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Old 08-24-2003, 09:13 PM   #1
Emon
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"It's a good bet the Empire knows we're here."

Early terrain for what will become
The Battle of Hoth, a Siege map for JA.
The objective is to make the closest possible
recreation of the Battle of Hoth, including
AT-ATs, snowspeeders, the full seven floors
of Echo Base (some are very small, like three
are just one room), and perhaps you'll even
see movie characters as NPCs, but I'm not
sure how I'd work that into gameplay.

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This is the older one only here for the sake of
labeling.


Newer and expanded. Red areas well be removed, and I'm going to make the mountains less of a box shape.


To get an idea of the scale, you can fit about four men sideways in the trenches.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.

Last edited by Kurgan; 09-11-2004 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:45 PM   #2
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I'm not going to go "OMG Emonz MAP ROXORS PLZ CAN I BETA TEST?" because there isn't enough to show.

However this is a really ambitious project you're undertaking and I wish you every success in its completion, only thing that worries me is how are you going to get it as accurate as possible if you can get any NPCs in the level (I'm pretty sure you will though, you're a walking talking Jedi Knight Editing Database ) is the lag it might cause, especially if you can also get it to support 32 players, but I'm sure you will find a way.
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Old 08-24-2003, 09:46 PM   #3
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Just a question regarding this:

Due to the battle at Hoth having so many objectives and whatnot in the movie (a.k.a., one task group's work was merely to take down the shields so bombardment/more troops could enter. Another group's work was to gain control of the base and especially the hangars, all that.)...

What do you see the objectives as being? (Is it going to be solely anti-AT-AT for the Rebs, or are they going to have to keep the base, too? Because in the movie, (I know, I know, this isnn't the movie, but I assume the walkers won't be very easy to take down) it didn't take too long to take out the generators. On the other hand, for the Imps to try to take the base may be a bit much, too.)

Oh, and BTW, love the idea and how it sees its way through to completion. If I had any skills at editing, I'd offer to help.


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Old 08-24-2003, 10:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
I'm not going to go "OMG Emonz MAP ROXORS PLZ CAN I BETA TEST?"
Please don't do that. Ever.

NPCs won't be a problem since JA already has NPCs in MP. Lag shouldn't be much of a problem either. It's just like having another player, less infact. If I decide to add a lot of NPCs, I will probably make it a scalable amount, so a really beefy server can have a lot of them. Maybe automate it by making the amount of NPCs proportional to the maxrate set on the server.


I see primary objectives for Imperials like this:

1. Break through the main Rebel defense line.

2. Take out the shield generator so reenforcements can land.

3. Override the blast doors on either entrances.

4. Seize the command center.

And secondary objectives like this:

1. Destroy/disable the ion cannon. Perhaps doing so will increase the amount of reenforcements you get?

2. Destroy/disable the power plant, which would take down the ion cannon, and the lights inside the base. I think it would be awesome to run around inside Echo Base when it's running on backup power.

3. Prevent Rebels from escaping. I think it would be cool if, once the Imperials seize the command center, they win, but the game doesn't end. It might be cool for the Rebels to try to escape to get some extra points, and the opposite for the Imperials.

And of course, Rebels' objectives are to stop Imperials from doing the above. I very well may think of more secondary objectives, probably of little importance, when I start the inside of the base.


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Old 08-24-2003, 10:10 PM   #5
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Nice to see you're making progress on your Hoth map, Emon. I believe the right word to describe the size may be "epic?" Looks good.
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emon
Please don't do that. Ever.

Touched a nerve did I? Don't worry I won't ever do that purely on the principle that most fan based beta tests aren't done well at all; mostly people who want to try the level before anyone else and end up playing it willy-nilly, not testing each module in isolation, not using extreme or erroneous data to provoke failure etc, and the only feedback they send is yeah this is great works fine; you end up releasing it; someone tries it differently and what do you know, your making version 1.1, when you thought you done a good jobs work.

You're best off doing your own Alpha-Test, with the people who helped you create the level; that way you'll all take pride in making your level the best it is.

Anyway you should have a look at the Hoth Level on Force Commander, it was poorly done from a gamer's point of view, but it may provide a source of inspiration.

Just a suggestion though I think it would be cool if the Tauntans with players mounted could scout Hoth, and be able to report back to the team members; that would really give it a tactical edge, it would be pretty easy to do if those Radio messages are implemented into seige, or if not well just chat to team members; I'm sure Snowtrooper's could ride Speeder Bikes and do the same thing to the Rebels.

The main objectives sound good though; it also shows you've really planned this out well.
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:50 PM   #7
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Actually it was more the "OMG EMONZ MAP ROCKZ!!!" thing. I hate excessive fanboy style praise. If you really wanted to help test, I wouldn't mind if you asked, provided I trust you enough and know you well.

