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Old 12-10-2005, 03:09 PM   #81
DSbr-FlashRam
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I've been playing this series a long time. I feel like JK2 is by far the superior game to JKA. JKA is a much more newbie friendly game, clearly designed to cater to the saber rpg crowd. Let's take a look at the two games:

BaseJK vs Basejka
-=----------------
Differences in BaseJKA -

Improved Graphics - The graphics do look smoother in JKA, but I really don't care about that stuff. I play games for gameplay.

Removed Kick - This was a horrible decision by raven. This removed many of the most elite moves in jk2 (grip kick, pull kick, pull throw kick) and made saber only Full Force gametypes unplayable. The competitive S/o FF players were and are by and large anti-mod, and so they just quit the series en masse.

Added Wall Climb - I feel like this was a newbie addition, considering the removal of:

Removed Rocket, Golan, Repeater Jumping - One of the most elite things in the whole game were these trick jumps, which I still use to devestating effect in jk2 ctf. These took serious time and skill to master. I know people who have played for 3 years who still can't rocket jump. To remove these thigns in favor of a newbie skill like wall climbing sums up the differences between JK2 and JKA in a nutshell.

Changed hit detection - This is a very controversial subject amoung gunners. Here is my opinion on the matter after playing both games quite a bit: The JKA hit detection is clearly buggy. Even those who stand up for it as being more elite than jk2 hit detection admit that it's flawed and that hits that *should* land mysteriously miss the target completely. They argue that simply because it's "harder" to land hits in jka that it's "more elite". I completely disagree. The buggy hit detection in jka has lead to spam over aim. Players simply grab the RL or heavy repeater and spam floor/wall shots. In jk2, if you aim dead on, you always get the hit and it always does more damage. The result is that precision players are rewarded for superior dead on aim, over players who simply wall/floor spam. This makes JK2 a more precision oriented game. Also, in jk2, more weapons are viable. Most people in JKA just run for the Rocket Launcher because it's so much more effective than the other weapons. In JK2, the Golan is a fearsome weapon, that can be just as or more dangerous than the RL. This makes it so one needs to master more than one weapon to be a true beast.

Different maps - CTF_ns_streets is a genius map. The level of detail and thought put into every aspect of it is staggering. From the perfect heights for Rocket Jumping up to a level, to the perfect golan jump distances....it's a brilliant map that nothing in jka can match. The team that designed JK2 is the same team that designed Quake 4. That is, the best of the best at Raven. The raven scrubs designed jka, and it shows.

Let's move on.

JK2 mod newbies vs JKA mod newbies
-----------------------------------
JKA mod games are unplayable. From jetpacks to grapple hooks, the mods like slider's ja+ have ruined that game. Someone who doesn't want to be killed is basically invincable on those mods. There is nothing like this in jk2. Granted, admins can make themselves invincable in jk2 just like in jka, but random players can't use jetpacks and grapples to run away from superior players, giving them a false sense of skill. This also keeps the legit and more elite forms of map running in place, so that master strafe jumpers and map navigators continue to dominate as they should.
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:43 PM   #82
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shut up bitch

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Old 12-12-2005, 02:32 AM   #83
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Correct me if Im wrong DSbr-FlashRam but the server you play on is 1.04 thats not the much different from JKA. The best version of JKO is 1.02 thats the one that requires the most skill. Saber attacks an moves are so nerf in 1.04 the same way weapons were nerfed from JKO to JKA. But to an even greater degree. 1.02 saber combat with/without force is the truest test of skill. Thats why you still see 80 servers of JKO 1.02 still running to this day.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:08 AM   #84
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still flaming, melord? =SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

and snakeeyes...LOL 1.02 the most skill. what, you mean newbies doing pull + backstab? you should see some 1.02, or maybe it's 1.03, demos of gun matches with the gunners doing that backstab ****, it's ridiculous and funny as hell.

