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Old 12-04-2003, 05:41 AM   #1
zERoCooL2479
 
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Jedi Academy Reloaded

Finally...

http://www.thejase.com/downloads/JAR_10.zip

grab it there for now.

The Linux and Windows Installer versions are being worked on as we speak and will be out this Sunday.

Take Care,
Mike


~cHoSeN oNe
Mod Developer
The Jedi Academy
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Old 12-04-2003, 06:31 AM   #2
FK | unnamed
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Mark this day on your calendars everyone, 12/4/03 is the day that just being able to connect to public servers and play without being put to sleep or being turned into a wombat because you pissed of some 9 year old with rcon, has now come to an end.

I personally don’t care this time around because base game play bores me to death, but I do feel sorry for a lot of you who just like to connect to servers and play the game.


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Old 12-04-2003, 07:37 AM   #3
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Unhappy

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Old 12-04-2003, 08:43 AM   #4
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Uh, guys. Chosen One stated that he got the picture and had removed all the abusable functions....unlike xmod2 or Omnimod.

EDIT: Before all the xmod2 groupies show up to complain, I honestly don't remember if xmod2 has abusive admin functions or not. I appaligize if it doesn't.


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Old 12-04-2003, 01:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorace
EDIT: Before all the xmod2 groupies show up to complain, I honestly don't remember if xmod2 has abusive admin functions or not. I appaligize if it doesn't.
Good decision.

So this had to happen on my birthday, eh? What better time to be festive.
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Old 12-04-2003, 01:23 PM   #6
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lol... happy B-day
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Old 12-04-2003, 04:00 PM   #7
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I read the readme for Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 and compared it to the readme for Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 for JK2.

While keeping the benign\useful features from JA Mod 1.4 (client IP logging, moving banlist out of g_banips, multiline MOTD, psay, /ignore so players can ignore chat from spammers/killtracker users/racists, etc.), cHoSeN oNe

REMOVED the following commands that were in JA Mod 1.4 from Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0:

removed slap
removed punish
removed explode
removed empower
removed terminator
removed bunny
removed protect

and to be fair, even xMod 1.2.0 had commands like:

x_ckill <client> Will kill a client with a lightning effect
x_cslap <client> (<vel1> <vel2> <vel3> <damage>) Will smack a client with option damage and direction
x_cprotect <client> Will protect a client like they just spawned in
x_csleep <client> Will put the client to sleep or wake them up
x_ctrip <client> Will knock a client down like they were kicked
x_cfreeze <client> Will freeze client or unfreeze them

so there is less potential for player abuse with Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 then there was with either Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 or xMod 1.2.0 for JK2, and far less than the new OmniAdminMod 1.1, which retains "features" like:

- amslap <clientnumber> - slaps <clientnumber> across the room
- amslay <clientnumber> - kills <clientnumber> exploding them

or DCMoD which will have:

Improved explode, all body parts flinging off
Silence players, Sleep players, freeze players
Toggle peoples saber on and off
bantoggle (when set to a player it cant ignite/turn off saber)
/amrob , robs all weapons from a person
/amget (teleport a player to you)
/amtakemeto (teleport to a player)
empowerment, terminator (999 ammo, all weps) banforce...
/amfly and /amland, allows logged in admins to fly around the map as if in spectator mode (invisible)


Isn't better, if admin mods are going to be used (as we know they will be), that Jedi Academy Reloaded is there to compete with abuse-prone mods like DCMoD and OmniAdminMod?

I applaud cHoSeN oNe for removing those abuse-prone commands. He certainly didn't have to. Let's give the guy some credit for moving in the right direction. It takes a big person to realize and admit they made a mistake, and take corrective action.

Thank you cHoSeN oNe.


Last edited by Amidala from Chop Shop; 12-06-2003 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 12-04-2003, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I read the readme for Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 and compared it to the readme for Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 for JK2.

While keeping the benign\useful features from JA Mod 1.4 (client IP logging, moving banlist out of g_banips, multiline MOTD, psay, /ignore so players can ignore chat from spammers/killtracker users/racists, etc.), cHoSeN oNe

REMOVED the following commands that were in JA Mod 1.4 from Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0:

removed slap
removed empower
removed terminator
removed bunny
removed punish
removed protect

and to be fair, even xMod 1.2.0 had commands like:

x_ckill <client> Will kill a client with a lightning effect
x_cslap <client> (<vel1> <vel2> <vel3> <damage>) Will smack a client with option damage and direction
x_cprotect <client> Will protect a client like they just spawned in
x_csleep <client> Will put the client to sleep or wake them up
x_ctrip <client> Will knock a client down like they were kicked
x_cfreeze <client> Will freeze client or unfreeze them

so there is less potential for player abuse with Jedi Academy Reloaded 1.0 then there was with either Jedi Academy Mod 1.4 or xMod 1.2.0 for JK2, and far less than the new OmniAdminMod 1.1, which retains "features" like:

- amslap <clientnumber> - slaps <clientnumber> across the room
- amslay <clientnumber> - kills <clientnumber> exploding them

Isn't better, if admin mods are going to be used (as we know they will be), that Jedi Academy Reloaded is there to compete with abuse-prone mods like OmniAdminMod?