Thanks for those suggestions. I got this layout from a more official source, so I won't need to check FC, especially when I don't have it. I doubt it does much with the interior, which is what I need more info on.

Basically the idea is to setup the Battle of Hoth from the movies at the very start. Imperials will be far up in the North Ridge, and the Rebels will have to setup the defenses. The idea is that the game will take it from there, and can either play out as the Rebels holding off the Imperials at the North Ridge, falling back to the command center, or end up retreating. And of course, in the interest of balance, the Imperials won't always win.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-25-2003, 02:50 AM   #8
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"Echo station 3TA! We've spotted Imperial Walkers!"
"--Imperial Walkers on the North Ridge...!"


Hmmm...isn't one of the defaul JA Siege maps Echo Base? Still, a very ambitious project, I hope you can get it to work well. I didn't know you could have NPC's in JA multiplayer...legions of Stormtroopers and brave armies or Rebel Hoth troops, with blaster bolts flying everywhere, would make this quite a sight to behold.

How's this for objectives...?

Rebel:

Primary
- Allow at least x transports to escape
- Allow Millenium Falcon to escape
Secondary
- Destroy Imperial Walkers

Imperial:

Primary
- Destroy the shield generator
- Take the Command Center
Secondary
- Destroy Anti-Infantry and Anti-Vehicle laser batteries
- Destroy the Ion Cannon

You should definitely implement some method for the Rebels to take out the Walkers (at least temporarily)...perhaps you could have a driveable snowspeeder and script conditions that an AT-AT blows up if the speeder circles it twice?

It'll be interesting to see the Rebels win this battle. That gives me an idea...I wonder if a sort of 'Kobiyashi Maru' scenario could be made, where one side could be utterly destroyed, but scored on how well they did before dying? For instance, this game continues until the Imperials overrun Echo Base, but if enough transports escaped, they fail in their primary objectives and the Rebels still win.


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Old 08-25-2003, 03:00 AM   #9
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There were some ESB cut scenes where a "prison cell" full of captured Wampas (apparently enticed by R2's whistling) was stumbled upon by some snowies, thanks in part to 3PO.

Though I realise this project is ambitious enough as it is, it would make an interesting "easter egg" to have that room of Wampa NPCs ready to attack anyone who stumbled into the cell.

Some references for these cut Wampa scenes are here;

http://www.angelfire.com/ct3/empiret...ostscenes.html

http://www.starwars.com/databank/cre...wampa/bts.html

http://www.dsuper.net/~ymorin/ESBcut.html

http://wso.williams.edu/~rfoxwell/starwars/CutPics1.htm


Also, you are probably aware, but there's a good Snowspeeder prefab for JO about. I think this was the one I saw (images are down, so it's hard to tell);

http://www.jedioutcastmaps.com/file.php?id=445

There's a mirror here;

http://www.filefront.com/r.b/page__c...h/_output.html
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Old 08-25-2003, 03:45 AM   #10
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Thanks guys. Those sound like some good objectives, wedge. And I was planning on doing the Wampa egg too.

wedge, the circling thing isn't so hard as is the cable itself.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-25-2003, 04:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by wedge2211
Hmmm...isn't one of the default JA Siege maps Echo Base?
Hmmm... I wonder how he would know this?
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Old 08-25-2003, 04:02 AM   #12
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Dude there are screenshots everywhere.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-25-2003, 04:21 AM   #13
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You know, it would be good to be able to open that Wampa door remotely.

If the control room had a video camera and a switch for that door, whoever had posession of the control room could open the door as the enemy entered the adjoining corridor.
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Old 08-25-2003, 12:52 PM   #14
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But in that case, you'd have to have the Wampas on a main corridor, or have it on a side corridor that could be a sneaky way of getting to the control room. (Just an idea. Always provide the alternative route in.)


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Old 08-26-2003, 04:33 AM   #15
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I start school Wednesday, but I should be free on the weekend. I hope to get some 3ds max or ingame shots within the next week or so.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-26-2003, 05:33 AM   #16
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3ds max render for the hell of it.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-26-2003, 08:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
I doubt it does much with the interior, which is what I need more info on.
I have 4 pages scanned into 2 JPGs from "Star Wars Fact Files" on Echo Base, with movie stills, concept paintings, lots of info in the text, plus a pretty good map of the main hangar bay (and the overall location map you've obviously based your (great looking) render on.

Emon, if you want me to send you the 2 scans (JPGs, ~1400x1000) let me know, email is the most convenient for me, even with my inbox clogged up with damn SOBIG generated emails, both with the attachment and bounced mails from virus emails spoofed with my domain.

