What do the colours mean?

[Jan Gaarni]

Originally posted by Johch Ai'oki
KotOR, IMHO, is not official SW history 4,000 years B.B.Y. (Before the Battle of Yavin) because it intersects in many ways what was already established as SW history. etc.....

You know, I hadn't thought of this before I read this, but I think you are very much right on this. I can't really remember anyone being named Darth earlier than 2000-1000 years BBY, not even as far back as the old Sith Empire. It has always only been Lord.

But who cares, damn fine game, and that's what it is, a game.
Even the first X-Wing game of 1993 has faults to it, like A-Wings BEFORE the battle of Yavin.

[Johch Ai'oki]

Well, JK2 doesen't really have a good storyline, and isn't technically a part of SW History due to the fact that the Valley of the Jedi's power had already been nulled when Kyle Katarn freed the souls of the trapped Jedi in the valley in Dark Forces 2, one of my favorite all-time SW games (I wish I had it again... I lost it!! *groan*). But you're right, it's a game.

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Bah, It's all a load of EU anyway. It's not even real history.

Quoted because he's correct.

KotOR, IMHO, is not official SW history

It's ironic, because you're taking the word of story A over the word of story B just because A came first. But who's correct?


Correct answer...........NOBODY! It's all just a bunch of stories and NONE of it is official Star Wars history!

[Johch Ai'oki]

Maybe, but then does that stop me from nitpicking about the two EU stories established about the ancient Jedi Knights and Sith Lords 4,000 B.B.Y.? You may not care about what the story is and deem it unoficcial, and you may be right on unofficial, but you're going to have to do better than that if you think you can stop my opinions.
But I semi-agree with you. It isn't in the movies. *shrug*

Oh, and no hostility meant.

[ET Warrior]

And you talking about my inability to stop you debating will not stop me from pointing out the ironies

[Johch Ai'oki]

Well, a lot of ironies come and go in a lot of people's lives.

Ah well, back to the lightsabre topic. Hekx Noku!! Where are ya?! I need ya!

[guybroom]

Originally posted by Johch Ai'oki

Ah well, back to the lightsabre topic. Hekx Noku!! Where are ya?! I need ya!

1) good idea to get back to the thread topic!

2) Who is Hekx Noku? I can't see them anywear on this thread so far...

I have a quick question - Johch Ai'oki is talking about the EU, does Lucas himself gve the storyline etc for it/them? Because othewise we can only realy take the films as "true"

[lukeiamyourdad]

No he doesn't give any storyline to them. They just write something and then a bunch of people read it, Lucas looks at it(for like a sec) and then it's sent to wherever it will be.

[toenail1]

(I have not seen Ep3)

WHAT!?!?!?!?! you mean you havent seen a movie that isnt even done yet!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


man, your behind on things buddy, we all saw it a good 5000 times by now


i always thought that you have seen a movie that isnt even done yet.... but i guess i am wrong

[disaster]

what kind of idiot thread is this?

everyone knows that red is bad and blue/green is good

even if you haven't seen star wars at all you'd know this

geez - I thought all of you star wars nerds would be smart

hence nerds there - I was thinking nerd=smart

but I guess not

the world is unbalanced!

and we shall all die - for I am disaster!

[Johch Ai'oki]

Okay, and your point is Disaster...?

I really don't care about whether the films are true or not. I like the EU because the stories are mostly kept consistant, unlike Star Trek for example, officially or unoficcially.

And there are, aside from white or shades of these colors, six lightsaber blade colors to choose from depending on the crystal you choose when building a lightsaber in a Star Wars story: Blue, Green, Red, Purple, Yellow, and orange.

But then we're going out of topic of this forum if we bring EU in. If I cared, I wouldn't have continued on with EU stuff in a subject involving the symbolic meanings of blade colors both Jedi and Sith bring to them.

