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Old 07-03-2003, 12:24 PM   #1
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Anti-Homosexuality

After MikeDoggg2004's thread, using the word 'gay' in a very offensive way, I was just wondering... is there anyone in here who is homophobic? I mean, strongly anti-homosexuals?
By the way, this is a nice thread, not a place where people can come and insult the gay community. Any nastiness and I'll delete the whole thread.


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Old 07-03-2003, 12:29 PM   #2
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I personally dont think its wrong, but i do sometimes find it disturbing to see Gay people kissing......


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Old 07-03-2003, 12:35 PM   #3
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For the record, no. Not at all.
Now I hate to use this cliché, but "some of my best friends are gay" (I can't believe I just said that) consequentally I've got no problems with it. I know people who have, mind you.

Anyway, back on topic; I knew what Doggg meant when he referred to the game as 'gay', and I don't think he meant it in an offensive way. (not to the gay community at least). Although I can see why he was reprimanded for it. I use the term myself sometimes, although only in company that I know will understand what I mean.

I remember reading an interview with the creators of South Park once. They were asked about their usage of the word 'faggot' in the movie and TV series. One of them (can't remember which) said something along the lines of:
"I know lots of gay people who aren't faggots, and plenty of 'straight' people who are."
I know what he means.
Hopefully you will too.

Anyways, just my 2p's worth
Peace out,
B.




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Old 07-03-2003, 12:42 PM   #4
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Thats a good point B, i sometimes use the word gay when someone is being really obnoxious and i'll just say " Jeez, she/he is so gay" without even knowing he/she's sexual prefrences.


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Old 07-03-2003, 12:50 PM   #5
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I don't hate gay people, I just don't like homosexuality. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

I am not a "homophobe" because I am not scared of them, so don't point a finger at me saying I am.

I think this thread belongs in the senate chambers more then anywhere else.




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Old 07-03-2003, 01:25 PM   #6
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I'm not against gays. Just I think it to be unnatural. And since common people is what I see every single day, it's a bit not something that I look normally at. Stil let it be, just I don't like escalation from both sides when for example some company fires a man cauze he's a gay, or a gay using his sexual minority preference starts the court process for egocentric reasons or just to earn some money from his "title"
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Old 07-03-2003, 01:44 PM   #7
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i once saw two gay people at disneyland, STEREOTYPICAL gay too, tiny leather vest on one, tiny mesh shirt on the other, tight leather pants, and a leather hat (village people style) i was just like :quesbrn: and started shouting stuff at them because that was just wrong, you don't need to go around looking like that in DISNEYLAND, a family place, maybe it's different than wyoming but if they came here they'd probably be run out of town (by highschoolers and college kids mind you) people in wyoming are really STRONGLY against gay people (don't anyone say anything about The Incident, that's not the extent that we all go to to get our point across)

i'm not afraid of them, just don't want them around me because almost NONE of them realize that straight men don't wanna have to fight off the advances of guys. we DO have gay people that live in my town (like 5 or 6) and as long as they don't stare or look at someone in a way that makes them uncomfortable then it's all ok, one of them was checkin me out at mcdonalds one time (he's a manager) so i just shuffled behind my friends. personally i can't stand gay people because it's just not the natural way of life, as people here put it, don't enter the exit


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Old 07-03-2003, 01:53 PM   #8
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I don't hate gay people, I just don't like homosexuality. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.
Thats my view, I dont hate people that are gay and beat them with sticks, but I think it is wrong to be homosexual, because my God says it is.
AND, I think it wrong when gay people dress like ep2 said and goes to Disneyland? Its not right to dress like that in a kids place and walk around like that.


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Old 07-03-2003, 01:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Thrackan Solo
Thats my view, I dont hate people that are gay and beat them with sticks, but I think it is wrong to be homosexual, because my God says it is.
AND, I think it wrong when gay people dress like ep2 said and goes to Disneyland? Its not right to dress like that in a kids place and walk around like that.
it IS wrong, i never had to see that as a kid and i don't want my kid to see it, so let's make it NOT acceptable, i flat out said "HEY FAGS! GO PUT SOME CLOTHES ON, THERE'S KIDS AROUND HERE!"


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Old 07-03-2003, 02:14 PM   #10
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In Canada Gay mariage is finally legal. thats right I said FINALLY. I support the gay community. I myself am straight but I have a bisexual friend and a few lesbian friends.

As for those comments that homosexuality is un-natural.... animals from nature have homosexual acts allmost all the time. Watch TLC or Discovery Channel and you will eventually see a show that mentions it.

