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Old 01-19-2004, 08:31 AM   #1
ksk h2o
 
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WIP: Custom Model Pack

Aka: Grayfox2 Project

I'm putting together a custome model type. The meshes are based on my Grayfox2 Model for JO.

The GF Model was tweaked a little at the leg portion since his last release.

One of the Meshes is Darth Malak.

There are three other meshes which can be briefly described as:
Monk Outfit
Ninja Outfit
Armor Outfit

There are multiple heads that will be selectable.

The pack will also inclue 3 swords.
A Katana Blade, held upright. Can be used to dual wield.
A Katana Blade, held upside down. Can be used to dual wield.
A slightly different Katana Blade held upside down. Cannot be used to dual wield.

The three swords use .sab files that modify their behavior, taunts, moves, etc.

Below are links for photos:
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf1.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf2.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf3.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf4.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf5.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf6.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf7.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/gf9.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/multi.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/1.jpg
http://talocan.net/network/grayfox/3.jpg
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Old 01-19-2004, 11:35 AM   #2
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Looks good, keep up the great work!
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Old 01-19-2004, 12:40 PM   #3
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Oh my god!
Please say you'll let me beta test! These look AWESOME!


I would like to beta test YOUR models
I love graves. You should love him too.
Thanks SupremePain for the avatar.
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Old 01-19-2004, 10:57 PM   #4
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if you still need a skinner, I can help. but I might need to work out a schedule(sp?) cause I think my life's going to get more busy lately.


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 01-20-2004, 07:05 AM   #5
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You should make it a selectable species.
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Old 01-20-2004, 12:37 PM   #6
Hellfire Jedi
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Re: WIP: Custom Model Pack

Quote:
Originally posted by ksk h2o
I'm putting together a custome model type.


I would like to beta test YOUR models
I love graves. You should love him too.
Thanks SupremePain for the avatar.
Mike-
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:21 PM   #7
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I'll be needing a LOT of testing for this thing to work.

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Old 01-30-2004, 12:45 AM   #8
Miko Reglia
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holy moly!

excellent work dude, it is very obvious your going to need a lot of testing!



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Old 01-30-2004, 03:44 AM   #9
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Yeah, testing... heheh. Testing.

erm... Nice job btw!


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 01-30-2004, 09:17 AM   #10
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But you will put all of them ingame?




~JA MP Total Conversion~
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Old 01-30-2004, 03:19 PM   #11
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Yes, they will all be in game, and it will be a CUSTOM MODEL TYPE. Meaning you can pick the ninja pants with the naked torso, or the armor with darth malak pants, etc etc etc. There are five different body meshes (toso/legs) which you can mix to your liking. There will also be a number of skins available.

It is taking a long time weighing in all the meshes. One they are all weighed, I'll have to map and skin them, then test them, debug them, etc etc... it's still a ways off.

Two of the full body meshes have been wieghed but there's still a long ways to go.

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Old 01-30-2004, 06:38 PM   #12
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If you need help testing them, please don't forget about me.


I would like to beta test YOUR models
I love graves. You should love him too.
Thanks SupremePain for the avatar.
Mike-
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Old 01-30-2004, 11:41 PM   #13
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It's astounding!! Good work, as always.


I've got a bad feeling about this...
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Old 01-31-2004, 09:56 PM   #14
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awesome stuff dude i totally cant wait!!


In Loving Memory Of Corinne Brittan.

September 3rd 1986 - November 30th 2003
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Old 03-04-2004, 04:37 AM   #15
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UPDATE

New Meshes, and New Skins in store.




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Old 03-04-2004, 04:09 PM   #16
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Holy ****zu, Nice Samurai thing going on there


"We all Have to Die Someday, I'm just lucky I got to say my goodbyes before my term was up."-Randy Darke (R.I.P)
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Old 03-06-2004, 07:22 AM   #17
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*wiggles with anticepation(sp?)*


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 03-17-2004, 03:42 PM   #18
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Well, the samurai mesh is all wighed and in game. It hs two heads.