I applaud cHoSeN oNe for removing those abuse-prone commands. He certainly didn't have to. Let's give the guy some credit for moving in the right direction. It takes a big person to realize and admit they made a mistake, and take corrective action.

Thank you cHoSeN oNe.
well cs has slay, freeze, slap and other commands of the like but they aren't abused because everyone focuses on playing the game. just like ctf servers, where xmod was, people focused on playing cuase if they stopped and chattered a bit their team would likely lose.

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Old 12-04-2003, 07:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop

or DCMoD which will have:
Nope, at least not in a public version may that come


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Old 12-04-2003, 11:51 PM   #10
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it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.


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Old 12-05-2003, 12:02 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.
LMAO, your tottaly wrong. maybe thats what you will do if your an admin, but WHATS THE POINT OF RUNNING A SERVER????
to get admin powers!!
All admin powers will be abused, wheather you will or not, is NOT the problem!
No mod is SO cool that a 9 year old admin wont abuse powers. And yes 9 year old kids do have mods like xmod on there servers.


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Old 12-05-2003, 12:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpecialForces
LMAO, your tottaly wrong. maybe thats what you will do if your an admin, but WHATS THE POINT OF RUNNING A SERVER????
to get admin powers!!
All admin powers will be abused, wheather you will or not, is NOT the problem!
No mod is SO cool that a 9 year old admin wont abuse powers. And yes 9 year old kids do have mods like xmod on there servers.



/to the rest of you reading this

This is the part where a person normally would say "I told you so".


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Old 12-05-2003, 12:19 AM   #13
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lol, but its true.....

im not 9 and im not an admin, and dont want to be.
I used to though but I NEVER kicked, slaped, banned ect. anyone


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"<FP> Fallen Power"
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:25 AM   #14
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Who decided to let SpecialOlympics out of the bag again?
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:33 AM   #15
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People will DL it for the emotes. (if it has any, idk if it does) but anyways... im happy he took out all of those features that played a part in "messing up" JKII. I know its not just his mod, but its used on about 75% of the servers out there (im guessing) i know its a lot.
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Old 12-05-2003, 12:38 AM   #16
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Actually, since all those commands have been taken out of the mod itself, it is great for all purposes. Since I know all the commands due to me being an admin, what is left to abuse isn't much at all. Sleep is pretty much it. I can be used in bad manners but I don't know if anyone would get a kick out of sleeping people because sleeping makes them invincible so it is not like you can sleep kill. Also, do you really think it would be fun just to sleep someone then wake then and sleep. It just gets boring so with less options to use, the less likely it will be abused (note the rhyme). Anyway I applaud Chosen for his mod and I hope it goes well.

I know most you other people who dislike this mod are people who probably are very stuck in their ways and what I said above will have no affect and you will continue to banter. But this is ok. But it was the most used mod in the JKO community and from the servers that I played on that used it, it worked very nicely. The majority of people doesn't make it right, but also the majority of people doesn't make it wrong.

Since Rcon is very limiting, I believe this is the best choice admins.


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Old 12-05-2003, 01:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpecialForces
LMAO, your tottaly wrong. maybe thats what you will do if your an admin, but WHATS THE POINT OF RUNNING A SERVER????
to get admin powers!!
No...you are the one that is totally wrong.

I as well as many others, especially the FK | run servers so other people who play the game seriousely have a place to do so. It has nothing at all to do with admin's having "emote powers".

Your as lost and clueless as Rosh Penin.

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Old 12-05-2003, 02:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.
Actually, the functions in a mod are what attracts the people using them. If xmod did indeed have that many admin powers, the "honor newbies" will chose it over all else.

However, I do see the potential of abusive admins overrunning this game
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Old 12-05-2003, 02:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.
I agree with your sentiments, though I sincerely wish you (And pretty much everyone in this board) would phrase them in a more friendly manner...

The only things I was looking for in a jedi academy server mod are multi duels, a true ingame motd and moving the banlist out of g_banips. Now hopefully xmod will provide that in the near future and I'll be able to use it in my server, otherwise I'll have to install this one and have my server unfairly generalized as is standard around these parts.

Oh well...
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Old 12-05-2003, 02:19 AM   #20
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This is what I've been thinking lately (and isn't it obvious?):


Admin Mods are created and promoted by people who subscribe to the "Honor Dueling" model of JA/JK2 online play.