As for ep2 Anakin's little tantrum (sp?) at the gay couple in Disney Land. Why did you scream at them? Because of your personnal views and your believes that these people are corrpution the young? Thats like saying TV makes children stupid and playing video games makes them want to kill people.

I was with my girlfriend in plublic recently and I was giving her a hug and a few kisses. A 30 year old women was waiting for the bus with us and asked us not to show that type of emotions publicly in front of her children. That pissed me off and I bluntly said to her: "what corrupts more your children. the fact you smoke cigarettes around them or the fact that I can show emotions to an other person"

Back to the homosexuality topic. I have a friend who IS homophobe. When he herd Texas and a few other southern states banned sodomy (homosexual act of sex), however the supereme court overruled the law he said "ah dammit".

I asked him if he was homosexual and he started saying BS like oh no. I dont hate them I just hate it when i see or think of them kissing of having sex. I got fed up and told him to move there if that is his attitude.

People, throughout history there has been a social change and debates that had to be done in courts and protests. Languages, religion and skin colours had been the previous hurdles in society. The next one is homosexuality. Face it. Accept it. If not... just live with it and leave the gays amd lesbians alone.

thank you
-jackal


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Old 07-03-2003, 03:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I don't hate gay people, I just don't like homosexuality. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

I am not a "homophobe" because I am not scared of them, so don't point a finger at me saying I am.

I think this thread belongs in the senate chambers more then anywhere else.
Oh yeah the Bible thats a real compassionate book, according to them its wrong for pregnant women to have abortions to save themselves.

The Bible can't be interprated as literal, their homophobia was a result of the cultural norms of the time.
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Old 07-03-2003, 03:17 PM   #12
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anything which occurs in nature
is therfore natural by absolute deffinition
now some people like spiders some are afraid of them
same can said for snakes, lizards or any animal
some people like mountains while others like beaches
its a question of choice and geographic location.
best thing to do is if you are phobic about something
stay away from it, or some might think as I do, try to
become aware of and unafraid of phobia by mastering it.
this does mean change your sexuality, it means be aware
of other possibilities and look at them objectively.
not every dog you meet is going to bite you
(unless it is a hot dog, they are just waiting to rise up and take their revenge) no seriously despite sexual orientation people are people, you should always remeber that before you judge too harshly someone else.




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Old 07-03-2003, 03:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Murphy
Oh yeah the Bible thats a real compassionate book, according to them its wrong for pregnant women to have abortions to save themselves.

The Bible can't be interprated as literal, their homophobia was a result of the cultural norms of the time.
Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.




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Old 07-03-2003, 04:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheJackal
In Canada Gay mariage is finally legal. thats right I said FINALLY. I support the gay community. I myself am straight but I have a bisexual friend and a few lesbian friends.

As for those comments that homosexuality is un-natural.... animals from nature have homosexual acts allmost all the time. Watch TLC or Discovery Channel and you will eventually see a show that mentions it.

As for ep2 Anakin's little tantrum (sp?) at the gay couple in Disney Land. Why did you scream at them? Because of your personnal views and your believes that these people are corrpution the young? Thats like saying TV makes children stupid and playing video games makes them want to kill people.

I was with my girlfriend in plublic recently and I was giving her a hug and a few kisses. A 30 year old women was waiting for the bus with us and asked us not to show that type of emotions publicly in front of her children. That pissed me off and I bluntly said to her: "what corrupts more your children. the fact you smoke cigarettes around them or the fact that I can show emotions to an other person"

Back to the homosexuality topic. I have a friend who IS homophobe. When he herd Texas and a few other southern states banned sodomy (homosexual act of sex), however the supereme court overruled the law he said "ah dammit".

I asked him if he was homosexual and he started saying BS like oh no. I dont hate them I just hate it when i see or think of them kissing of having sex. I got fed up and told him to move there if that is his attitude.

People, throughout history there has been a social change and debates that had to be done in courts and protests. Languages, religion and skin colours had been the previous hurdles in society. The next one is homosexuality. Face it. Accept it. If not... just live with it and leave the gays amd lesbians alone.

thank you
-jackal
werd. and that lady you talked about. i had a similiar problem accept the lady and man were racial (my gf is japanese) they said "how could you do that in public, and furthermore how could you do it outside your race?"

I hate texas. this place sucks it's full of biggots. I have to help defend friends when these arrogant rednecks pick on them because they are arab,asian,gay,punks(like punk rockers, like me), and so many other things. of course like any other country the men don't care if it's lesbians they just hate gay men. this biggotry disturbs me alot. I'm very paranoid from all of this.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 07-03-2003, 04:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
it IS wrong, i never had to see that as a kid and i don't want my kid to see it, so let's make it NOT acceptable, i flat out said "HEY FAGS! GO PUT SOME CLOTHES ON, THERE'S KIDS AROUND HERE!"
Thats a little harsh man, Im not afraid of homos just I dont feel comfortable. You shouldnt "persecute" them for it. Just maybe ask them nicely to maybe put something more appropriate on.


