, 03:13 AM   #13
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maybe limiting the range of the scaling... the <0.5 and >2 models u see in jedimod is just plain ridiculous
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Old 09-18-2002, 08:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by taboo
Why, that's just plain retarded zerowingzero ... Artifex should obviously be spending his time creating new saber hilt packs! Honestly tho, unless the animations were redone, holding 2 sabers looks a bit silly imho.

The push/pull changes make a great deal of sense. Sooo, are ya gonna fill us in yet on the saber/weapons balancing changes? I'm dying to know!
Not just yet. Have to work with it a bit to see how it's going to end up. Once I'm sure of the features, I'll clue you all in.


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Old 09-18-2002, 08:54 AM   #15
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hey artifex, why is it your mod is the only mod that doesnt glitch my mp game up?

trying to get rid of the competetion are we?

j/k

its a good mod


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Old 09-18-2002, 08:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toonces
Duel sabers are in my opinion a total waste unless the animation code can get ironed out and have them totally re-done and balanced. A new cvar is a good idea though so all that "fluff" can be turned off for the pureists

Cant wait to see what the new game types are
I agree that the animations don't support dual sabers well, but there are so many people saying that they won't use ProMod until they get them that I'm being forced to capitulate. I'll do my best to balance them. One thing I'll be doing for sure is giving the double saber style a heavy penalty to resisting a Defense Breaker, and low damage. My reasoning: you're using the sabers one-handed. Imagine trying to hit a baseball while holding the bat with only one hand.


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Old 09-18-2002, 09:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Psionic Jedi
Thank goodness for another version of Promod. Praxknights and Artifex's server has been empty so I can't get my promod fix .
Try doing what I do. Whenever my server's empty, I just lurk in there for a bit, and usually within a few minutes there's 4-8 people in there. Kinda like "priming the pump".

Quote:

Model scaling is going to be a bit cumbersome... if you're accustomed to aiming at the regular model height and you meet a Yoda or Ugnaught, you're going to have to readjust your aim, which is sort of annoying.

But at least it will immigrate some of those crazy Jedimod players by adding Dualbladed Double sabers.
Looking at jedimod1.2, the biggest reasons people use it are the dual sabers and the model scaling. Give them those options in another mod, and maybe they'll at least give it a shot. Most people that complain about the lack of these 2 things haven't even downloaded ProMod from what I've seen.

Quote:

Oh wait... Dualbladed Double sabers with Promod damage? CHAOS!!!
Believe it or not, the final goal of ProMod will balance dual and double-bladed sabers with the other single-saber styles. How? (taps fingers together thoughtfully).


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Old 09-18-2002, 09:05 AM   #18
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Originally posted by thehomicidalegg
maybe limiting the range of the scaling... the <0.5 and >2 models u see in jedimod is just plain ridiculous
I'm going to limit sizes to 0.6-->1.2. Anything outside of those bounds would make the game balance go haywire.


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Old 09-18-2002, 09:06 AM   #19
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hmmm, it seems artifex doesnt want his wallet back

ohh well,


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Old 09-18-2002, 09:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dath Maximus
hey artifex, why is it your mod is the only mod that doesnt glitch my mp game up?
Could be because most of the changes are only to the source code. The only things in the .pk3 file other than the vm's are 5 new texture images. Most of the mods are packaging tons of new models and maps, which could be disagreeable to your system.

Try adding some of the models and maps from the other mods into your promod directory. If promod breaks after adding some of these things, then you'll know the problem is with the extra content.


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Old 09-18-2002, 09:25 AM   #21
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Just another update on how things are going:

I began coding Beta 3 last night. Things went well enough so that I ended up fixing all of the reported bugs in about 4 hours. Jah Warrior and others will be happy to know that the "spinning special move" bug is now gone. All of the specials react exactly how they're supposed to whether they collide with another saber, a player or whatever. Orangina Rouge will be a bit upset to find his favorite technique is now gone (level 2 drain and lightning still had the old range--now fixed). There was some goofiness with Dodging sniper shots with Force Sight when Force was disabled, which is also fixed. The arc in which you can block a sniper shot with Saber Defense has also been narrowed from 45-degrees to about 30-degrees, making level 3 Force Sight more valuable.

