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Old 10-13-2003, 08:55 PM   #1
BawBag™
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Thumbs up Jedi Knight Still Supreme

OK. I've played my fair share of Outcast, I've beaten Academy on Light and Darkside, but I still believe that Dark Forces 2 is the outranking game in the series.

Call me a craaazy @sshole, but dark forces 2 just has something about it that makes me want to replay the SP campaign. I'm not convinced it's entirely the storyline involved, the gameplay (obviously outdated to todays installments) but I keep going back for more.

My story behind Dark Forces 2 ain't so good, I actually owned Outcast for the Gamecube before I even had a PC. Eventually I got me a brand spanking new machine and purchased a shiny copy of Jedi Outcast.
After a while beating SP on all difficulty's I was curious as to know about the first Jedi Knight, and dug it out from the bottom shelf of a local games store. (It came bundled with MotS, but that game is simply the hardest game I have ever played).

It was a challenge getting to grips with the "old school" way of playing, but I just settled, and played and played.

And recently JA rolled into stores, and It was a blast. Obviously some people can't compare strafing continuously round an opponent using the rather unelegant double swing in DF2 to fighting five cultists with your staff twirling and your character butterfly kicking all over the shop, but thats all eye-candy.

When it comes to force also DF2 had a superior 'speed' power i.e. You could actually manouver somewhat (I use a gamepad, so turning is a nightmare) and force destruction was just a great larf to use on stand alone stormies.

All in all this is only a few things, but I really think Dark Forces 2 is still a great game and though now overshadowed, still rules the Jedi series.

So, anyone else think the same about the classics? I'd just like t'hear why.

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Old 10-14-2003, 09:27 AM   #2
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Cool Guy

Two warriors standing across Battleground Jedi.

Holding their lightsaber-textured pyramids up in a ready stance.

Vision blurred with 640x400 resolution or less - watching the colored pixels of which they know is their enemy.

Their actions delayed by 350 milliseconds or more - nobody knows what the hell a "cable-modem" is.

No need to bow - if they even could; the duel is the honor in itself, no need to cheapen it with some gesture.

When the time is right - they both will know.

Both warriors then advance toward eachother at superhuman speeds - which happens to be normal run for them.

In the advance, they both initiate their secondary attack - a set of furious one-handed swings.

Both warriors realize: that between the lag, the frames of animation, and the hit detection (or lack of), that the results of their actions are, for all practical purposes, out of their control.

But unable to stop now, they continue advancing and swinging toward their rival, putting their faith of the outcome of this duel entirely: To the will of the Force.


Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight Multiplayer Saber combat.

Old School.

Yeah.


I don't like quake, never liked quake, and don't like Star Wars quake. So basically jk2mp.exe never gets used on my computer.

Shaving is not a high priority with Jedi. Would you want to shave with a lightsaber?
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Old 10-16-2003, 08:11 AM   #3
Kurgan
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I think you've got a lot of the facts wrong, but you were being nostalgic, so I'll let you have your moment. ; )


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Old 10-16-2003, 09:11 AM   #4
StormHammer
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The original Jedi Knight is still a great game...and as I've stated elsewhere, as far as SP goes I rank them thus...

1. Jedi Knight
2. Jedi Outcast
3. Jedi Academy

The characterisation and 'depth' to the Jedi Knight story has not been surpassed by it's sequels, IMHO. Of course the game is definitely showing it's age, especially in graphical terms. However, the level design (linear as it is), the NPCs (simplistic as they are), and the moral code of play, are all still great to experience.

It will always remain one of my all-time favourite games.
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Old 10-20-2003, 06:13 PM   #5
Samuel Dravis
 
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If you didn't like the saber combat in JK/MotS, just go to massassi.net and download Saber Battle X mod v3.1. It adds a lot of moves, including backflip, stab, and saber throw.


"Words are deeds." - Wittgenstein
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Old 10-20-2003, 08:23 PM   #6
Dawidos
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Wow, thanks a lot for information. Yeah, I also think that Jedi Knight is the best game of Jedi Knight series. Its story is amazing. Every element is obtained. Lightsaber is my favourite weapon so I will download this mod. And I have debt of thank to you.