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Old 07-03-2003, 05:25 PM   #16
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Saying oh that is gay...or something has really nothing to do with gay people....it's just a different way to use a word...
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Old 07-03-2003, 05:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
it IS wrong, i never had to see that as a kid and i don't want my kid to see it, so let's make it NOT acceptable, i flat out said "HEY FAGS! GO PUT SOME CLOTHES ON, THERE'S KIDS AROUND HERE!"
Lucky I wasnt there, you would have gone home with a broken nose.

Yes, there are kids around. But you're making the problem even worse by shouting "fags" at the top of your lungs. There are kids around, they dont need to hear that. Also, you're drawing attention to the very people that you dont want kids looking at.

I have no problem with gay people. I dont mind if they wear tight clothes or funny hats, because they're just clothes. They're just catering to a certain fashion. You dont flip out and go screaming when a girl wears a tight pair of jeans and a tanktop.

I only get bothered when they go making out with each other in public, but not any more bothered than if two straight people were making out in public. I also dont really like it when they hit on me, but it's only happened once, and he was really just messing with my head (found out later he did like me, but he wasnt gonna make an issue because he knew I'm straight).

The idea that gay people would be "run out" of a town just for being gay is really a throwback to times of intolerance. Ignorant people doing ignorant things.

Such is life.


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Old 07-03-2003, 06:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.
Again that can't be taken literally, The Bible isn't word for word true and cannot be taken literally, that story was a myth, homosexuality isn't wrong, and accepting homosexuality is the greatest showing of Christian Love, that one is accepting something that has been so reviled over the years.
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Old 07-03-2003, 06:23 PM   #19
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ep2 Anakin your ignorance sickens me, it's that type of attitude that caused the Holocaust, my advice to you is the next time you want to give your opinion go jump off a cliff.


* Okay... I don't really like ep2 Anakin's hatred either, but since this thing landed in the Senate, please try to keep it civil, huh? --- Skin

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Old 07-03-2003, 07:07 PM   #20
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Alright, before we begin, I think you all should know that I am a homosexual guy. There. I said it.

The Bible also teaches us about love, doesn't it? Now, if two people love each other enough, what should stop them from expressing themselves? If anything, gay relationships are much deeper and more meaningful than straight relationships. Think about it - how many straight guys have let their girlfriends go off saying "It's a girl thing"? When two guys are together, they both understand each other much better, making for a much more open and meaningful partnership.
People seem to have this preconception that homosexual men are only out for fun. They sleep around, not really having lasting relationships. Let me say that I've been with the same guy for three years now, and I love him more than anything in the world. There isn't a thing I would not do for him, hell, I would even die for him. Now, this sounds just like any other guy and girl falling in love to me. So what's the problem?

Hoexual men using their sexuality as some title, a way of gaining special treatment, is quite wrong. I'm nothing special, I'm just an ordinary guy. I have an ordinary job. I drive a middle-of-the-range car. I have an ordinary house. I never use the fact that I am gay in order to draw attention to myself or those around me. That is something I hate.

Someone mentioned gay guys chatting up straight ones. Here lies our problem (yes, I admit it). Straight guys walk down the street, checking out the girls who pass. It's exactly the same for homosexuals, except from the fact that we check out the guys. We can't help it, especially if we don't know if the guy is gay or not. My best friend is straight, and when I told him about my sexuality he gave me a huge hug... there is a big difference between close friendships and relationships, you see. My best friend trusts me not to do anything, and I trust him not to go ballistic.
Public displays of homosexual affection is something I try to steer clear of. When Anthony and myself are walking down a street, we won't hold hands or wear odd clothing. I don't want to start a confrontation because I don't want to offend anyone passing in the street, since I don't know if they are anti-gay or not. I'm not here to start a huge argument, and I'm not going out to find a fight. If people have a problem, I'll steer clear. My problem is that I'm as bent as one of Uri Geller's spoons - everyone seems to know I'm gay before I meet them! Ah well...

I'm hoping that the people in the LucasForums who have posted here won't do anything nasty in the street (or at DisneyLand, for that matter). I can understand parents wanting to protect their children, and I can understand how homosexuality can be viewed as unnatural. That's you're own perception. Me, I'm happy with my life and I'm madly in love with my boyfriend. What should be anyone's problem with that?

Thank you.