Next step is a massive overhaul of the UI, including the ability to filter servers running ProMod. One thing I'd like to get some feedback on: Would you guys like Beta 3 to go into a new directory, such as "GameData/ProModBeta3" or would you rather continue to overwrite the old files in their directory?


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Old 09-18-2002, 09:48 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Could be because most of the changes are only to the source code. The only things in the .pk3 file other than the vm's are 5 new texture images. Most of the mods are packaging tons of new models and maps, which could be disagreeable to your system.

Try adding some of the models and maps from the other mods into your promod directory. If promod breaks after adding some of these things, then you'll know the problem is with the extra content.
no your mod is fine, it mods like jedi mod that cause the glytching,
ever since my pc crashed its done that. i can still play, but seeing health is impossible. ohh well, jetpack works atleast

you sure you arnt slipping in corrupt files into other mods, making yours the only working one? Much like bill gates.
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Old 09-18-2002, 10:43 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dath Maximus


no your mod is fine, it mods like jedi mod that cause the glytching,
ever since my pc crashed its done that. i can still play, but seeing health is impossible. ohh well, jetpack works atleast

you sure you arnt slipping in corrupt files into other mods, making yours the only working one? Much like bill gates.
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Nope, no "predatory practices" from me!

What I meant for you to try was to take some of the bad data files from the .pk3's of the mods giving you trouble and put them into your GameData/promod directory and see if ProMod continues to run well. That will help you figure out exactly what about those other mods is causing you grief. Glad ProMod's not the culprit!


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Old 09-18-2002, 11:51 AM   #24
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I am glad to see that you are going to incorporate the "eye candy" into promod. This will bring my regulars to the new promod releases.

I have been priming the pump the best I can to get them ready and this will help even more.

Jedimod in itself is great fun but promod is where the skill lies and I am glad that u are taking this to heart.

My quick question to you is this. Are you doing new code for the dual saber stuff or are u using jedimod as a base. If you do use Jedimod as a base leave all of the emotes in place. People love those things and plus they add a bit of variety to the beginning of a duel when you can give someone the thumbsdown or do a saber flip. Also leave in or add the custom saber hilts. and make them a seperate cvar like they are in jedimod. That way if the server does not want "funmode" on then they can have the custom hilts on. Its just another way of adding a "personal" touch to your model. The new saber color system also does this and works well. Each saber is tuned to that persons color taste and is also a personal mark in the game. You will then know who to "ahem" move away from in a quick glance.

Love the direction you are heading and I am glad that you are putting the will of the masses into your mod without giving up on the core integrity.

Thanks for your thought and hard work!


Just play the game......do not complain about it!
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Old 09-18-2002, 01:39 PM   #25
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There's a ton of existing "emotes" in the animation files already, like the meditatation pose, etc., that I'll most likely put in. Dest and Tchouky seem to say somewhere in one of the forum threads that they have programmatically manipulated the skeleton to produce a few more emotes (not sure if that's so). If that is the case, you can be sure they won't be included. I won't be using any of jedimod's code.


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Old 09-18-2002, 04:20 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Try doing what I do. Whenever my server's empty, I just lurk in there for a bit, and usually within a few minutes there's 4-8 people in there. Kinda like "priming the pump".

Well if what i think is true, most use the in-game browser so if they have the option "don't list empty servers", then they arent seeing it. Adding 1 bot will make people see the server 24/7, as well as geting out of the lame "fighting a server full of bots" thing.

And with the dual sabers, were the animations made independantly or with the game? i've looked thru all those animations and there are tons that were never used.

Also, if you want to be evil you can include a mp.cfg they most uninformed players will download with auto dl and server name "promod server" enabled, they will have to reset all their keys but they will always have the latest version... heh heh heh

Also yes, nameing the mod Promodb3 or something will help distingush old servers from new, it isnt the final version so naming it "promod" kinda confuses things.

Good luck
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Old 09-18-2002, 07:13 PM   #27
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I don't suppose than a new gametype in Promod at some point in the future could be some kinda mercenary vs. jedi mode? Just seems such a good idea, would be great to have it implemented with Promod. Either way, its a brilliant mod, I wouldn't be playing JK2 MP anymore if it wasn't for it infact!


