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Old 01-14-2004, 01:26 AM   #1
Darth Windu
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Conquer the Galaxy - SWGB2

Hi everyone. After having received Rise of Nations for xmas, i have found a lot of good things about the game - which in itself is excellent.

One of the features which i think would be very useful for a Star Wars RTS is the 'Conquer the World' feature, which would obviously be transformed into 'Conquer the Galaxy'. My question is though, what would be the homeworlds for some of the civs?

In my template, i have the-
- Confederacy of Independant Systems (Seperatists)
- Galactic Empire
- Galactic Republic
- Hutt Cartel
- Rebel Alliance
- Naboo Coalition
- Trade Federation
- Wookiees

Now, for some it's easy. The Wookiee homeworld is Kashyyk (or similar), the Coalition's homeworld is Naboo, the Hutt hoemworld is Tatooine.

The question i would like some help with is what would be the homeworlds for the-
- Empire?
- Republic?
- Confederacy?
- Trade Federation?

Although Coruscant would be a good choice for the first two, who actually gets it? Any help here would be appreciated.


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Old 01-14-2004, 02:30 AM   #2
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Well they'd have to both have Coruscant. Since the Republic becomes the Empire you can't really give them separate planets and make it sensible. But if it absolutely must be done, perhaps Kamino for the Republic.

So:

Confederacy: Geonosis
Empire: Coruscant
Republic: Coruscant or Kamino
Hutt Cartel: Nal Hutta or Tatooine
Rebel Alliance: Yavin 4
Naboo: Naboo
Trade Federation: Neimoidia
Wookiees: Kashyyyk


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Old 01-14-2004, 02:50 PM   #3
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Confederacy of Independant Systems (Seperatists) - Geonosis
Galactic Empire - Coruscant (Imperial City) or Byss
Galactic Republic - Coruscant or Kamino
Hutt Cartel - Nal Hutta or Nar Shadda
Rebel Alliance - Yavin 4 or Hoth
Naboo Coalition - Naboo
Trade Federation - Neimoidia
Wookiees - Kashyyyk

Also, I kinda didn't like how RoN's map and gameplay for Conquer the world. If they did it for SWGB2, it should be something different. Maybe even have space battles upon entering systems and stuff....

Also, depending on the timeline, list may vary.
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Old 01-14-2004, 07:22 PM   #4
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SWGB2 has to have space battles... thats why GB lacks some SW feel...


However, conquering planets should work somewhat like settlements in AoM... though not for pop, but allow you to build planetary defences and such, and to actually take the planet, ground battles must be fought... maybe a multilayered map
(IE. Click on a planet, view the ground map ect)


I think they need to have some of the Old republic factions like the mandalorians and the sith... after the sucess of KotOR


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Old 01-15-2004, 01:44 AM   #5
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Vostok - i know that, but the Republic and Empire cant both be in the same place at the same time now can they?

Also, there is a question as to whether the Republic should have Kamino - after all, it is outside the Republic.

With Geonosis, not sure that's a good idea either. After all, all it was was a manufacturing planet, which was taken by the Republic in the first battle of the Clone War.

Phreak - what is it that you didn't like about RoN's 'Conquer the World'?

Maybe, when invading a system where an enemy Fleet/Army was present, you would land with fewer units/resources than normal to simulate space-battle losses.

Masta - no way. The problem is that SWGB is all about the ground battles, and the only things i see in a game combining both Ground and Space battles are really high system requirements and problems.
I would like to see a Star Wars space RTS as well, but not a combined one.

I also think that it's unnecessary to add civs just because another game had them.


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Old 01-15-2004, 10:14 AM   #6
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I want more interaction with the CtG. In RoN, it was like a risk board, I didn't really like that.
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Old 01-15-2004, 09:51 PM   #7
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Well I don't really like this idea anyway.

1. It's copied from RoN.

2. It makes no sense for civs like the Naboo and the Hutt Cartel to conquer the galaxy.

3. You have the problem that both the Empire and the Republic have Coruscant as their homeworld.


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Old 01-16-2004, 01:36 AM   #8
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Vostok - just because it's from RoN doesnt make it bad. I agree about Republic/Empire but what does it matter if the Gungans or Hutt's conquer the Galaxy?
In RoN it doesnt make sense for the Inca to conquer the world either, but it's there because it's fun.

Pheak - could you be a bit more specific? I am interested in how you would have the Conquer the Galaxy mode as opposed to the RoN version.


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Old 01-16-2004, 01:53 PM   #9
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I'd rather have space battles for that type of campaign.

In fact, I'd rather SWGB2 was a Space RTS. Star Wars is behind in the Space Battles department.

Besides, once you destroy the space defenses, the planet is yours.

And I want my damn Star Destroyers.
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Old 01-17-2004, 01:56 AM   #10
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Star Wars isn't behind on the Space Department. Tie Fighter, X-Wing, X-Wing Alliance, Rogue Squadron, Rogue Leader. All great space games.