I think I'll find another way, there's so much more to know,
I guess I'll die another day, it's not my time to go.

For every sin I'll have to pay, a time to work, a time to play,
I think I'll find another way, it's not my time to go.
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Old 07-03-2003, 07:19 PM   #21
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Me, I'm happy with my life and I'm madly in love with my boyfriend. What should be anyone's problem with that?
And herein lies the most important thing of all. Ones happiness. If you're doing something or living a certain way that makes you happy, then how can anyone argue with it. And one certainly argue that love is wrong. Love is never wrong.

I think it's very cool and brave of a homosexual guy to be able to discuss something that so many ignorant people have such a huge problem with. Big props to you, Die Another Day, and any other homosexual people on these boards who choose to speak up.


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Old 07-03-2003, 07:34 PM   #22
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Thanks, ShockV1.89. Kind words indeed.

Just in reference to your signature - Go Banana indeed.

See... a sense of humour after all.


I think I'll find another way, there's so much more to know,
I guess I'll die another day, it's not my time to go.

For every sin I'll have to pay, a time to work, a time to play,
I think I'll find another way, it's not my time to go.
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Old 07-03-2003, 08:09 PM   #23
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Well, quite frankly, the Bible clearly says a man shall not sleep with a man the way a man sleeps with a woman.
Its wrong, its a sin. There is no way around it. Now I am not saying that I hate you DaD but I think what you are doing is sinful but I am not going to point at you and call you names.
But I really hate it when gay men hit on straight men.


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Old 07-03-2003, 08:22 PM   #24
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What trips me out is what christian is to say that it's wrong?...people are born this way...there is nothing they can do about it....just like anyone who is straight cannot do anything about that...it's natural.....but the point is don't christians believe god has something to do with birth?...so if it makes you gay then???


I say "it" because if there was a god that's the only way you could describe it....
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Old 07-03-2003, 08:24 PM   #25
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"I don't hate black people, I just don't like racial differences. I believe in the Bible and it's teachings strongly, and according to it, it's a sin, and I try my best not to live in sinful ways.

I am not a "racist" because I am not scared of them, so don't point a finger at me saying I am."

"people in wyoming are really STRONGLY against black people (...) personally i can't stand black people because it's just not the natural way of life"

"Thats my view, I dont hate people that are black and beat them with sticks, but I think it is wrong to be black, because my God says it is. Thats a little harsh man, Im not afraid of blacks just I dont feel comfortable. You shouldnt "persecute" them for it."

For the love of God, listen to yourselves. It's disgusting.

DAD, best of luck to your and your boyfriend. Hope you never meet guys like these.

EDIT: Thrackan, the Bible was clearly written by jingoist bigots. 'Coz God would never let such pathetic differences interfere with his master plan.


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Old 07-03-2003, 08:42 PM   #26
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Let me remind you christians that according to the Bible, all homosexuals and those who support them should be put to death. (Romans, 1:28-32).

Why do you have to hate homosexuality just because a book says that you should? And the same book also says you should kill everyone with different religious beliefs (Deuteronomy 17:2-7), it says that all who obeys the law are cursed (Galatians, 3:10) and it also says that God never forgive sins (Joshua, 24:19).

Please don't blindly follow the Bible. It is a book written by humans.

Quote:
Well, quite frankly, the Bible clearly says a man shall not sleep with a man the way a man sleeps with a woman.
But that is impossible, isn't it? As far as I know, sleeping between men is mostly anal, wich is not the way a man sleeps with a woman.

So according to that quote from the Bible, homosexuality isn't really a sin.

------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, away with religious issues. I have no problems with homosexuality, and I think people should be allowed to love just the gender you want, really. And I really disapprove the "yelling at gays at Disneyland" thing, because that would only show the children that homosexuality is strange and bad, wich it isn't. There is no problem in children seeing that it actually is possible for two of the same gender to love each other.

However, I want homosexuals to remember that a child needs two parents, a father and a mother, and not two of either. That is just the way it is supposed to be, and I do not feel that homosexuals shoulød have equal rights in adopting children and the like.

But as I said, I have no problem with homosexuality.


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Old 07-03-2003, 08:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ep2 Anakin
we DO have gay people that live in my town (like 5 or 6)
5 or 6 in a whole town? Wow, that's fer sure a lot, bubba.




Many more. Maybe they're afraid of telling anyone?

Quote:
and as long as they don't stare or look at someone in a way that makes them uncomfortable then it's all ok
I'd take what compliments I can get. I'd feel honoured if a guy hit on me - I'm either hot, or he finds me otherwise attractive. What's wrong with that?

