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Old 02-09-2004, 08:56 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Regardless, the engine that SWGB is based on has melee units as the main infantry, with no aircraft. SWGB on the other hand has ranged infantry and well as mechs as the main units, with aircraft coming into the mix. It just doesnt mesh right.
And your point is? It doesn't "mesh" right? Poor argument.
AoK's engine was at the very least modified enough to incorporate these new features which couldn't have been done better considering the engine and it's already very good.


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Old 02-10-2004, 01:46 AM   #42
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Windu, complaining about SWGB with the 4 people on this Earth who adore it isn't the smartest idea.

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I played the demo of RoN and it didn't appeal to me. I would have said it was far more "stiff" than SWGB. I found it very slow and tedious. It seems to be designed to make rushing virtually impossible, unless I missed something.
Ditto. Too many restrictions and requirements to do the simplest things. Also, the gameplay controls relied too heavily on artificial elements. Instead of having the game balanced so that having more than one unit wasnt beneficial like most games, they slapped a price hike on making multiple units. instead of designing the game so that you build many units, theyh just made each unit count as three. So your massive battles are really just skirmishes in disguise. Instead of having counters that naturally beat units or have slight mulitpliers, they just slaughter units completely beyond realism. A knight would never have killed 10 longbowmen singlehandedly. Instead of making it militiristically unwise to have a roaming attack force or an unsuppported forward base, they disallowed one and punished the other. The list goes on, and all these make for long drawn out games where you're stuck thinking, I could have won this an hour ago, if the computer couldn't just switch units instantly and massacre me with their much cheaper troops. Or the fact that I have to slowly move with my armies. Most other games like AoM employ a combination of natural and artificial barriers, so the player is more free to improvise and strategize, and games don't forever to accomplish what could have been done in a matter of minutes.


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Old 02-10-2004, 09:24 AM   #43
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Sith - i never claimed that RoN was perfect, but there are a LOT of good features in it which could be used in a SWGB sequel.


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Old 02-11-2004, 02:27 AM   #44
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Most of the "good features" were just copied from Ao_ or Civ_. The stuff they added wasn't that great.


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Old 02-11-2004, 05:16 AM   #45
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Now I haven't played RoN but I have played many other RTS games that have been released since SWGB, and I just keep going back to SWGB. It really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be, Windu. The whole thing meshed perfectly fine for me.


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Old 02-11-2004, 09:23 AM   #46
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Maybe not for you, but it is to me. I suppose the main reason i've stopped playing it, besides the poor gameplay, is the fact that the units are represented very poorly in that their abilities in the game vs films are wrong, and so it doesnt have a proper star wars feel to it.


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Old 02-15-2004, 11:27 PM   #47
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Poor gameplay?

If you think the game is so rubbish why do you still post on these forums?


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Old 02-16-2004, 01:34 AM   #48
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Because i think that the idea of a Star Wars themed ground-based RTS has a lot of merit, and that if done properly (ie from the beginning, not using someone else's engine) it could be a fantastic game, and that is something that i want to see.


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Old 03-01-2004, 01:42 AM   #49
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Put your trade federation on Lok it was a droid testing facility and was used to transport droids off. Neimondia or however u spell it is just the home world of its leadership. And since Lok was so close to Naboo it was a nice drop off point for droids to be shipped to the Blockade and then shipped down into the swamps of Naboo. And well after the Republic's fall droids still exist in this desert world deativated and malfuntioning some even still working and attacking travellors.
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Old 03-01-2004, 11:49 AM   #50
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FroZ - the whole point of a homeworld is that it is the POLITICAL center of a particular civ, not a military base.


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Old 03-02-2004, 01:11 AM   #51
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Bad gameplay? Bad gameplay? What game have you been playing? That's this game's greatest attribute. Sure, a may not be original or have good graphics (sounds a lot like RoN, doesn't it?), but it has a great game design and well thoughtout gameplay and balance (ok, there goes the RoN similarities). But then again, you have shown again and again that you have no concept or appreciation for balance and gameplay. As for the second point, Gameplay>Realism.


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Old 03-03-2004, 11:22 AM   #52
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Political..........

People ain't interested in that they want the military aspect of Star WARS not the political why do you think the Viceroys home planet wasn't mentioned in any of the films
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:31 PM   #53
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You know, when SWGB2 comes out... god willing, Windu will STILL find something to bitch about and 3 hours after it's released and Windu loses to the comp on easy, he'll be posting new threads about what SWGB3 should entail! You just can't please some people.



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Old 03-04-2004, 02:06 AM   #54
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FroZ - i'm afraid you've missed the point. I'm not saying that SWGB2 will be all politics. All im saying is that a HOMEWORLD is a POLITICAL center and not a MILITARY one. Take the USA for example. Washington DC is the capital of the USA because it is it's political center. Now do you understand?