actually, i played once on a 1.04 server that was modded like 1.02 and that **** was newb. i still came out on top though.
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:22 AM   #85
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1.02 has its merits, and i've played it quite a bit, but in the end it's just too simple. One dominant move in sabers. 1.04 is much more balanced and requires a wider range of skills. It's considerably more difficult to master all of the s/o ff moves (pull kick, pull throw kick, grip kick) than it is to master the only dominant 1.02 move (pull backstab) which is incredibly easy. One can master the move in all of 20 minutes if they have any skill in gaming whatsoever. Having said that, Full Weapon, Full Force, CTF is clearly the "truest test of skill" in JK series as it requires one to be a master of all the most difficult skills, and the most difficult skill of all in the series...strafe jumping. CTF also requires the most thinking and original thought out of all the various gametypes.
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Old 12-12-2005, 03:57 PM   #86
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Pull to backstab is not the end all. That just shows how much you know. If you get knockdowned you just turn on rage/protection an it counters it allowing you to stand. An there are more ways to counter getting knocked down as well. And Im not talking absorb, there is duel standing, push/pull buffers if you even know what that means.
That is the most involved-skill-required fighting in any JK, lots of good attacks AND counter attacks an measures. If you get owned by backstab, then your the noob.lol
Ive been playing JKO since the 1st week it came out, an Im still finding new ways to improve my saber attacks with and without force. And I myself use much more difficult moves other than backstabs to kill.

LOL strafe jumping is difficult? Try spiking DFA multi-knockdown combos. Push(knockdown) saber throw , before they stand drain for a second pull kick(knockdown) then spiking a DFA before your opponent stands, THEN come to talk to me. Theres a lot more than most realize to 1.02 which is a very sad thing. I remember when DFA'ing used to be tough then it got easy. Then backstabin was tough, then it got easy. Then spiking was tough, then it got easy. Then it was blue crouch attack immediately after jumping, then it was duel standing, then it was crouch swings in DFA. All easy now but I think the last one still giving me trouble, for fun, rage DFA into duel standing pose as you hit them an still killing someone with your saber, lol. Ive only be able to do that once so far on purpose, lol.

Heres another one I do. Someone knocks me down, I wait till the split second they get ready to hit me as I stand an turn dark rage on as they hit me so I survive, that then leaves me enough force to pull twice. Since rage adds speed to your movement I can easily pull buffer a kick from a greater distance than normal, most dont pickup on this I usually score a knockdown, with rage swing speed increase I can COMPLETE a DFA BEFORE they can stand an turn my rage off AS I HIT THEM. When you recover from using rage you slow down which in turn makes your swings slow. So I use the rage swing speed increase to get the DFA off fast then turn it off in the middle of hitting them so the swing slows down as you hit them an you can DFA bury into their asses hitting them 3+ times killing anything. Extremely difficult to do.

With 1.03-1.04 an JKA there some massive changes to Push and pull ,that most dont even realize, and virutally all the force powers. A butt load of little things that make a world of difference. 1.02 is superior to all other versions in everyway. There are so many techniques that work/are there in 1.02 that arent in 1.03 an up that its not even funny. For instance, you cant spike in 1.03, you cant do that rage thing I do in 1.03 because of the way you perform DFA in 1.03 an the movement lock on it.

Last edited by SnakeEyes; 12-12-2005 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 12-12-2005, 04:54 PM   #87
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Hmmm... I'll disagree.

Circle gets the square!

I agree with FlashRam that 1.04 Sabre takes a lot more skill to play well. I agree to this by drawing from my own experiences in JK2, and the reason I moved from being a S/O player in version 1.02/1.03 to an almost exclusive full weapon player in 1.04.

I found the sabre combat in 1.04 was very difficult to master (I did eventually pick up those skills, however, and not without the generous help from great players such as FlashRam, ReBoRN, and KyNeS) when compared to the ease at which I conquered the skills necessary for proficient fragging in S/O 1.02 and 1.03. As a result of this increased difficulty, I began focusing on playing full weapon JK2 and nearly gave up on S/O until the competitive Teamwarfare CTF/TDM full weapon ladders eventually closed, at which point I began playing S/O and full weapon nearly evenly.