One with a face mask and horns and one without a face mask and no horns.

Now I need to get to work on the skin InsaneSith Sent me and we need to start skinning all the misssing meshes.


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Old 03-17-2004, 03:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by ksk h2o
Well, the samurai mesh is all wighed and in game. It hs two heads.

One with a face mask and horns and one without a face mask and no horns.

Now I need to get to work on the skin InsaneSith Sent me and we need to start skinning all the misssing meshes.

sounds fun. can't wait to start skinning that samurai ^-^ it looks so funderful.


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-17-2004, 05:52 PM   #20
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The model is quite heavy unfortunatey. It is about 3800 polys.

Now I cant cut it down further without cuting detail.

Once a proper skin is on it, it will be easier to see if the models detais can be done away with.

I'll have the model hosted for skinning tomorrow and start working on the ninja skin you sent me.

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Old 03-22-2004, 07:36 AM   #21
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*healthy bump*

so, now that Malak's done you can start on these guys?


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 03-22-2004, 07:45 AM   #22
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Yeah I'll be focusing on this model pack now...

I'll be sending the latest version of the file to InsaneSith so he can start skinning the samurai while I work on the ninja skin he sent me.

I really would like to get some more skinners involved in the project. There is SO much potential to the pack with the adition of some nice skins.

The number of possibilites is simply HUGE.

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Old 03-22-2004, 07:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by ksk h2o
The model is quite heavy unfortunatey. It is about 3800 polys.

Now I cant cut it down further without cuting detail.

Are you saying that all the meshes that make up that samurai add up to 3800, or do you mean that all the meshes for the whole pack (including multiple heads, etc...) add up to 3800?

Just curious and trying to clarify.
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Old 03-22-2004, 08:22 AM   #24
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oh no, 3800 is just the Samurai mesh. Meaning if he were a stand alone model, he'd be 3800 polys.

Now This can be cut down to 3k, but I would be removing detail on the helmet, and those armor parts for which I don't know the name of... you know the rectangular things on his arms and hips.

This detail could be removed if the skin on those surfaces is very good and does a good job of giving the impression that they are segmented.

The whole pack itself is whoof... 20k polys? something roughly lilke that... probably more.

You have 6 fully interchangeable body meshes, and about 12 heads... speak about possibilities in skinning huh? =)

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Old 03-22-2004, 01:43 PM   #25
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<_<
>_>

Samurai With his mask on. ^-^


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-22-2004, 10:01 PM   #26
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Samurai don't wear their swords on their backs.

and isn't his face supposed to look likea demon? to scare his enemies and make them poop their pants?

I could help skin ksk, although I've never tried to skin a model likethis, with the different combinations. my e-mails dragon1warrior@msn.com


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 03-22-2004, 10:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by RaSiN_HeCk
Samurai don't wear their swords on their backs.

and isn't his face supposed to look likea demon? to scare his enemies and make them poop their pants?

I could help skin ksk, although I've never tried to skin a model likethis, with the different combinations. my e-mails dragon1warrior@msn.com
It's not finished yet, and the holster tags on the side send the sword through his legs so I was just showing off what looked best.

I still have to think of a design to put on the mask.

anyway, I did some work on the d1 torso.



“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-22-2004, 11:15 PM   #28
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Looking good IS.

I'llbe sending you the link for the model tomorrow Rasin.

I'm very eager to see your work.

=)

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Old 03-22-2004, 11:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
It's not finished yet, and the holster tags on the side send the sword through his legs so I was just showing off what looked best.
It doesn't look like any of these? 1 2 3

Quote:
Originally posted by InsaneSith
I still have to think of a design to put on the mask.
Some variations of Oni (demon) to base the mask on. A B
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Old 03-23-2004, 12:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei
It doesn't look like any of these? 1 2 3
like I said the side holster tags weren't set up to sit horizontally so I just used the staff holster tag, just to show it off.

Ksk, do you plan on updating the holster tags so that if i put a sword there it doesn't go through the leg?


also I went and put on some demon teeth.



