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Old 03-04-2004, 04:51 PM   #241
ET Warrior
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I really doubt that Skinwalker or 'Jais would have deleted a post of yours. I haven't even SEEN'Jais in here for a really long time, and Skinwalker would only have edited it out if it were amazingly offensive and derogatory and unnecessary. And i'm sure, since this is the senate and we don't want things going left unexplained, there would have been a note left by the mod/admin who decided that post didn't need to be there. Perhaps you posted during a system hiccup and it just didn't get posted. I would recommend trying again.



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Old 03-04-2004, 04:58 PM   #242
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A system hiccup? Is that what its called when everything go's so slow you can't get on? Well I'm a little glad it did, now. Its awful personal. I'm not sure if I even want to give it to Kain now, can't you just forget it if I agree not to post in this thread anymore?
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Old 03-04-2004, 05:32 PM   #243
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I guess it's up to you really. If you find it to personal and don't want to share it with random people over the internet then that's your perogative.



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Old 03-04-2004, 06:01 PM   #244
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what yould be so personal about you and gays, hiroki? i an only think of one reason and that would be if a gay guy tried to "rape" you.. err.. it would be at least one possibility and would explain why you dont necessarily want to hang you with gays..
and if .. well .. there are others who've gone through the same.. (other women/ men, not me..)

serious topic though, so nothing was meant offensive or something like that.


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Old 03-04-2004, 07:08 PM   #245
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If it is what I think it is, because this is the ONLY possible reason he may have said it was personal, is because a family member of his is gay and is dating someone like 20 years older than him, but I'm not sure. The post that got deleted said(and I'm quoting to the best of my knowledge)

Quote:
i don't like it when younger people date older people, and its even worse when their gay. worse of all is I have a (Kain not remember family member) who's homosexual and dating someone thats 20 years older than him
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:02 PM   #246
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I never said it was worse, I said I thought it was worse, just becouse I think its worse doesn't mean it is. And I didn't actually write like that, first of all, I ALWAYS cap my I's, so you know thats not me.

And anyway, I don't think its that much worse. Its mostly the guy he's dateing, he just isn't right...he isn't the first older guy he's dated eather.
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Old 03-04-2004, 08:09 PM   #247
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i thik kain just recalled that quote from mind since that post seems to be lost..

and i remember you saying something like that ..

also dating 20 year older people is not only "strange" if it happens between gays..


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Old 03-04-2004, 08:47 PM   #248
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I never said it was an EXACT quote. I said it was quoting what I remember and then filling in the blanks. Please read all of my posts.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:11 PM   #249
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Well, you're right, its not just strange betwean gays. The first gay man he dated was when he was 13. The guy he dated was in his late 40's, and was his teacher aswell. Fortunatly his father found out, and put a restraining order on the sick Peado.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:47 PM   #250
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Pedophilia is Pedophilia, no matter the sexuality involved. Atleast we can agree on that.
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Old 03-18-2004, 04:52 AM   #251
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The American Anthropological Association made a public statement on it's position on Gay Marriage:

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"The results of more than a century of anthropological research on households, kinship relationships, and families, across cultures and through time, provide no support whatsoever for the view that either civilization or viable social orders depend upon marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. Rather, anthropological research supports the conclusion that a vast array of family types, including families built upon same-sex partnerships, can contribute to stable and humane societies.

The Executive Board of the American Anthropological Association strongly opposes a constitutional amendment limiting marriage to heterosexual couples."
The Association also quite readily refuted Bush's nonsensical and narrowminded description of the family unit: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGSK59NGM1.DTL

President Bush stated (in the State of the Union address, I believe) the following:

Quote:
The union of a man and woman," the president said, "is the most enduring human institution, honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith. Ages of experience have taught humanity that the commitment of a husband and wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society. Marriage cannot be severed from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening the good influence of society."


"If he were to take even the first semester of anthropology, he would know that's not true," said Segal, a member of the anthropological association's Executive Committee.

The evidence is against Bush with the "widespread" Native American berdache tradition (in which males assumed female roles and married other males) and the existence of "sociological males" (women who assume male roles) among the Nuer of Sudan as examples of ways that societies have condoned same-sex marriage without collapsing.