PBguy - and once again, left with nothing intelligent or useful to say, pbguy resorts to insults. How sad...


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Old 03-04-2004, 02:23 AM   #55
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Actually, Windu, I think that the insults have much truth behind them. You are displeased with this game for some un-substantiated reasons, and it seems that, unless the new RTS followed your plans verbatim (which will never happen, especially if LA wants to maintain credability and good sales), you will be displeased with that game, and will go on imagining your fantasy one.


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Old 03-04-2004, 07:17 AM   #56
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Sith - i have explained what i think SWGB's flaws are before, and dont see the need to do so again.

As for SWGB2, i really dont care if LA doesnt use any of my idea's, all i want is for the game to be fun and acturately reflect the battles of the Star Wars universe.


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Old 03-04-2004, 10:10 PM   #57
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Yes Windu but I don't remember hearing about battles taking place in washington dc. It doesn'y matter windus next template will be based on his next game of the month like the 3 templates before this one.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:26 AM   #58
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Froz - are you joking? If you're an american, you should be ashamed of yourself. Why is it that you think the Brit's attacked and sacked DC during (i think) the war of 1812?

Why do you think that WW2 ET ended when Berlin was taken?

Why do you think that France fell after Paris was taken?

BTW with your other comments, what 'game of the month' are you talking about, and what '3 templates before this one'?


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Old 03-05-2004, 04:36 AM   #59
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Looks like old Froz is back

Actually, Windu, France did not totally fall. Paris may have been taken but the Resistance still was alive because their leaders and its core were across the Manche, in England. Good old General De Gaulle.


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Old 03-05-2004, 08:49 AM   #60
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Yes, France did totally fall. There was resistance in all of the conquered western nations, but that doesnt change the fact that the Germans controlled those nations.


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Old 03-05-2004, 11:45 AM   #61
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No windu im not a war junky like yourself and dont spend countless hours watching we were soldiers or black hawk down. Windu you are like a pop up full of garbage and never goes away

Lets just hope any Lucas representation sees these flames and totally ignores his ideas

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Old 03-05-2004, 02:31 PM   #62
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lol, actually i've only seen each of those films once each - and both have numerous errors in them, but that's for another time.

The point is Froz, that DC was attacked because it was the center of US political power, and so your attempted point is moot. The whole reason that capitals are attacked is to knock that nation out, hence the capital system in my idea for SWGB2.


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Old 03-05-2004, 04:11 PM   #63
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Ok, gonna take a Star wars example, putting EU aside.

Theed was taken, was the war over? No.

Yavin 4 was taken, did the Rebels surrender? No.

So in Theory, the Rebels' homeworld can be conquered but they'll simply jump to another planet and that's it, there's no way to actually beat them.

Your CtG would work is all the factions were actual "nations" but a resistance movement isn't one. Therefore, the Rebels do not have a "political center" like anyone else but military bases.


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Old 03-05-2004, 04:34 PM   #64
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And the Republic taking control of Geonosis didn't immediately stop the Confederacy either.


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Old 03-06-2004, 01:54 AM   #65
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Luke - actually Naboo did fall. "We are in complete control of the planet now" and "Viceroy, we have captured the Queen" - "ah, victory!"

Yeah, that doesnt sound like the TF winning does it? The fact is, regardless of whether leaders escape or not, the planet/city will still be held by the invading force. Besides luke, how else do you propose knocking out civs?

With the Rebels, they kept moving from base to base, and so really their capital was Home 1 - although of course for CtG we cant have that.

Vostok - of course, because Geonosis was a MILITARY center, not a POLITICAL center!


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Old 03-06-2004, 02:30 AM   #66
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Kill the leader. The Empire fell after the Emperor died. The Trade Federation was defeated after the leaders were captured.


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Old 03-06-2004, 03:58 AM   #67
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Ummm.........Windu, as an American, I'd like to point out that we continued fighting both in the Revolution (when Philly was taken) and the war of 1812 (when DC was taken) and ended up winning one and tying the other. Capitals don't mean much. Its mostly symbolic more than anythnig.


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Old 03-06-2004, 09:39 AM   #68
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luke - you do remember that the TF still exists under Gunray's control at the end of ep2 right?

sith - i am aware of that. But as you love to expouse, gameplay > realism. There needs to be a way to knock civ's out of CtG, capturing their capital seems to be the best way to do it.


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Old 03-06-2004, 12:15 PM   #69
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Well I think i speak for most when i say this capital idea sucks. Once your last unit falls then its over.
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Old 03-06-2004, 10:50 PM   #70
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Windu, there are many ways to knock out an enemy, not just capturing a capital. And, if you are going to make a statement and then back it up with history, then make sure there's adequete support in history.