Now that's not to say that an admin mod can't have other uses (as Amidala points out), such as keeping a running tally of people that have been banned, or using black names or hilt/skins and stuff that's packed into a mod like this.


But the main point of the mod seems to be to have an Admin with "godlike" powers to "deal out rewards and punishments" to players in a way to enforce an "honor code" (whatever that code of honor is).

The gamemode itself is setup to encourage "honorable dueling" that is, a game type that is in all ways identical to "Duel" except that instead of being in spectator mode, the other players are wandering around with their avatars in the gaming world.


They're supposed to either be dueling, or standing around "role playing".... talking to each other, using emotes to "pretend" and such like that. Though the emotes seem to be intended to "negotiate" with the admin (they're supposed to use the "beg" command to apologize after the scolding the admin gives them with the slap and other punishments) and to "role play" during a duel.


Since this style of play is totally alien to the original intents of the Raven developers, people who like to play the base game modes (CTF, FFA, Duel, Siege) such as myself have no use for an admin mod and in fact find them annoying, especially in their abuse (ie: Admins being jerks, using commands to cheat, or take out their petty frustrations on players who can't do anything to defend themselves). The "honor" system to me is pointless.

The game already has all the tools necessary in order to have two players saber dueling one on one with no interferance and a level playing field. Admins already have the power to (more or less) permanently remove players they don't like from the game.

*Muses*

The only real benefit I can see in an admin mod is the ability for more than one group of people to duel at once, thus (theoretically) eliminating the "line waiting boredom" syndrome prevelant in popular Dueling servers.

However, this option alone could be used apart from all the other "stuff" like the slapping and sleeping and emoting and whatnot. It's too bad somebody doesn't just release a stand alone "multiple duels allowed in FFA" mod, then people wouldn't be forced (or tempted) to use all this other nonesense.


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:22 AM   #21
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And theoretically XMod would cater to competative players.

However, I haven't (yet, and I know the mod is far from finished) seen any real evidence that this would be so for Xmod.

The presence of a (partially functional) flip kick would theoretically lead to more combo possibilities and options for sabers only ctf (as we've been lectured about numerous times already).

But somebody could just as easily play Xmod with this option turned off could they not? So somebody could download and use xmod simply because they don't like Pull+Throw.

The "goal" of Xmod2 seems to be to restore in the minds of former JK2 "elite players" the style of gameplay they liked in the previous game as opposed to JA. Good luck to them and I hope they are successful in their quest.

Though, conversely, somebody (like Amidala) could theoretically use an Admin mod just for one or two features it offers rather than as a way to enforce "honorable dueling" in a FFA setting.


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:32 AM   #22
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I'm sorry if I come across abusive but these mods are just pure garbage on so many levels and it really pisses me off to no end that these mod makers keep making these types of mods when they know full well the damage they cause to the overall community but turn a blind eye.



Look let's ignore all the stupid commands like "sleep" for a second and focus on the biggest problem with these mods:

Point and click banning.

The whole "rcon is too confusing/limiting" argument is just plain absurd.


/rcon status

(gives you the client IP and client #)

/rcon addip <IP address here>


/rcon clientkick <# here>



That's all it takes to permanently ban a client in a quake 3 engine game.

How hard was that?

If you have admins on a server that are too damn stupid/lazy to remember/enter those 3 simple commands, then you have people who are not qualified to be running a server... running your server.


The thing is most server owners would NEVER give full rcon to a 9 year old kid.

Why?

Because the chances are he would screw things up all to hell.


Yet we give this immature, temperamental child the ability to point and click ban every person who enters the server at his will?

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees just how ass-backwards of a mentality that is.

And that's exactly what happened on public servers that ran this mod in Outcast and it is what will happen again.

Every time some brat does not get his way, you can expect a /kickban.

And the sad part is, much of the time the server owners have no clue what all the "sub admins" or whatever they are called, do to people.

Now on to the sleep command.

Why is this needed?

Other than to give 9 year old brats a means to stand over helpless players, and call them "faggots lamers" before they ban them...


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
it's not just the functions in the mods.... it's the people who will be using them.

Who is going to use =X= mod?

Competition players and serious players.

How often do you think that people will stop in the middle of a league match to /msleep a player on the opposing team because some player had a saber down?

You have to look at things in perspective, and the bottom line is =X= mod could have 7868768768768686876876 admin punishment commands, but the people who will run that mod on their servers are not exactly the types of players who bitch, piss and moan about "lamers".


Now look at who is going to run this Academy mod:

Honor newbie’s and emote junkies.

Mark my word; give these retards the ability to "point and click ban" and Jedi Academy is going to end up just like Outcast did after all these mods landed in our laps back then.

