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Old 12-01-2003, 10:48 PM   #1
MasterN64
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SWGB III ideas

I think that after SWGB II there should be a SWGB III with the Expanded Universe Star Wars Characters and civs from the books. You know civs like the Yuuzghan Vong and Characters like Jacen Solo. You will have campaigns based on some of the books and adventures of some of the characters and civilizations. Mara Jade would have a purple lightsaber (as seen in MOTS) and her name would change to Mara Jade Skywalker. Kyle Katarn would be in this game(I would LOVE that.) You know thinhs like that. And anything else such as weapons, places, etc. I's be the first buyer!


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Old 12-01-2003, 11:42 PM   #2
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I'm not buying a game based on expanded universe.


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Old 12-02-2003, 01:45 AM   #3
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First of all, we need to have SWGB2 produced before there is a third.
Also, you say you would be the first buyer, and you probably be one of the ONLY buyer's, because most people dont know, or dont care, about EU, myself included.


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Old 12-02-2003, 04:30 AM   #4
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What a shame the first three replyees in this thread are Purists.

One thing you must understand, young mastern, is that Star Wars fans are divided into two categories. Those who love EU and accept it as part of the greater Star Wars mythology, and those who hate EU and reject any notion it could exist in the same universe as the movies. Among the more die-hard fans, the split is pretty much fifty/fifty, but if you look at all the Star Wars fan base there are more people who dislike or are oblivious of EU than otherwise. So whenever you include a large amount of EU in a game, you may appear very attractive to less than half of the Star Wars community but totally repellent or at least unfamiliar to the majority.

Both categories, the EU Fans and the Purists, do have something in common: they both love the movies. While some EU Fans like the EU more than the movies, a love of the movies is still in existence. Therefore, the best way to maximise sales to the Star Wars fan base is to center on the movies, not the EU. EU can play a minor role, but if the game focuses on it you are in for trouble.

The Lord of the Purists has spoken.


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Old 12-02-2003, 12:45 PM   #5
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SOmone else who sees sense thank you for coming to this forum Mastern we now have another person who isn't tighter than a baboons butt.

Personally though i think it should have some EU in since practically every game that is star wars has a large part of what the un-enlightend call EU but sensible people know as part of the greater truth since to say EU is evil is wrong since you need it to fill in the gaps because i think nobody on this froum is that stupid to think it is realistic to for the rebels to be yavin than to be magically teleported to hoth and then next movie to have suddenly built up this impresive starfleet. Little Details like those in EU bind the star wars universe together to deny EU is to be a fool since it is plain stupid to think the only planets in the star wars universe are Kamino Geonsis Tatooine Dantooine Courscant Endor and it's Moons Yavin and it's Moons Alderaan Bespin Dagobah and Hoth since most galaxy's have more than 11 planets.

Shame on you all you complain about not enough people coming to this forum and yet you chase people off by ghoing off the deep end with them

Enough of this hipocrasy


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Old 12-02-2003, 06:16 PM   #6
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Angry

!!! I cant beleive what i am reading. I didn't realize so many people didn't like the EU books and games. Those books and games are still part of Star Wars!!! I mean sure there isnt a movie about the EU, but still that shouldn't matter!!! (Apparently there isn't gonna be a SWGB III with so many people sayin they wouldn't like it, but its still a slight possibility)


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Old 12-02-2003, 07:23 PM   #7
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Now come to think of it, an EU game doesn't seem so bad anymore from a marketing perspective. Look at KOTOR. Huge success, 100% EU. Although KOTOR ain't based around the NJO(which sucks).
If they want an EU SW RTS, they'll have to make up a lot of stuff or the game must be amazing(like KOTOR) to compensate for the Yuuzhan Vong, New Republic, etc. crap.


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Old 12-03-2003, 12:46 AM   #8
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Ok, Vostok, there is also a lunatic fringe in your SW universe. They dont know/care about any thing beyond the movies, and thus are against EU, but are not purists. This would comprimise the most general buyer of the games, and the person that the marketer should pander to. I am one of them.


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Old 12-03-2003, 02:12 AM   #9
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Sith - yes I acknowledge those people - the majority of Star Wars fans in my opinion. I called them "oblivious" though maybe this word carries too many negative connotations.

Luke's Dad - I did have KOTOR in mind when writing what I wrote. The thing about KOTOR is it still strongly resembles the movies, even if it is set thousands of years before the movies. You have Jedi (which everyone knows), Sith (which everyone knows) and the Republic (which everyone knows). To introduce things like the Vong (which few people know), the Chiss (which few people know) and Mara Jade (who few people know) is what I object to.