Oh, and this is Nekx Hoku... Seems he's been inactive for a while. His website used to have been about some aspects of lightsabers that thelightsaber.com didn't cover, and might not cover in the future, such as the symbolic meanings of Lightsaber colors that the Jedi and Sith place on them. Of course, it was majorly EU stuff about it, but again I didn't care. What I cared about was when he changed his website into something not related to something I thought was useful.

(A small edit: I've been a bit wrong on some things... But most importantly, I found his website! http://jedisabre.sytes.net/ )

[lukeiamyourdad]

Would someone send a mod here to kick the troll out?

[Jan Gaarni]

Disaster doesn't really have a point.

I may be stepping out of line here, but Disaster, personal attacks are not allowed. Keep it "cleaner" next time.

[Darth-Bane]

Blue and green=Love, rainbows, happy go lucky ****

Red=anger and hate
Purple=Mace

Exar Kun's lightsaber just makes me think...why would a dark lord of the sith have a blue saber..

[guybroom]

Originally posted by Darth-Bane
Exar Kun's lightsaber just makes me think...why would a dark lord of the sith have a blue saber.. [/B]

Who?

Once again I have to ask who someone is.

[Darth-Bane]

Originally posted by guybroom
Who?

Once again I have to ask who someone is.

Exar Kun
One of the more powerful sith lords of all time

http://www.starwars.com/databank/cha...kun/index.html

[Johch Ai'oki]

Many good reasons to lack a red lightsaber crystal, or purple for that matter.

1. 4,000 years before the Battle of Yavin--Exar Kun's time--There were no synthesized crystals that projected a red lightsaber blade of hatred like, say, 1,000 years B.B.Y. or even after then. Even though KotOR goes against this established part.

2. As there were no other kinds of crystals except for blue and green around him, he might have taken a less Jedi-like color. It's just like how if you find a lightsaber from a dead Jedi, you wouldn't care what blade it projects would you? It's a lightsaber and it's pretty effective. That's why Exar Kun took some crystals that projected a blue blade. And if he had gotten it from Illum, that's another good reason, as it is rich in crystals that project lightsaber blades.

And did you know, before the Sith started using synthesized crystals, they used natural crystals that projected a purple blade? That was normal I believe, especially at times such as the battle of Ruusan, which was 1,000 years B.B.Y. and at the time which the aftermath created the Valley of the Jedi (creating a storyline for Star Wars: Dark Forces 2 - Jedi Knight).

Oh, and the true symbolic meanings of lightsaber colors. I didn't think I'd have to post this URL again (at a more specific direction).

[Deeo]

You know, honestly, I seriously doubt Sammy L. Jackson really cared about the history of the lightsaber when he asked Lucas for a purple lightsaber. All you have to do is sit back and merely say... "It is Samuel L. Jackson".

I wouldn't be surprised if the bottom of his lightsaber had 'B.A.M.F.' on it.

If you know Sammy Jackson, then you know what B.A.M.F. stands for.

[kipperthefrog]

Maybie there IS no purticular color code of the lightsabers. they just buy what ever color they want! like cars, bikes, George Forman Grills, and other toys!

Exept every single bad guy picks red at coinidence!

[Sead the Darkes]

In some movie about making epII Jackson asked Lucas about his lightsaber colour. Lucas said that good guys have blue and green and the bad guys have red sbars, and then Samuel L. Jackson asked Lucas could he has a purple lightsaber and Lucas agreeded.
And blue and green crystals found in lightsabers aren't only natural. In Shadows of the Empire Luke's creats his lightsaber in some sort of fireplace or somathing like that. And in my opinion red crystals are found in places strong in dark side of the Force. That will explain why the Sith use them

[Sead the Darkes]

Exar Kun HADN't a blue lightsaber in all time of his life. When he was young he was a Jedi then he went to Yavin 4. There he found Sith temple and felt to the Dark Side. Then he started to creating an army to concuer the galaxy and then he constructed a red sith lightsaber. And that's the story

[Johch Ai'oki]

Not according to official EU info. It claims that at first, he had a green-bladed lightsaber, but he modified it to being a blue double-bladed lightsaber, and at the time I don't believe the Sith then had created synthesized crystals, so no red blades. Sorry!