One thing should be distinguished here, though, and that is the difference between skill required and enjoyment acquired. I enjoyed playing S/O a lot more in 1.02/1.03 than in 1.04, but I can't deny that it took a great deal more skill to compete in 1.04 than it did in 1.02/1.03, and, perhaps if I had been a more skilled player in 1.04 S/O myself, I may have found it to be much more rewarding (for the skills mastered and put to use) and enjoyable.

Another noteworthy distinction to make note of is that I talk a lot about my inadequacies in relation to skills required, and this should not be confused with complete lack of skill. It is fairly safe for me to say that I am considered to be remarkably skilled in all aspects of JK2. /arrogance

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Old 12-12-2005, 05:12 PM   #88
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Snake, I don't really feel like getting into a big debate with you over 1.02 over 1.04. If you've been playign since the first week the game was out and havn't heard of DSbr and, for that matter, Hoodwinker (the greatest trick jumper in jk series history) you have clearly been in total under the radar newb circles your whole time playing the game. End of story. This cannot be debated.
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Old 12-12-2005, 06:06 PM   #89
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I saw a couple posts were you say saber combat is easy an took someone 3 days to master was it?
It sounds like you people never or hardly ever played 1.02. Ive played them all on the other hand. 1.04 saber combat theres nothing to master, push an pull are worthless, there are no tactics to saber fighting at all. 1.03 an 1.04 saber combat is a joke, 1.02 on the other hand is what real saber combat is an was supposed to be.
And again saying strafe jumpin is hard? thats a little much dont you think?
If stafe jumping is hard, then half the stuff I posted earlier would considered impossible.
I always wondered why people play 1.03 an 1.04 its cause they dont know half of what they think they know about 1.02.
CTF consists of someone using absorb an speed jumping with the flag, compare that to what I posted. lol
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:18 PM   #90
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Dude you have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know how to strafe jump, trust me. You have no clue how to play ctf, and would have 0 chance of capping on any of us. 1.04 saber only full force is quite complex. Grip kick, pull throw, pull throw kick, pull kick...there are many things that add tactics to 1.04 saber only. The best full force saber only players ever (the guys who invented the aforementioned moves and dominated the TWL ladders) all would agree with me that 1.04 is more complex. As for ctf, you have 0 business discussing that gametype with us.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:23 PM   #91
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Snake, if you have a clan, get 3 of your boys together. DSbr will reinstall to 1.02 and play you guys @ 1.02 in basejk full weapon ctf and saber only full force tdm. That's probably the only way you're going to realize who you are dealing with here.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:54 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSbr-FlashRam
Dude you have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know how to strafe jump, trust me. You have no clue how to play ctf, and would have 0 chance of capping on any of us. 1.04 saber only full force is quite complex. Grip kick, pull throw, pull throw kick, pull kick...there are many things that add tactics to 1.04 saber only. The best full force saber only players ever (the guys who invented the aforementioned moves and dominated the TWL ladders) all would agree with me that 1.04 is more complex. As for ctf, you have 0 business discussing that gametype with us.
I got news for you buddy, I invented pull kicks, pull throw kicks, ect. an many more that you've obviously havent never even heard of. People were pull backstabing since week 3-4, by then I had already moved on to using rage to recover and spike combos and pull kicks. Its you that dont know who your dealing with. Ive played CTF just as pick-ups, I dont clan, I go into server an start **** till i get 3-4 people on me an usually smoke them all at once. But my point being 1.04 an the pansy's that play dont have a clue. You want to find me, my current incarnation, name- AllURBaseAreBelongToUS.
My Alias's-
Faker He-Man
InOrdrToSeeTheLghtUmustDIE
And now, not . . .
All Up In Tha Koolaid
WhatWillisWasTalkinBout
lots more-

Original name- Snake Eyes
Why do I use alias's? Cause people started to hunt me down server by server.
8-9 people trying to duel challenge me at once.But one time, lol, I logged onto a duel server an someone typed, "oh no not snake eyes" an logged off. I did it to hide an for good reason, now everyone seems to do it for fun.