Viceroy - I have nothing against the EU that fills in the gaps, but when it clashes with the movies I hate it. And it does the latter far too often for my liking. You have to understand my classifications of EU to appreciate my viewpoint: Extrapolations are okay, but stuff that relates in no way to the movies can't really be Star Wars, can it?


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Old 12-03-2003, 10:00 AM   #10
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I like EU and think it is interesting but I'm not interested at all at it getting turned into an RTS when an RTS based from the movies could be made.


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Old 12-17-2003, 12:21 PM   #11
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Thumbs up

I'm new here, but im leaning towards mastern's idea. (is there any chance that we could put green wing ((from Return of jedi)) in it?((i really like A-wings...)))
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Old 12-17-2003, 01:59 PM   #12
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Well from what i can tell people have some strong feelings for EU or anti-EU. There are still EU people out there (such as myself) that would like to see more games based on the EU. I like both movie based games and EU based games equally.
I know Mr. Lord of purists here hates EU but thats fine, he can miss out on a game he says he wouldn't like. But for the rest of us i think that a year or two after SWGB II there should be a SWGB III based on EU. Sure some people wouldn't buy it, but some would. Heck, maybe Lucasarts doesn't like the idea of a SWGB III and most of em are all purists! . Hope not. Maybe they love the idea and is gonna start making it after a while. (of course they would have to concern on how many people would actually buy the game, maybe they would put up a poll)
So, any1 else got anymore ideas? (if ur a purist plz hesitate to post!)


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Old 12-18-2003, 02:10 AM   #13
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Mastern, you're completely missing the point. First of all, KOTOR is NOT 100% EU like luke says.
Anyway, ask yourself a question now. If you want to sell the most number of copies of a game as you can to the general public, will you base it on the films, which almost everyone is familiar with, or on EU, which the majority are not familiar with?

Do you seriously believe that the genral public would prefer to fight EU battles rather than the opening of the clone wars, or the battle on Endor? I think not.


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Old 12-18-2003, 09:47 AM   #14
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Well personally if you can't except EU you can't except Star Wars cause once the movies stop thats the end of the purists there whole storyline is stuck in those walls and will never expand.


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Old 12-18-2003, 12:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Frozted_MM's
Well personally if you can't except EU you can't except Star Wars cause once the movies stop thats the end of the purists there whole storyline is stuck in those walls and will never expand.
Frozted_MM's has a good point. Once the movies are done EU will be the only thing in Star Wars that is expanding. Eventually either purists will die, or Star Wars will die.
Im sure there will be a few more games based on the movies but eventually EU will be the only thing left of Star Wars that is still going. Or dieing. You purists must understand that once the movies are done there will only be the EU, and if no one likes it, Star Wars will die!!!!!! (So what i am expecting now is some purist to reply to this post saying something that Star Wars won't die because blah blah blah.)
And to awnser ur question ur question Darth if u dont wont Star Wars to die then become familiar with EU!!!!


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Old 12-18-2003, 01:20 PM   #16
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Frozted - no offense, but learn to spell. The word you were looking for was accept , not except .

Mastern - Star Wars wont die because the movies have replay value, and becuase new generations will be exposed to it. EU is mearly a tag-along for the films.
I AM aware of Star Wars EU, some of it is good, some of it is shockingly bad.

The problem with EU is that some of it contradicts the films, with the result that the EU material becomes far less interesting and desirable. Furthermore, these inconsistances will push film-fans away from EU related products. Some of the inconsistances are-

Film: Boba Fett dies in Sarlacc Pit (GL said so)
EU: Boba Fett survived

Film: Geonosians designed Death Star
EU: some Imperial scientist in 'the maw' designed the Death Star

Film: Jedi do not get married
EU: some Jedi chick whinging that Mace Windu needs to get married coz everyone's doing it

Film: Jedi have Blue or Green Lightsabre (with one exception), Sith have Red
EU: anyone can have any colour (eg Leia with a Red Lightsabre in the Corellian trilogy!)

need i go on?


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Old 12-18-2003, 02:49 PM   #17
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OK, darth u have a point. There are a few things in the EU that do interfere with the movies, but not all don't have explinations. But u r wrong on a few things.

Boba Fett didn't actually die in the Sarlacc. Yes we dont know how but he has been used in many EU games and books.

The Death Star designers are a puzzle. So yes i do agree that this is a interference with the movies.