Quote:
However, I want homosexuals to remember that a child needs two parents, a father and a mother, and not two of either. That is just the way it is supposed to be, and I do not feel that homosexuals shoulød have equal rights in adopting children and the like.
Why that? Are you gonna start using the "unnatural" argument as well? You don't think homosexual parents can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones? You assume their kids will turn gay or socially mal-adjusted from it?

Meh.


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Old 07-03-2003, 09:33 PM   #28
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Originally posted by C'jais

Why that? Are you gonna start using the "unnatural" argument as well?
No. I mean, it is unnatural, but what isn't? Computers are unnatural, so are guitars, dictionaries and religion. This has never been a problem to me.

Quote:
You don't think homosexual parents can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones?
You don't think a single mother can be as genuinely loving as couples? You don't think a person who has gotten both legs and both arms chopped off can be as genuinely loving as people with their limbs safe in place? You don't think a drug abuser can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones?

This has nothing to do with feelings against homosexuals. This has something to do with the fact that children is better off with one father and one mother. It is wrong to make laws about homosexuals having equal rights to adobt children, simply because there is a difference. Not that the next statement have something to do with homosexuality, but would you let someone adobt a boy if you knew they were going to raise it like a girl, treat it like a girl, and so on? The same with girls if you knew they would raise him like a boy. I'm not saying homosexuals raise boys as girls, not at all, but certain things are better off the way they are meant to be. Homosexual couples have chosen to come together and love the same gender, but children can't choose to be raised by two of a kind. Just as a boy can't choose if he want to be raised as a girl, etc.

I guess most of us will agree that homosexuals raising a child will not be the same as a father and a mother raising a child. And I believe it is wrong to force children who have no choice to get raised by two fathers or two mothers.

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You assume their kids will turn gay or socially mal-adjusted from it?
No.


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Old 07-03-2003, 09:54 PM   #29
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I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.

I was pointing out that I do not condone homosexual acts, and I stated my reason why. Others say they don't care about homosexuality. Why ignore them? Because they agree with you? Please, don't turn this once-was calm debate into a free for all. Thank you.

As for you, ep2 An, whatch what you say, because talking like that could get you banned.




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Old 07-03-2003, 10:04 PM   #30
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Originally posted by obi-wan13
Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.
Firstly: It's "Sodom" and "Gomorrah". ^_~

Secondly: Not to shoot you down, obi, but here's why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and homosexuality was never mentioned as a reason.

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And the LORD said, "Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave, I will go down now and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know."
Then the men (me: these "men" are the angels going to judge) turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD. And Abraham came near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there were fifty righteous within the city; would You also destroy the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous that were in it? Far be it from You to do such a thing as this, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous should be as the wicked; far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
So the LORD said, "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes."
Then Abraham answered and said, "Indeed now, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose there were five less than the fifty righteous; would You destroy all of the city for lack of five?"
So He said, "If I find there forty-five, I will not destroy it."
And he spoke to Him yet again and said, "Suppose there should be forty found there?"
So He said, "I will not do it for the sake of forty."
Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Suppose thirty should be found there?"
So He said, "I will not do it if I find thirty there."
And he said, "Indeed now, I have taken it upon myself to speak to the Lord: Suppose twenty should be found there?"
So He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of twenty."
Then he said, "Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?"
And He said, "I will not destroy it for the sake of ten." So the LORD went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.
Of course, there were not even ten righteous people in all of Sodom, and a bunch of men from Sodom tried to gang-rape the angels.

But "homosexuality" was never mentioned as a reason that the cities were destroyed.

Think of that what you will, everyone.

(Oh, and, because I don't want to get really involved here, I have ignored the rest of the posts in this thread. Sorry )


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Old 07-03-2003, 10:04 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Breton
No. I mean, it is unnatural, but what isn't? Computers are unnatural, so are guitars, dictionaries and religion. This has never been a problem to me.
Unnatural this, unnatural that. Anything that exists is by definition natural so there's no point arguing that.

Quote:
You don't think a single mother can be as genuinely loving as couples? You don't think a person who has gotten both legs and both arms chopped off can be as genuinely loving as people with their limbs safe in place? You don't think a drug abuser can be as genuinely loving as heterosexual ones?
Watch where you're going. You're saying homosexual people are lacking some sort of parental skill (which they're quite obviously not), or that they have some sort of handicap when it comes to raising kids, no matter how intelligent, caring or parental they may be. That's nonsense, and I'm thinking you know this already.

Quote:
This has nothing to do with feelings against homosexuals. This has something to do with the fact that children is better off with one father and one mother. It is wrong to make laws about homosexuals having equal rights to adobt children, simply because there is a difference.
So it is about it being "unnatural", inherently wrong or otherwise following some dogma. Breton, you're smart enough to know this - what you just said made no more sense than any religious person's justification for his gay-hate.