My name's Calavera. Manny Calavera
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Old 10-21-2003, 01:27 AM   #7
Joetheeskimo
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Without a doubt, JK and Mots are the best. It had much better a storey line, plus Mara Jade was a real hottie!















Sorry

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Old 11-07-2003, 12:47 AM   #8
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Thumbs up

Oh yeah... good times...

Don't forget that with dial-up, JK just is the best. You're right, nothing like the blind secondary-swinging-with-strafe-jumping in BGJ, and don't forget Canyon Oasis (and the millions of MERC Oasis) levels, where everyone has a Conc, running with force speed on rank 4, ahhh....

good times....
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Old 11-07-2003, 02:17 AM   #9
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Well, one of my most memorable gaming moments is where on level 6 of the SP game (the Dark Tower) after shooting and slashing my way through armies of Grans, Tuskens, Mailocs (God I hate those things) etc. through the first five levels and itching to blast the living daylights out of some white armor, (if you catch my drift) I hear the sound of muffled human conversation. Kyle mutters that one word, that word I've been dying to hear.

"Stormtroopers!" he whispers to himself.

I was finally taking on the Empire as a Jedi Knight, something every Star Wars fanboy has dreamed about. Now THAT is a classic moment in Star Wars gaming.

I still play JK from time to time, and it's a blast to play. It might not be the best in graphics or eye candy anymore, but the gameplay is spot on. They made games to last back in those days...

(...though I have to admit I like JO and JA a little more than JK. They're all phenomenal games in my opinon)
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Old 11-07-2003, 06:33 PM   #10
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1. Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
2. Star Wars: Dark Forces
3. Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Mysteries Of The Sith
4. Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
5. Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

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"The dark side? I've been there! Do your worst!"

~Kyle Katarn

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http://www.kylekatarnforum.cjb.net
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Old 11-08-2003, 08:45 PM   #11
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oh the memories....i got tears in me eyes reading this (i'm wierd like that) man, i could never forget bgj with sbx2.1 or jawaSE, or even dragon isle.....all classics, sadly almost no-one plays them anymore



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Old 11-12-2003, 06:48 PM   #12
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I think you've got a lot of the facts wrong, but you were being nostalgic, so I'll let you have your moment.
Then I must step up to the plate!

Quote:
Vision blurred with 640x400 resolution or less - watching the colored pixels of which they know is their enemy.
I play Jedi Knight at 1024x768 (as many players do, and some even higher). Enemies may appear as colored pixels if you're 1/2 blind and not using a video card that supports 3D.

Quote:
Their actions delayed by 350 milliseconds or more - nobody knows what the hell a "cable-modem" is.
Although 300-500 is considered average ping in Jedi Knight, many players have games where pings never get above 100-200. The netcode may not be as great for broadbanders as current netcodes, but it's great for those of us who are still on dial-up (and we are many). Not many games work well with a 26400 connection (that's what I connect at), but JK runs flawlessly and I stay between 300-500 in games where players aren't 1/2-way across the world.

Quote:
Both warriors then advance toward eachother at superhuman speeds - which happens to be normal run for them.
I don't fine the normal running speed in JK to be "superhuman" at all. I'm 6" and 150lbs and I could run that fast easily (and for quite some time). Would you expect anything less from player models who are so thin and healthy looking? JK's gameplay was aimed more at "fun" which is something that most games don't allow me to have anymore, because they're too focused on realism and eye-candy (to bother with good gameplay).

Quote:
Both warriors realize: that between the lag, the frames of animation, and the hit detection (or lack of), that the results of their actions are, for all practical purposes, out of their control.
I disagree (as would anyone who has played JK for very long). While this may be true for new players, veteran players learn to predict an opponents movements, thus landing attacks that are in their control. Amateur players lack this skill.

All of that being said, your post is quite humorous. It makes for a good story, there just aren't many facts there.
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Old 11-13-2003, 07:07 PM   #13
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Ehum...

Tried Enchaned Pack 2.0?

IT ROCKS!!!

I think that it's the name anyway...




We will remember you, when you are sand to!

I hate the world.

