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Old 07-04-2003, 12:41 PM   #1
El Sitherino
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War

what do you think really starts war.

I know (atleast in my mind) that it is greed. right down in the heart of war is greed.


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Old 07-04-2003, 01:10 PM   #2
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Re: War

Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
what do you think really starts war.

I know (atleast in my mind) that it is greed. right down in the heart of war is greed.
Greed is definately one of the greatest causes, though there are others like ideology and need, yet even those can originate from greed if you trace back far enough. Though deepest down I believe it to originate from necessity.

War, or rather conflict, is a third of a cycle of necessity for the survival of the species. Conflict begets evolution begets growth begets conflict.


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Old 07-04-2003, 01:18 PM   #3
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what causes war?

easy:- idiots


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Old 07-04-2003, 02:10 PM   #4
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Well, 95% of all wars have been started due to one reason: Fear.

War isn't a brave thing, quite the opposite. The Iraqi war was done because people feared what Saddam might do. WW2 was started because people feared Hitler's agressive expansion, wich was done due to fear of others than the arian race. WW1 was started basically because all the superpowers feared each other.

Countless others too. War in Afghanistan (people feared the terrorists), crusades (people feared the non-christian) and pretty much most wars.

Anger also have a major role in wars, but anger is mostly a product of fear anyway.


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Old 07-04-2003, 03:29 PM   #5
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The advent of the nation-state also solidified the concept of the "other."

This is how a nation unifies it's populace, by giving them a common enemy (the "other") to band together against.

As useful as this tool is for creating national unity, pride, common purpose, and motivation (i.e. think communists of the pre-1990's), it eventually can lead to war as the government grows quickly to believe its propaganda and the populace fears the "other."

During the 1970's and 80's, I recall people using the word "communist" as a form of profanity: "What are you? Some kind of communist? Get a job!" or "That commie bastard!"

These days, the word "communist" is replaced by "terrorist" because the "other" is any brown-person-who-doesn't-speak-Spanish. Especially if they have obvious Muslim culture in their dress or habits.

It's interesting that evolution of a species takes millions of years. We are essentially the same hominids that roamed the Earth 10,000 years ago, but what's evolved is our information, technology, and ability to destroy. If wisdom doesn't also evolve, we may be the end of ourselves.


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Old 07-04-2003, 03:41 PM   #6
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War starts usually as many have stated, fear. Sometimes, there are other reasons.

Greed- I take your supplies!
Resistance- You can't rule me! I quit!
conquest/imperialism- all your base are belong to us
Insanity- RABBITS! KILL ALL OF THE RABBITS! (you get the idea, i'm sure)

Then there are some wars that are not justifiable, and are meaningless.




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Old 07-04-2003, 11:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Countless others too. War in Afghanistan (people feared the terrorists), crusades (people feared the non-christian) and pretty much most wars.
Uhm, first of all Afghanistan started that war, not the United States. 9/11, anyone?

The USA then went into Afghanistan to eliminate those who attacked New York City and killed almost 3000 civilians. They didn't attack Afghanistan because they were afraid of what the terrorists might do, but because they realized bin Laden had to be destroyed after murdering almost 3000 people. It was more about revenge than about fear of future attacks, thrust me. If they were simply afraid of bin Laden, they would have attacked him well before 9/11.

And the Crusades were about fanaticism and hate, not fear, IMO.

I agree with your point, but I have to disagree with your choice of analogies.

Iraq, however, is all about fear. Fear of being weak, of making another mistake like the one with bin Laden. Fear of the other guy.

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Old 07-05-2003, 05:44 AM   #8
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Sexual repression. If people got laid more often, they would be much more mellow and less likely to make violent decisions.



But seriously, I do think that's a large part of it. I would estimate that if each person in the world was sexually "satisfied" at least twice a day, there would be far, far less violence.

If anyone wants to read a book that deals with this particular theory, read "Quozl" by Alan Dean Foster. Awesome book. An alien race comes to earth, and they have a prior history of insanely violent, bloody wars. But they learned to "couple," as they call it, very frequently, and they are now the most laid back, peaceful race in the galaxy. Read it, you wont regret it.


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Old 07-05-2003, 06:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Uhm, first of all Afghanistan started that war, not the United States. 9/11, anyone?
That is like saying Serbia started WW1. A country is not to blame if a person does a terrorist act. Anyway, they didn't exactly fight against Afghanistan, they were fighting Taliban. But still, it wasn't Taliban who did the terrorist attacks.


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Old 07-06-2003, 01:50 PM   #10
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fear
greed
want of freedom when peole are oppressed
civil wars are normally for freedom or rights,nowadays, war has to do with religion, greed, fear of death or not free to warship or live freely.


