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Old 01-31-2004, 11:16 PM   #41
eidospsogos
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yes, i would have to agree with you there. the stripes thing was about the only downside to the armor. though they look better than some of the stripes on some of the other armor.

however, and unfortunately, i have banned myself from skinning as it seems to distract me VERY much from my other graphic design related duties. a little modding here and there doesn't take away from the time or creative energy i need to be putting into other projects. that is why i chose to mod what was my favorite armor overall aesthetically from the game. because i am TOO detail oriented when it comes to these types of things, and i would spend weeks on one skin. so i picked one i liked and gave it good stats. trust me i would like to do skinning, but it's not good for my livelihood. someone else will have to step in there.
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Old 02-01-2004, 02:57 AM   #42
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alright, sorry, but I seem to be having trouble connecting to my FTP server at the moment... I'll have the file up as soon as I can.
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:25 AM   #43
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hey, no need for apologies. as far as i see it you're doing me, and anyone interested in the armor a huge favor. i appreciate the hosting alot. hope everyone enjoys the armor.
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:41 AM   #44
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Alrighty, 2 things. First off, you apparently know a lot more about Exar Kun than I do, so I will just agree with you on that. I was just giving my opinion. Secondly, I am going to see what I can do with reskinning the Kun armor. I was thinking either black pants and sleeves, or perhaps tan or brown. I need opinions on what you all think would be best.


"Never argue with a fool, for he could be doing the same."
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:52 AM   #45
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you are more than entitled to your opinion, whatever it may be. i was simply sharing mine. and maul had one small advantage with his saber: were it to be damaged he could use it as a single saber. as it was two sabers fused together. such was not the case with kun's. his double blades stemmed from a single crystal and power source, unlike the two separate ones that made up maul's saber.

as for skinning, my suggestion for armors would be this. his armor by the time of the war, was pretty much black gray and silver, with occasional green and purple accents. i know it sounds ugly, but in comics it doesn't look that bad. (but the purple and green are also the reason i liked the brown/neutral armor better) so, i would focus on using grays, blacks and silver if you wanted the sith exar armor. brown and tan for those who loved the guy, but still like the lightside.

and if you actually undertake this project, i would be more than willing to chip in and/or collaborate. i know i shouldn't, but it's just becoming too much fun.

if you go the sith armor route it might be fairly easy to start with the textures for the cinnagar war suit, or the environmental bastion armor for references, as they have colors similar to what you would be looking for.
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Old 02-01-2004, 04:31 AM   #46
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Alright, for my first version, I simply made the "stripes" black and darkened the pants to dark-brown. It is still shiny and the armor itself retained its color. This is just a quick version to get an idea of how it would look like without the gaudy stripes and more of a "sithlord" feel. I Personally think if I did this, changed the armor color to silver, and added blue accents that it might look nice. But for now the armor is brownish-copper and I just darkened the pants and stripes.

Edit: Alright, here is the correct link. Sorry that the image is a little small.

http://stryke.fotopic.net/photo.php?id=2618621


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Last edited by Darth Stryke; 02-01-2004 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 02-01-2004, 04:46 AM   #47
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Alrighty, sorry again for the delay, but heres the file:
Linky
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:07 AM   #48
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hey, stryke. got something for you. i'll email it to you. pop it in your override folder and load it up. it gives some pretty cool shader effects. and be sure to let me know what you think.
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:26 AM   #49
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I hate to derg up old(ish) arguments, but, those sith lords fo the past may have used a double bladed lgihtsaber, there is no histpry on that (as far as I know). My assumtion came from this line in my SW Weapons dictionary: "Some unique objects are invariably associated with their owners." First line in the except about Kun's lightsaber. I'm sure the IDEA of a double-bladed lightsaber was readily out there, but no one took the time, or saw the nessesity to construct one. Same thing for Duel sabers. The idea was out theer, but there was never any need to carry around 2 lightsabers.

What are the comics about Exar Kun, I'm very interested in reading them.

