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Old 06-11-2003, 05:30 AM   #1
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Nightfall MP map

Hi all- these are some screens of a new CTF/FFA map I have tentatively titled Nightfall, after an old Dark Forces mod (yes, I said Dark Forces) I did a while back called The Dark Tide II: Nightfall. The layout is based on an Imperial Garrison on Tatooine commanded by Prefect Talmont.

A Battle of Gall mp3 might accompany this.













Please note- these screens were updated on 07-16-03.

Last edited by Patrick_H; 07-16-2003 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 06-11-2003, 05:36 AM   #2
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Well hot damn! That is looking extremely slick--very nice architecture, Patrick. That first screenshot had me worried, but the others laid those worries to rest; it looks like it really captures the "wholistic" feeling of a well-designed structure, both inside and out. Can't wait to play it!
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Old 06-11-2003, 08:05 AM   #3
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Hot damn ... thats one nice map you got there It has some Tribes feel on it ... maybe you should rerelease it to JA when it comes out to get those walkers playable Only the lighting seems a bit wrong .. over bright that is but everything else is just great.


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Old 06-11-2003, 12:53 PM   #4
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Very very nice...This map has a great sense of setting, and I love maps where you can go inside and out, and use the whole area to your advantage. Good work! When can I download it?


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Old 06-12-2003, 12:17 AM   #5
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I've got a subterranean area to build connecting the lower deck of the shuttle platform to the main garrison building. It will give give a second set of routes from the red flag to blue flag areas. I would also like to add some custom textures- so maybe in a month it will be ready.

I'm not sure which screens appear "over bright" though. My monitor isn't perfect, but I don't see any problem areas so far(?).
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Old 06-12-2003, 09:19 AM   #6
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Darken the outside area. It seems too bright to me too.

Looks great otherwise. Good Job


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Old 06-12-2003, 12:26 PM   #7
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It looks like something Wedge might make.

And that's most definitely a compliment. I like the skybox. Be careful not to repeat the base's outer hull texture too much, though. It looks a little overused.

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Old 06-12-2003, 12:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick_H
I've got a subterranean area to build connecting the lower deck of the shuttle platform to the main garrison building. It will give give a second set of routes from the red flag to blue flag areas.
Do I smell a hint of asymmetrical CTF in there?!?!

I think the lighting is fine. Reminds me of the JK levels on the Valley of the Jedi planet. Nice skybox, by the way, it fits perfectly with the map, did you make that yourself?


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Old 06-12-2003, 03:50 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the critical attention. I want this to be a good map.

I went back to look at the map's lighting. It's currently lit with a 35 ambient light, and the skybox's shader is set to match the altitude and azimuth of the suns seen in the skybox. I suppose I could reduce the ambient to 25, but I'm wary of reducing it too much for visibility/playability reasons. I can do a BSP relight to shorten the compile time if I'm just tweaking lighting, correct?

I'm trying to go for a mood at dusk in the summertime, when the sun is setting, and the automatically timed streetlights in the neighboorhood have turned on although there is still a fair amount of daylight left.

The skybox I made in Bryce 4, Photoshopped in a second sun, and then made a shader that matched the sun settings used in Bryce. I won't change those settings, because they match- but I guess the ambient worldspawn lighting should darken the shadows, eh?

Eldritch, are you saying that the texture used in the buildings outer struts is overused? I was taking a cue from the outside of the Kejim installation, which was built using only a handful of textures. I'm used to seeing too much variety in textures as visually too busy. I think its better they look good as a set- i.e. greyish-blue metal together, greyish metal together, etc.
Oh well.

As for the CTF design, no- it is actually symmetrical. I don't feel like I'm up to trying to balance out that kind of a map right now.
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Old 06-12-2003, 07:41 PM   #10
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Wow...I like the inside/outside...it is rare to find a good map with both interior and exterior areas...but this looks like it will be one.