Like I said, I feel real sorry for you base JA players and all the bull**** you are going to have to put up with due to this mod.
Maybe if you read the Readme or knew 1 thing about this mod for JK:JA, you would know that I have:

a) Not added any emotes other than unlocking the ones Raven gave us for ffa.
b) Got rid of admin empower, terminator, punish, protect, slap, bunny.
c) There are no added abusable commands.

Bottom line, this mod is safe and not destructive like the predecessors. The only person you should be ranting and raving about is the person that has not seen through this and has decided to release abusive crap to the community again. Sorry, but you really need to point the finger elsewhere this time!


PS: In case you didnt know, you can only ban a certain amount of ip's before flushing the server to make room. The cVar was replaced by an external file (which doesnt reset when you restart the server) called banIP.dat. The reason secondary admins were made is cause we dont want people to have the ability to shut the server down or nerf cvars. Giving them enough abilities to do what is right on the server in case someone is being a complete d-head.


~cHoSeN oNe
Mod Developer
The Jedi Academy
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Old 12-05-2003, 02:42 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
And theoretically XMod would cater to competative players.

However, I haven't (yet, and I know the mod is far from finished) seen any real evidence that this would be so for Xmod.

The presence of a (partially functional) flip kick would theoretically lead to more combo possibilities and options for sabers only ctf (as we've been lectured about numerous times already).

But somebody could just as easily play Xmod with this option turned off could they not? So somebody could download and use xmod simply because they don't like Pull+Throw.

The "goal" of Xmod2 seems to be to restore in the minds of former JK2 "elite players" the style of gameplay they liked in the previous game as opposed to JA. Good luck to them and I hope they are successful in their quest.

Though, conversely, somebody (like Amidala) could theoretically use an Admin mod just for one or two features it offers rather than as a way to enforce "honorable dueling" in a FFA setting.
Yes, =X= mod could be abused.

Hell, I'll shoot totally straight with you on this, I personally don't like the way the official =X= server is run to be 100% honest.

I think there are some people there with admin that are quite immature and childish and are what I would call "kick happy" admins.

And I do think a lot of the admin things that were put in =X= mod should not be there.

But that said, let's be frank, what are the chances of you seeing people put to sleep on an =X= server and then insulted as opposed to that situation happening on an Academy reloaded server?


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
The whole "rcon is too confusing/limiting" argument is just plain absurd.

...

Now on to the sleep command.

Why is this needed?
If you were an admin of an "FFA duel server" you'd understand. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a lamer or n00b's attention with simple chat commands. Often people don't even read chat so they have no idea that an admin is speaking to them. Putting a person to sleep gives the admin the time to explain the rules to the person and make sure that there is no confusion. I can assure you that at JK3Files we never stand over a sleeping person and scream how much of a f***ing lamer n00b they are.

And I'm not even allowed to ban people because if the ban file gets too big... guess what? The server crashes!
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Old 12-05-2003, 02:51 AM   #26
FK | unnamed
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Quote:
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Maybe if you read the Readme or knew 1 thing about this mod for JK:JA, you would know that I have:

a) Not added any emotes other than unlocking the ones Raven gave us for ffa.
b) Got rid of admin empower, terminator, punish, protect, slap, bunny.
c) There are no added abusable commands.

Bottom line, this mod is safe and not destructive like the predecessors. The only person you should be ranting and raving about is the person that has not seen through this and has decided to release abusive crap to the community again. Sorry, but you really need to point the finger elsewhere this time!


PS: In case you didnt know, you can only ban a certain amount of ip's before flushing the server to make room. The cVar was replaced by an external file (which doesnt reset when you restart the server) called banIP.dat. The reason secondary admins were made is cause we dont want people to have the ability to shut the server down or nerf cvars. Giving them enough abilities to do what is right on the server in case someone is being a complete d-head.
Why is sleep needed?

Just answer me that.

Are you going to sit here with a straight face and tell me people won't abuse the hell out of that this time either?

Are you going to tell me in JO, childish admins did not get off on standing over sleeping players while insulting them with every derogatory four letter word/racial slur in the book?

Do you not grasp that was the pretty much sole function that command was used for on public servers?

Humiliating and degrading players is your idea of bringing the community together?

Do you really think that won't happen this time around?


Cut the PR bull**** man, no one over the age of 12 is buying it.


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:58 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by zERoCooL2479
Maybe if you read the Readme or knew 1 thing about this mod for JK:JA, you would know that I have:

a) Not added any emotes other than unlocking the ones Raven gave us for ffa.
b) Got rid of admin empower, terminator, punish, protect, slap, bunny.
c) There are no added abusable commands.

Bottom line, this mod is safe and not destructive like the predecessors. The only person you should be ranting and raving about is the person that has not seen through this and has decided to release abusive crap to the community again. Sorry, but you really need to point the finger elsewhere this time!