Stryke - I doubt Maul (or the actor who played him) woudl win against Kun. he was an excelent tactician (you gotta be to almost wipe out the Republic AND the jedi), and no doubt this played a large role in how he fought. He could be considered one of the the best swordsman in the SW history.
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Old 02-01-2004, 06:59 AM   #50
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the comics are as follows:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith #1-6


Tales of the Jedi: The Sith War #1-6

the OFFICIAL Star Wars website, www.starwars.com says this:

found at:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/tec...htsaber/?id=eu

As the Jedi had not faced the Sith for centuries, lightsaber dueling had become a lost art.
To focus their training and their skill, Jedi still partake in practice duels and sparring
contests, but to face an actual saber-wielding opponent was not something any Jedi expected
before the Naboo crisis. In the past, the double-ended lightsaber was reserved only for training
purposes.

Unlike the Jedi, who use natural crystals mined from such worlds as Ossus in the Adega system,
the Sith prefer synthetic crystals to generate their lightsaber blades. While the crystals are
being forged in a blazing furnace, it is not uncommon for a Sith to reach out with the Force and
manipulate the process, focusing his hatred for the Jedi to increase the potency of the crystals.

Millennia ago, the Sith Lord Exar Kun fashioned a modified lightsaber with two blades. During the
events of the Great Sith War, Kun modified his existing weapon to increase its lethality. Customized
controls allowed him to extend the length of each blade from half a meter to one-and-a-half meters.

and this:

found at:

http://www.starwars.com/databank/tec...ithlightsaber/

The lightsaber is the weapon of the Jedi, but it is also used by the evil Sith. The deadly Darth Maul
used a double-ended blade as his primary weapon. In his skilled hands, the swinging blade becomes an
arc of destructive energy, capable of cutting anything it comes into contact with. The Sith lightsaber
is basically two lightsabers end-to-end. It can be selectively used with only one end ignited.

so i would think those two definitions make it quite clear that more people than exar kun had used the lightstaff.

but just in case that's not good enough, here's one more:
(from swe.starwarsclub.org History of the Darkside Part 4)

found at:

http://swe.starwarsclub.org/darkjedi/history4.htm

Master and student it used to be and now it was Master of the Light versus Dark Lord of the Sith. The two fought. Exar Kun with his lightsaber and Vodo Siosk-Baas with his wooden staff. Vodo fought with all of the combined might of the Jedi behind him. Exar Kun fought with all of the dark treachery of the Sith on his side. Exar Kun had made some modifications to his lightsaber since the two had last fought some six months ago. Exar Kun had uncovered the dark ways of Sith weaponry. Exar Kun had made a double-bladed lightsaber. Lightstaff versus Jedi staff. Vodo Siosk-Baas, Jedi Master to hundreds of Jedi, teacher to countless Jedi, teacher to Exar Kun, was gone.

i think that all makes it very clear that the technology existed before kun, and that he was not the first nor the last to use it.
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:26 AM   #51
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i agree the technology was around, and the idea of using it, but no one ever did. in all of those, Kun (and Maul )were the only ones to have stated as being users of it (in the last one he uses a wooden staff). No one used it because it wasn't expected to be needed. And it wasn't. Even Kun modified his only after starting the Sith War (i think..), when he had greater need for a deadlier lightsaber. Your first example says this clearly. No one used it as a weapon, but it was used for training.
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Old 02-01-2004, 02:04 PM   #52
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oh, come on. read between the lines a little. you should not need to have them spell it out for you to understand what is being said. they stated that Exar Kun had discovered SITH WEAPONRY, in order to modify his saber. which obviously implies that the weapon was once USED by the SITH. how would the thechnology for something exist, without ANYONE EVER using it. It would undoubtedly not be called SITH weaponry had it never been USED by the Sith. things just don't work that way. i am the first to agree that Exar Kun was great. BUT he was not the FIRST user of the light staff. (which the star wars encyclopedia defines as a weapon once USED by the old jedi knights)

so, it is obvious that no matter how illogical the idea that exar kun being the FIRST to use one of these is, that you are bound and determined to completely ignore everything anyone might sate that would prove otherwise. you are deadset that he was the first to use it,(and i understand why, i like exar kun too....) even though he would have never even known how to make it had he not been possessed by a sith ghost that knew how to construct it. he was the first to use it even though the weapon is referred to as a SITH lightsaber. implying it was conceived of, designed, and used by the SITH. and there were many many Sith around long befoire exar kun was invaded by one's spirit. and by this point there were practically no sith left at all. so were it to be referred to as sith weaponry, during a point in time when there practically were NO sith, it fits to reason they used it enough beforehand for people to know that a double-bladed saber was a sith weapon. it's not called the kun-saber, now is it. and if the weapon were USED for practice, i am sure occasionally at least one student decided they liked the weapon enough to continue using it.