“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-23-2004, 02:00 AM   #31
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that's what I was talking about, nice


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:51 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by RaSiN_HeCk
that's what I was talking about, nice
Yeah, it's kind of hard with the restrictions of the mask's model. taking a lot of thought to try and pull things off, to get those teeth took me about an hour and a half to get it to look right and make it look as though they are actually popping out. I added some accent in the cheek if you hadn't notices. gave it that evil demon grin the masks have.

I've been doing some more work on the d1 selection and i fixed up the monk head i'm still not done with it though, gonna try and add some more tone to it.



“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-23-2004, 05:25 AM   #33
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it's like a Cyber Monk O.o I'd think he'd wear a tunic thing... like a normal Monk.


People who sin say this: They had to, to survive. People who sin say this: It's too late now to stop. The shadow called Sin dogs them steadily from behind, without a word. Remorse and Agony are repeated, to finally end up at Despair. But sinners don't know that if they turn around, there is a light... a light which keeps shining on them ever so warmly. A light that will never fade.
-Vash the Stampede
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Old 03-23-2004, 05:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by RaSiN_HeCk
it's like a Cyber Monk O.o I'd think he'd wear a tunic thing... like a normal Monk.
lol, I was just showing off the other work I've done. I was thinking ksk could do a shader for the d1 set maybe add a tron like glow to the neck guard and armor plates. just a thought


“This body is not me. I am not caught in this body.
I am life without limit.”
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:33 AM   #35
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Those are looking sweet IS.

I'll take a look at the shaders. You want a tron-like pattern added tot he neck?

I like the monk face. I think it will look good with the B torso and E legs. =)

You could have told me you wanted to add teeth. I could have added those right to the mesh in a few minuts (it would have added more polys though.

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Old 03-23-2004, 08:25 AM   #36
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I don't remember what thread it was in, but you mentioned something about not doing LODS.

LODS would be beneficial on a model like this where the polycount is so high because of the following:

NOTE: This is from a post by Hapslash(obviously)
Quote:
Originally posted by Hapslash
Here's that long winded reply on polygon count that I was promising,.. For those who are disinterested in the technical aspects of polygon count and information an LODs than avoid this at all cost, cause that's all it is,...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you go only by the highest detailed LOD then the default models span anywhere from 2400 for the Jedi on up to 3400 for Jan. Generally my models span close to that amount. For instance the IG-88 I've been working on is only about 2600 while the Darth Vader I've been fiddling with is around 3600. So,... yes, my models do tend to be a little bit more poly intensive than most models.


But to be honest, poly count is more complex than just that,... If you take into affect the 4 different LODs that the game supports, and utilize them, then you have the ability to get the most out of your model.


Here's an example,...

First I'll take a well known model, say Count Dooku. He's around 2800 polys, well under the widely accepted 3000 limit. Next I'll take the Darth Vader I'm working on. I'll just say 3600 for now. At first you could say that there's a huge difference in the poly count, and that Vader would be much harder on your machine. But,... Dooku only has one LOD while Vader will have four.

If I were to make the different LODs, say

1-3600 2-2900 3-1900 4-1000

All totaled, they would equal out to be 9,400, while Dooku uses the same 2800 for every LOD level and ends up being 11,200. So when taking the LODs into consideration a lower poly model lacking LODs will be more poly intensive than a higher one that includes them.

I've even been rather conservative when calculating the different LOD levels,... The average polygon count of the LODs for the default models is down around 800 for LOD3 and 400 for LOD4.


But with the evident advantages of using LODs also comes the inherent burden of having to weight the 4 different LODs as if they were 4 separate models. I believe that this is the reason as to why most modelers don't even bother with them at all. Unfortunately they don't realize the benefits of using the LODs otherwise we might have even greater looking models out there then we already do.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is probably much more information than most people are interested in, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible. So, in summary the models that I'm working on, some of which can be higher in polygons, will probable be no more debilitating to your system, and in some cases even less, than most of the average models available for download.



So, basically if you were to do LODS you could keep a higher than normal polycount.

