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Old 05-07-2003, 01:31 PM   #1
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sifo-diyas

is sifo-dias another one of dookos alieces? maybe?


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Old 05-07-2003, 09:28 PM   #2
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I don't think so. Obi-Wan knew who Sifo-Diyas was, as did the rest of the Jedi. So he was a real Jedi at one time. However, you could argue that Dooku used the name when he placed the order for the clone troops. You might even be able to convince me that Dooku killed Sifo-Diyas just to be able to use the name long enough to set things in motion. By doing so, he would still be able to hide the Sith's presence for 10 years if anyone found out about the army before EP2.

All they could find out was that a jedi that died about 10 years ago also placed an order for the army about 10 years ago.

Or you could look at it the other way. Sifo-Diyas was manipulated by Sidious to create the order. Then for some reason needed to be silenced. Either he was expendable from the start, or had a change of heart once he realized what he had set in motion.

Hopefully, it'll be explained in EP3 or an EU book.


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Old 05-07-2003, 10:59 PM   #3
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The whole Sifo-Diyas thing was quiet explained all that well, I mean the first time you watch Ep 2 you get a liiiiil bit of info on him but Sifo-Diyas was just thrown in there all of a sudden x.x

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Old 05-08-2003, 11:24 PM   #4
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Re: sifo-diyas

Quote:
Originally posted by gundark
is sifo-dias another one of dookos alieces? maybe?
Sifo-Dyas Wouldn't have been an ally of Dooku, because Dooku Started the seperatist act only a year before AOTC and sifo-dyas died 10 years ago so he can't be an ally of Dooku


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Old 05-09-2003, 01:23 AM   #5
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Sifo-Dyas was used as a disguise name for either Dooku, Palpatine/Sidious, or someone affliated with them in order to ask the Kaminos to start building a Clone Army. The REAL Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Council member that was killed about 10 years before Ep. 2 (like Obi-Wan said). Palpatine/Sidous or Dooku only used that name as a disguise when they ordered the Clone Army from the Kaminos.
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Old 05-11-2003, 10:56 PM   #6
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i dont think he was a council member because he wasn't in the council in Ep.I and he died just after Ep.I. and i do think he was real but probably had nothing to do with the army. i think it was just palpatine who killed dias and used his name when he placed the order.
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Old 05-29-2003, 10:01 PM   #7
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Well, the only thing we know about Syfo is that he can't have been killed by a sith! (unless he is Qui-Gon. We'll come to that).

Evidence: Syfo-Dias used to sit on the Jedi Council, according to the Kaminoan prime minister. Yet, we did not see him on the council at The Phantom Menace. Thus, he must have died before that. But if he was killed by a sith, the council would have known of this. Yet, they do not know of the sith's return before after Qui-Gon tells them about Maul.

Quote:
and he died just after Ep.I.
No one ever says this in Ep1.


Still, The Kaminoan prime minister can have been wrong about Sifo sitting on the Council. Wich proves my point about Sifo-Dyas actually being another name of Qui-Gon Jinn!

Evidence: The KPM mistakes Sifo for being Obi-Wan's master. Or does he really? I is certainly not unlikely that the KPM have known quite a bit about Qui-Gon. Thus knowing he was the Master of Obi-Wan. My belief is that Qui-Gon have meeted KPM before TPM, but not after. He was a powerful Jedi Master, and that may be why KPM believes he is on the council. Another thing is, of course, that Sifo died 10 years before AotC. Qui-Gon dies 10 years before AoTC.

But I haven't gotten to the interesting bit yet. You all know that Dooku was the Master of Qui-Gon. That is excactly why it would have been so easy for Dooku to assume the identity of Qui-Gon, and ordering the clone army in Qui-Gon's name (well, other name).

Another thing: Qui-Gon might have meant Sifo-Dyas in another language.


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Old 05-29-2003, 10:40 PM   #8
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Seems like kind of a reach. Where did you get the idea that Sifo-Dias was Obi-Wan's master?


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Old 05-30-2003, 08:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Random
Seems like kind of a reach. Where did you get the idea that Sifo-Dias was Obi-Wan's master?
Taken from the Episode II script:

Quote:
LAMA SU: Please tell your Master Sifo-Dyas that we have
every confidence his order will be met on time and in full.
He is well, I hope.
As you can see, Lama Su says your Master.

And even better:

Quote:
OBI-WAN: Tell me, Prime Minister, when my Master first
contacted you about the army, did he say who it was for?
Now Obi-Wan says my Master.