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Old 09-18-2002, 07:30 PM   #28
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The origional Jedi vs Merc is still in promod, althought unbalenced atm.

g_jedivsmerc 1 if i remember correctly
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Old 09-19-2002, 01:51 AM   #29
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its g_jedivmerc 1

that need to be balanced out quite dramtically though.

as for the mod replacement thing, i dont mind either way, though replacing the old mod will make ppl play the newest version.
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Old 09-19-2002, 08:52 AM   #30
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Yes, I will be expanding on jedi vs. merc, but I'm not doing anything with the jedivmerc setting.

(Everyone looks at Artifex with a puzzled expression)

Trust me.


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Old 09-19-2002, 10:04 AM   #31
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OOOH! Seems like something big is coming...
I wonder if ArtifeX really is a single human being. He's doing more than some teams do.
Or I think too much :P
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Old 09-19-2002, 10:18 AM   #32
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Just when I was happy in my v1.02 Arti has to go and talk about another promod! Damn you!

*cough* spinning DFA *cough*

I have this annoying cold that just won't go away..

*cough* pull down gunners *cough*

I took some Nyquil but it has had no effect!

*cough* *cough* force power set to 1.02 levels*cough* *cough*

Oh well I am going to lie down.


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:43 AM   #33
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Fatal: One of these versions will get you to quit playing 1.02, i swear.

Hey, what happened to jedibattlefield? Stopped by yesterday and the whole site's just gone.


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Old 09-19-2002, 12:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX
Fatal: One of these versions will get you to quit playing 1.02, i swear.

Hey, what happened to jedibattlefield? Stopped by yesterday and the whole site's just gone.
The last I heard was that -V-Rage was leaving JKII for good. I guess the site crumbled without him.

Another casualty of Ravens patches!


Battlefield 1942........
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Old 09-19-2002, 11:11 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArtifeX
There's a ton of existing "emotes" in the animation files already, like the meditatation pose, etc., that I'll most likely put in. Dest and Tchouky seem to say somewhere in one of the forum threads that they have programmatically manipulated the skeleton to produce a few more emotes (not sure if that's so). If that is the case, you can be sure they won't be included. I won't be using any of jedimod's code.
They did, most likely. I think /jedi was a pure example of that.
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Old 09-20-2002, 04:32 AM   #36
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Gargh! I hate ppl who says 'trust me.'

*bashes artifex with a big wooded spoon ... stops... looks around... runs away as fast as possible with force speed turned on*
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Old 09-20-2002, 03:41 PM   #37
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Thanks for the update...Promod is the only version of the MP game I enjoy playing anymore, but whenever I'm ready to play the only active servers are off in Europe or Asia with like 2 players each (at least 1 of whom is usually a bot). Hopefully this will help boost the game's popularity.
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Old 09-20-2002, 06:45 PM   #38
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One thing everybody needs to make sure of is that they're not filtering out empty servers. There's around 12-20 ProMod servers at any time, many of which are empty. Don't be afraid to be the first one into the server--someone's got to be. I never have to wait more than a couple minutes in my official server before someone's joined in. Within 10 minutes, there's usually 5-10 people in there.


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Old 09-22-2002, 12:11 AM   #39
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JK2++ is dead. ther'es a replacement server and such, but the glory days of the server being filled with some jk2++ servers is dead. Rest in peace JK2++, it's all that kept me around.

Now, promod is all I have left. I'm glad you're still dedicated to hammering stuff out. While you'll never convince me that saber damage is high enough, since i'm so high on my jk2++ damage levels. Personally, I wish light stance were more powerful... heck, I wish all the stances were more powerful. Even with your current settings, and defense values, yellow stance is still better than most styles all-around. Red is powerful, but I wish it was more dangerous, light stance... bah, it's so defense in nature and the rewards are so small for using it properly, that you might as well switch to yellow anyway, and use blue to finish off. I'm still a guy who likes having the abilyt to take someone out in two seconds. And while promod does have it, I like having that ability all the time... you know what i'm getting at.