I'm still looking around for other interior plans - maybe the RPG books would be a good source?
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Old 08-26-2003, 02:11 PM   #18
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I can get you a temporary FTP account at my friend's site, and you can upload them there. I'd really prefer to keep away from e-mail if you have SoBig problems, I haven't gotten any of them yet, and I'd rather not get any.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-26-2003, 06:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by jp-30
There were some ESB cut scenes where a "prison cell" full of captured Wampas (apparently enticed by R2's whistling) was stumbled upon by some snowies, thanks in part to 3PO.

Though I realise this project is ambitious enough as it is, it would make an interesting "easter egg" to have that room of Wampa NPCs ready to attack anyone who stumbled into the cell.
The second level of Shadows of the Empire takes place inside Echo Base and includes the Wampa rooms. Not sure if you can find it for PC but it is easily found for N64 on eBay. Might be worth consulting, at least for some ideas.


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Old 08-26-2003, 06:13 PM   #20
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Not sure about the wampa area, but I explored the rest of Echo Base on SotE PC, and man, it was a bunch of nonsense! It wasn't at all like the movie.


Clarionet, n. An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarionet -- two clarionets.
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Old 08-26-2003, 10:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Emon
I can get you a temporary FTP account at my friend's site, and you can upload them there. I'd really prefer to keep away from e-mail if you have SoBig problems, I haven't gotten any of them yet, and I'd rather not get any.
I don't have the virus, and I don't use Outlook/Outlook express which is what it uses to propagate. But my domain is being spoofed by it because I must be on an infected user's address book.

Anyway, no problem, I'll upload the images to a work site & PM you the URLs when I get home tonight. When you've saved them, let me know & I'll remove them.
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Old 08-28-2003, 10:53 PM   #22
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dood thats awesome. hope your planning on using the EXCELLENT atat model by david revera url here
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Old 08-30-2003, 01:54 AM   #23
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Originally posted by jp-30
Anyway, no problem, I'll upload the images to a work site & PM you the URLs when I get home tonight. When you've saved them, let me know & I'll remove them.
Been away for 3 days. Will sort this out later tonight for you.
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Old 08-31-2003, 10:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Captian
dood thats awesome. hope your planning on using the EXCELLENT atat model by david revera url here
i think changes would have to be made to that model in order to make it ridable ingame but im not sure
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Old 09-01-2003, 01:00 AM   #25
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youd just need to do animation for it, thats all
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Old 09-01-2003, 12:47 PM   #26
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The AT-AT that's being built by Corto (of CortoCG.com fame) is being rigged an animated already. That model looks like it might just be brushwork, which you *could* get rigged up and animated, but I don't think the end result would be as impressive, unless you spent a lot of time on it.


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Old 09-01-2003, 03:04 PM   #27
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That is brushwork. It's a prefab, not a model.

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Old 09-16-2003, 09:58 AM   #28
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This is stupid; Emon should be unbanned immediatley, he has probably bought the full game by now.
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Old 09-16-2003, 02:55 PM   #29
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Uh...huh? I think I missed something...


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Old 09-16-2003, 03:01 PM   #30
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Wedge, I think Emon got banned for saying something about that leaked beta. Either he implied he had it, said something about it, or someone told on him.

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Old 09-16-2003, 03:17 PM   #31
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Well, I did a search for "Emon banned", and there appeared to be a mod-only thread named "Ban: Emon"...


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Old 09-17-2003, 04:45 AM   #32
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I thought he got unbanned by now?


Online name: _Leviathan_
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Old 09-17-2003, 10:16 AM   #33
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well at least he will get to work on the map more since he wont spend most of his life here during his punishment
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Old 09-19-2003, 02:26 AM   #34
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Yeah, I hope Emon gets unbanned so he can update us on the progress of his map. I mean c'mon, JA is already out in the U.S. and will come out fairly soon, if not already, in the U.K. There's all sorts of full-game JA topics from folks who bought the game. I don't think it's too much to ask to unban him.
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Old 09-19-2003, 12:35 PM   #35
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Well, for as far as I know there haven't been major updates; though that is also based on the fact that he hasn't posted any on Massassi, where he also showcases.


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Old 09-22-2003, 05:18 PM   #36
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Cool! This is going to be so sweet. I cant wait to stick it to some s on this map.
Now to persuade my parents to buy me Jedi Academy...


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Old 09-26-2003, 03:56 AM   #37
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...calm down. There are no updates.

I got banned for making a mistake, I thought it was harmless, it wasn't. Ooh, who cares, let it go. Don't complain because the moderators enforced the rules.


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Old 09-26-2003, 03:31 PM   #38
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Good to see you're back, Emon. Yeah, take your time on the map. Nice to have you back.
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Old 10-09-2003, 10:20 PM   #39
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Just one question. Isn't there already a Hoth level very similar to this already bundled?

Or are tyou making this because its more ESB related, where as the Raven map, although good, is more like a hodge-podge?
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Old 10-09-2003, 11:38 PM   #40
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Yes there is a siege map based on hoth but it is totally inaccurate


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