[Kurgan]

There is really no unified theory/opinion about what the lightsaber colors mean, if anything. So the general consensus among fans seems to be that it's just based on personal preferance of the user (aesthetics) and tradition (the Sith seem to like red a lot).

George Lucas says on the AOTC DVD behind the scenes that "blue and green are for good guys and red is for bad guys."

He doesn't say why, just that it is, so it's not really an "in-universe" explanation.

Define "bad guy" and "good guy." Is Anakin a "good guy" when he slaughters the Tuskens? He's using a blue lightsaber at the time and we never see him use a red one until 23 years later (barring any revelations from Episode 3 of course, but I won't got here for fear of spoilers).

In the same scene on the DVD Samuel L. Jackson asks George if his character can have a purple one. George seems to like the idea and says sure.

So we know it's an artistic choice by the people behind Star Wars, but what does it mean in-universe? Again, no consensus. I've read plenty of conflicting reports.

The theories like the "master padawan" thing don't really hold true, and the "Unified Force" (blue) vs. "Living Force" (green) and "Sith/Dark Side" (red) theory is very good, but unfortunately AOTC seems to fly in the face of it, by introducing Purple and having characters switch colors mid-battle (does that mean they switched philosophies for a second?). Likewise even in TPM Obi-Wan uses both "good guy" colors.

I've read (ad naseum) the theory that red sabers are somehow inherently evil. This seems supported by JA's single player, because your saber suddenly turns red when you go to the Dark Side, even though you had no time to build a new one. But, these theories are based on the idea that the Force of the user decides the color (which begs the question of what color a non Force users's saber would be, such as Han, Aurra Sing, or any other character that has wielded one). If a "good guy" grabbed a Sith Lord's lightsaber and used it against him, would the blade change color suddenly?

Likewise the "red is evil" theory often mentions that "Sith use the Dark Side energy through synthetic crystals."

Though according to official material, Luke uses synthetic crystals for his Green lightsaber in ROTJ, and he had no access to anything "Sith" related and he was not (at the time) being tempted by the Dark Side.

So my vote is with personal preference and tradition. Or perhaps it's something else entirely...

[Sead the Darkes]

So Luke just changed from Unified to Living Force be building green-bladed lightsaber?

[guybroom]

I still hold the question open to all.

But to reply to Kurgan, I would say that Obi-Wan in TPM only used the other colour (i don't rember, does he switch from blue to green?) because he has to, he looses his blue one down the well and has to use Qui-gon's green one or else die.

And this is basicly the same in AOTC when Obi-Wan and Anikan use different coloured ones to what they usually would use because they have to. The bug things (any know the species name?) take away Obi's and Anikan brakes his on the convayer belt. Then in the fight, they have to use a lightsabre that they are given.

So on the type of force used, it doesn't count in those situations. It is like saying that in AOTC when Anikan uses two lightsabres, he is using Living Force and Unified Force at the same time for just a few secons!

Also what is the difference between Unified force and Living force?

[Sead the Darkes]

I think that Jedi use a color that represent Unified or Living Force in most of his life, but in danger or if there is no other way he can use a lightsaber that nearest him. For example TMP, AOTC and Clone Wars cartoon when Anakin is using Asajj's Ventress red-bladed lightsaber becouse his blue one fall from the Massasi Temple's top.

[Kurgan]

The "pure canon" differs from the EU on the history of the Sith.

For one, in the Terry Brooks authored "The Phantom Menace" film novelisation (which is higher official level than any EU novel or comic) states that the Sith began as a break-away Jedi sect 2,000 years ago (prior to the events of TPM the movie). The "war" between the Sith sect and the Jedi Order lasted 1,000 years, then they Sith were thought extinct (but in reality, they were simply going with the "only two" rule in hiding). So for 1,000 years the Sith were in hiding until TPM happened.

