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Old 06-08-2003, 10:15 PM   #1
Jubatus
 
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Question Why the Debate?

My theory is that you debate out of a vain effort to stimulate your egoes. With total honesty, how many of you can say that you debate truly believing that you can convert someone to your oppinion, or even widen their horizon, rather than in the hope they'll admit defeat?

With total honesty, how many of you can say that if you achieve the defeat of your adversary it is not just you, who through selfindulgence have accepted your bantering, which have been less than perfectly (in your own estimate) countered by said adversary, as his admittance of defeat?

With total honesty, how many of you can say you debate to widen your own horizon instead of aforementioned ego stimulation?

Bottom line; with total honesty, how many of you can say that you believe debating can change anyone significantly? And yet of more interest, if you do, do you debate in faith of that believe?

I do not, so if this turns into a debate I might pop in in an already known to me vain attempt at stimulating my ego.

Debate and Enlightenment are servant and master to one another unless Debate devolves too low or Enlightenment evolves too high.

EDIT: Damnable typos!


-]H-P[-Jubatus - All bow down to TROGDOR the BURNINATOR!

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Last edited by Jubatus; 06-09-2003 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 06-08-2003, 11:15 PM   #2
ShadowTemplar
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Touchy issue...

Personally, neither. I argue, because

1) I view it as a game. It stimulates my intellect, and sense of logic, or so I like to tell myself. It also has the nice benefit of brushing up some of my less-present knowledge (the Evolution debate, in various forms, recapped my learning of dating techniques, for example).

2) I learn new things. For example, Skin explained some things about aforementioned dating techniques that I didn't know. Now of course such a bit of information hardly goes as a credible source, but I often find that I get a hint about the direction in which I should look.

3) Of course, as a nice bonus, someone might happen to agree with me.

But, bottom line, it's because I like the challenge of analyzing an argument and finding its weak points. Oh, and I almost forgot: Those absolutely priceless sites like www.dhmo.org and www.evolutionfacts.org (I don't know why the latter link won't work). I laughed my butt off at both sites (although only the former was intended as a joke, the latter fills the role marvelously).

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Old 06-09-2003, 02:04 AM   #3
Solbe M'ko
 
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I just like to hear what others have to say, and tell them what I have to say.

Plus it stimulate my ego!
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Old 06-09-2003, 02:10 AM   #4
SkinWalker
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I have to concede that there is a certain bit of ego involved... Here's an example

But I also think that debate on certain topics is helpful to the intellect as ShadowT stated. In fact, this is my main contention for discussions here in the Senate. I rarely venture out to other areas of LucasForums.... sometimes the Swamp... I've certainly felt a bit lonely here lately... Munik is banned.... regulars are scarce... WELCOME BACK SHADOW!

BTW, ShadowT... check the link above for some real laughter

Personally, I'm not above changing my mind on many topics that we debate here. If the argument is both valid and well stated. I've a feeling that if the "ganja" thread would have continued much longer, I would have eased up on my convictions against smoking marijuana.... either that, or I would have found some more, compelling evidence against it.

Debate is a healthy form of discussion... particularly when it involves scientific types. I've seen many cases where scientific debates and discussions end in one side conceding in light of evidence presented.

It's only with polititians and religious types that you fail to see reasoned debate and discussion.


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Old 06-09-2003, 04:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkinWalker
I have to concede that there is a certain bit of ego involved... Here's an example

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH.

That was one of the funniest things i've read in a LONG time.........i'm signing up for that forum just to post in that thread.......BAHAHAHAHAHAHA



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Old 06-09-2003, 06:38 AM   #6
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I like to hear other peoples opinions and see what they think of mine.

The ego thing doesn't really come into it, since impressing a bunch of people I don't know apart from a nickname and an avatar isn't really my bag.

BTW sciforums is cool. I used to post there since near it first started and was one of the well known people. I'm surprised not to see GilW in that thread. He comes up with all wacky sort of stuff.


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Old 06-09-2003, 01:04 PM   #7
El Sitherino
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Quote:
Originally posted by Solbe M'ko
I just like to hear what others have to say, and tell them what I have to say.
that's why i debate.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 06-09-2003, 04:01 PM   #8
C'jais
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It's a game.

Sure, trying to prove your case the best, find evidence for it and invent brilliant arguments and analogies to get the intellectual upper hand can be viewed as a selfish desire to "win" - but it's also rewarding and educating at the same time.

