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Old 11-13-2003, 07:06 AM   #1
razorace
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Brainstorming: MP Bots

This thread is for discussing the sort of changes/enhancements we'd like for the MP bots.

I suggest the following:

- Make it so bots don't attempt to move towards a targeted opponent when doing navigational jumps/falls

- Make it so bots don't attempt to make navigational jumps for which they lack the nessicary force jump skill level.

- Make bots work for siege mode.


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Old 11-14-2003, 03:04 PM   #2
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I agree.

I'd add:

- Make bots use all the available moves for the particular saber they are wielding since most of the times they dont use them.

- Improve the AI a bit. Like in StreetFighter, the AI made the CPU controlled enemies use the right counter for a player executed move. The Bot Skill level modifies the reaction time and even if the bot will do the counter or not.

- Besides attack/counter attack moves, a somewhat random use of acrobatics as opposed to normal force jumping or running for map navigation would add some flavor.

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Old 11-18-2003, 08:46 AM   #3
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I'm thinking that the ideal solution to the current problem with general bot navigation would be to basically remove the current system of long sequencial loops and replace them with a linked group of waypoint "tracks" that the bots dynamically navigate to get around the map. Each "track" will sequencially take you from one link point to the next and then the AI will determine which track to pick from there.

There wouldn't be a difference in the actual waypoints (althou the ideal placement would be different) so you could use the old waypoint files. The difference would be in how the bots attempt to navigate them.


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Old 11-18-2003, 07:05 PM   #4
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Actually, I think that's how they do it right now Ace - you just have to modify how important getting a gun vs. fighting someone is to improve the AI. We'll see soon enough.
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Old 11-18-2003, 07:24 PM   #5
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Right now it might do that partially but it's not what we need. The bots automatically try to go the the next waypoint sequencially even when the waypoint is obviously too far away. This prevents us from using spread out waypoints to fill out the map. Instead, you gotta run multiple loops everywhere to just fill in alternate routes.

And they aren't switching routes when they should.


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Old 11-18-2003, 08:16 PM   #6
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I agree that they're behaving poorly right now, even with a skimply number of nodes in place they should think a little more.
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Old 11-19-2003, 08:11 AM   #7
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Agreed, I don't think we can really know for sure until the SDK is out but I suspect that it's either due to the bot "motivation" code not working or because their waypoint decision making sucks.


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Old 11-19-2003, 09:11 PM   #8
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Same page.
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Old 11-19-2003, 09:46 PM   #9
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Ideally, I think we could just ditch the patroling behavor completely and just have to bot always doing personal objectives (finding weapons, looking around spawn points for people to kill, etc).


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Old 11-19-2003, 10:32 PM   #10
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Actually, i think it's the aquisition of weapons/powerups that gives bots their 'patroling' behavior. So we have to lower the priority after they've gotten a decent weapon.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:35 PM   #11
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...."In theory," as we'll just have to see once the sdk is out.
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Azymn
Actually, i think it's the aquisition of weapons/powerups that gives bots their 'patroling' behavior. So we have to lower the priority after they've gotten a decent weapon.
I don't think that's it. If the bots were just attempting to get weapons, they would turn around and head different directions after picking up items. Instead, they seem to follow the sequencial path and get stuck in areas (which shouldn't happen since they could easily switch route paths.)


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Old 11-19-2003, 11:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
I don't think that's it. If the bots were just attempting to get weapons, they would turn around and head different directions after picking up items. Instead, they seem to follow the sequencial path and get stuck in areas (which shouldn't happen since they could easily switch route paths.)
Well, I didn't say they were just grabbing weapons - that's silly: of course they're doing other things.
Just that weapon pickup is one of the driving motivator behind the patrol behavior and node placement.
They wouldn't have to turn around after grabbing weapons: that's why i suggested adding it.
In the current implementation, if there was a weapon in front of them, turning around is inefficient - they just pick up weapons along the route lined with powerups. Watch a bot run through the jk2 bespin map, and you'll see the bots do just what you said - run out on the landing pad and grab a rocket launcher (sometimes even during combat), then turn around and resume their routes through nodes and powerups.
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Old 11-26-2003, 01:47 PM   #14
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I agree that we need to setup an internal bot objective - when he picks up a weapon we can tell the bot to do what comes next. However, if a bots objective is always the same, he is too predictable. Perhaps he needs to find the closest 'decent' weapon, and then determine a new objective.

The bots movements are completely unnatural, and their combat is sad. I'd like to see a revised and expanded waypointing system, but it'd take a lot of work.

Lots of folks would enjoy a good bot battle.


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Old 12-18-2003, 10:53 PM   #15
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Don't forget re-enabling "Bot Orders" (like in Quake3) for all team based gametypes!

"I am the leader"

"Luke cover me"

"Yes sir!"

etc.


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Old 02-04-2004, 04:41 PM   #16
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have the AI used a dumbed down version of the NPC code from SP modified to fit mp. For that matter, dumb down the npc code they are far to smart, not to mention guns are useless when they are jedi, U cannot beat JKA without using the saber 90% of the time. Have them target certain items, and then have sub priorities, like in capture the flag,

primary objective: Go to enemy flag, return to home flag
secondary objective 1: Destroy enemy flag carrier
secondrary objective 2: Destroy enemy players
secondary objective 3: Gain weaponry
secondary objective 4: Avoid gaps
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Old 02-04-2004, 04:55 PM   #17
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In JMMod, I've been adjusting the way bots use weapons. Getting them to use the concussion rifle and alt fire DEMP2 and flechette is fairly easy.

I may get them to use the disruptor in sniper mode too, and I'd like to get them to lay mines on armour pickups.

They also spawn with a collection of big guns, which makes them more of a threat.
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