PS: In case you didnt know, you can only ban a certain amount of ip's before flushing the server to make room. The cVar was replaced by an external file (which doesnt reset when you restart the server) called banIP.dat. The reason secondary admins were made is cause we dont want people to have the ability to shut the server down or nerf cvars. Giving them enough abilities to do what is right on the server in case someone is being a complete d-head.
Thanks a lot for this, Chosen. No abusive admin commands is always good.

I know the versions of JA mod you've released for JK2 weren't meant to do what it did to pubs but most of the time, the servers that ran your mod had idiotic 12 year old admins who thought they really had some power and were tough ****.

We all know though that some jerkoff newbie who feels that admin mods with these abusive commands were fun will make his own admin mod and it will circulate through the JA community within a week and will once again make pubbing hell to many players. I can only hope this doesn't happen though.


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
No...you are the one that is totally wrong.

I as well as many others, especially the FK | run servers so other people who play the game seriousely have a place to do so. It has nothing at all to do with admin's having "emote powers".

Your as lost and clueless as Rosh Penin.
hehehehehehe,
I didnt mean that.
I meant crazy 9 y. olds will run servers for power. not everyone runs it like chopshop or fk.
And allot of servers are made because of the God like powers.
I didnt mean fk do that......


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Old 12-05-2003, 03:03 AM   #29
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Chances are, the abusive admins will get the cheapo abuse mods that have slay and slap. Jedi Academy Reloaded probably will get a certain amount of abuse leaked out of it, but thank god that cHoSeN oNe is not releasing the source code.

But you need to realize that not ALL admins will be abusive. There are admins who are just there to have fun like decent people, and enforce their server rules appropriatly <sp?>. I can promise you that.
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Old 12-05-2003, 03:21 AM   #30
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sure, agreed


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Old 12-05-2003, 04:22 AM   #31
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I'd just like to add my opinion here real quick. Most of you have NO clue who I am, so you probably won't care about my explanation, but... I run and co-founded the Jedi Academy website (www.thejediacademy.net) that gives JAMod its name. Chosen, a high ranking member of the school, made the mod originally to allow us to control our classes and our private servers.

We have very little toleration for n00b players, idiots, immature brats, etc, and so Chosen added in the admin commands like sleep and slap to allow us to discipline students who were out of line during a class.

Now, he had NO idea what kind of hell would break loose when he first created it, but now that JAMod is out for JK:JA and all that is left is sleep, i agree with Chosen's decision. As for leaving sleep, since the primary objective of this mod is to help us run classes and such, sleep is a great tool to stop an unruly student from disrupting a class without resorting to kicking. It is an attempt to get the unruly student/player to see the error of his/her ways and to calm down.

I also think this could be a useful command for admins of public servers... kind of like a "timeout in the corner" like in elementary school. Whether it is actually used that way, there's no way to tell. That's up to the maturity of the admin.

I can't speak for Chosen on this, but IMO the JAMod is designed for our academy first, and the fact that it's become as popular as it is is really just an extra bonus. The original idea was for Chosen to take the old Vulcanus mod and customize it for our purposes. I don't think he ever thought of the long-range ramifications should his mod unexpectedly become popular. But now it is, and I feel with this new version Chosen has taken out most of the problems people have and left in the stuff that is incredibly useful. But of course I'm biased, feel free to disagree at will.


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Old 12-05-2003, 04:45 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by FK | unnamed
Why is sleep needed?

Just answer me that.

Are you going to sit here with a straight face and tell me people won't abuse the hell out of that this time either?

Are you going to tell me in JO, childish admins did not get off on standing over sleeping players while insulting them with every derogatory four letter word/racial slur in the book?

Do you not grasp that was the pretty much sole function that command was used for on public servers?

Humiliating and degrading players is your idea of bringing the community together?

Do you really think that won't happen this time around?


Cut the PR bull**** man, no one over the age of 12 is buying it.
I knew you were going to bring that up and although doob makes a good point. I'll give ya another one.

Sleep does a few things.
1) paralyzes the client so you can talk some sense in the brat if he/she tends to interfere with what you are doing.

2) I set the godmode flag on sleeping clients so those that wish to lame them, cannot harm them...so it doesnt affect any abuse that way.

3) I really dont think it humiliates them at all. Its just another step before kickbanning them off the server, cause in all do respect, I dont like kicking anyone off of servers unless it is REALLY necessery.


So my answer is YES, FK | unnamed, I do think it will be different this time around. I hope people don't download those other mods that are attempting to repeat my past. The game is still kinda new and people are still newbies so lets keep a little optimizm.


~cHoSeN oNe
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The Jedi Academy
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Old 12-05-2003, 08:20 AM   #33
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right...


Look guy, I have noting against you, hell I don't even know you.

My problem lies in the damage these mods cause to the community so my gripe is not specifically with you.