I like to explore the other side's point of view, but I like resistance even more. Part of the reason why I haven't posted that much here these days is because people started agreeing on things. Weird, I know, but I don't like "debating" with people over things we already agree on.

And also, the never-ending religious discussions got me to realize how utterly pointless it is to argue with certain people about certain things. Someone might just end up hurt.

Last, but not least, it is possible to change someone's point of view. Saying it stimulates our egoes is akin to saying love is a desire to stimulate egoes as well - so what? If someone out there enjoys it, who cares if I do it for my own gain?


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Old 06-09-2003, 06:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by C'jais
Saying it stimulates our egoes is akin to saying love is a desire to stimulate egoes as well - so what? If someone out there enjoys it, who cares if I do it for my own gain?
I was merely asking, but I can see how you might take offence to my inquiry.

And as for the rest, who have replied, thanks for doing so if indeed you were truthful in your replies.


-]H-P[-Jubatus - All bow down to TROGDOR the BURNINATOR!

Ode to a

Hey, you there! What we count in numbers we lack in wit.
Hey, you there! I take orders from an imperial git.
Hey, you there! I can't shot for sh*t.
Hey, you there!....Is there a bottom to this pit?
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Old 06-10-2003, 03:26 AM   #10
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I debate for the sport.

It's fun to me, and I enjoy it, thus I do it. Though sometimes the debates on these boards involve too much reading and thinking and i'm not in the mood for it.



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Old 07-01-2003, 08:10 PM   #11
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ego?

I dont need to stimulate my ego, I already know I'm ALL that!


Seriously though, I am open to being swayed on topics and will openly admit it when the need arises, If i were that closed mind that i were unswayable then I'm more than half way to utter ignorance...

What was it plato or Socrates who said:- he who admits he knows nothing is truly wise man (or words to that effect - memory sucks today)

provoking thought is never anything but a good thing, if everyone just carried on regardless without even looking at two sides of the coin then everything will go pear shaped.

if your ideas and philosophies can withstand debate then you know that you are on the right track. If its an ego thing then cool by me, i like to know that I'm not just barking up the wrong tree continually and its human nature to be pleased when you are correct about any given subject.

if you did everything you can to avoid egoism then i reckon you'll be pretty miserable, the human mind is pre-programmed to seek pleasure, its just the way we are and there's nothing that can be done about it.


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Old 07-01-2003, 11:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
ego?

I dont need to stimulate my ego, I already know I'm ALL that!


Seriously though, I am open to being swayed on topics and will openly admit it when the need arises, If i were that closed mind that i were unswayable then I'm more than half way to utter ignorance...

What was it plato or Socrates who said:- he who admits he knows nothing is truly wise man (or words to that effect - memory sucks today)

provoking thought is never anything but a good thing, if everyone just carried on regardless without even looking at two sides of the coin then everything will go pear shaped.

if your ideas and philosophies can withstand debate then you know that you are on the right track. If its an ego thing then cool by me, i like to know that I'm not just barking up the wrong tree continually and its human nature to be pleased when you are correct about any given subject.

if you did everything you can to avoid egoism then i reckon you'll be pretty miserable, the human mind is pre-programmed to seek pleasure, its just the way we are and there's nothing that can be done about it.
Well put, Jah, you old geezer Indeed that is why one should debate - provocation of new thoughts.


-]H-P[-Jubatus - All bow down to TROGDOR the BURNINATOR!

Ode to a

Hey, you there! What we count in numbers we lack in wit.
Hey, you there! I take orders from an imperial git.
Hey, you there! I can't shot for sh*t.
Hey, you there!....Is there a bottom to this pit?
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Old 07-04-2003, 12:24 PM   #13
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I just like to express myself
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Old 07-04-2003, 11:14 PM   #14
Dagobahn Eagle
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1. It's fun. I sometimes honestly consider it a game.

2. I want to express my opinions. Whenever I have a view about something, I want to share it, especially if it is a political view. If I have to "burn in" with a view, I'm unhappy, the same way as an athlete is unhappy if he doesn't get to compete in his favourite activity. If I get to run, especially with a doggie, I'm more happy than if I don't. This is the same thing.

So personally, I don't always do it to persuade others, but because I like it. In cases where I'm happy about defeating an opponent, I'm happy because it strenghtens a cause I'm loyal to (ie. if I bash a homophobic guy). But most of the time, it's like "let's see what new topics are on", not "who should I convert today"?

Face it, you almost never see anyone admit defeat anyway, so if that was my motivation, I'd get bored.

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