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but would you let someone adobt a boy if you knew they were going to raise it like a girl, treat it like a girl, and so on? The same with girls if you knew they would raise him like a boy. I'm not saying homosexuals raise boys as girls, not at all, but certain things are better off the way they are meant to be.
That's a ridiculous argument and you're well aware of it. "Meant to be"? C'mon, you can do better than that.

Would you let someone raise a kid if you knew there was an almost 50% chance that the parents would divorce withing the next 5 years? Do you know how many kids would give their arm for being adopted in a loving, caring family with no health problems, socially stable etc?

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I guess most of us will agree that homosexuals raising a child will not be the same as a father and a mother raising a child. And I believe it is wrong to force children who have no choice to get raised by two fathers or two mothers.
I'm actually curious if it'd be possible to dig up some facts about this "wrongness".


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Old 07-03-2003, 10:08 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.
But what separates your truths from other truths? If someone seriously said that homosexuality is bad because it breaks with the Jedi Code, would you not find it funny that people takes Star Wars so seriously and use it in other debates?

BTW, please quote me where I said you were disgusting. Sorry, but I can't seem to find it. Neither have I ever meant it either.

Quote:
I was pointing out that I do not condone homosexual acts, and I stated my reason why. Others say they don't care about homosexuality. Why ignore them? Because they agree with you?
Me, like many, find it difficult to argue with those who already agree with you

I was merely pointing out that I did not understand why you thought the way you did, and I, like you, stated my reasons why.

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Please, don't turn this once-was calm debate into a free for all. Thank you.
I haven't tried, nor will I try to turn this into a flame war. I was critisizing the credibility of the Bible, wich I do not consider a wrong act.

But sorry if I upset anyone, BTW. I am not critisizing any persons, even though I do critisize the credibility of their beliefs, wich I consider a normal action, and not something to get upset about.


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Old 07-03-2003, 10:12 PM   #33
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Actually Breton, my post was mainly directed towards C'Jais.

"listen to yourselves, it's disgusting. DoD, good luck to you and your boyfriend, and I hope you never meet guys like these."

That's what set me off.

C'Jais, I didn't say I hope every homosexual gets shot in the foot by a runaway taxi driver. All I said was that I don't like homosexuality. I know several homosexuals within my own neighborhood, and if I see them walking down the street, and I am outside, I won't spit at them, yell at them, ot torment them, I will wave and them and say something like "have a nice day" as I would if it where anyone else. Some of my friends could be homosexual, and I wouldn't even know/care. Some of my friends smoke pot, and I don't like that, but that won't effect my friendship with them




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Old 07-03-2003, 10:14 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by obi-wan13
I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.
Sorry for jumping the gun so quickly, but I'm tired of hearing Christians saying that "homosexuality is a chosen sin, not something inherently natural in the person".

Priests used "Biblical data" to support the oppression of blacks a mere 100 years ago, and this is no different.

Interpret the Bible the way you want, but try not to come across as a jingoist in front of innocent people.

The Bible is such a huge book - if it was up to me, I'd do some severe copy 'n pasting to interpret things the way I see them. If something didn't speak to my heart it surely wasn't inspired by God and thus should be ignored. Taking the whole thing at face value is naive, IMHO.


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Old 07-03-2003, 10:27 PM   #35
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Originally posted by C'jais
Unnatural this, unnatural that. Anything that exists is by definition natural so there's no point arguing that.
Guess that explains it better. But it has still no importance on my beliefs.

Quote:
Watch where you're going. You're saying homosexual people are lacking some sort of parental skill (which they're quite obviously not), or that they have some sort of handicap when it comes to raising kids, no matter how intelligent, caring or parental they may be. That's nonsense, and I'm thinking you know this already.
If you believe that's what I was saying, I'm afraid you have misunderstood. I think that homosexuals can be just as good parents as anyone else, I just want you to remember that it is the children who have first priority here, and not the parents.

Quote:
So it is about it being "unnatural", inherently wrong or otherwise following some dogma. Breton, you're smart enough to know this - what you just said made no more sense than any religious person's justification for his gay-hate.
Each adoption case is unique, and each adoption case should be treated uniquely. I do not want homosexuals to have less right than heterosexuals, but the equality thing does not fit into a good system, where everything has to be treated induvidially.

Quote:
That's a ridiculous argument and you're well aware of it. "Meant to be"? C'mon, you can do better than that.