Yes, even master luke got married. The Old code does say for jedi not to get married. Anakin even said that love was forbidden. But times change and was seen that jedi can have feelings for others, but it was recognized that love can be dangerous at times, it can destroy a jedi, but jedi can get married now, but its not common, from what i have read.

Jedi can have any colored lightsaber they want, to suit there personality or favorite color. Where in the world did u get that rumor? There are a few jedi who have red sabers and there are a few dark jedi who have yelo(yun), white(Sariss), etc. However it is traditional for sith to have red sabers, but it does not apply to dark jedi.

And plz do go on darth. Any more questions for me to awnser?


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Old 12-18-2003, 06:24 PM   #18
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Yes Darth, KOTOR is almost totally EU. Most thing contained in it we're based off the movies but nevertheless that'S considered EU.

This isn't really about contradictions anymore, a game almost always contradict the movies. It's basically inevitable.

If someone wants to make an EU based game, they can hope for it(here I'm talking about a game based around the Yuuzhan Vong on other crap).

It'll probably never happen but let's leave them alone with it.


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Old 12-18-2003, 11:39 PM   #19
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Mastern: While you did request that Purists refrain from posting I feel I need to respond to your attacks on the Purist community.

You think Star Wars will die without EU? This I feel is a major difference between Purists and EUFs (Expanded Universe Fans - phrase coined by Vostok). EUFs don't see the movies as being strong enough for some reason, whereas Purists believe the Star Wars movies are timeless. Did Shakespear's Romeo and Juliet need accompanying literature to survive hundreds of years? What about the centuries that Homer's Odyssey or Sophocles' Oedipus Rex have endured? Why don't people need to know what happened to Oliver Twist or Huckleberry Finn when they grew up?

Star Wars doesn't need anything extra. It is a modern classic, powerful enough to stand the test of time - to be honest I question the fandom of the people who think the movies aren't good enough to survive on their own.

As for the EU contradictions:

George Lucas has explicitely stated he considers Boba Fett to have died in the Sarlaac. Allowing him to survive is in direct opposition to Lucas' vision, so how can it be Star Wars?

According to EU, Luke went out of his way to replicate the Jedi Order of old, traversing the galaxy in search of holocrons. The fact Jedi can love and get married, as well as begin their training in their mid twenties, directly contradicts the movies - I'm sure in his search Luke would have managed to find the Jedi Code, which according to the movies directly forbids both love/romantic attachment and over-age training.

With regards to lightsaber colours, the accompanying material on the Episode II DVD sees an exchange between Samuel L. Jackson and George Lucas. Sam asks "what colour can I have?" and George says "good guys are green and blue, bad guys are red". Sam says "no one has purple?" and George says "you could". To me this says Mace Windu's lightsabre is unique amongst lightsabres. All others are green and blue (for Jedi) and red (for Sith). In fact recently developed EU supports this, which makes a case of new EU contradicting old EU.


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Old 12-19-2003, 03:35 AM   #20
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Mastern - well, Vostok said exactly what i was going to.


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Old 12-19-2003, 12:52 PM   #21
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First of i want so say that i am not a total EUF. The movies are just as good as EU.

Second of all i am afraid i have to agree with Vostok that George Lucas did say that boba fett did die in the Sarlacc. I am proven wrong.

I am still not sure about the lightsaber colors. I think George just wanted to keep it simple with the lightsabers so its easier to keep it organized. Technically Jedi are allowed any color they want. (Note: I did not get this info from EU based sources)

I do agree that Luke did go look for holocrons looking for information on the Jedi Order. However the love rule wasn't created until EPII, and mara jade had married luke already be4 EPII came out. So technically it was the movie interfering with the EU.

1 more thing. Vostok i do hope that Star Wars wouldn't need EU to survive.

Just to clear some things up.
1. I am NOT a EUF or purist, i like both equally.
2. I only like EU because i want to know what happened after the movies. If i was a purist i would only focus on the movies, which would get old after time.
3. If u r a purist please feel free to post. I take back my want for no more purists posting. Plz post ur ideas.


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Old 12-19-2003, 11:37 PM   #22
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There you go thinking the movies will get old and tired. That's fine if that's what you believe, in that case you should indulge in EU which will hopefully keep the movies interesting for you. As for me, I love the movies so much I'll never get tired of them, so for me EU is a corrupting influence that taints the perfection of the movies.

You are technically right that Episode II is the movies interfering with EU, but this really emphasises my point: George Lucas doesn't consider the EU worthy of the Universe he created, so he contradicts it to set the story right.