But I have to wonder how on earth you could honestly believe that "sleep" would not be abused.

That was the single most abused command in any of these mods.

And being that the Academy mod was not the first admin mod for Outcast, you had to have noticed some of the absurd crap that was going in in those Vulcan's servers.

So unless you spent your entire duration of Outcast game play on some isolated server out in the boonies, I'm only left with the conclusion that you did indeed know these commands were being abused and were causing a hell of a lot of grief for the players just trying to have a good time, and you chose to ignore it.

I mean really man, myself and many others posted countless demos on these very forums showing just how childish and vulgar people could be when they had admin on a server running your mod.

And 99% of the time it was not the bunny or empower commands that were abused, (hell you at least could put up a fight when those were used) it was that stupid sleep command.

The server name may change but the scene is always the same:

5 /model "reborn/boss" players standing over some sleeping guy calling him a faggot and a noob and a lamer and telling him his mother is a whore and he's gay and... you get the point.

Doubt this happens?

How many dozens of demos would you like me to send you of it being done?

The thing is guy; don't look at this from the perspective of a player like myself or yourself who has been around for a while.

Look at it through the eyes of that kid who just got the game for his birthday and is playing online for the first time.

He connects to 5 separate servers running your mod and on all 5 he's pinned to the floor and rendered immobile because he just wanted to play this cool new star wars game, swing his saber around and zap some people with lightning.

Now first off, he's probably confused as hell.
Most games action games where killing people is the way to score points, don’t punish you for using weapons on other players so he's probably getting really frustrated by the third server he connects to and experiences punishment for just trying to play.


Now factor in the fact that on 4 out of 5 of those servers, while he was pinned to the ground he had a pack of people standing over him calling him every derogatory slur you could imagine.

Would you really want to keep playing a game in that kind of community?


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Old 12-05-2003, 01:13 PM   #34
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Thumbs up

Btw, I forgot to say Kudos to Chosen One for Removing the Abusive Commands!


Hopefully other admin mod authors will follow suite! (and keep the source code private for crying out loud!).

Agreed with the sentiment of Unnamed and Amidala on this subject...


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Old 12-05-2003, 02:56 PM   #35
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Well FK | unnamed, it would appear that you managed to play on all the "worst" servers in JO for admin abuse and avoided all the good ones, this is the only way you would have come by such a "dismal" view of the JK community at large.

Kurgan, we can all see you are an intelligent man but judge your replies to other threads including this one and most would come to the conclusion that you don't play the JK games that much and your mistakes in certain threads has show this, therefore all though your arguments carry weight at first its soon becomes apparent that it is all second hand points of view.

Here are some "facts" from my extensive experience with JO and the Admin mod created by ChoosenOne here.

On average 8 out of 10 servers that I personally played on regularly used JA Admin mod. On average 7 out of 8 ran the mod without abuse.

The majority of dedicated server owners are adults, manly because most parents would not pay 30-50 dollars a month for their Childs game. Therefore most servers are run by mature people who have no interest in "power" over other gamers and just wish to have the rules followed, as is their right as the bill payer. Now that’s a fact I know through my own experience with other various server owners/various clans.

I myself owned a dedicated server, all rules were in the MOTD as with most dedicated servers. I also used chat binds to make sure no one was under any confusion about the rules of the server.

In the event of a player joining that didn't follow the rules these were the standard actions in this order providing the player didn't stop breaking the rules.

1) Verbal warning (public chat) usually accompanied with a re-show of the MOTD.
2) Sleep/Slap, with a second explanation of the rules.
3) Kicked with reason attached.
4) Kick Banned.

This was the standard on most servers I played on in JO, fact. If not exactly like this is was something very similar. Warnings then kicked, a simple yet fair system.

Now ChoosenOne here has gone out of his way to provide the same fair system and has removed the commands admins just don't need, like ampunish and empower. For this he should be commended not slated.
=X= Mod for example has all the "abusive" commands any 9 year old wannabie admin could ask for, OmNi mod the same.
ChoosenOnes mod on the other hand is made strictly to help server owners/admins enforce rules easily.

Now is it open to abuse?....off course it is but for that matter so is rcon.

If I purchase a dedicated server again I want to know that I can deal with players that won't follow my rules. This is my right as the server owner. If there is a mod out there that works better than Rcon then that’s better for a server owner and the regulars that play there and follow the rules.

Just because a system is open to abuse does not mean it is bad and must by slated and picked apart by so called "competitive" players.

RL example,
The police carry night sticks and mace, should we campaign to have all their weapons removed because one or two slap happy cops maybe a bit over zealous with said weapons?