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Old 05-30-2003, 09:45 AM   #10
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Well Obi-Wan never actually came to Kamino to check out these 'new clones', so i think he says :"my master": as he plays along with the whole scheme.

The assumption that Syfo Dias means Qui-Gon in another language is very intriguing




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Old 05-30-2003, 11:11 AM   #11
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I don't agree. I remember what Lama Su said now, and I feel that he meant "your" master as in "Your Jedi Master". The Kaminoans are so far removed from the rest of the galaxy, they think of themselves as seperate from it. They would say "Your Republic" or "Your Senator" because they have nothing to do with them. "Your Master Sifo Dias" ment that they don't think of him as a master of anything, just a customer. But he was being diplomatic by using the term "Master" because he wouldn't want to offend his buyer.

It would be like us saying "Your president" when speaking to someone from another country. Sure he's a president, but he sure as heck isn't MY president.

And I agree that Obi-Wan said "My Master" to play along with the deception he was using to get information.


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Old 05-30-2003, 08:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Random
I don't agree. I remember what Lama Su said now, and I feel that he meant "your" master as in "Your Jedi Master". The Kaminoans are so far removed from the rest of the galaxy, they think of themselves as seperate from it. They would say "Your Republic" or "Your Senator" because they have nothing to do with them. "Your Master Sifo Dias" ment that they don't think of him as a master of anything, just a customer. But he was being diplomatic by using the term "Master" because he wouldn't want to offend his buyer.

It would be like us saying "Your president" when speaking to someone from another country. Sure he's a president, but he sure as heck isn't MY president.

And I agree that Obi-Wan said "My Master" to play along with the deception he was using to get information.
Possible, though not sure. But it doesn't change the fact that there is plenty of other things that leads to the Qui-Gon=Sifo-Dyas theory. For instance, the reason why Sifo isn't at the databank in starwars.com, and the "not again"-look at Mace and Yoda when they hear bout Sifo ordering the clones. Apart from all the other things I mentioned, of course.


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Old 05-31-2003, 05:05 PM   #13
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i always thought that sifo-diyas was palpetine. Just because they didnt introduce another sith character
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Old 06-19-2003, 03:23 AM   #14
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Obi-Wan also says "I was under the impression that Sifo-Dias was killed before then". If Sifo-Dias was Qui-Gon, and Obi-Wan knew that he was Qui-Gon, he certainly wouldn't have said "I was under the impression that Sifo-Dias was killed before then," because he would have KNOWN exactly when Sifo-Dias died because he would have BEEN THERE when he died.

Sifo-Dias is probably just some dead Jedi whose identity was assumed by Dooku, Maul or Sidious, to make their purchase. The Kaminoans wouldn't know the difference and their isolation and the deletion of their system from the Jedi Archives would have ensured that the Clone Army wouldn't be discovered until some Jedi followed Palpatine's cookie-crumbles to Kamino.

But, then, who's to say Sifo-Dias wasn't killed by a Sith Lord? Qui-Gon was only able to inform the Council of the Sith's existence because he survived to make a report. Sifo-Dias obviously didn't survive.


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Old 06-19-2003, 04:28 AM   #15
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agreed, i find it very unlikely that Sifo Dias is Qui-Gon, I had tought about this possibility also but when i watched AotC again it became clear to me they were not the same person. As Monk stated Obi isn't sure of the date Sifo Dias died but he certainly is sure of the date Qui-Gon died.

But then i wonder if Sifo Dias really is dead, and if he is, i assume he wasn't killed by a Sith. If he'd been killed by a Sith, it would have been obvious to the jedi that the Sith had come back (and they don'T know until EP1) cause he would obviously have distinctive lightsaber wound(s). But he could have also simply dissapeared, leaving no trace, or faking his death, thus making the jedi belive in his demise. So either he is still alive (or at least was for a moment while the jedi taught he was dead) or he wasn't killed by a Sith (an assassin might have been hired, accidental death, etc.).
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Old 06-19-2003, 01:35 PM   #16
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I have a few more points against the idea that Qui-Gon Jinn and Sifo-Dyas were the same person. Point 1, if the Kaminoans had known enough about Obi-wan to identify Qui-gon as his former master, they would have known that Sifo-Dyas had died. Point 2, Sifo-Dyas was known to Obi-wan, not just the Kaminoans, to have been a member of the Jedi Council. Qui-gon most definitely was not. Point 3, Breton claims that the Council would have known if Sifo-Dyas was killed by a Sith. There are two faults with that. We don't know how he died, so we certainly don't know he was killed by a Sith in direct combat. Also, exactly how would he have reported being killed by a Sith? Jedi could not appear as blue ghosts yet. Point 4, in the novelisation Lama Su says that Jango Fett was chosen as the clone template by Sifo-Dyas. Dooku told Jango his name was Tyranus. That indicates to me that it was probably Dooku himself, pretending to be Sifo-Dyas, that arranged for the clone army.
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Old 06-19-2003, 01:48 PM   #17
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What's to say that a Sith Lord would only kill someone with a lightsaber? They have Dark Eye Probe Droids, Force Choke and Force Lightning all at their disposal. Or a Sith Lord could have gone Teras Kasi on Sifo-Dias.