The misguided fallacy that a moral decline is ensuing and that the push for gay marriage is a result of everyone defining their own morals is hogwash and cannot be empirically supported. This fallacy is only evidence of a self-defined "moral right" placing its own culture first and ignoring a rich diversity in the world, past and present.


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Old 03-18-2004, 06:01 AM   #252
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SkinWalker's post only proves one thing: People are against what they are ignorant of.

HAHA!! That'll learn those upity Fundamentalists.
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Old 03-22-2004, 04:39 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kain
People are against what they are ignorant of.
Further, people are AFRAID of what they are ignorant of.



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Old 03-22-2004, 06:15 AM   #254
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I didn't read this whole topic just the first post, so bear with me.
This is the silliest thing in the world! Why should anyone care what anyone is doing consentually to anyone else? Sure I'm not thrilled to see gay men kiss on the news(women are diffrent!). But then I hate rollerbladers. does that mean we should ban rollerblading because they hog bike paths, and look silly in their biker shorts? No.

This is a free country and one of the side effects of that freedom is that there are going to be people doing things you do not whole-heartly approve of. Too bad! No one's going to force you to marry anyone you don't want to(unless you're mormon), so why do you care? Religion? This is a secular country! Nowhere in the constitution does it say you, Reborn Outcast, of lucas forums, get to give the go ahead before anyone can have hot, hot, gay sex, or get married.
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:46 AM   #255
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Well stated, Cain(Hehe, we're Kain and Cain).

The whole up-in-arms-against-gay-marriages comes from the whole issue never having come up before. I'm sure some people here would have been against the Civil Rights movement if it had never come up before and we were dealing with it for the first time.

I've got a small message for everyone against gay-marriages:
HOMOPHOBIA IS A DEAD INSTITUTION!! DEAL WITH CHANGE CAUSE IT'LL HAPPEN WHETHER OR NOT THE CHRISTIAN MAJORITY WANTS IT TO!!

Ta.
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Old 03-28-2004, 09:47 PM   #256
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Finding the topic highly interesting, I decided to read this thread. I was looking forward to a thorough discussion, wondering what gamers like myself thought of Same Sex Marriage. Sadly, instead of finding members stating their opinions and explaining why they believed in whatever they did, I uncovered an absolutely different situation...not to mention revolting.

Almost all of this thread contained people trying to prove others wrong. Rather than take the views of others and state their own, the situation here is more like read other thoughts, find all the negative points (make 'em up if they don't exist), go confront the opposer and eat him/her alive.

I must say I'm rather impressed by the way Hiroki has managed to withstand all these feroucius attacks. Way to go Hiroki . You rule!

As for the rest (I'm sure u all know which of you I'm talking about).... Kids stop whinning.


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Old 03-28-2004, 10:06 PM   #257
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Heh, this is a highly debated topic in my high school. Here is what I think: Homosexuals and bisexuals are people. They have their own beliefs. I'm not saying that I agree with them (I used to want to kill them all), but they are living breathing people with different opinions. I respect the ability to have a different opinion. Now, here is the problem: I sincerely believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, nothing else. Also, a friend revealed that he was bisexual, and now, I don't get along with him. I just think: Ignorance is bliss. Which it was for me in my case.
So, same-sex marriages should be allowed, but, there should be many limitations. Like, no molesting (most molesters aren't straight), no underage sex, and no imposing their opinion on to other people (basically not letting bisexuals and homosexuals try to convince people to become bisexual or homosexual).
That is what I think, and I'm sure people will be angry with me for saying such things. Personally, I just need to do one thing: Keep them away from me and make sure they aren't, umm, after me.




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Old 03-29-2004, 12:48 AM   #258
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Crappy belief. Gay people and Bisexuals don't go after straight people.
No gay man ever tried to "turn" people to homosexuality. They know it can't be done and vice-versa.

How do you know molesters aren't straight? Some of them have fmailies and everything but they still do it. Molesting also includes girls and boys. That's very untrue.

What does no underaged sex mean? It's not like gay guys go for young teens. you'll be amazed at how many straight perverts go after teens.


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Old 03-29-2004, 12:49 AM   #259
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sulah
Kids stop whining.
And in an unlrelated news topic, Pot calls Kettle black! More at 6.



It's a debate forum. The main purpose of debate is not to simply state and re-state your opinions, if all we did was state our own opinions threads would last until everyone had posted once, and then they'd be over. The point of debate is to prove the fallacies of the other sides arguments, using fact and logic and big words to impress the masses.