and even without every example i gave that positiively denies that kun was the first to use one, just because only two of the users of this weapon were famous enough for people to know they USED the weapon, in NO WAY means some jedi that no one had ever heard of before might have used one as his primary weapon. i mean would you look back at biblical history and state that because david is the only specific person mentioned as using a sling, he was therefore the FIRST and ONLY person to ever use a sling.

and i found the rather flawed history of kun that you cited your unique weapon quote from, and it is wrong in so many aspects it's not funny. first of all exar's saber looked like maul's only in the aspect of it having two blades. nothing else was the same. second, ulic DID NOT lead the republic forces that finally destroyed Kun. when his force powers were stripped away from him by nomi sunruider after he killed his own brother, he was coerced into betraying his master by telling them where his bases of operation were. he then went into exile. by the time he got back to yavin IV the war was long over and kun long dead.

AND the site continually refers to Kun's FALL to the darkside etc etc. never once mentioning that when all this began he has perfectly good intentions and was in no way attempting to becaome a sith or gain power in the darkside. he was possessed by the spirit of a sith, and fought it as often and as hard as he possibly could, only resorting to the darkside as a last resort for saving his life. he never completely gave in and stopped fighting until the yavin IV massassi blood ritual.

so, i understand why it would be easy to believe, and to want to belive that exar kun was the first to use a saber of this sort. but he wasn't.

Last edited by eidospsogos; 02-01-2004 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:08 PM   #53
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for the override to work do i have to start a new game ?
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:39 PM   #54
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If you are talking about the armor properties changing, you must either start a new game or use cheats to spawn a new armor since all armors that existed in your savegame keep their properties.


I check out your reskin-my main issue with it is that the stripes are still there and more obvious than before. Other than that, it is just a bit too dull (as you said) I am thinking I might completely redo mine to be based off of blue instead of brown. Not sure though, have to play around with the colors more.


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Old 02-01-2004, 04:45 PM   #55
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hey, updated version without the stripes(on the armor if that is the stripe you are referring to).kept the shader effect, and reversed a little of the color washout that had occured. i'm emailing it to you right now. check it out.
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Old 02-01-2004, 05:21 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoL_Stryke
If you are talking about the armor properties changing, you must either start a new game or use cheats to spawn a new armor since all armors that existed in your savegame keep their properties.


I check out your reskin-my main issue with it is that the stripes are still there and more obvious than before. Other than that, it is just a bit too dull (as you said) I am thinking I might completely redo mine to be based off of blue instead of brown. Not sure though, have to play around with the colors more.
i figured out what i doing wrong when i extracted them they created new folders in my override so i had to it from there to the main Override folder
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Old 02-01-2004, 07:11 PM   #57
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So... ummm... is Exar Kun supposed to be better than Revan/Malak/Vader/Palpy? Just curious, since I've never read any EU stuff
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Old 02-01-2004, 08:12 PM   #58
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Well, i will try my best not to ruffle any feathers. but i would say yes. he has pretty much been one of the most powerful Sith lords ever. while Palpatine succeeded in doing what exar kun could not, he was aided by the one master one apprentice ONLY rule, that was NOT in effect at the time of exar kun. (darth bane destroyed all the sith/dark jedi and decreed that from that day forward there would be ONLY one master and ONLY one apprentice. that way the power of the darkside would not be spread so thin.) exar kun nearly succeeded in gaining what the emperor had gained merely through open war. while palpatine used political maneuvering and trickery to achive his goals.