In 1.03-1.04 and JKA Ive owned people with kicks(for dmg only) an saber throws alone, regular swings an knockdowns being so ineffective that they arent worth using. But Im really intrugued to see how well you would do. 1.04 is a blockfest easy to stop virtually any attack, that why your playing guns I assume? heh
Seriously though, I might sound like Im full of sh!t, even when I go back an read what I typed, Im laughing, but its all true.lol
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:28 PM   #93
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LOL....alright, do you have xfire? I'm definately going to play you, and on your own homeground too. pm me with your xfire if you have it and we'll set up some games. I'll post all demos and screenshots on these forums when we're done.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:00 PM   #94
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Hood and I were just talking...it really is so true that our group of gamers are the only people in this game with any balls at all. We're the only people willing to play under any settings, any conditions, anytime. Take melord. He'll go on and on about how guns are newb, sabers take the most skill, and then not only will he refuse to play me in weapons, he in the end backs down from playing me in HIS OWN GAMETYPE sabers as well....(sent me an insult filled PM refusing to play me today). This goes on and on. I'm not a saberist, but i'm perfectly willing to play him at sabers. Now for this snakeeyes guy. he is going to go on and on about 1.02 being better than 1.04. I'm totally willing to play him in 1.02 a version I've barely ever played. You know he wouldn't come play 1.04 against me in a million freaking years. I have confidence in my ability to own in JK2 on any settings, and any version. That's an elite jk2 player. If all one can do is NF sabers, which amounts to 15% of the total game, that's just not elite. And if all one can do is hide out on a completely dead version and own newbies who just installed and don't know any better about installing patches, that's pretty sad. Xfire me up snakeeyes.
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:19 PM   #95
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SnakeEyes, there are tons of players who developed those tactics on their own. Pull+kick, pull+backstab, grip+kick, protection or rage to avoid being killed by backstab... these are all very basic combinations of simple game elements. ****, bots do pull+throw (even if it is unintentional).

I'm not sure how you think peoples' brains are working around here (I give these good people at LucasForums a bit more credit than you do), but I'll tell you that when I tried out rank 3 pull on someone, and it brought them falling to the ground and at my feet, it wasn't very difficult for me to integrate to that a simple backstab attack for a quick frag, and it wasn't that difficult for my opponents to use protection or rage to counter the devestating effects of the backstab attack. I doubt very much that such basic concepts were pioneered by you and distributed to the masses via your tutelage, considering that within the small group of friends I initially played with, we were all able to easily discover these basic tactics on our own, including pull+kick, grip+kick, etc.

When I first started playing on MSN's Gaming Zone, I competed in various 2v2's with players that were adept at these basic maneuvers as well, which leads me to conclude that it is highly ignorant that any one player claim invention of these simple tactics. Myself, having discovered them with friends after a few days of playing the game and trying all sorts of various combinations of force powers and sabre attacks, find it incredibly plausible to believe that many others perfected these simple combinations during the game's infancy as well.

Don't bother telling me whatever other "revolutionary" combinations you created, they've all been done before and developed by players without any knowledge of them previous to discovering them on their own. I will guarantee this.
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Old 12-13-2005, 12:20 PM   #96
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Ya I know it does sound stupid. I knew it when I typed it. An I was thinking exactly what your thinking. The only way to truely describe it is, I was the 1st person I saw doing those combinations for many months. Even to this day a lot of my moves no one does.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:14 AM   #97
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:02 AM   #98
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JK2 is mostly filled with bitter newbies like yourself who think they are elite. When someone like myself comes around who is on a level they havn't considered skill wise, and completely destroys them, it crushes their fantasy of being a strong player. In their confusion, frustration, and anger they decide to simply ban me so that they can go back to living in their comfortable little fantasy world of defeating newbies and thinking they are one of the best.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:28 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSbr-FlashRam
JK2 is mostly filled with bitter newbies like yourself who think they are elite. When someone like myself comes around who is on a level they havn't considered skill wise, and completely destroys them, it crushes their fantasy of being a strong player. In their confusion, frustration, and anger they decide to simply ban me so that they can go back to living in their comfortable little fantasy world of defeating newbies and thinking they are one of the best.
Well,i think it's time for you to silence down now.
You don't come to a forum to tell everybody they're noobs and your so great and wonderfull..
Mostly the ones who think they own every server are the real noobs.
So don't abuse this thread to yell at everybody that they're noobs and just act normal.
I hope you learned a lesson out of this before the moderators also ban you of this forum..