Quote:
So, same-sex marriages should be allowed, but, there should be many limitations. Like, no molesting (most molesters aren't straight), no underage sex, and no imposing their opinion on to other people (basically not letting bisexuals and homosexuals try to convince people to become bisexual or homosexual).
Ahhh, where should I begin....First of all, Molesting is already illegal, whether you're gay or straight, sexual preference should have no bearing on a law against molestation. Underage sex is ALSO already illegal, so assuming that only homosexuals practice that is extremely biggoted and shortsighted.
As for imposing their opinion....I'm not really sure how to respond. It's called freedom of speech firstly. They can say whatever they want to say. If they want to spout pro-homosexual ideas till they turn blue in the face, they have that right. You said yourself they're people.
Furthermore, just having a homosexual telling you to turn gay IS NOT going to turn you gay.

Quote:
Also, a friend revealed that he was bisexual, and now, I don't get along with him. I just think: Ignorance is bliss. Which it was for me in my case.
If I were in the same sitaution as your friend I would have told you too, and if you had chosen to not be my friend, I'd be glad that I rooted out someone I thought was my friend, but apparently wasn't because he couldn't accept me for who I was.



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Old 03-29-2004, 01:26 AM   #260
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80% of (male)child molestors are straight. 70% of those cases it was boys that were molested.
Most gay guys I know, usually give up when the guy tells that he's not gay.
I have never met a gay person that imposes homosexuality upon me.

I have a question, why do most people think gay people are always after them?

I personally am flattered when someone hits on me, regardless of gender, I simply point out that I'm not gay and thank them even will offer them a drink.


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Old 03-29-2004, 02:01 AM   #261
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I'm confused as to when this became about child molestation...
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Old 03-29-2004, 02:49 AM   #262
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It became into child molestation when someone stated that gays commonly molest kids.


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Old 03-29-2004, 05:58 AM   #263
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
It became into child molestation when someone stated that gays commonly molest kids.
Which of course can be rooted back to THIS comment
Quote:
find all the negative points (make 'em up if they don't exist)
...which can be traced as an insult to anyone who is pro-gay marriage, given who's defense Sulah came too. Maybe he didn't read all of Hiroki's biggot remarks, only mine. Quite the hypocrite.
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Old 03-29-2004, 06:10 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sulah
Finding the topic highly interesting, I decided to read this thread. I was looking forward to a thorough discussion, wondering what gamers like myself thought of Same Sex Marriage.
I'd also like to note that nowhere in your post complaining about us not giving our opinions, did you actually give your OWN opinion.


It seemed relevant.



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Old 03-30-2004, 01:30 AM   #265
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Heh, you're all right, of course. Even ET Warrior about the bisexual friend thing. I sorta suspected something. Also, I can't always be the good person, I have to be evil too. The dark side is calling to me...O.K., too much Star Wars. Anyway, I think of being homosexual or bisexual more gruesomely. Like, in the case of my former friend, we could dis him all the time and say that he wanted to umm, give blow jobs. But now, it is true, and that is just sickening for me. Also, I feel sorta betrayed. Like he lied to me the whole time. Which, he did, he just told me the truth a little (O.K., not a little) late. But, you guys can argue forever about this, as you have done for the past seven pages. You see, one of my friend in tenth grade has tried to reason with me, but, I'm only 14 and too stuborn.




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Old 03-30-2004, 01:49 AM   #266
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I don't know you or your friend majin, but its probably safe to assume that he dealt with his emotions for a long time and finally realized it not too long before telling you.

Or maybe he hid it from you because you would tease him and he figured you were a big homophobe.
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Old 03-30-2004, 02:12 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally posted by majinrevan
Heh, you're all right, of course. Even ET Warrior about the bisexual friend thing. I sorta suspected something. Also, I can't always be the good person, I have to be evil too. The dark side is calling to me...O.K., too much Star Wars. Anyway, I think of being homosexual or bisexual more gruesomely. Like, in the case of my former friend, we could dis him all the time and say that he wanted to umm, give blow jobs. But now, it is true, and that is just sickening for me. Also, I feel sorta betrayed. Like he lied to me the whole time. Which, he did, he just told me the truth a little (O.K., not a little) late. But, you guys can argue forever about this, as you have done for the past seven pages. You see, one of my friend in tenth grade has tried to reason with me, but, I'm only 14 and too stuborn.
the only way I can figure he "lied" to you, would be if you asked if he was bisexual and he said no. Just by not telling you, doesn't make him a liar, just means he didn't tell you something. Why should you feel betrayed by him being bisexual? how is that traitorous? betrayal would be what you did to him, stop being his friend just because of his sexual preference.