If you come across a server with abusive admins you just leave and never go back, this is your only effective course of action.
The argument that new players will be "put off" the game by said abuse is ridiculous, when I was a new player in JO I did as the others were doing, if I joined a server were everyone was going crazy and killing indiscriminately that is how I played, if I joined a server were everyone was dueling or acting "civilized" then I acted accordingly.
Following this simple rule I remained un-banned from any server and only managed to get myself kicked once.

Now this may make me look a little sad but I played JO to death, every day for about 8 months and on hundreds of servers. This proves to me that if you follow the rules of the server you don't get admin abused. Fact, through personal experience.

Now there is a good few servers out there that will have abusive admins, off course there will be (manly home servers, owned by kids) but that is a minority, the majority of server owners are adults with good sense.
Home servers and the small few dedicated servers run by Children will not run JA mod and are more likely to go for =X= mod or OmNi mod because they provide a much better selection of “abusive” commands for admins.

This is all fact from my point of view and with my experience I think it is safe to say that I am right or damn close.
Now no doubt people will quote me and try to “pick apart” my point of view but the fact remains that I know this to be true, anyone with the experience I have in JO would know this to be true. I expect JA to be much the same.

Argue if you must but at the end of the day if most dedicated server owners choose admin mods then you are all going to have to learn how to follow rules or play on other servers, if it turns out that ALL servers end up running admin mods then that’s all there is to it. Follow server rules or do not play, simple really, like it or not.

The only option left to anyone who doesn’t like it is to purchase a server of your own and run it how you see fit.

Finally I will not be drawn into a “flame war” with anyone here. I post this once and only once and have no wish to argue semantics. The main reason I did it is because a lot of forum members here have either got so jaded by reading here or have become so set in the own style of game play that they can’t see the wood for the trees.

My 2 cents,


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Old 12-05-2003, 03:48 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coraith
Well FK | unnamed, it would appear that you managed to play on all the "worst" servers in JO for admin abuse and avoided all the good ones, this is the only way you would have come by such a "dismal" view of the JK community at large.

Kurgan, we can all see you are an intelligent man but judge your replies to other threads including this one and most would come to the conclusion that you don't play the JK games that much and your mistakes in certain threads has show this, therefore all though your arguments carry weight at first its soon becomes apparent that it is all second hand points of view.

Here are some "facts" from my extensive experience with JO and the Admin mod created by ChoosenOne here.

On average 8 out of 10 servers that I personally played on regularly used JA Admin mod. On average 7 out of 8 ran the mod without abuse.

The majority of dedicated server owners are adults, manly because most parents would not pay 30-50 dollars a month for their Childs game. Therefore most servers are run by mature people who have no interest in "power" over other gamers and just wish to have the rules followed, as is their right as the bill payer. Now that’s a fact I know through my own experience with other various server owners/various clans.

I myself owned a dedicated server, all rules were in the MOTD as with most dedicated servers. I also used chat binds to make sure no one was under any confusion about the rules of the server.

In the event of a player joining that didn't follow the rules these were the standard actions in this order providing the player didn't stop breaking the rules.

1) Verbal warning (public chat) usually accompanied with a re-show of the MOTD.
2) Sleep/Slap, with a second explanation of the rules.
3) Kicked with reason attached.
4) Kick Banned.

This was the standard on most servers I played on in JO, fact. If not exactly like this is was something very similar. Warnings then kicked, a simple yet fair system.

Now ChoosenOne here has gone out of his way to provide the same fair system and has removed the commands admins just don't need, like ampunish and empower. For this he should be commended not slated.
=X= Mod for example has all the "abusive" commands any 9 year old wannabie admin could ask for, OmNi mod the same.
ChoosenOnes mod on the other hand is made strictly to help server owners/admins enforce rules easily.

Now is it open to abuse?....off course it is but for that matter so is rcon.

If I purchase a dedicated server again I want to know that I can deal with players that won't follow my rules. This is my right as the server owner. If there is a mod out there that works better than Rcon then that’s better for a server owner and the regulars that play there and follow the rules.

Just because a system is open to abuse does not mean it is bad and must by slated and picked apart by so called "competitive" players.

RL example,
The police carry night sticks and mace, should we campaign to have all their weapons removed because one or two slap happy cops maybe a bit over zealous with said weapons?

If you come across a server with abusive admins you just leave and never go back, this is your only effective course of action.
The argument that new players will be "put off" the game by said abuse is ridiculous, when I was a new player in JO I did as the others were doing, if I joined a server were everyone was going crazy and killing indiscriminately that is how I played, if I joined a server were everyone was dueling or acting "civilized" then I acted accordingly.
Following this simple rule I remained un-banned from any server and only managed to get myself kicked once.

Now this may make me look a little sad but I played JO to death, every day for about 8 months and on hundreds of servers. This proves to me that if you follow the rules of the server you don't get admin abused. Fact, through personal experience.