I'm floating, and something's reaching out.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:41 AM   #100
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:43 AM   #101
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Everyone, calm the **** down.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:47 AM   #102
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Insane sith is right. You to melord quit it.
If he didn't learned his lesson he will be banned surely so it's not your problem.
I hope you guys use the forums to talk and ask properly about the games.
And don't abuse any thread to yell at each other.
Just read my post above and act normal..


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Old 12-14-2005, 11:55 AM   #103
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:01 PM   #104
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LoL... stop kissing the mod's arse mmmkay? she/he posted that like right after I posted mine and she/he was replying to you my friend! my god....

(and I..of course, I'm no saint)

The fact of the matter is, flashram and his school buddies have been baiting this forum and getting banned time after time for far to long.
There you go again..
I'm just saying how it is..
Quit arguing with flashram and use the forums properly,and yeah i argue too sometimes but i know when to quit..


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Old 12-14-2005, 12:12 PM   #105
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:39 PM   #106
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LoL!!!!! Hey melord, why don't you just meet me on a neutral server that i'm not banned from? I've asked you several times, and given you dates, times and server ip's but now you just refuse to play me at all.
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:44 PM   #107
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Okay well quit then, your the one that blamed your little tirade on me because god forbid the mod see you act in anger.

Please explain how I'm not using the forums properly? Furthermore you were just arguing with flashram so how does that work?

You can quit now.
This thread is about if you play JO not about arguing who is the best at the game.If you want to argue about it do it in pm and not in a thread.That's why (in my opinion) you two are not using this forum properly.I don't know what the moderators think of this but it's my opinion.If you want to argue about the fact that you are the best at the game and you own everybody and everybody else is a noob do it in pm


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Old 12-14-2005, 12:54 PM   #108
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:58 PM   #109
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Actually if you even bothered to read my replies above, you'll see that I was chastizing them for their pedestrian bragging.

But you didn't, your the deputy mod in town and your gunna bring us to justice huh?
Fine keep on arguing.This is not my problem neither my concern..
Keep on arguing and giving childish comments.


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Old 12-14-2005, 01:00 PM   #110
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:03 PM   #111
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oh man, LOL you guys are cracking me up. Look how serious you're getting about this. MELORD I OWN U!!!!!!!!

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Old 12-14-2005, 02:14 PM   #112
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I've said all there had to be said in my opninion.
And yeah i think it's time for me to get the old JA back outta the dust install it again and play it again.


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Old 12-14-2005, 02:19 PM   #113
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Okay well quit then, your the one that blamed your little tirade on me because god forbid the mod see you act in anger.

Please explain how I'm not using the forums properly? Furthermore you were just arguing with flashram so how does that work?

You can quit now.
look through your post history, how many of your posts are actually relevant to the topic of the thread? I have yet to see any constructive post or comment - for all I see from you are repetitive and cliched flamebaits and insults. You claiming the moral highground of "chastizing" others is nothing short of hypocritical.
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:46 PM   #114
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:59 PM   #115
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Old 12-14-2005, 03:12 PM   #116
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Enjoy your temp ban melord. See you in two days.

Everyone else, calm down. This is not a thread to discuss who is better and why. Flash, make a thread of places he can face you so you can kick his ass and be done with it.


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I am life without limit.”
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:18 PM   #117
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I should wait until his ban is over.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:28 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by DSbr-FlashRam
I should wait until his ban is over.
I should just leave him alone.
If he didn't learned his lesson by now he'll surely be banned again.


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Old 12-15-2005, 04:18 AM   #119
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In fact he's been a naughty knave.


Gnaa!
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Old 12-16-2005, 05:25 PM   #120
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Wink

heeyaah

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