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Old 03-30-2004, 02:30 AM   #268
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Quote:
Originally posted by majinrevan
Like, in the case of my former friend, we could dis him all the time and say that he wanted to umm, give blow jobs. But now, it is true, and that is just sickening for me. Also, I feel sorta betrayed. Like he lied to me the whole time. Which, he did, he just told me the truth a little (O.K., not a little) late.
Considering you dissed him all the time with homosexual innuendos, I can understand why he didn't want to tell you he was gay.



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Old 03-30-2004, 02:39 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrion
Considering you dissed him all the time with homosexual innuendos, I can understand why he didn't want to tell you he was gay.
Exactly what I was going to say. Using homosexual references as a big cutdown would make it REALLY uncomfortable for someone to admit to being gay, since they can see that YOU think there is something wrong with them because of it.

Quote:
but, I'm only 14 and too stuborn.
stuborn? Or young, ignorant, and homophobic?



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Old 03-30-2004, 03:56 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Exactly what I was going to say. Using homosexual references as a big cutdown would make it REALLY uncomfortable for someone to admit to being gay, since they can see that YOU think there is something wrong with them because of it.



stuborn? Or young, ignorant, and homophobic?
we could call him misguided. ya know?

seriously, just because someone different than you, doesn't mean you should hate them.


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Old 03-30-2004, 09:56 PM   #271
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The thing about this thread that (almost) makes me laugh is how every time someone tries to express an opinion against gay marriage or homosexuality in general, especially on religious grounds, they're automatically labeled a bigot or a homophobe (or misguided or ignorant or hateful).

Now, I may be a bigot according to your definition of the word, but that doesn't mean that I'm not entitled to my opinion. The fact that I believe homosexuality is sin does not make me some kind of evil person. It means that I hold to a religious belief that is different from whatever you believe.

According to my personal beliefs, homosexuality is wrong. It is a sin. That is not hate speech, it is a statement of my beliefs. I do not hate gays. Whether you believe it or not, it is possible to not hate someone despite whatever sin they've committed...otherwise, accoding to the Bible (...for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Romans 3:23) I would go around each and every day hating everyone for their individual sins, and hating myself for my own sin. It would make for a pretty miserable life, and I'd be denying the most important aspect of Christianity: Godly love.
Furthermore, I believe that hatred and acts of hatred toward homosexuals is wrong. Teasing homosexuals is wrong. Hitting or beating homosexuals is wrong. Killing homosexuals is wrong.

Also, I am not a homophobe (at least, not in the traditional sense of the word: homo=same, phobia=fear). I do not fear homosexuals. I have no problem being around homosexuals. If a gay guy trys to hit on me or ask me out or whatever, it's simply a matter of saying, "no."

Personally, I resent the attempts in this thread to portray any person opposed to sexuality as a bigoted hatemongering homophobe who for some reason or another wants to hurt or distance themselves from homosexuals. I think majinrevan needs some life experience to get over whatever it is that bothers him so about homosexuals. But each and every person I've talked to at my church or in other places who opposes gay marriage has opinions similar to mine - we see marriage as a religious institution that should not officially recognize a sinful union. But we don't hate homosexuals.

Frankly, it pisses me off when I hear people characterize all Christians (or people of any other faith who oppose gay marriage) as homophobic bigots who want nothing more than to drag a gay man from the bumper of their truck. It pisses me off because it is not true. There are those people out there, but they are the minority!





Okay...I just needed to get that off my chest.
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Old 03-30-2004, 10:48 PM   #272
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every time someone tries to express an opinion against gay marriage or homosexuality in general, especially on religious grounds, they're automatically labeled a bigot or a homophobe (or misguided or ignorant or hateful).
..well, I think your right about being a bigot according to our definition - meaning the definition in the dictionary...