I'm playing devil's advocate here. Don't really think Sifo-Dias was murdered in order that his identity could be stolen, but there's no evidence against it, or against a Sith being the culprit. As you can see, there are a variety of ways that a Sith Lord could have killed Sifo-Dias without resorting to the use of a lightsaber.


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Old 06-21-2003, 01:27 PM   #18
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Re: Re: sifo-diyas

Quote:
Originally posted by Bredamo
Sifo-Dyas Wouldn't have been an ally of Dooku, because Dooku Started the seperatist act only a year before AOTC and sifo-dyas died 10 years ago so he can't be an ally of Dooku
not ally, aliece, a name he could use.


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Old 06-25-2003, 05:21 PM   #19
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from reading ur posts

here is what i believe who dias really is:

1. sifo and quigon both died 10 years ago.
2. the clone army was ordered 10 years ago.
3. dooku vanished from the jedi order 10 years ago, right after maul's death
4. since dooku was the master of qui gon, quigon could have meant sifo dias in another language and dooku decided to use sifo dias as a secret name so it wouldnt be traced back to him.
5. now the jedi would have felt the sith returning but since dooku said the republic and jedi was under the control of palpatine a.k.a. sidious, they couldn't have felt something

but now wait if dooku had the army created, wouldnt he have recognize his own army? right but at the end of episode 2 he said everything was in order to sidious. what has happened is since palpatine is a sith lord, he has gained control of the senate, created the army, and with it wipe out the jedi and republic. everything ties together now. just waiting for checkmate.


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Old 07-17-2003, 07:55 AM   #20
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The thing about Obi-Wan knowing about Sifo/Qui-gon...maybe no one ever told him that they were the same person? Just like how Luke was lied to about his father/vader, they wouldn't 'lie' to him, they ...hmm. Well, maybe Qui-Gon just never told him, then when asking Yoda or someone about Sifo sometime, they just didn't say that it was the same person..

Or I suppose it could just mean "Dooku", this kinda makes sense too...maybe he was once Sifo-Dyas, now he is Dooku...erm, no, that doesn't really make sense either.

Hopefully this will all be explained in episode III


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Old 07-18-2003, 05:44 AM   #21
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i highly doubt that sifo-dyas (or syfo-dias whatever...) and qui-gon are one in the same. i think he may have been a jedi tricked by dooku into doing it then killed... or something along those lines.
needless to say i'm sure the secret will be well kept until the movie is near release. anyone claiming to know anything is really just speculating at this point and no one could be proven right or wrong. but some people may have some more far fetched views on this than some.



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Old 07-18-2003, 10:45 AM   #22
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all these ideas are so fascinating and i hope something like that happened. But i think that the subject is getting to a point it wasn't meant to go. Too much discussion on to just a thingy loucas putted to tie the story.

Dias was just a powerful jedi. He was tricted? maybe. He was killed and then used his name? maybe...

Anyway, he was powerful and he died....it could be an accident, or he died in a mission of the counsil...that's why he wasn't in EP1, as he was away..

we can say million of things and create hundrends of scripts but i believe its simple. Loucas needed a char to tie the things...

Of course he can have much more in his mind...so i don't put my hand in the fire for it


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Old 07-28-2003, 02:51 PM   #23
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Sifo Dyas could be anyone really, I doubt its Dooku, because he was still on the council around that time, and Qui Gon was never on the council, and they'd notice if he was on the council as a different name and appearance? Also didn't the Kaminoan PM address Sifo as the head of the jedi council? It could well be Sidious somehow or hell, it could be Maul! He died 10 years before! Put a mask on, hide his staff and he's a jedi, although I doubt very much Maul is Sifo Dyas..... This is one thing Lucas HAS to explain in Episode III.
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Old 07-29-2003, 08:53 PM   #24
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I doubt Lucas will explain anything about sifo-dias. He(or she who knows) is not important to the main plot. The story of the creation of the Clone Army is over.period.
Lucas will keep you guessing until he makes an ep2 special edition featuring sifo-dias.