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Old 06-13-2003, 02:17 PM   #11
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Alas, some people said the screenshots were too bright. I didn't believe them, but now that I have finally looked at the screens on my
Mac's monitor, I realize I forgot how bad that crap second-hand monitor is on the PC. I was compensating for a goddamn dim monitor! Now I've got to relight...and get a new monitor!
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Old 07-15-2003, 05:04 AM   #12
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I've been busy adjusting the lighting, and the subterranean areas have been built. It's playable now with botroutes for either CTF or FFA. I took Eldritch's comments in mind, and I am working on replacing most of the Jedi Outcast textures with my own custom work. I've only got one screen on hand for now, more to follow when I get the PC back on the DSL.


Last edited by Patrick_H; 07-16-2003 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 07-15-2003, 07:02 AM   #13
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Those textures look very good, if you can make custom textures of that quality you can really enchance the look of a location. It all looks very sand-swept now


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Old 07-15-2003, 10:06 AM   #14
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Once again I can't see the screenies, tho it sounds good.




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Old 07-15-2003, 11:32 AM   #15
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That shot is definitely sweet. And looks like it fits right in with the SW universe.

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Old 07-15-2003, 11:49 AM   #16
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I wish I could make textures like that...

Can't wait to see the rest of the new screenies. Have you been looking at this shot?


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Old 07-15-2003, 01:47 PM   #17
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No, I had not seen that screen yet, but it does make it clear to me that the colors of my skybox are too saturated, and the ground texture may be a bit too. Thanks for showing that to me- the color issues have been doubted for awhile. Now I'll have to go back and adjust the skybox- it is just too orange.

I am trying to make the garrison look like a backwater installation that looks a little worse for wear.
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Old 07-15-2003, 04:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick_H
No, I had not seen that screen yet, but it does make it clear to me that the colors of my skybox are too saturated, and the ground texture may be a bit too.
Well who says they're even on the same planet? It's up to you.


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Old 07-15-2003, 06:08 PM   #19
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I see your point, Wedge- but I know its not going to be on the planet of Orangina!
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Old 07-15-2003, 10:13 PM   #20
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Mmm... Orangina. Such a tasty and refreshing drink.

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Old 07-16-2003, 04:32 AM   #21
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Yeah I love it. Anyhow, I've got some updated screens finally, and I took down the texture pix (running out of space):









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Old 07-16-2003, 08:49 AM   #22
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This. Looks. Ace.


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Old 07-16-2003, 09:02 AM   #23
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NNNNooooo

Once again I can't see images.
They worked earlier in the day but not any more.
Is it just me or is it happening to other people?




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Old 07-16-2003, 09:02 AM   #24
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Dang the skybox on that most recent shuttle pic looks amazing!
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Old 07-16-2003, 09:04 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Omikron
NNNNooooo

Once again I can't see images.
They worked earlier in the day but not any more.
Is it just me or is it happening to other people?
I feel that is it just you. :-(


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Old 07-16-2003, 09:18 AM   #26
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Dang, it doesn't even work if I copy and pase the links.
I need to fix this.

*goes to try and work out how to fix it*




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Old 07-16-2003, 10:56 AM   #27
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I'm sorry the images aren't accessible to you Omikron. I know they behave a little strangely for me in IE. Yesterday the images were appearing as links only and today they appear in the thread- WEIRD.

I have a working beta done of the map. I'm just gonna fight through it with a friend of mine and see how it plays.

I've got another question for anyone around here. What's the average RAM installed on the PCs of those here using Radiant?
I think mine's a tad low. I've got a Dell XPS t450 upgraded to a PIII 1.4 GHz, but I've only got 256MB of RAM. This makes Photoshop run like crap, so all of my 2D art is done on my Mac, which runs Photoshop alot more smoothly. I think I should invest in some more RAM for the PC.
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Old 07-16-2003, 10:58 AM   #28
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Very awesome. The lighting especially has come a long way from the first screenshots. Totally boss.

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Old 07-16-2003, 11:31 AM   #29
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I really love the way the skybox matches up with the map, and the way the installation is built onto the exterior. *gets all nostalgic about Mars*

It looks like you're still using ambient lighting. A little is okay, but I think you should try to tone that down in favor of sky lighting and entity lighting. Ambient stuff is too "diffuse."