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(Also known as Mort Rouge)

Oh, and one thing remains... KUPPO!
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Old 11-19-2003, 11:10 AM   #14
Kurgan
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What I meant was, JK/MotS at 1024x768 res isn't too bad (go higher than that with a 19 in monitor and the HUD/text gets too small to read.... but if you go 1600x1200 there are absolutely no jaggies!).

; )

Still fun after all this time, in the days leading up to JA's releaseout a few of us played some MotS on GSA. Memories!

I still wish some of those maps could be ported to JA (not dumbed down but directly ported with updated eye candy), they were great!

A "good ping" for JK/MotS was 100-200 ping (100s for is average for broadband). 500 was just barely playable, but more common for Dialup users. 550 and you're pushing it.

8 players and up was pretty much LAN-only territory, though people did try it in the early days (you could move around fine but you'd either be in an empty level or run into people who were frozen like statues). Most people played with 4 players, though the game supported up to 32 (theoretically, with a big enough map).


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
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Old 11-19-2003, 07:20 PM   #15
Tesla
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MOTS doesn't feel like an expansion pack to me, i mean JA isn't an x-pack of JO, they use the same game engine, very much like MOTS & JK do.
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Old 11-27-2003, 02:46 AM   #16
shukrallah
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yeah, its good, now if people will only play online
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Old 11-29-2003, 12:45 PM   #17
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i concur. (did i spell that right?)


Courage is not the absence of fear, it is the presence of fear and yet the will to go on...
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Old 02-26-2004, 05:37 AM   #18
acdcfanbill
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The Dark Tower is prob the best SP level i think ive ever played in any game

idontlikegeorge can you even concieve, much less remimber when top of the line connections were 9600 baud? Inhuman gfx, instant broadband connection, and less than steller MP gameplay are only recent inventions. Maybe if you were actually around and experianced JK1 in its day you might feel differently.

...and maybe im the only person who thinks that the better gfx have gotten, the worse gameplay has gotten.

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Old 02-27-2004, 11:04 AM   #19
txa1265
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As much as I love JK, the appearance of JKII obviated my desire to play sabers in JK. Period. I didn't like the sabers much in JK from the start - but, hey - it's a Star Wars game with lightsabers! I've played JK & MotS 3 or 4 times since JKII and once since JA and I still rank the whole series as:

1. JA
2. JKII
3. DF
4. JK

But that is just me - each one has its' plusses and minuses ... and I love all four

Mike


Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
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Old 02-28-2004, 07:47 AM   #20
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Am I the only one who thinks JA is the best? Simply for the highly complexed saber combat!
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Old 02-28-2004, 02:29 PM   #21
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I'm still a bigger fan of Dark Forces and Jedi Knight than Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. The latest two just seemed so... rushed. It seemed more geared towards graphics and the lightsaber that the guns were poorly designed and executed, both of them could have been A LOT better while Dark Forces and Jedi Knight were near perfect for their time.
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Old 02-28-2004, 06:08 PM   #22
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Well, the game is called JEDI outcast and JEDI academy. No Commando outcast ect.
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Old 02-29-2004, 02:03 PM   #23
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Yes, but while JEDI Knight had a fine balance between guns and the lightsaber, Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy have poorly designed guns and focuses more on the lightsaber. I'm a guy who likes balance, I'd rather see them more balanced and have focus on both guns and lightsabers rather than focusing primarily on the lightsaber and having poorly designed and executed guns.
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Old 03-01-2004, 05:12 PM   #24
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Well, acording to the SW universe and all, Lightsabers > Guns...its a fact.
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Old 03-01-2004, 05:53 PM   #25
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Of course, according to the Star Wars universe, can one guy lug around 11 different weapons and full ammo for all of them?

I'd probably rate them:

DF
JO
JK
JA

DF holds a lot of fond memories for me. Plus, it has the best music of all of them. I don't know why they didn't keep at least the 'Kyle Katarn' theme from DF for later games. It's the game that gave me the most stomach acid while playing it.

JO, becaues of updated saber and whatnot. Although JK is very close behind, because of the way the Dark Jedi were handled. I liked the way they did it in that game as opposed to JO and JA. It really felt like a climax when you fought a Dark Jedi, instead "Oh not again. Grip and Throw off the nearest cliff".


Quoth the Raven; "Nevermore, nevermore."
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