Now there is a good few servers out there that will have abusive admins, off course there will be (manly home servers, owned by kids) but that is a minority, the majority of server owners are adults with good sense.
Home servers and the small few dedicated servers run by Children will not run JA mod and are more likely to go for =X= mod or OmNi mod because they provide a much better selection of “abusive” commands for admins.

This is all fact from my point of view and with my experience I think it is safe to say that I am right or damn close.
Now no doubt people will quote me and try to “pick apart” my point of view but the fact remains that I know this to be true, anyone with the experience I have in JO would know this to be true. I expect JA to be much the same.

Argue if you must but at the end of the day if most dedicated server owners choose admin mods then you are all going to have to learn how to follow rules or play on other servers, if it turns out that ALL servers end up running admin mods then that’s all there is to it. Follow server rules or do not play, simple really, like it or not.

The only option left to anyone who doesn’t like it is to purchase a server of your own and run it how you see fit.

Finally I will not be drawn into a “flame war” with anyone here. I post this once and only once and have no wish to argue semantics. The main reason I did it is because a lot of forum members here have either got so jaded by reading here or have become so set in the own style of game play that they can’t see the wood for the trees.

My 2 cents,
considering that each one of us has been banned from servers THOUSANDS of times, no its not isolated. it was present on 99% of the servers out there (minus those of us who played ff/so we played on our own servers and were too busy trying to win.

as for your experience i bet 100 rupees that you bow before duels and whine about chatkills.

you know of Marker0077? he got attacked while he was bowing and he turned into a 5 year old that happens to hear one of his parents using a bad word and started cussing out the guy and bitching to everyone on the server.

xmod's admin functions were always a non-issue. only competitive clans used it, and they never used anything other than the kick, ban, and team features.

hell any admin that stopped to do **** like that would be bitched at for not doing his job (what he was supposed to do like escort a capper, whatever) and would get right back to it, and in the future hardly ever do anything with them.

that said i don't think hex should have those commands, but it is up to him and it will have to be a necessary evil on our servers until my team puts our mod out (if we decide to do it). and as for those abusive admins that would use xmod? we would kick-whore their asses to death

and just a last thing. chosen why don't you have that mod for your academy where it, i assume, is used properly, and release a mod to the public without ANY of those commands, including sleep.

if any of our clans ever had "unruly players" then we would usually beat the **** out of them till they listened, and if not continue doing so or booting them. usually someone getting their ass kicked (legitly not admin ****) over and over tends to calm people down and more willing to listen as they see they aren't "top dawg" or anything.

but hell isn't it so much more fun to stand over them when they have been slept and start questioning their sexuality and that of their lineage and the sexual practices of their little sister?


Last edited by Rumor; 12-05-2003 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 12-05-2003, 04:05 PM   #37
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a lamer or n00b's attention
And there you lost me...
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Old 12-05-2003, 04:14 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rumor
considering that each one of us has been banned from servers THOUSANDS of times, no its not isolated. it was present on 99% of the servers out there (minus those of us who played ff/so we played on our own servers and were too busy trying to win.

as for your experience i bet 100 rupees that you bow before duels and whine about chatkills.

you know of Marker0077? he got attacked while he was bowing and he turned into a 5 year old that happens to hear one of his parents using a bad word and started cussing out the guy and bitching to everyone on the server.

xmod's admin functions were always a non-issue. only competitive clans used it, and they never used anything other than the kick, ban, and team features.

hell any admin that stopped to do **** like that would be bitched at for not doing his job (what he was supposed to do like escort a capper, whatever) and would get right back to it, and in the future hardly ever do anything with them.

that said i don't think hex should have those commands, but it is up to him and it will have to be a necessary evil on our servers until my team puts our mod out (if we decide to do it). and as for those abusive admins that would use xmod? we would kick-whore their asses to death

and just a last thing. chosen why don't you have that mod for your academy where it, i assume, is used properly, and release a mod to the public without ANY of those commands, including sleep.

if any of our clans ever had "unruly players" then we would usually beat the **** out of them till they listened, and if not continue doing so or booting them. usually someone getting their ass kicked (legitly not admin ****) over and over tends to calm people down and more willing to listen as they see they aren't "top dawg" or anything.

but hell isn't it so much more fun to stand over them when they have been slept and start questioning their sexuality and that of their lineage and the sexual practices of their little sister?

656 posts, and you still quoted his whole dam post straight after his post????????


atx250

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Old 12-05-2003, 04:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
n00b's attention
whoa you lost me there

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Old 12-05-2003, 04:17 PM   #40
Rumor
caffeine has go power!
 
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Retired
Posts: 1,154
Quote:
Originally posted by atx250
656 posts, and you still quoted his whole dam post straight after his post????????


atx250

Ps
Yes i see the irony.
why wouldn't i?

i am not in the mood to chop it up into little quotes and i don't have the time (gotta get to school)

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