so, i would say yes. though some will disagree with me i am sure.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:54 PM   #59
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I may have missed it in the thread but where is this armor available? I mean in the game...
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Old 02-01-2004, 11:15 PM   #60
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you can buy it from the czerka store on korriban. it is past the first desk where the rodian sells cassus fett's pistol. but before you get to the cantina area, take a right into a room with another desk. talk to the man at the desk and ask him to show what he has for sale. exar kun's light battle suit is one of the items offered here.
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Old 02-02-2004, 01:54 AM   #61
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I want to offer a SLIGHT disagreement. The one master/one app only rule is strictly for the sith. At the time of palpy, there are still (supposidly) dark jedi floating around. The major thing is that the Dark Jedi could not usurp the sith and there was but 2 sith (kinda like a jedi council in that the sith ruled over the dark jedi) THis is mentioned in many books, for instance Mara Jade began as a dark jedi serving palpy while vader was his apprentice. So there were still dark jedi, but they were under domain of the sith around palpy's time instead of trying to dominate, since Darth Bane forbid that way back when. And by the way, Palpatine is probably the most powerful sith ever. He and only he completely took domain over the Galaxy and decimated the Jedi Order. And George Lucas made up Star Wars and said Palpy was the strongest so, ya, thats pretty much it.

EDIT:

And I also want to add that Palpatine only died because he was betrayed by the chosen one of the prophecy, which stated that When the chosen one kills the dark lord of the sith, the dark lord's apprentice shall fall as well. But as we all know, Exar would have chewed up vader and spit him out for breakfast, and Maul would have as well probably defeated vader due to his superior physical prowess. And Don't bring up how maul died, maul won the fight and obi wan got lucky.


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Old 02-02-2004, 02:18 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoL_Stryke
I want to offer a SLIGHT disagreement. The one master/one app only rule is strictly for the sith. At the time of palpy, there are still (supposidly) dark jedi floating around. The major thing is that the Dark Jedi could not usurp the sith and there was but 2 sith (kinda like a jedi council in that the sith ruled over the dark jedi) THis is mentioned in many books, for instance Mara Jade began as a dark jedi serving palpy while vader was his apprentice. So there were still dark jedi, but they were under domain of the sith around palpy's time instead of trying to dominate, since Darth Bane forbid that way back when. And by the way, Palpatine is probably the most powerful sith ever. He and only he completely took domain over the Galaxy and decimated the Jedi Order. And George Lucas made up Star Wars and said Palpy was the strongest so, ya, thats pretty much it.

EDIT:

And I also want to add that Palpatine only died because he was betrayed by the chosen one of the prophecy, which stated that When the chosen one kills the dark lord of the sith, the dark lord's apprentice shall fall as well. But as we all know, Exar would have chewed up vader and spit him out for breakfast, and Maul would have as well probably defeated vader due to his superior physical prowess. And Don't bring up how maul died, maul won the fight and obi wan got lucky.
WAIT!

Anakin was really the chosen one???
I thought Luke was this entire time!
I've been living a lie!

BTW, can one of ya let me know what the filename of Exar's Armor's Texture?

Thanks
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Old 02-02-2004, 02:47 AM   #63
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Yes, Anakin was the chosen one you will find out the info about the chosen one killing the master and apprentice falling in Episode 3.


"Never argue with a fool, for he could be doing the same."
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Old 02-02-2004, 02:50 AM   #64
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there is no luck, there is only the force.

but though one can attempt to rationalize why there are still dark jedi in this time period other than the one master and one apprentice, this is only the case because the star wars universe was constructed in a haphazard patchwork, randomly here and there. and so certain things like there being more than two sith in a certain time era, when there should NOT be, occurs because the era was created before the era in which darth bane's concept of the sith came about. basically i think he came about as an explanation for why there seemed to be alot more jedi than sith, but no one took into account these timelines you discussed when there were more than two. sith and dark jedi became synonomous as the two intermingled. and as the sith spcies died out completely, and all that was left was dark jedi that followed the sith ideal, sith and dark jedi become synonomous terms.