I know LODS would be a lot of extra work but this might be a way to work around that:

PyskoSith's Website

Click on tutorials on the Left and then LODS on the Right.



I don't know if you've seen that already or not, but it would be useful for knocking the polycount down quickly on your large number of meshes.

It does say thought that the weighting will only remain if you used envelopes to weight the model as opposed to manual weighting. (I don't know which method you've used for your models.) So, if you manually weighted the original mesh, each LOD would have to be reweighted, which would be the large amount of work that you want to avoid.


Anyways, as noted in the post by HapSlash, you would be able to keep higher levels of detail on the mesh if LODS could be applied. It all depends on whether or not you can lower the polycount while keeping the detail you want (if you can do that, then this might not be practical for you), but if the detail on the textures isn't enough for you, this could be a manageable way of keeping the geometric details on the mesh. It would still be extra work, but worth it if it could improve the final product.

Just trying to help. (Sorry this post ran a little long. )
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Old 03-23-2004, 04:07 PM   #37
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Thats good info on LODs and polycounts.

I know how useful LODs are for lower end systems.

Grayfox had all the LODs since he was a standalone model.

However, think of this, lets ignore the head meshes and focus on the body meshes:

6 body meshes x 4 LODS = 24 meshes to weigh.

Since the weighing is manual, this would mean I would have to weigh 18 more meshes... Plus I also have to do some heavy editing on HOW polychop chops off faces as all the meshes need to line up perfectly at the neck and hips.

Not to mention how unwieldy my 3ds max file is going to get once I multiply the total scenes polygon count by 4.

If he were a stand alone model, no problem, I would LOD him. But LOD'ing all these meshes is just way more work than I'm willing to put into this.

LOD's are also VERY important when you are replacing abundant models like the storm trooper, the other troopers, frequently appearing enemies etc.

For the LODs to play a really significant role on a mid-end system, one would need to have quite a bit of these custom models running around at once. If someone wants to use the samurai mesh in some sort of medieval japan mod where it is the standard enemy then yes, this would cause some pretty big problems. But seen the filesize this pack is going to be, and the fact that it is not a Star Wars based model pack, I think there won't be THAT many people running around public servers with this samurai mesh (out of the other mosehes int he pack too).

I would have liked to have LODs but 18 more meshes to adjust and wiegh is just way too much work.

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Old 03-23-2004, 05:42 PM   #38
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Yah, I know what you're saying. Manual weighting that many meshes would be a lot of work. (It would probably get boring too.)


Do you know if it's possible to make an LOD in a pack like this for some of the meshes but not all of them?

Say for example you had the samurai set of meshes that you wanted to do LODS for since it would really benefit it in game. Could you make LODS just for those meshes, but not for any of the others and still have the LODS for the samurai function correctly?


I'm just curious because I'm still fairly new at modeling at haven't had a chance to try anything with LODS yet since I'm not that far.



Just to be clear, I'm not trying to press the LOD issue or anything because I understand your point completely. I'm just curious on whether or not it works like that. Hope you didn't take it the wrong way.

Last edited by Noxrepere; 03-24-2004 at 05:43 AM.
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Old 03-24-2004, 07:52 AM   #39
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I don't know if I were to make only the LODS for the samurai mesh weather that would effectively act as seperate LOD's just for the Samurai.

I don't know if ALL the other meshes would start using those LODS when far away, making them all look like the samurai from far away.

It might work, it might not. It could work, depending on how the code for LOD switching was written. In that case that one particlar mesh could have LODs and the rest could be done away with... I don't know if the game woudl accept incomplete LODs for the mesh sets though.

Something pretty neat that you could do with LOD's though, is actually change their appearance. This way the model will look different from afar. Kind of like a hallucination or a mirage that changes appearance when you get closer.

The shape change would probably be very brutal and not look very well though. =(

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Old 03-24-2004, 08:31 AM   #40
keshire
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The game should accept incomplete model LODS. I don't believe it differentiates between models and meshes. But don't quote me on it.


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