You say you got lightsaber colours from a source other than EU. What is that exactly, considering it isn't in the movies?


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Old 12-21-2003, 12:27 AM   #23
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Exclamation

1st: BF did not die is sarlacc, he's too important.
2nd: Yes, in movie episode II the geonosians did have plans for the Death Star, but maybe (I looked this up and it is his real name) Bevel Lemilisk (I misselled his name and misspelled ((probably)) ), well, you know Imps... They always think they're entitled to something so *Bevel's thoughts* FINDER' KEEPERS, LOSER'S WEEPERS HAHAHAHAHA! MINE ALL MINE HAHAHAHAHAHA!
3rd: Leia got married and had kids, Luke married Mara Jade and they were both Jedi.


(see? I do make sense sometimes)
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Old 12-21-2003, 12:30 AM   #24
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Arrow

Oh and how do you think Jedi reproduce? They just magically appear? (sorry...frustrated...no offense)
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Old 12-21-2003, 02:31 AM   #25
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1. Boba Fett died. period. Jango died. period. Vader died.period. Palpatine died.period.

2. We'll get our answers in ep3 hopefully about the Death Star.

3. Even in EU, Leia was never truly a Jedi. As for Luke and Mara, although I like the Mara Jade character, I'm gonna have to say that this is totally untrue. If you go by the movies, we actually don,t have any idea of Luke having any offsprings with anyone. It's something that George Lucas did not create therefore cannot be considered a quite reliable argument/source.

4. Yes Anakin Skywalker did not magically appear. "There was no father". Huh...

And besides, this is a bad argument. Nothing proves that two Jedi having a baby will make that baby force sensitive. If your parents are good looking, you might not be. If you're very good looking, your parents can be ugly. That doesn't prove anything. Shmi Skywalker for example doesn't seem to be force sensitive at all. Think about Luke and Leia too. They were both weaker then Vader. Going through this kind of logic, the force power of Padmé(although small) should add up to the one of Anakin right? Well it isn't obviously the case.


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Old 12-21-2003, 06:24 AM   #26
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Bob -
1. Boba Fett died, George Lucas, the master of everything Star Wars, said so.
2. "I'll take the plans to my Master on Coruscant where they will be safe" - yeah, that really sounds like Sidious/Palpatine didnt know a thing...
3. That's all according to EU. As for where Jedi come from, as luke said, not everyone is force-sensative, its pretty much random. In fact, it is obvious that Jedi do NOT get married or get some lovin, becuase those sort of attachements can lead to the Jedi going to the dark side like Anakin.


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Old 12-24-2003, 01:39 AM   #27
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Here's another interesting tid bit for EUFs: recently Peter Mayhew (who plays Chewbacca) was asked what he thought of Chewie's death in the NJO series. Mayhew dismissed it, saying that only George Lucas' work is the real Star Wars. As you can imagine finding this out delighted me.


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Old 12-24-2003, 06:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Here's another interesting tid bit for EUFs: recently Peter Mayhew (who plays Chewbacca) was asked what he thought of Chewie's death in the NJO series. Mayhew dismissed it, saying that only George Lucas' work is the real Star Wars. As you can imagine finding this out delighted me.
Who wouldn't be angry that his/her character dies in a unofficial book about the movie? And, a lot of EUF's didn'y like the idea of Chewie dieing either. So that wasn't exactly i likeable part in Star Wars in general for all Star Wars fans. Even I don't like it, i hate it so much i want to burn the book.

Plz do continue Vostok.


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Old 12-24-2003, 07:04 PM   #29
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And another thing that i want to bring up in this Star Wars character death subject.

EU authors only write about SW characters dying(Chewie) or coming bac to life(Boba) because they think it will give the books high sellings. They don't care if it messes with the movies or makes SW fans angry. If they sell the books its all good for them. Half of them probably haven't seen the movies, just the characters in general. (I know this goes against EUF's, but hey, im not a EUF)


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Old 12-24-2003, 10:18 PM   #30
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Windu: (Somehow) "Ani" was a special case.
Everybody else+Windu: good point.
Everybody: I am not sure if I am an EU fan or purist. I like them both (again, somehow) probably because *sigh* I am a critic. (bum bum bum!)
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Old 12-24-2003, 10:24 PM   #31
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Isn't it weird how this idea of SWGB III spawned into talk of how Jedi turned to the Dark Side, who died and who didn't?
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Old 12-24-2003, 10:35 PM   #32
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Oh, and can we Please talk about A-wings and how COOL they are since they are both in EU and purism we can both enjoy and appreciate them since they were an important part of the destruction of the Death Star and the annihilation of half the Imp's Starfleet? *gasp of air*
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Old 12-25-2003, 10:00 AM   #33
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Bob - well, considering that no other Jedi in the films has a love interest, and Padme, a Senator and former Queen is under the impression that 'love was forbidden for a jedi', i think we can pretty much assume that jedi dont get married

As for A-wings, i disagree. I think the Jedi Starfighter is MUCH cooler than the A-wing.


