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Old 02-04-2004, 12:15 AM   #81
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Hmm, I never heard that Tarkin was supposed to design the Deathstar. I personally liked that the Geonosian's designed it and a lot of the other Imperial gear as well. And of course the Kaminoans designed the other half was the future Imperial stuff, so it is interesting the way the belnding of those 2 cultures and designs came together to create the Empire. Even though it was an afterthought of Lucas', I think he did it quite well.


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Old 02-04-2004, 12:50 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by eidospsogos
i completely agree with you in most of what you said. however, what bothers me about it is this.

Lucas sold the rights to other people.
Well, that's not exactly true. Lucas didn't sell the rights, he still keeps them. A publisher negotiates a license agreement with Lucasfilm to write some books, but the rights of the story and characters belong to Lucasfilm (even the new ones). The publisher just gets the right to exploit these characters in some books for a limited period of time.

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he approved storylines, which may or may not contradict his original plots and intentions.
It's not Lucas who approves the storylines, it's the Production Editor of Lucasfilm Licensing Office (Lucas Licensing, LucasBooks or Lucas-whatever ) who has the last word. And yes, Lucas owns these companies, but I don't think that he is very involved in this stuff.

As far as I know, he is only consulted when a mayor character is involved (as it was done with 'the Chewie issue' in Vector Prime).

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HE allowed these contradictions to be constructed. and did so merely in the interest of money. yes the movies SHOULD always be taken above anything else established. but my problem is that Lucas himself allowed these contradictions to exist.
Certainly, but as you said, the movies are above everything else. The contradictions are allowed 'cause they don't care about them.

From a creator point of view, Lucas don't want to get his hands tied up because some spin-off books or comics. And from a business point of view, the UE is very profitable. So they let the UE be, with all his possible contradictions, and put the films on a higher 'layer'.

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[i]and in the case of him being able to make 7 8 and 9 if he wanted to, i am notm sure i can agree there. when he sold the rights to the timeline after the first trilogy, he lost the legal rights to EVER contraduict anything established by the authors he sold those rights to. so, he could make 7 8 and 9 ONLY if he made his sequels adhere to the history he sold the rights to.

this isn't a good versus bad plotline issue. this is a legal issue arising from the rights lucas himself sold away.[/B]
But that's not true. As I said above, Lucas owns ALL the Star Wars stuff (well, Lucasfilm owns it), even the ones created by other people. He owns Exar Kun, Kyp Durron, Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, .... It's not Lucas who sells his stuff, it's the writers who sell their creations to him.

And because all these characters and storylines belong to him, he has all the right to ignore them, or to rewrite them.

PS: If someone is interested in the process of writing a SW book, here is an article where Sue Rostoni, Production Editor of Lucasfilm, explain it (it's almost at the bottom of the page, in the section named 'IN DEPTH'). It's dated in 1994 but I'm sure that the things have not change very much since then.
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Old 02-04-2004, 01:24 AM   #83
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hmmm. interesting and nice to know. thanks for clearing all that up. i was unaware it worked that way. especially after all i had read regarding the difficulties he had writing the first three movies to work it in with history constructed by others, and the greater problems dealing with the original plan for the 7, 8 and 9 sequels. maybe he was just trying ti be nice in amking them fit. who knows. but thanks for the info.
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Old 02-04-2004, 12:11 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by BoL_Stryke
Hmm, I never heard that Tarkin was supposed to design the Deathstar. I personally liked that the Geonosian's designed it and a lot of the other Imperial gear as well. And of course the Kaminoans designed the other half was the future Imperial stuff, so it is interesting the way the belnding of those 2 cultures and designs came together to create the Empire. Even though it was an afterthought of Lucas', I think he did it quite well.
Oh, I don't have issues with it. I see SW as a work in progress myself. (Unlike some who throw a hairy fit over every little change.) But, I have played the PnP rog for some time now, and the original story line was that Tarkin had a think tank that designed most of the Empires toys. I.e. the Death Star, the AT-AT's, the command (or super) star destroyers.

Besides, if Lucas is willing to let us play in his backyard, I'm cool with it.
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Old 02-04-2004, 11:22 PM   #85
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well, i don't think a hairy fit should be thrown. you can't take a fictitious universe that seriously. but i do think it best to at least attempt to not establish contradictions within a created history of a universe. obviously with hundreds of different people contributing that cannot be completely avoided. but i think they should try alittle harder than they have been. i mean it could be worse, it could be the marvel comics universe. there is no way to take that universe seriously anymore. but i do not want to see the star wars universe turned into the jumbled up chaotic mess that is the marvel universe. especially if it's for the same reasons the marvel universe got so screwed up. money. "whoops looks like we killed a popular character, better find a way to bring them back whether it makes sense or not." i just think more care should be taken in approval of plotlines that could cast a shadow of doubt on the validity of the curently established history.
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Old 02-05-2004, 07:29 PM   #86
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The problem is I don't think that Lucas ever really planned for it to get this big. There are what? A couple of hundred books, at least a dozen or so comic books and one x-mas special that every one would rather forget. Not to mention Star Wars Droids, all the different computer games and pnp game.

That's a lot to keep track of, not to mention try to keep in as a cohesive whole. Lucas Arts could either be a bunch of total storm troopers and say everything has to be completely approved by them first.

This involves reading everything. Approving everything. Knowing exactly what Lucas himself wants. This would eventually take all of the creativity out of th SW universe. Bleah!