but what i was mainly trying to point out, was that power wise, exar kun nearly succeeded in conquering the entire universe in open war. while palpatine achieved his domination through trickery and deceit. that was all i was attempting to point out, as it shows the difference in the particular strengths of the characters. in a lightsaber duel, kun would win. in the sheer power they commanded that is debatable. but that is also why i was ponting out the different approaches. kun decimated nearly the entire jedi council by himself in an attempt to free his apprentice. palpatine always relied on others to achive his goals.

so, there approaches to conquering the galaxy differed, and though palpatine succeeded and kun did not, this is really due to how they went about their plans, and not who was more pwoerful. i think kun would stomp a hole in just about anyone one on one.

as for the chosen one prophecy, i won't even get into that. if you wan't to call vader the chosen one, fine by me. that's debatable as well. after all qui-gon was renowned for huge flaws in judgement. but you could say he brought the force back into balance, as he cut the jedi numbers down to two as well.
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Old 02-02-2004, 03:42 AM   #65
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Alright, 2 quick things. First off, Palpatine conquers the galaxy by open war, but he sets up his war by deceit. You will see this in episode 3 when palpy's war starts as the clone wars end. And trying to compare EU to the films is crazy, so I will not debate any further as to who could beat who. Palpatine is meant to be the most powerful, simply because George Lucas designed it that way. And Vader/Anakin is the chosen one. I gave away some episode 3 spoilers about that, but that will be shown as well. When the chosen one (anakin) kills the dark lord (Sidious/palps), the apprentice (Vader/anakin) falls as well, thus restoring balance to the force. Its confusing and can be annoying to those who didn't think/want anakin to be the one, but he is. I am not here to worry about my opinions anymore, because those are different for everyone-but these are the facts as set by the films, so you cannot change that. And Palpatine will shor his full power in episode 3 as well. He will fight and kill jedi and MAJOR SPOILER, he will kick yoda's butt in a sabre duel and that is why yoda goes to hide because even he cannot contend with palpatine. And nobody helps him fight yoda (this is a rumor of course), palpatine does it himself. Power will be shown in Ep3.

Also, there were more than 2 jedi at the time of the original trilogy. Even Lucas has said that it was impossible for the sith to kill them all. But like yoda and obi wan, that doesnt matter because they were not really doing anything because they didn't want to die.


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Old 02-02-2004, 01:55 PM   #66
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And as a quick technicalaside just to be annoying, ther can be only two SITH, not only two dark jedi.

In the EU there are a lot of dark jedi, not to mention other traditions. The Sith just happen to be one of them. OK the most infamous one, but there are others. For example the Night Sisters. of Dathomir.
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Old 02-02-2004, 02:43 PM   #67
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I think ep 3 will either be a complete failure with too much "power show-off" or, an excellent end to the prequal series
This I do know though; ep 1 sucked pretty much overall cept in the end duel with maul and ep 2 was pretty anticlimax the whole movie thru although that is to be expected from a mid-movie.
Anyone know if Lucas really is going to stay to the claim that there will be no more SW movies or is he already planning sumthin(like one happening 4000 years earlier maybe? )


Fer all your KOTOR modding needs:
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Old 02-02-2004, 03:58 PM   #68
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Lucas indeed said that he will not make a new movie but i doubt it, because such a big success. I think maybe some 3-4 years after ep3 and he will make a new one
It can be like what happens after luke died....
Well i hope that.
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:29 PM   #69
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hi

does anyone think about made Exar Kun Double-Bladed Lightsaber?

It would be interesting to make an item like this but without bonus like 15000 critical damage or something else.

Just a Double-Bladed Lightsaber a little bit more powerful than the others because of its perfect manufacture.
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Old 02-02-2004, 05:34 PM   #70
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I loved all the star wars films equally, my favorite 2 (tied for first) are Episodes 2 and 6. I HOnestly think Episode 3 will be my all time favorite once it is done. It will have a LOT of action, but by what I have seen and read, it will be on par with the others (Depending on how much you liked each of the others, how good Ep3 is may differ) By the way, Episode 3 will have the LONGEST fight sequence in Cinematic history. This is the final duel between Anakin and Obi Wan and right now it is 12-13 minutes long according to Rick Macallum (Producer) and Nick Gillard (Stunt Coordinator) 12 minutes doesn't seem like too much until you actually compare it to the rest of the film-thats is a LONG fight.