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Old 07-08-2003, 07:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Breton
That is like saying Serbia started WW1. A country is not to blame if a person does a terrorist act. Anyway, they didn't exactly fight against Afghanistan, they were fighting Taliban. But still, it wasn't Taliban who did the terrorist attacks.
They were accessories prior to and after the fact. They were as guilty as Bin Laden. Hell Bin Laden didn't even plan the attack, we have the guy that did. It's chain of command. They based out of Afghanistan, they were supported by the Taliban. If I kill someone, then you hide me in your house willing and knowingly to evade capture, you are hence guilty of accessory after the fact, same goes for them and anyone else who supports in any way shape or form terrorist attacks against ANY sovereign state.





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Old 07-08-2003, 11:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
The advent of the nation-state also solidified the concept of the "other."
This is how a nation unifies it's populace, by giving them a common enemy (the "other") to band together against.

As useful as this tool is for creating national unity, pride, common purpose, and motivation (i.e. think communists of the pre-1990's), it eventually can lead to war as the government grows quickly to believe its propaganda and the populace fears the "other."

During the 1970's and 80's, I recall people using the word "communist" as a form of profanity: "What are you? Some kind of communist? Get a job!" or "That commie bastard!"

These days, the word "communist" is replaced by "terrorist" because the "other" is any brown-person-who-doesn't-speak-Spanish. Especially if they have obvious Muslim culture in their dress or habits.

It's interesting that evolution of a species takes millions of years. We are essentially the same hominids that roamed the Earth 10,000 years ago, but what's evolved is our information, technology, and ability to destroy. If wisdom doesn't also evolve, we may be the end of ourselves.
Just can't help sharing the experience.

I remembered "perestroyka" very well although I was very young. I remember being waked up by my mother in 6 AM and going to the market. We stood in big queue for two hours just to be able to buy something. After an hour after the market was open, all products were out. I remember my father telling me that: "if anyone aks you you who you are you must say that you're communist and never mention your jewish surname".

Still the time was marvellous as I was told, because many things that Soviet Union had never seen before arrived like american movies (uncensored) , coke, Sting songs and so on. I remember watching Star Wars for the first time. It was really a time of change. The manner with which americans discussed politics was striking. We were warned since birth not to put up in politics debate and here everyone just wanted to know your opinion. My relatives their argued of me being to silent and closed although I spoke english since I was 6.

I still remember foreign video recorders and how police tryed to catch ones who watched the "forbidden information". Their method was the following: they turned off electricity in whole house (many flat house I mean), so that people who were watching some american porn or Rambo movie could not take out a cassete and hide it. And started to check every appartment. Russian market was free by that time and so smart company started to produce first rusiian video players. They were the way so that if power is down one could still take off the cassete and hide it. Funny to recall such things today.

But the reputation of my country lived longer than 80s. I remember first coming to U.S. in 1993 and it was really a shock for me and for everyone else. My mother told me months arter that my father was in deep depression after seeing all that. We were treated well but this little inconvenience: "Oh you came from free Russia" was still glooming over.

My last visit to U.S. was one month before 9/11 and it was my first sight of New York and the last sight of WTC. Funny to tears.

Now it's all different but still in some places of Europe I meet people who still think of Russia asthe Great Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics who stopped Hitler and threatened U.S. with nuclear missiles

I think Skin that you're too pessimistic about us being the end. Although weapons of destruction become more terrible, all that is made in technology or information for prosperity of mankind outweights now any attempt of foul people to remake the world as they would like. Of course a single human today with just a computer can possibly ruin the world we know. But for now none of them I guess grew to such a treachery. If they would I think we're prepared for it. Wisdom is endless until we grow
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Old 07-08-2003, 12:41 PM   #13
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I think as long as people continue to look at their existances the way you and a few others here do, there is hope for the species

Actually, I think there truly is a good chance our species will prevail. But we can't disregard the fact that our power to destroy is very significant. People like us must continue to speak out in order to provide balance and remind others of what's important.

Thanks for sharing some of your story with us... I for one, found the experiences you wrote here fascinating... The anecdote about the VCRs is something that I would never have known.

BTW, this is a bit off-topic, but I noticed a thread in the Swamp that you might be interested in... they're discussing multiverse theory... look for the thread about "was the Moon landing real" or something similar.


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Old 07-08-2003, 12:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Actually, I think there truly is a good chance our species will prevail. But we can't disregard the fact that our power to destroy is very significant. People like us must continue to speak out in order to provide balance and remind others of what's important.
That's the essence of my dwelling here

Quote:
BTW, this is a bit off-topic, but I noticed a thread in the Swamp that you might be interested in... they're discussing multiverse theory... look for the thread about "was the Moon landing real" or something similar.
Thanks for that. I'm leaving now... Cheers. Wherever multiverse calls I go...
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