Quote:
big·ot
n.
a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
You don't have to:

Quote:
drag [gay men] from the bumper of [your] truck
..to be a bigot you know.


Homophobe? No - I believe you when you say you aren't a homophobe. You would probably be perfectly willing to make polite conversation with them. You just can't bring yourself to accept they deserve equal rights.

Misguided? Yes - I do believe your a bit misguided. No more explanation of that is needed I feel. Two people on different sides of an argument will always view the person on the other side as slightly misguided.

Ignorant? Well, it woudl seem you choose to remain ignorant about the proofs concerning the inborn nature of homosexuality that I and others (Skin especailly) have posted before on these forums. Although to be fair to you, you might have missed them - those threads are quite old now.
..in that case you would still be ignorant - though you couldn't be blamed for that till now.

..or perhaps this evidence means nothing to you - and to you the inborn nature of homosexuality is irrelavent. I would then be less concerned about your ignorance on the subject, but more concerned about your humanity and your rationalty...
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Old 03-30-2004, 10:54 PM   #273
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O.K., yeah, I get your point. I am young. But still, he always denied being homosexual or bisexual. Also, how is dissing him gonna hurt him? It's not like it's something strange to tell a person (in high school). People dis other people 24/7, not to mention in their sleep!!
Also, rccar328, I agree, I was just stating my opinion. I also agree that homosexuals or bisexuals shouldn't be hit or killed, but maybe teased (sorry, can't help it).




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Old 03-31-2004, 12:50 AM   #274
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Maybe he denied it because homosexuals are so looked down upon and persecuted these days. Maybe he figured if you knew he was gay you wouldn't be his friend anymore (which turned out to be correct) So he just didn't tell you.

Or maybe he just figured it out for himself, and told you, and was given the typical cold shoulder for it.

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every time someone tries to express an opinion against gay marriage or homosexuality in general, especially on religious grounds, they're automatically labeled a bigot
Not entirely true. If somebody said "I think homsexuality is wrong, but I also see that people have the right to live their lives, and they should be treated equally"

I would NOT label them a homophobe nor a biggot in that situation.



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Old 03-31-2004, 01:31 AM   #275
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Hum, the Bible says homosexuality is a Sin.

It also says eating meat on a Friday is a Sin.

What does THAT teach us?
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Old 03-31-2004, 01:57 AM   #276
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kain
Hum, the Bible says homosexuality is a Sin.

It also says eating meat on a Friday is a Sin.

What does THAT teach us?
friday is meat and gay sex night.


seriously now. As ET said anyone stating their belief of thinking homosexuality is wrong but that they should be able to live their lives I would definitely not call homophobic or even hateful. it's just a simple belief that I disagree with, But when someone states that homosexuals are "perverts, and child molestors" that's when I get upset, and when people tease homosexuals just because they are homosexual.


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Old 03-31-2004, 02:04 AM   #277
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I say that we should let them do whatever they want 'cause they're US Citizens.

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Old 03-31-2004, 02:32 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally posted by ET Warrior
Maybe he denied it because homosexuals are so looked down upon and persecuted these days. Maybe he figured if you knew he was gay you wouldn't be his friend anymore (which turned out to be correct) So he just didn't tell you.
To be fair, Majin said he wasn't the gay friend's friend anymore was because the friend lied, not entirely because he gay(although, I think that Majin probably would've done the same thing if his friend did tell the truth).

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Also, rccar328, I agree, I was just stating my opinion. I also agree that homosexuals or bisexuals shouldn't be hit or killed, but maybe teased (sorry, can't help it).
I do hope you're not a Christian, or else you're disobeying the Golden Rule(of course, judging from your reasoning it seems like you like being teased..).

Oh, and by the way, I'm 13, so the whole "I'm 14 and stubborn" act won't excactly do too well here.



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Old 04-02-2004, 08:33 PM   #279
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LOL, you are right about the 14 year old stubborn thing. No, I'm not Christian, I'm Hindu. Seriously. Most people don't believe me.




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Old 04-03-2004, 02:37 AM   #280
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Originally posted by majinrevan
LOL, you are right about the 14 year old stubborn thing. No, I'm not Christian, I'm Hindu. Seriously. Most people don't believe me.
I believe ya, I'm don't know much about the Hindu religion myself, I assume though that it does have something on treating others like you want to be treated, right? Correct me if I am wrong.



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