Would you let someone raise a kid if you knew there was an almost 50% chance that the parents would divorce withing the next 5 years? Do you know how many kids would give their arm for being adopted in a loving, caring family with no health problems, socially stable etc?
I have already stated my opinions about divorce in another thread some time ago, so I guess it will be little point in telling them again.

Commenting this would again bring me back to the previous answer, the ting about each case being treated induvidially. We both know that divorce, health problems, socially unstableness also happens in homosexual couples.

Look, I'm not saying that homosexuality causes bad parents. I am only saying that it is IMO a bit naive not having it in mind in adoption cases at all. Homosexual couples are not the same as heterosexual couples, and must be treated so, for good or bad.

Inviduality is important.


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Old 07-03-2003, 10:56 PM   #36
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I personally dont think its wrong, but i do sometimes find it disturbing to see Gay people kissing......
May I ask why? I seriously want to know if you feel that way because someone told you it's gross or if it is your own idea.

I assume you dislike female best friends who kiss too? No? So then is it about the fact that they are homosexuals or the fact that they are best friends? If two boys were just friends and they both even had girlfriends, and they kissed, would it still be gross to you?

Is it gross to you when two girlfriends kiss only, but not when two female best friends kiss?

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I hate it when a "gay" harrasses a "straight" boy.
So do I. But guys harass straight people too, and "homosexuals" are less likely to molest children than "heterosexuals".

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Homosexuality was one of the many reasons that God destroyed the cities of Saddom and Gamhorra.

I think that's proof enough that God is not for Homosexuality, not just the veiws of the time.
The Bible is FULL OF contradictions. According to it, God kills every first-born in Egypt and then drowns a battalion of the Egyptian army. Then he tells Moses that it is wrong to kill.

I urge you to question your ideals. Loving homosexuals will not land you in Hell. Do not follow the Bible, or any other leader, without being critical. Ever.

When it comes to this stuff, my school is great. You can be totally open and nobody is going to come after you for it (my observation is that nobody is against it but the christian fundamentalists). A female friend of mine just fell in love with a girl, and wasn't bullied or harassed. Okay, she was teased by us, but we teased her (in a friendly way of course, we are friends) when she fell in love with a guy too, so it does not count, does it?

What I have seen is that tolerance breeds tolerance. If you are the only person in a class who hates "gay people", you will most likely end up giving up your bad beliefs because everyone else will stop you and put you straight if you keep on hating boyfriends.

Hate against homosexuality is thaught. Think about another thing I've noticed: Little children don't only think "homosexual" relationships are gross, they also think that boy-girl-relationships are gross. If a 7-year old sees a girl tounge-kiss a guy, he'll think it's gross and turn away. Then they slowly learn by themselves that there's nothing wrong with it, because they aren't thaught otherwise. Homosexuality is the same way. If children saw more "gays" in the street, and were never told that "gays" were different, there'd be less or no homophobia. Don't even tell people it's normal. That's the last thing you should do. If you're questioned about "why that guy kissed that other guy", say something liked "what's so odd about that?", not "yes, it's weird, but tolerate it". The bold part is what sticks to the child's mind, not the underlined part.

Lastly, I advise you to read the book called the Wave. It'll teach you that it's more easy than you think to give people bad attitudes about stuff and plant cruel ideas in peoples' minds.

Quote:
I can use the Bible if I want to because in my eyes, it's the truth. It may not be in your case, but don't jump down my throat telling me that I am disgusting and all of that bolshevik.
Why not? You said homosexuality was wrong.. hypocrite.

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No. I mean, it is unnatural, but what isn't? Computers are unnatural, so are guitars, dictionaries and religion. This has never been a problem to me.
No, it's not "unnatural" more than a Jew or an African with dark skin is unnatural. Love to humans is a feeling that's supposed to arise happiness, lest homosexuality and bisexuality and fetishism wouldn't exist (as these do not lead to children).

Quote:
I guess most of us will agree that homosexuals raising a child will not be the same as a father and a mother raising a child. And I believe it is wrong to force children who have no choice to get raised by two fathers or two mothers.
Why? Joint custody is wrong and harmful to a child, but still legal. And the government does nothing to stop it.

Children living with single parents don't live lives that are as good as the lives of children living with both parents, yet, the governmnent does nothing to bring the divorce rate down. There's no mandatory education on Family Development.

Pedophilias, rapists, and murderers certainly don't occur to me as the best parents, but sure, let them adopt children . Or am I the only one who thinks it skewed that you think a killer and a rapist should be given a chance, and not two boys who have done nothing wrong?

Name one study that shows that it's bad for a child to live with two moms. I personally know that "gay" relationships on average are more stable than "straight" relationships, which would mean they would raise the child in a better way, not in a worse way.