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Old 01-17-2004, 02:47 AM   #11
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My bad, I guess I shoulda said Space RTS Department.
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Old 01-17-2004, 06:25 AM   #12
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Phreak - we've been over this more times than i can count. Everyone wants a space RTS, but SWGB2 is all about GROUND BATTLES.

Besides, did you fail to notice how the Imperials made a ground assault on Hoth, how the Trade Federation made a ground assault on Naboo, or how the Republic made a ground assault on Geonosis?

BTW, if you want Star Destroyers, go buy 'Star Trek Armada 2' and then download the 'Star Wars Fleet Command' mod for that game - it turns it into Star Wars and is really quite good.


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Old 01-17-2004, 05:02 PM   #13
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I am quite aware of the Fleet Commander mod, I tried to play with a friend of mine the other day, but we could never connect. Keep on getting mismatching game errors... it really sucked. I wanted to build some Super Star Destroyers and kick his ass
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Old 01-18-2004, 11:21 PM   #14
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You misunderstood me, Windu. My problem isn't that it is copied from RON, my problem is that it is copied from RON.


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Old 01-19-2004, 02:20 PM   #15
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I'm sure you've all seen by now that Battlefront will have a conquer the galaxy mode with no space combat. If they can do it for FPS there's no reason why it can't be done in RTS.

Also, Battlefront will only allow Rebels vs Empire or Republic vs Confederacy, which neatly solves the Coruscant question.
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:36 AM   #16
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Vostok - so? Almost everything from SWGB was copied from AoK but you dont seem to mind. What you must understand, my young padawan, is that there have been so many RTS games released that it doesnt so much matter what the ideas are in the game, but how those ideas are connected in the game.
So RoN was the first mainstream RTS with a TBS section built into it. All we do now is buildon that to make it better, and i feel that having a CtG mode in SWGB2 would be better than not having it.


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Old 02-02-2004, 03:56 PM   #17
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While I don't have a problem with SWGB's similarity to AoK, most reviewers did which brought the game down in their eyes. Obviously we need a sequel that is strong enough to stand on it's on merits, not copy what's worked for others.


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Old 02-02-2004, 07:53 PM   #18
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A lot of people buy their games according to reviews. If the review sucks, people will be less incline to buy it.


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Old 02-03-2004, 01:32 AM   #19
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'Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast' was effectively a mod of 'Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force' and yet it got rave reviews.


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Old 02-03-2004, 11:12 AM   #20
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And the reviews I've read say that Jedi Academy is basically the same as Jedi Outcast, but they still like it.
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Old 02-03-2004, 08:40 PM   #21
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You can ge away with borrowing things in FPS's, where originality is hard ot come by, but in an RTS, originality is highly rated, and if you, as a game developer do not add something unique to your game, it will be scalded by the reviewers. Many reviewers led SWGB slide with a copy because it was a good game at heart, and they did add sufficient new stuf, but don't expect to be so lucky next time.


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Old 02-03-2004, 08:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
'Star Wars Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast' was effectively a mod of 'Star Trek Voyager: Elite Force' and yet it got rave reviews.
That's like saying every shooter is a mod of another because they all use guns...


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Old 02-04-2004, 02:07 AM   #23
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Luke - actually im not exadurating. If you open up the JK2 'assets0.pk3' and open up some of the files contained within it, you can clearly see that JK2 is a mod of 'Elite Force'. Some of the examples are that it lists Kyle as 'Munro' and that the 'Elite Force' weapons names are in the file listing the JK2 weapons.

Sith - true, but then as long as the game is true to Star Wars and plays well, it doesnt need to be inovative. SWGB was pretty much true to Star Wars but it just didnt play well, and didnt realistically re-create the type of combat we saw in Star Wars, and that was why it failed.


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Old 02-04-2004, 02:29 AM   #24
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Well that doesn't quite matter. JK:JO is obviously very different from ST:EF. I've never seen a klingon with a lightsaber...

And that's the problem. SWGB was way too similar to AoK which is why it totally was bashed by the critics(well most of them).

Oh I forgot to mention, JA sucks, JO forever!


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Old 02-04-2004, 10:44 AM   #25
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SWGB didn't fail. People are still playing it and it's over 2 years old. Lots of hardcore RTS gamers reckon it's better balanced and more fun than anything which has come out since.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:57 PM   #26
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Well it is better balanced and more fun then anything that has come out ever since


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Old 02-05-2004, 02:24 AM   #27
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Well, i dont know about anyone else, but after getting Rise of Nations, i havent touched SWGB for at least a couple of months - it's just too...stiff in terms of gameplay and rather flawed, especially compared to the newer generation of RTS'.


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Old 02-05-2004, 05:55 PM   #28
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What are the flaws in SWGB?

I played the demo of RoN and it didn't appeal to me. I would have said it was far more "stiff" than SWGB. I found it very slow and tedious. It seems to be designed to make rushing virtually impossible, unless I missed something.
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Old 02-05-2004, 08:01 PM   #29
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RoN seems to much like a more fast-paced Civ3. PLay civ3 and you'll know that RoN is rip-off of civ3.