Edit: Oh, by the way, LOTS OF rumors have been floating around about him making episodes 7, 8, and 9. Supposidly They have signed a few contracts involving it and when Mark Hamil (Luke Skywalker) asked Lucas if it was true or not, All Lucas would tell him is to wait and see and that if he did make them, Mark Hamil would come back as Luke Skywalker (And Hamil agreed that he would do it way back then the originals were made) So keep your fingers crossed.


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Old 02-02-2004, 07:45 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadevil
hi

does anyone think about made Exar Kun Double-Bladed Lightsaber?

It would be interesting to make an item like this but without bonus like 15000 critical damage or something else.

Just a Double-Bladed Lightsaber a little bit more powerful than the others because of its perfect manufacture.
I think the Mantle of the Force is supposed to be made from shards of Exar Kun's saber crystal.... at least that's what the description suggests...
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Old 02-03-2004, 01:15 AM   #72
Shimaon
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Hey, can someone let me know what the filename of Exar's Armor's texture is?

EDIT: nm, I got it

Last edited by Shimaon; 02-03-2004 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:05 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoL_Stryke


Edit: Oh, by the way, LOTS OF rumors have been floating around about him making episodes 7, 8, and 9. Supposidly They have signed a few contracts involving it and when Mark Hamil (Luke Skywalker) asked Lucas if it was true or not, All Lucas would tell him is to wait and see and that if he did make them, Mark Hamil would come back as Luke Skywalker (And Hamil agreed that he would do it way back then the originals were made) So keep your fingers crossed.
if there is a loving and caring god we will not let this happen there is too much EU content after episode 6 or if it does happen it will be like like that episode of South Park where Lucas and Spielberg re-do Raiders of The Lost Arc and the audience is destroyed due to the sheer horribleness of the new version
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:33 AM   #74
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as far as 7,8, and 9 are concerned, i read that he had sold away too many rights after the first trilogy, and thus could not make any more sequels due to the amount of history that had already been established.

and how can one say, this is this because lucas said so? Lucas didn't even know what a sith was when he called vader a sith in the first trilogy. it just sounded cool. the history of the sith was an afterhtought following the trilogy, and probably only involved lucas's nod of approval.

Lucas is not God. he cannot say let there be light, and see that it is good. he is human. and most of the star wars universe was NOT constructed by him.

as far as Palpatine is concerned, you could be very right. after all just because no one has seen him fight up until now, does not mean he is not extremely powerful. i just can't really say as i have never seen him fight.

as far as the Sith and Dark Jedi, i was merely stating that at the beggining when those initial jedi fell, and fled, or were driven away. they settled on the sith planet and the two groups intermingled into one, until basically they were one and the same.. it states this in-game if i remember correctly. well, then the sith race pretty much goes into extinction. but what happened before this, you have jedi who learn of sith magic and this leads them to the darkside which leads them to the sith homeworld, which brings the two goups together. so in a way the sith were the original dark jedi, and the original dark jedi were sith. then the race goes extinct. and all that is left of the sith is an ideal, that is followed by what.....dark jedi. so i say once again, the two terms are pretty much synonomous. if you are to be a true dark jedi, in some way you are following the sith ideal. and if all sith are in this day and age are followers of an ideal, then what would that make those who follow that ideal. Technically Sith.
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Old 02-03-2004, 03:25 AM   #75
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I never said Lucas was a God. But Lucas made up Star Wars, he approves the EU and he makes the films which are the ONLY things I take with more than a grain of salt. The EU is filled with too much crap and contradicts itself far too many times for me to buy into it all, so if Lucas says something goes, well he is right in my book since he made up Star Wars and he does in fact own the rights to it all. If he wanted to make 7,8, and 9 he could and nobody would stop him. Now I am not saying EU is total crap, because there are SOME good storylines like Exar Kun and the Sith wars and stuff. But I only consider the films canon, anything else is taken with a grain of salt as I said before. No offense, anyone who buys into the EU **over** the films is NOT a Star Wars fan, they are simply another Sci-Fi fanboy (or girl) who likes a book that may (or may not) be any good or have any relavance to the story it is based on. Now I apologize if I upset anyone, but it does get annoying when people try to take something that the films establish and simply discredit it for the Expanded Universe. The Films are the bottom line, if EU contradicts that, the film is correct-this is not like Lord of the Rings or something based off of a book, Star Wars is first and foremost comprised of the films. Discuss