I wish the US governmnent and other governments would stop being so damn facist and stop pulling assumptions out of thin air. Hell, Americans and Europeans used to think it was wrong for light-skinned people to live with dark-skinned people, didn't they? It's all about ignorance and fear for my god's sake! Oh, and the first amendment (free religion) grants homosexuals the right to marry, no matter what the Bible says. Marriage is a religious act.

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Old 07-03-2003, 11:14 PM   #37
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Regarding the use of the word "gay". My brother and sister are both gay, and I brought this topic up to them. They both agree that there are two seperate meanings for the word gay. There is gay, meaning something that isn't good. And there is gay, refering to homosexuals. And they both use both terms. So hense, there really isn't anything wrong with using the word "gay" in a negative or possitive manner. Just no gay bashing.


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Old 07-03-2003, 11:25 PM   #38
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Absolutely Breton, that is very much the case here.

Individuality - The aggregate of qualities and characteristics that distinguish one person or thing from others; character: choices that were intended to express his individuality.

Now, I could get very riled up here about this particular topic, as I have very strong views on it, but I have found it increasingly interesting scrolling down this page as to how different people view the subject. They each have their certain individual opinions, and must be respected seperately.

Obviously, from just glancing at this thread, homosexuality is a very controversial topic nowadays, but it is more openly expressed, more freely discussed, and generally, more widespread. We have lived in a society for thousands of years in which concrete rules are set to ensure a sense of continuity and order. Homosexuality is one "breach" of "God's code" that has gradually become a bigger issue today.

Now, the first problem I have is with that word "breach". Are we saying that the same rules that apply to crimes such as murder and theft should be treated the same way as homosexuality? Probably not that bluntly, but the question remains: is being gay in fact a crime against God and society?

We live in a world, although built on rules, has developed as of late, breaking boundaries, opening up to new possibilities. The advancing surge of technology has established that our world is constantly changing in order to broaden our horizans. We are gradually moving away from this sense of order, into a new realm of emotional expression. As for the whole religious issue, and concerns about God's "beliefs" - I don't feel comfortable to comment, since I am not very religious, and probably won't understand the importance of these "rules" to those who are.

I believe 'Jais when he says that "anything that exists is by definition natural so there's no point arguing that". Homosexuality is in fact, I believe, a natural development of emotion and sexuality amongst both humans and other animals (which has been proven). Just like we evolved from ape-like beings into the dominant species of this planet, we continue to develop both physically and mentally, adopting different and individual perspectives on certain topics (in this case, sexuality). I don't think it would be any use denying the fact that homosexuality is frowned upon because some people are afraid of breaking this rule that has been set against the role of evolution. Believe it or not, being gay does not have to be defined as "abnormal", because it is normal (if normal means a natural course), because it is simply a slight change in the way we view this thing we call "sexuality".

As for the whole "homosexuals don't make as good parents as heterosexuals" - how can you judge people so generally and stereotypically? Being a good parent has absolutely nothing, or very little to do with which gender you are more attracted to. Some heterosexuals are just as bad, or maybe worse as parents than some homosexuals - sexuality has no bearing on the morality of a person.

I think what gets to me is the way in which people are labelled and judged so harshly, dependant on so minor details. The main concern here shouldn't be as to what religion someone belongs to, or what colour their skin is, or what sexuality they prefer, but based on the personality of that particular individual. Everyone is different, you cannot just bung people into groups.

Let me ask you, what about bi-sexuals? Do you have the same view about them as you do about homosexuals? To be attracted to someone is not a disease, you must consider the whole spectrum, as there are different degrees of emotion, not set groups. Mankind has done a good job at categorising life under numerous headings...I believe that we should shed this ordered and strict view on such topics, and focus on what really matters. We are all individuals - we should not be judged so harshly. Our lives are all about making choices, and some just make different ones than others.


Then again, that is just my own opinion, so don't hurt me because of it ^^; I apologise for the rather lengthy post XD


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Old 07-03-2003, 11:43 PM   #39
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Why not? You said homosexuality was wrong.. hypocrite.
Because I believe it is wrong. How am I being a hypocrit for stating my opinion? That is the exact OPPOSITE of a hypocrit.




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Old 07-04-2003, 12:56 AM   #40
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to be honest i have better things to do with my time than worry about someone elses love life.

i have gay friends and as far as i can tell they arent so different to straight folk, at the end of the day people just wanna be happy.

the thing that can be annoying though is over the top campness and mincing around like a fairy. It just seems that sometimes these camp dudes are "trying" to be as gay as they possibly can be.

manly lesbians do scare the crap out of me though


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