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Old 03-06-2004, 10:57 PM   #71
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Nute Gunray was still at the head of the Trade Federation because Sidious manipulated the Supreme Court. He would have been thrown to jail if not so. Sidious still needed him for the Separatist movement.

During the Spanish civil war, the Republican still fought after Madrid was taken by Franco's forces. In the end, they lost but they still fought after the fall of the spanish capital.

Japan surrendered after the two nukes were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, not because Tokyo had fallen.


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Old 03-07-2004, 04:11 AM   #72
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luke - in the Spanish civil war, the Republican's were being propped up by numerous international forces.

Also, in WW2, Tokyo never fell. The Japanese Emporer surrended because of the threat of more US nuclear raids.

With the TF, where in the films does it say that? The whole supreme court thingy in Ep2 seems to me to be an indication of the impotence of the Republic, which of course led to the seperatists and the Clone War.


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Old 03-07-2004, 04:59 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
1-luke - in the Spanish civil war, the Republican's were being propped up by numerous international forces.

2-Also, in WW2, Tokyo never fell. The Japanese Emporer surrended because of the threat of more US nuclear raids.

3-With the TF, where in the films does it say that? The whole supreme court thingy in Ep2 seems to me to be an indication of the impotence of the Republic, which of course led to the seperatists and the Clone War.
1-Your point is?

2-Thus capturing the capital isn't the only way to defeat an opponent. Thank you for helping my point.

3-Nowhere. This is an assumption. Nute Gunray was obviously guilty, even the worst tribunals in the world would have condemned him. However, I believe he stayed free because of Sidious who probably persuade a few juges to let him free.


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Old 03-07-2004, 07:41 AM   #74
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1. That their resources and much of their forces were being supplied from outside Spain, hence holding the capital was unnecessary.

2. Tokyo had, however, been destroyed by the time of the nuclear attacks.

3. Obviously this tribunal didnt condem him.


In terms of CtG, am i to assume then that rather then defeating a civ by taking the capital system, you would rather have to take every system that that civ has in their possetion?


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Old 03-07-2004, 10:27 AM   #75
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Quote:
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In terms of CtG, am i to assume then that rather then defeating a civ by taking the capital system, you would rather have to take every system that that civ has in their possetion?
Why not? In RM you have to wipe out every last unit and building unless your opponent resigns. The way I see it, CTG will basically be RM but on a grand strategic scale. As FFA will be inherently "unrealistic" in terms of the combinations of civs it allows (which I don't have a problem with as it's the same as RM) why not just have each player start on a random planet?
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Old 03-07-2004, 03:09 PM   #76
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Windu-

1-So? What does it have to do with your "political" center? The political center was taken.

2-It had been bombed, yes, but not been destroyed or taken. Taken that into consideration, Berlin was wiped out of the map...

3-???

saberhagen

That's actually a good idea. It's original, and since you don't start on the same planet everytime you play a particular civ, its got more replayability. But then the purists won't be happy...


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Old 03-08-2004, 03:29 AM   #77
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Well being Lord of the Purists you may or may not have noticed the attitude I'm taking towards this:

The Republic can fight the Empire.

Ergo

Things ain't entirely realistic.

I think in gameplay terms it would be wise to have a random starting planet. I say this because I've just recently gotten hold of RoN, on which Windu's idea is entirely based. The problem with Conquer the World is that it suffers from the same problem that the game Risk upon which it is based did: if you are a certain country, the geographic location you start in can have advantages and disadvantages. For example some nations start bordering each other, while others are off by themselves so they can take a few territories without having to fight anyone. With random starting locations this could be fixed, though.

Sure it would be weird if you're playing the Gungans and you start on Tatooine, but it's all for fun, so I don't think anyone is going to care too much.

Oh and Windu, Geonosis IS a political center. Perhaps you've forgotten that the Dooku's treaty was signed there? If Geonosis isn't a political center, I don't know what is.


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Old 03-08-2004, 08:48 AM   #78
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Good idea people. I will now change it so that in the free-for-all mode, players start on random planets, perferably as far away from each other as possible.


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Old 03-08-2004, 03:27 PM   #79
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Someone by the name of oback in the "SWGB2: Should it mix ground and space battles" thread suggested that the civs start from "motherships" - though to make it more StarWarsy I'd suggest calling them flagships. This would be ships like the Executor for the Imperials, Home One for the Rebels, and ships like a Droid Control Ship for the Federation/Separatists and a Republic Assault Ship for the Republic. Perhaps that's a good analogy to take? Though on second thoughts it really wouldn't make sense that you can't move around...


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Old 03-08-2004, 07:20 PM   #80
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I think the problems with using spaceships as bases is that it would either make space combat necessary or make the lack of it look more glaring.
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