In AOTC (the movie) we learn that the Republic is roughly 1,000 years old. So the Republic was formed roughly around the time that the "Sith War" ended.

The Jedi Order may be much much older of course, but the age fo the Sith and the age of the Republic pose problems for all the "KOTOR" stories.

So these KOTOR stories might simply be legends (akin to some of the King Arthur or Robin Hood stories, ie: fun, but more fiction than fact), or, (as the EU postulates) some retconning happens like there was a "reforming" of the Republic that started the dating system over and that the "Sith" sect that's 2,000 years old was based on the "lost" rediscovered teachings of some even OLDER sith sect that truly was extinct from thousands of years before or something.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see if Episode III expands any of this, or if it will all be in the EU (I'm guessing the latter).

[Jan Gaarni]

Originally posted by Kurgan
The "pure canon" differs from the EU on the history of the Sith.

For one, in the Terry Brooks authored "The Phantom Menace" film novelisation (which is higher official level than any EU novel or comic) states that the Sith began as a break-away Jedi sect 2,000 years ago (prior to the events of TPM the movie). The "war" between the Sith sect and the Jedi Order lasted 1,000 years, then they Sith were thought extinct (but in reality, they were simply going with the "only two" rule in hiding). So for 1,000 years the Sith were in hiding until TPM happened.

Star Wars lore records that the Sith Cult started 2000 years before TPM, this is correct.
Note that this is the Sith Cult, and has very little to do with the Sith Empire and the Sith race that was defeated 3000 years earlier, other than the teaching they are using.

In AOTC (the movie) we learn that the Republic is roughly 1,000 years old. So the Republic was formed roughly around the time that the "Sith War" ended.

The Jedi Order may be much much older of course, but the age fo the Sith and the age of the Republic pose problems for all the "KOTOR" stories.

While this at first appears to be a very decisive blow against the EU Star Wars, it can still be questioned exactly what he (Palpatine) means with what he says. As both Movies and EU record that there was a 1000 year struggle that ended roughly 1 thousand years before the Movies, we don't know for sure how devestating this war was. Perhaps it was even more devestating than the EU tells.


Then again, someone did raise the possibility that when Obi-Wan told of the Jedi being over a 1000 generations old, he may have ment that each year, a new generation of Jedi children begin their training.

[ibanez343]

One thing you guys have overlooked is that Windu's lightsaber was not created using a crystal, it is an electrum lightsaber. So I guess any color is possible using the Electrum technique, just a guess though. I thought the same thing about the whole blue=padawon, green=master, and red=sith thing. of course ep2 totaly destoyed that theory... If I find a link on the electrum lightsaber I will post it.

[Lord Siraious]

*sigh* the electrum refers to the finish of the outer casing of the lightsaber only.

[ibanez343]

oops...

[guybroom]

some one fill me in, the electrum light saber is - what exactly?

[Jan Gaarni]

Originally posted by guybroom
some one fill me in, the electrum light saber is - what exactly?

http://www.starwars.com/episode-ii/i...k20030527.html

http://www.fact-index.com/w/we/weapo...ml#Lightsabers

[Wraith 8]

--++ OFF TOPIC ++--

guybroom.
i love your sig and all... but its really LOOONG!
if your only posting like 1 sentence a time.. would you mind just clicking the check button for signature... its anoying

--++ ON TOPIC ++--

.... in this entire discussion i kinda believe only 1 person
Jan.... as i know his details are like 99 times right out of a 100

Wraith 8

[guybroom]

ok wraith, how's it now?

So does the Electrum saber just mean it has a different metal on the handle than a normal sabers?

[joesdomain]

If we are talking lightsaber colors then colors are just what crystal the jedi use to make the lightsaber. One color is not powerful over the other. Although the Sith tend to choose the red color for some reason.

[guybroom]

We all know that the crystals are what gives the saber its colour, but is there anything symbolic about them?