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Old 02-06-2004, 09:51 AM   #30
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Saber - the flaws in SWGB are that
- It was based on an outdated engine
- The combat is 'stiff', it is played like Medevil combat rather than WW2
- Units were too generic
- Civ bonus' werent good enough
- Not enough variation in unit stats
and so on. Then we can go through the various defeciences of Airpower and the Air Cruiser.

As for RoN, as i said, the combat flows a lot better. There is a greater number of units and unit combinations, as well as the ability to field huge infantry armies, along with some units that can fire on the move. Personally, i find it to be the best RTS i have ever played.


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Old 02-06-2004, 11:59 PM   #31
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And RoN isn't based on an outdated engine? All the other RTS are completely 3D but RoN isn't. If that's not outdated, I don't know what is.

The units in RoN are also generic. Most of them at least.

SWGB doesn't have medieval combat. Formations, yes,heavy weapons, yes, but not combat.

RoN by far did not impress me. It's certainly NOT the best RTS out there. Even AoM(which already is a deception IMO) is a whole lot better. AoM's fast pace actually made more sense then RoN.

Like I said, it's only a fast paced rip-off of the Civilization serie.


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Old 02-07-2004, 06:04 AM   #32
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Luke - no, RoN isnt complately 3D, but then the engine does come out with excellent graphics and has to deal with things like the CTW campaign. Do i think it's outdated? No.

As for SWGB, it is medevil combat with modern weapons, thats all - and what makes it so blocky and stiff.


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Old 02-07-2004, 08:15 PM   #33
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You may think what you want, RoN's engine is outdated.

I guess you don't really know what medieval combat is. Of course, in AoK we had gigantic AT-ATs mowing down formations of pikemen, AT-TE's slaughtering enemy knights and Storm Troopers shooting down some Cavalry Archers.

I'm sure the same tactics are used because of course in medieval times there were dragons who flew around spewing fire on armies...

The simple change of tactics and strategy changes the style completely.


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Old 02-08-2004, 02:13 AM   #34
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Luke - you dont understand, im not talking about the units that are medevil, but the style of combat. The problem with SWGB is that it is based on an engine where almost all combat units are melee, and massed infantry formations were the rule.
However, in SW, mechs play crucial roles in combat, as do aircraft. You might also want to take a look at some medevil films - ranged infantry stodd back and engaged the enemy at range, while the mell units charged in and attack the other melee units - certainly NOT the same as SW.


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Old 02-08-2004, 03:22 AM   #35
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And where do we actually see huge formations of melee infantry in SWGB? There's a few units of course that are melee of course but what else? I've never seen a huge charge of mounties going to fight other mounties.

Like I said, change the units, change the tactics and it's a lot different. Which is why, playing AoK(medieval) and playing SWGB(SW) is very different and the combat certainly is NOT medieval way.


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Old 02-08-2004, 09:18 PM   #36
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Ok, RoN adapted 'Conquer the Galaxy' idea. Good.
RoN style gameplay. Bad.

And no, I don't really think that just having a city as a planet is good. And no. Rebel soldiers don't just fall over and die because they wlaked past a red line on the map. Like the idea, not the gameplay.


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Old 02-09-2004, 01:52 AM   #37
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T10 - i never intended to use RoN's gameplay. With the 'national borders' that you refer to, i would use that, but slightly altered.

I like the idea of borders because then, you cant just build anywhere on the map, you have to literally expand the area you control in order to build further out. HOWEVER i HATE (with a passion) the whole 'attrition' deal. It is one of the things about RoN that irritates me, and i would most certainly not include that in any SW RTS.

BTW, what do you mean by 'having a city as a planet'?


luke - you missed the point, all SWGB infantry are simply edited melee infantry from AoK, one of the reasons it doesnt play well.


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Old 02-09-2004, 02:03 AM   #38
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uh... no it's the edited ranged infantry of AoK...


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Old 02-09-2004, 12:03 PM   #39
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Regardless, the engine that SWGB is based on has melee units as the main infantry, with no aircraft. SWGB on the other hand has ranged infantry and well as mechs as the main units, with aircraft coming into the mix. It just doesnt mesh right.


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Old 02-09-2004, 03:25 PM   #40
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Well, basically, instead of a rectangleish shape, the overall map is circular, like the Star Wars galaxy. Instead of countires that are linked, there are seperate systems. In these systems, there is an amount of space in which a fleet may be positioned. Oh, this is complicated. Let me start from the beginnging.

There is a circular map, with a starry backdrop. However, the foreground is filled by an immense galaxy. In this galaxy, there are planets. You start with one planet, and a small amount of territory around it. You also get a small fleet, which acts as a mobile command centre, carrying troops and construction materials. You capture planets by moving your fleet into their space, if they are unclaimed, you will gain it automatically. If not, you fight a ground battle if there is no fleet present, or a space and ground battle if there are enemy re-enforcements in the vicinity.

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