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Old 07-29-2003, 08:56 PM   #25
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Well I think he has to, we're gona wana know who betrayed the jedi and ordered that army..... He can't leave it out, and if he does alot of people will be pissed.
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Old 07-29-2003, 09:12 PM   #26
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I think we can get pissed by anything. Look at Anakin. All the time I thought he was supposed to be this really strong Jedi. Now I just think he was a whiny teenager who got angry and started killing everyone...
The way Jango Fett died...I was pissed and so were a lot of people.
The way Maul died...
The way Qui-Gon died...

We'll forever be pissed by something...


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Old 08-19-2003, 01:45 AM   #27
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First, I'd like to say Hi because I've never posted on these boards before. I'm a regular on the Galactic Battles.com board with Lukeiamyourdad and pbguy1211. But I thought I'd branch out a bit.

Now let me start by saying I'm glad people are moving away from the Sifo-Dyas = Darth Sidious theory. I think this is wrong for reasons already stated in this thread. I don't mind the Qui-Gon theory, though it is flawed. But now, I'll reveal my theory, which I've thought long and hard about.

Sifo-Dyas = Darth Maul

Here's my reasons (though first you must unlearn what you have learned from EU, it can be and often is wrong):
1) We know very little about Maul's past, but chances are he was once a Jedi like Dooku, who was corrupted by Sidious.

2) When Maul wanted to leave the Jedi Order to fully serve Sidious, he probably faked his death - it would have created much less attention than Dooku's exit did. This is why everyone believes Sifo-Dyas dead.

3) Since Sifo-Dyas can't be Sidious or Dooku (I'm assuming they didn't just use Sifo-Dyas' name, which would be a really lame plot twist) because other Jedi know who Sifo-Dyas is, there must be a third Sith-accomplice in the mix. It was Tyranus (Dooku) who hired Jango for the Clones, but he didn't order them from the Kaminoans; it makes sense that someone with that task is a Sith Lord, and not just an underling like Nute Gunray.

4) Here's my only EU-based argument: I always wondered why they said Maul's body-markings were tattoos rather than his natural skin pattern. If it was his natural skin pattern it's much scarier, I thought. Please don't bring up the argument here that he got it because of his commitment to the Dark Side - if that is the case why don't Sidious and Dooku, who are both more powerful than Maul, have their own tattoos? Well, it makes sense to me that Maul got the tattoos to disguise himself from the Jedi. Sifo-Dyas had no such tattoos, and he would be barely recognisable to any of the Jedi painted all black and red.

5) My final point I feel is the strongest: it also seemed strange that Darth Maul had in the end such a minor part in Star Wars. It's been rumoured Qui-Gon yet has a part to play, and I believe Maul does too. He was too much of a cool character to be of no consequence. He was also really under-developed in TPM, which I believe will all be changed in Episode 3. Besides, it's much more creative than simply "Dooku/Sidious told the Kaminoans he was Sifo-Dyas".


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Old 08-19-2003, 04:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok


1) We know very little about Maul's past, but chances are he was once a Jedi like Dooku, who was corrupted by Sidious.

2) When Maul wanted to leave the Jedi Order to fully serve Sidious, he probably faked his death - it would have created much less attention than Dooku's exit did. This is why everyone believes Sifo-Dyas dead.

3) Since Sifo-Dyas can't be Sidious or Dooku (I'm assuming they didn't just use Sifo-Dyas' name, which would be a really lame plot twist) because other Jedi know who Sifo-Dyas is, there must be a third Sith-accomplice in the mix. It was Tyranus (Dooku) who hired Jango for the Clones, but he didn't order them from the Kaminoans; it makes sense that someone with that task is a Sith Lord, and not just an underling like Nute Gunray.

4) Here's my only EU-based argument: I always wondered why they said Maul's body-markings were tattoos rather than his natural skin pattern. If it was his natural skin pattern it's much scarier, I thought. Please don't bring up the argument here that he got it because of his commitment to the Dark Side - if that is the case why don't Sidious and Dooku, who are both more powerful than Maul, have their own tattoos? Well, it makes sense to me that Maul got the tattoos to disguise himself from the Jedi. Sifo-Dyas had no such tattoos, and he would be barely recognisable to any of the Jedi painted all black and red.

5) My final point I feel is the strongest: it also seemed strange that Darth Maul had in the end such a minor part in Star Wars. It's been rumoured Qui-Gon yet has a part to play, and I believe Maul does too. He was too much of a cool character to be of no consequence. He was also really under-developed in TPM, which I believe will all be changed in Episode 3. Besides, it's much more creative than simply "Dooku/Sidious told the Kaminoans he was Sifo-Dyas".
I doubt it...
1. they would have recognized him. and Qui Gon didn't.
3. they said there will be only 2 Sith.
5. you wish he had more of a backstory! wishful thinking is all that will be, friend.