Otherwise, your mod is technically superior. Even with damage at a level that I wish was higher, it is balanced. If you're going to give into the models and stuff, here's a few suggestions, even though I'm completely uninformed in the programming department. If duel sabers, or lightstaffs, or whatever get in, i'm always a pro-high saber damage guy. I am the guy who thinks a lightsaber should hurt as much as that imperial flechette does. Don't reduce the damage. The blocking thing you mentioned, good idea. Give the dual person the offensive advantage, he can block stuff and put out twice as much trouble. Even give the person offensive points in the csc just for having the stuff. But also give them a constant defensive defecit. I would assume a dual person would want to parry or deflect most moves. Give the user light stance properties only. Don't emulate everytning and give them like three styles. So they can parry, attack more often, give them offensive bonus, but also a limit. Let the models effect that as well. Small guys, offensive penalty, especially for yoda (they'll just have to get skilled with lightstance or something), and big guys, I don't know why to do with that. Why not give them offensive bonus for being large. Hmm... that's a tough one. The yoda thing I wouldn't really care, I have no problem ducking or aiming low. Hitting him will be hard, but if you give the tiny models a defecit in both offense and defense, i'm cool with it. Big guys, that's a tough one. I'd say "well, if they're bigger, doesn't it just mkae it easier to hit" but it wouldn't effect how to models respond to blocking or anything. Why not make them slower, or just throw at them anyway, even if it wouldn't make "sense".


I think your mod is fine, so when I throw out ideas, these are just opinions, etc., not things that promod would need to do in order to get me to play. In terms of blue stance parrying, yellow stance deflecting, red stance "i forget", i can see the animations in there, but I do wish that when these "clashes occur, these annimations would have a little more effect on the players. What I'm saying is, that up really close, the animations for the blocking effects, or should i just say the blocking effects, do work to a degree, hits come through. But in terms of movement, it's like people cna just run around while clashing. I always hated that. If I clash sabers, I think people should be more visibly effected. Player model shouldn't be given so much flexibilyt to move. Especially with light stance. Perhaps if someone comes in so careless testing the lightstances defenses, the parry should be able to not just do what it does not, but even force player models in certain directions, stun a person. I don't know how you'd do that exactly though. But right now, the effect is there... but not a large factor. People switch to blue for a better defense, but not so often. Doing it makes blocking better to a degree, but how often do you switch to red stance for strategic blocking? Or yellow stance? It would be cool if each stance had blocking effects that were more prominent. It would also be nice if those blocking effects were even more prominent on model scaling. So normal size, we can actually force players in certain directions with blocking style, etc. If the model is yoda, we can force him to go somewhere even more so. Programmin wise though, yeah, that just might be too out there.

New force power point system. New force powers. I'm for it. I wish this game had a ton of powers like MotS did. Granted, the tons of powers I speak of weren't "that' many, but as much I always try to tell people "make new force powers' no one ever shows interest. It would be nice if the force had a more prominent, but still subtle effect. Right now, it is subtle... as in why assign points to the dark side or lightside when you can use a gun. Now this drives me nuts!!!! Yes, I agree that having lightning or drain be too effect can be annoying, but let's get serious. Right now, it's more effective to use force speed and an imperial repeater than it is to put any points in lightning. Why? Why bother. Lightning is useless unless someone is stupid enough to stand there and let you do it. Or they just use absorb. I have a whole slew of opinions about game options and stuff. Along with saber damage (which isn't nearly as an importnat issue honestly), and force powers, i'm all about having tons of options to win. Right now, it's use your saber or use a gun. The force really doesn't factor in too much, except when rushing down a gunner and jumping. Right now, the most effective power to have is absorb, jump, speed, heal/drain, and dark rage. Mind trick.... well, even with the new settings, it's limited in usefulness. Protect.... well, it's annoying now because lightsaber damage is low enough that protect actually can prove... well quite annoying. But even still, not the most popular. Lighning, why bother decreasing the range. Never in any history, any version, have i ever had a problem fighting lightning. or drain. Well, the drain I did. I could careless that my force power was gone, it was the fact that the person was healing so well. In addition, since lightsaber damage is still only 'moderate', and less effective than a rocket launcher, drain is super effective.

I'll just stop typing, and post more concrete ideas later.
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Old 09-22-2002, 09:15 AM   #40
zerowingzero
 
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Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally posted by FatalStrike


*cough* spinning DFA *cough*


Are you refering to the special blocking bug or the other spining dfa, (Which i made a video of )
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