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Old 12-26-2003, 10:56 PM   #34
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NO! The A-Wing is better!

Stop this EU vs. the Movies debate. I've just seen so many in my stay here...god...


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Old 12-27-2003, 04:36 AM   #35
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I read most of the apprintace siries and loved it but I don't really have any transportation to get more. And when I do I always forget

anyways, on topic, I think we should wait for SWGB2 before we talk about this
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Old 12-28-2003, 10:28 AM   #36
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My point about Chewie dying wasn't so much that his death was an outrage, but that Peter Mayhew, like me, considers EU to not really be Star Wars.

In fact character deaths aren't so bad, and are much more attractive that character resurrections. In the case of Chewie I wish it had happened sooner so he didn't have to be the Solo kids' nanny. One of the things that I used to hate about EU was that no-one ever died, it was like a bad sitcom where everything was back to normal at the end of the novel. There was one particular novel - either The Courtship of Princess Leia, which was the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read, or one of the Jedi Academy books, which many will know I have no love for - where Mon Mothma became very ill and was in danger of dying. I was reading the book thinking "finally some dramatic development" when at the end of the book Mon Mothma gets better. Not that I wish Mon Mothma dead, but it would have made a much better story if she had died.


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Old 12-28-2003, 12:45 PM   #37
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Vostok - that was the Jedi Academy trilogy.

I'm actually enjoying EU, im up to the 7th book of the 'X-wing' series, and have 'I, Jedi' and 'The Courtship of Princess Leia' ready to go when i have the other two books of the series.

My view on EU is that it's just fun - dont take it too seriously and its ok. As you may or may not know, im a big Star Trek fan. With the current series, Enterprise, i think that as a 'Star Trek' series, it is repulsive, but as a sci-fi show it's pretty good - this is the same sort of attitude i take with Star Wars EU.


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Old 12-28-2003, 08:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Vostok - that was the Jedi Academy trilogy.

I'm actually enjoying EU, im up to the 7th book of the 'X-wing' series, and have 'I, Jedi' and 'The Courtship of Princess Leia' ready to go when i have the other two books of the series.

My view on EU is that it's just fun - dont take it too seriously and its ok. As you may or may not know, im a big Star Trek fan. With the current series, Enterprise, i think that as a 'Star Trek' series, it is repulsive, but as a sci-fi show it's pretty good - this is the same sort of attitude i take with Star Wars EU.
I watch star trek, I like the originals, next generation, and voyager, they have some really great episodes. But to me deep space nine and enterprise were losers, and now that I think about it, it I just think of them as sci-fi shows.... their still repulsive
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Old 12-29-2003, 06:20 AM   #39
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Really? I loved DS9, it was tied with TNG as my favourite Star Trek show. Voyager and the Original series were alright, but Enterprise is shockingly bad.

I think the main reason that i liked DS9 was that it was a lot darker than any of the other series, dealing with conflict and death a lot more than the others did.

Speaking of, anyone here seen the 'Ki-Adi-Mundi droid control ship raid' deleted from Ep2 but viewable on Star Wars Hyperspace? I've heard that its pretty good, but havent been able to see it coz im not going to pay any money for what should be free to loyal Star Wars fans - which i consider to be an outrage but still...


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Old 12-29-2003, 06:32 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Really? I loved DS9, it was tied with TNG as my favourite Star Trek show. Voyager and the Original series were alright, but Enterprise is shockingly bad.

I think the main reason that i liked DS9 was that it was a lot darker than any of the other series, dealing with conflict and death a lot more than the others did.

Speaking of, anyone here seen the 'Ki-Adi-Mundi droid control ship raid' deleted from Ep2 but viewable on Star Wars Hyperspace? I've heard that its pretty good, but havent been able to see it coz im not going to pay any money for what should be free to loyal Star Wars fans - which i consider to be an outrage but still...
'cmon, it's just $20 for a whole year, it's worth it, believe me. I've forgot about the money by now
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