Besides, the Kaminoans didn't know any of the Jedi as obvious by how they didn't know who Kenobi was. I just think it'll end up being "some dude"



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Old 08-20-2003, 11:52 AM   #29
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Well I guess it would be better being some dude than Sidious or Dooku. Man that would suck... okay nothing in a Star Wars movie could ever suck, but that would come close.


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Old 08-20-2003, 02:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
okay nothing in a Star Wars movie could ever suck, but that would come close.
So you liked the idea of Jar Jar and thought Hayden and Portman were great actors so far???



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Old 08-20-2003, 11:06 PM   #31
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hey guys i got the journal of darth maul. it gives a complete history of him. he wasn't a jedi, sidious just captured him and trained him in the dark side ever since he was little.


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Old 08-21-2003, 11:16 AM   #32
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pbguy: Jar Jar is my fourth favourite character (after Obi-Wan, R2-D2 and Yoda). I thought Haycen Christensen was perfect for the role and I can't fault Natalie Portman either. Answer your questions?

Jeedii_zaarinn: I said you must unlearn what EU has taught you. Similar publications said the Battle Droids were made in the image of Neimoidian skeletons, but now we know they were modelled after Geonosians. You need to learn to disregard it, George Lucas certainly does.


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Old 08-21-2003, 11:57 AM   #33
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well there were diffrent kinds of battle droids. the nemodians had their own and the geonosis had their own. its like the orcs in lord of the rings: you got the mordor orcs and the isrengard orcs. both look totally diffrent. i think they look a little like the nemodians because the battle droids have the pointy chin like thing.


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Old 08-21-2003, 05:40 PM   #34
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I never thought someone would name himself Zaarin...sorry.

Both Hayden and Portman were bad. If you saw other Portman movies you would know. Go rent "The Professionnal"(also called "Leon") with Jean Reno, Gary Oldman and Natalie Portman. You'll see that she can do a lot better.

As for Hayden...he's just ugly I hate him for no reason...


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Old 08-22-2003, 03:28 AM   #35
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Christensen and Portman weren't any worse than Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher. Even Alec Guinness, one of the greatest film actors ever, had trouble giving a good performance.

I think acting in a Star Wars movie is a pretty hard thing to do. Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, Samuel L Jackson, and Natalie Portman have all been critically acclaimed for their acting in other movies, but in Star Wars they just aren't that good. But I don't mind it at all.

As for Christensen, I think he was the perfect person for the role. You can see both elements of Jake Lloyd* and Darth Vader in him. I can't think of anyone who would have done better.

*Okay he's a bad actor, but I still don't mind, he was better in the role than anyone I can think of - can you imagine Hayley Joel Osment as Anakin? Sheesh


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Old 08-22-2003, 04:38 AM   #36
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I'm surprised that Portman and Sam L. are this bad, but I guess it has a lot to do with the blue screen. Ewan isn't awful... but he isn't great either. He's got a bunch of other movies I like. Trainspotting was awesome... the best quote from that was towards the end when he says something to the effect of: "Why do I do the bad things I do? It's simple. I'm a bad person." Classic!!!! And Sam L. has some GREAT sh*t out there! Pulp... Long Kiss... etc...



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Old 08-22-2003, 02:27 PM   #37
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pbguy- My favorite caracter in Pulp Fiction is Jules...long live Jules!

Vostok-Yeah well I guess...Perhaps the acting is bad but a lot of people don't mind and that's true. Although the acting could be better and thus make the movie even better!

Christensen was supposed to give Portman some other look. While he was looking at her, I did not see that he loved her but rather his eyes said:"I'm gonna rape her and kill her after". It's just something only I see...

*Hayley Joel Osment is waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too young for Portman


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Old 09-14-2003, 01:42 PM   #38
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bad acting stims from bad direction...how many of the original trilogy did Lucas direct?....


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Old 09-14-2003, 07:13 PM   #39
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and dont forget about unbreakable with sam. L as the comic book terrorist guy. i would never have fought the comic book guy was the terrorist


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Old 09-14-2003, 10:42 PM   #40
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Oscar-caliber acting from any character other than Yoda would be out-of-place in a Star Wars movies. Besides, the acting style is modeled after old serials, just like the action. It's based in melodrama and isn't the most realistic acting style.


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