Great job. Nice brushwork, and the textures really compliment the map. Oh, and did I mention that skybox is sexy?


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Old 07-16-2003, 12:30 PM   #30
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great looking map, i know i cant wait to play it
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Old 07-16-2003, 12:54 PM   #31
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Yeah, I am using ambient lighting still. It's the only way I am able to decrease the starkness of the shadows. I was hoping it would come off as "dusty" lighting. It's set at 50 now I think. After I play it tonight on the other monitor we'll see how that goes. I've already got tons of light entities, so I'm not sure what I'll do.
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Old 07-16-2003, 05:04 PM   #32
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50 is probably just too much...if you're only looking to increase shadow brightness, 15 or 20 might be enough to do it.


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Old 07-16-2003, 05:24 PM   #33
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If you want some "fill" for your shadows, drop ambient down to "10," comment out the "q3map_surfacelight" line of your sky shader, add "q3map_skylight <intensity from old surfacelight line> 4" instead, then compile in q3map2 with -bounce 8. Depending on the result you get from that compile, you might want to throw a -bouncescale value in there of 2 or 3, perhaps.

In any case, avoid "ambient" values of over 15--everything just starts to suck.

By the way, this map is starting to look pretty damned great. Is that real alphashadow coming from those grates? Even if its faked, it looks nice.
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Old 07-16-2003, 09:33 PM   #34
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Thanks guys for for the advice. The strange thing is that my sky shader has the sun at a very low altitude and it is making the shadows very dark- it seems much darker than normal.

I have really got to start using Q3map2. JK2 Radiant takes about 6 hours to compile my map right now. Will Q3map2 offer a significant boost in speed?

I didn't notice that "q3map_surfacelight" line before. I have a lot left to learn about shaders. What is the difference between "surfacelight" and "skylight"?

Actually, the grate shadows are faked textures I did when I was on the DF Mod team last year. I can do much better stuff now. I have a new grate texture waiting for me to do a real alphashadow effect in that tunnel area later on. Once again, I have to play with Q3map2!
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Old 07-17-2003, 05:52 AM   #35
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I saw you have two suns on the skybox. With q3map2 you will be able to have two suns for lighting.

q3map_skylight is for making a more uniform (from-everywhere) lighting for skies. q3map_surfacelight just makes the covered surfaces to emit light.

Man, this map is looking goooood.


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Old 07-20-2003, 01:17 PM   #36
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Lately, I've not been impressed by any mapping efforts, but this one is exceptionally nice


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Old 07-21-2003, 03:24 AM   #37
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Wow, really? Thanks, that is high praise indeed. I hope you are not let down.

After studying Cardigan's Quake III Map Estatica, I have decided to include real alphashadows in a few hallways. It looks pretty cool so far, especially when you crank up the shadows _lightmapscale to 0.0625! That's probably a tad greedy of me though. Q3map2 does rock, so thanks everybody who steered me towards it. I have been doing the editing in JK2 Radiant and then the compiling with Q3map2 Toolz. The basic shadows on the ground look like crap in sof2map by comparison!

The map plays OK for me so far. Maybe a bit slower than I would like, but nothing to kill the fun factor. After playing it with a friend online with 3 bots (5 players) I got about 40 FPS in the complex central building area and about 50-60 FPS in the shuttle landing pads. This is on a PIII 1.4 GHz / GeForce III Ti. I gotta say, it was a blast playing my own map!
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Old 07-21-2003, 11:09 AM   #38
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Wow. Just saw this thread. It was said before but very nice architecture. It's so refreshing to see something that you can imagine existing in the real world. Lots and lots of juicy structure, supports and angles and not just a big textured box. Very detailed and very immersive. Great work!

-clu

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Old 07-21-2003, 08:39 PM   #39
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Man I really love your skybox. Also if you haven't already, stretch your glass textures to get rid of the "pixely" look. Wish I could come up with something this good


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Old 07-23-2003, 01:49 AM   #40
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Stretch the- oh, great idea! I didn't even think of how that could look better, I just assumed it looked as it was supposed to. Thanks!
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