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Old 02-03-2004, 05:26 AM   #76
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heh...

I've actually got a lot of arguments about this whole topic.. but I've also learned a long time ago that it's not generally worth the effort. Once this sort of debate begins, it pretty much winds up the same..

"well this is the way it is because..."
"well actually no, because so and so said...."

etc.. on and on. I've seen some interviews over the years which directly contradict a lot of what's been said through this little debate.. but considering they were merely bits and pieces which I personally happened to watch at the time, it's not like I can cite perfect references and quotes anymore. Some of this stuff goes back about 20 years after all.

Anyways.. I guess the real point to my posting this is to say that several of you might have to consider the option of agreeing to disagree. Of all the various times I've seen debates exactly like this one pop up, I've never yet seen everyone in agreement in the end, except by simply agreeing to stop arguing.

Meh.. just my 2 cents.. or at least, the only 2 I really feel like tossing into this mess right now, as I don't want to get swept up arguing my side of many of the points I've seen. lol

-Kitty


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Old 02-03-2004, 11:23 AM   #77
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Me I don't think Hamill would play Luke again very well, just look at the bloke he looks horrible like he's really gone down in life since the movies now he's like a little lucas-wannabe(he even changed from his famous pot to lucas beardy-style ).

Lucas did originally draw it out so Palpatine was to be the most powerful sith, just because Vader managed to do old-man toss with him dosn't make him less so as Vader was *pretty* strong too and caught him by surprise.
Oh and I've heard you'll see Palpy/Sid fighting Yoda in ep3, and Palpy winning(that's why Yoda goes into hiding). Sweet


Fer all your KOTOR modding needs:
http://www.sith-res.tk

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Old 02-03-2004, 12:53 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lil' Jawa
Me I don't think Hamill would play Luke again very well, just look at the bloke he looks horrible like he's really gone down in life since the movies now he's like a little lucas-wannabe(he even changed from his famous pot to lucas beardy-style ).

Lucas did originally draw it out so Palpatine was to be the most powerful sith, just because Vader managed to do old-man toss with him dosn't make him less so as Vader was *pretty* strong too and caught him by surprise.
Oh and I've heard you'll see Palpy/Sid fighting Yoda in ep3, and Palpy winning(that's why Yoda goes into hiding). Sweet
Yes, but he's also changed quite abit about the series. Let's see, Grand Moff Tarkin's no longer designed the Death Star. Anakin built C3-PO, etc...
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Old 02-03-2004, 02:25 PM   #79
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I am not arguing to get someone to change their opinion, I simply like debating the ideas behind the whole SW universe. I do not expect anyone to change what the think or know is true. I am just giving my spin.


"Never argue with a fool, for he could be doing the same."
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:28 PM   #80
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i completely agree with you in most of what you said. however, what bothers me about it is this.

Lucas sold the rights to other people. he approved storylines, that may or may not contradict his original plots and intentions. HE allowed these contradictions to be constructed. and did so merely in the interest of money. yes the movies SHOULD always be taken above anything else established. but my problem is that Lucas himself allowed these contradictions to exist.

and in the case of him being able to make 7 8 and 9 if he wanted to, i am notm sure i can agree there. when he sold the rights to the timeline after the first trilogy, he lost the legal rights to EVER contraduict anything established by the authors he sold those rights to. so, he could make 7 8 and 9 ONLY if he made his sequels adhere to the history he sold the rights to.

this isn't a good versus bad plotline issue. this is a legal issue arising from the rights lucas himself sold away.

and how that change of who designed the death star crept in i will never know.
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