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Old 03-14-2003, 08:35 PM   #1
razorace
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Exclamation Critical Basic Issue with the Saber Collision System

Ok, I figured out why the saber collision sucks in multiplayer. There's no current ghoul2 support for the saber collisions. The current system uses a simple BOX for receive hits on the saber. This makes the saber collisions EXTREMELY inaccurate and doesn't look good at all.

However, there is a solution. I have a plan to impliment TRUE ghoul2 collisions for saber and the other weapons.

But I need YOUR help. I need a modeller for create a .glm model of a saber BLADE (not hilt) in the correct formating/scale to insert it into the game.

Without these critical modifications, the saber system can't be converted into anything remotely near to SP on accuracy or visuals.

Coders and Modellers please contact me if you're interested in helping.

Razor Ace


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Old 03-15-2003, 01:28 AM   #2
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You want a solid blade placed where the emit tag is? not sure what the scale of the blade should be (compared to the hilt...). Like 5 or 6 times the height of kyle's hilt?

I could probably make one for you.

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Old 03-15-2003, 02:42 AM   #3
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Well, the blade ingame is 40 units long and the width is suppose to be about 3 wide. I believe that's the same units as used in 3dsm.

I'd suggest that it whoever does this uses the default saber hilt for scale comparison.


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Old 03-15-2003, 11:15 AM   #4
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One other thing (as far as i know it is not same thing..) which
is bad about MP saber blocking and bla bla bla is that event
prediction... (or actually lack of it)

(in MP game it seems that game runs those blocking anims
and... when that "thing" is already touching us...)
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Old 03-15-2003, 03:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
Well, the blade ingame is 40 units long and the width is suppose to be about 3 wide. I believe that's the same units as used in 3dsm.
3D max uses different units (inches, feet, centimeters, meters etc...) But i think inches would work fine (i think what's the .XSI uses anyway.)

I'll make an attempt later today.

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Old 03-15-2003, 06:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJL
One other thing (as far as i know it is not same thing..) which
is bad about MP saber blocking and bla bla bla is that event
prediction... (or actually lack of it)

(in MP game it seems that game runs those blocking anims
and... when that "thing" is already touching us...)
yeah, as of now, there is no prediction for blocking. You physically have to get hit on the body or saber to even attempt a block. I've got a idea on how to fix that too.


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Old 03-15-2003, 06:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Psyk0Sith
I'll make an attempt later today. [/B]
Ok, great.


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Old 03-15-2003, 10:28 PM   #8
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g_saberghoul2collision !
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Old 03-15-2003, 11:09 PM   #9
razorace
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For once Emon is incorrect.

g_saberghoul2collision only effects the attacking part of the saber hit detection. The hitable part of the saber is a crappy simple square bounding box. There's no ghoul2 model for the g_saberghoul2collision's ghoul2 tracing to hit!

In english, the saber acts like a long thin square box but acts like a square unweildly box on defense. This means that all the saber on saber collisions occur a good ways away from the visual saber blades. This is why the sabers seem to bounce off each other nearly at random in MP.

However, I have a planned solution implimentation that will vastly improve the saber hit detection to true blade to blade accuracy and will not result in any network hit (since the fix is totally server side). Look for this soon in MotF. It's definately going into Release 3. (Release 2 should be out today or tomorrow)

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Old 03-16-2003, 03:04 AM   #10
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Here's my attempt...unfortunately, milkshape 3d expired so i couldnt import proper tags.

I simply extruded the top of the hilt to create a 1x1x40 cylinder.
So the 3D blade should matche exactly the start position of the in-game blade.

There's a version with the blade + hilt and other with only the blade.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/psykopat/downloads/blade.zip

Let me know if that's not what you need...

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Old 03-16-2003, 03:20 AM   #11
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Well, uh, I need it in .glm format. I'm too stupid to convert it on my own.


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Old 03-16-2003, 06:33 AM   #12
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Ok, I was able to convert it using md3view and it's very close to what I need. It'll work for now but there's some extras, I'd like.

1. Have the blade start at the model origin.
2. Add a surface tag to the start and end of the blade.

Thanks a bunch Psyk0Sith!


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Old 03-16-2003, 08:22 AM   #13
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Ok, it works! On the first try! I'm getting better at this.

Ok, it's a HUGE improvement, but now the rest of the saber system needs to be alters to reflect the improvment in accuracy. Right now it's not responsive yet to accurately reflect saber deflects and doesn't have any way to prevent the sabers from actually passing thru each other.


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Old 03-16-2003, 11:48 AM   #14
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Sounds great, razorace. Gummelt told me that g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 would make the blocking more like 1.02 instead of 1.03. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with GHOUL2, but 1.03 had more of a "huge shield in front of you" feel for blocking than 1.02. Might want to give it a try, especially combined with other stuff.
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Old 03-18-2003, 03:46 AM   #15
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That's because your saber is a freakin' big bounding box while on defense.

As for g_sabertracesaber first, it's a joke of a code (no offence to Raven). Raven created it because they felt that the sabers weren't hitting often enough. All it does is make it so that sabers will ALWAYS hit whenever the bounding box of a saber and the attack trace of a saber touch. This means that sabers can touch at ANY angle including thru bodies. I'm sure it seemed like a good idea at the time with their design plan but it's totally rediculse for anything remotely attempting to sim "real" melee weapon combat.

My prototype is up and working. The collisions work great but it shows how poorly equiped the rest of the system is set up for realistic saber combat. The major issues are:

1. Sabers often aren't stopped or deflected by a impact. That means that sabers often pass thru bodies/walls/sabers/etc even with the better collisions.

2. Body hits get an automatic blocking "roll". This works ok when you've got boxes for a body and a saber but with polygon collisions is looks stupid. You'll OFTEN hit the body and have it act like a saber block.

Both problems are going to require some serious work to fix. I've got a plan of action but it's going to take some time to do right.

If you wanna see a couple of demos of the prototype in action, check out the Showcase Forum soon.


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Old 03-18-2003, 09:58 AM   #16
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btw, that big bounding box is called a "hitbox" its used on the characters too, you got a box around your head, arms, legs, balls, wherever, i dont think you can defeat it as its a part of the coding
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