Or doing what they're doing, which is approving things as they go and trying to keep the timeline intact as much as possible. It leads to inconsistanseis (sp?) but allows for a great deal of creativity.

Myself, I prefer the latter option. Sure it means that the history gets revised every time you turn around, but at least authors and game creators are given free reign to create immersive stories. That's why kotor was so good.
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Old 02-06-2004, 09:49 AM   #87
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Personaly, I didn't like the second moive too much.

In my oppinion, Yoda should be all force, no saber fighting.

I mean, look at him...800 years old, knee high, OLD...
Sure, very wise, his longevity would allow him to master the Force better then anyone.

But seriously...swordfighting? He doesn't have the physical strength for something like that (and he has a shot lightsaber)
There's no way he could block attacks from someone 3 times his size.

I mean, if you gave the Rancor a lightsaber to match his size and sent him to fight Luke or Vader....sure...they could win...but they couldn't BLOCK his swings...


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Old 02-06-2004, 11:14 AM   #88
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Originally posted by Ellderon
Personaly, I didn't like the second moive too much.

In my oppinion, Yoda should be all force, no saber fighting.

I mean, look at him...800 years old, knee high, OLD...
Sure, very wise, his longevity would allow him to master the Force better then anyone.

But seriously...swordfighting? He doesn't have the physical strength for something like that (and he has a shot lightsaber)
There's no way he could block attacks from someone 3 times his size.

I mean, if you gave the Rancor a lightsaber to match his size and sent him to fight Luke or Vader....sure...they could win...but they couldn't BLOCK his swings...
Yeah, it's kind of like having a player say I want to parry the great wyrm red dragon's bite.

DM: Umm, dude, it's like big enough to eat you and your horse without chewing. How are you going to parry it?

Player: With my short sword!

DM: Um ... ok. That fails miserably.

Player: You are so unfair! I'm never playing with you again!
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Old 02-06-2004, 11:23 AM   #89
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1. Size means nothing... Granted.. the Yoda bit was a bit over the top, but honestly... it makes no difference if you're 400 lbs or 130. It's all in what you know how to do with it. And... we have to bear in mind that these are all beings who command the force. That tends to change the rules in ways that (presumably) we cannot even immagine. It'd be like if you watched first hand as some 120 lb "wimp" beat up the school bully by doing nothing other than pointing at him... The force moves those who understand and wield it in ways that those of us who cannot command it can't even begin to guess at.

Also, Yoda isn't *quite* so old in the prequels.. but that's another ball of wax..


2... And this will probably meet with a lot of crap.. but I've bitten my tongue too long.

I've seen interviews with Lucas.. at first, he DID try to control every last aspect of the SW universe. If you look back, you'll find that there were very few "add ons" to the EU back then. He HAD to have the final say in everything. Recently, he's relaxed that posture (note.. recently means about the last 15 years give or take...) He's only making himself richer by doing so.

But anyways... the way he told it in the interview I saw was that he had this whole thing planned (within reason).. but was unable to sell the screenplay for EP 1... He instead managed to sell the idea for EP 4, hence the first movie. But as I understand it.. the whole plot was (more or less) laid out and set down. Yes, he's made adaptations and changes as needed, but basically it all stil follows the pattern he laid out 20+ years ago.

Maybe I'm wrong... though if I am, he lied straight to the cameras... and even if that's the case.. he's a damn genius. No one has ever built somehting completely made up into what it's become today. I mean.. you can NOT say the words "Star wars" and have anyone say, "huh?" EVERYONE knows what you're talking about. So who cares if this matches that and if X is perfectly in line with Y.... It's a very cool fantasy universe, and he's rich as hell.. and laughing his way to the bank regardless of whether or not book Z follows the perfect plot or not eh?

-Kitty

*edit - spelling error =p*


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Old 02-06-2004, 06:25 PM   #90
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Well that was a drawn out and boring read...

So how is the retexturing coming along?

Jolinar
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Old 02-06-2004, 06:42 PM   #91
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Granted that the Force can boost his strenght, but Dooku allso uses the Force. so if let's say it increases their strenghth by a factor of 10, Dooku would still clober Yoda, for he had greater strenghth to begin with...

lord_blodgett: LOL



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Old 02-07-2004, 02:03 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ellderon
Granted that the Force can boost his strenght, but Dooku allso uses the Force. so if let's say it increases their strenghth by a factor of 10, Dooku would still clober Yoda, for he had greater strenghth to begin with...

lord_blodgett: LOL

In my opinion, its kinda like this:
Yoda's species, whatever that is, appears only to become "old" within the last 5-10 years of their life, thus, in essence, Yoda was in his prime in Ep 2. Dooku, however, is a relatively old human, thus, their strengths are nearly equal, and Yoda's command with the force helps quite a bit.
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Old 02-09-2004, 12:10 AM   #93
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what defines your prime when you live over 900 years?
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Old 02-10-2004, 12:50 AM   #94
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^^ Good point Exar.

My thing is that the Force wouldn't increase Dooku's and Yoda's physical skill by an equal amount. Yoda is much more skilled with the Force, thus the Force would increase his strength by a greater factor, correct?

So say Dooku gets a Force factor of 10. Yoda might have a Force factor of 15 or more. Thus, Yoda might be much more powerful, or equally as strong.


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Old 02-10-2004, 01:01 PM   #95
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Originally posted by F-Bomb
^^ Good point Exar.

My thing is that the Force wouldn't increase Dooku's and Yoda's physical skill by an equal amount. Yoda is much more skilled with the Force, thus the Force would increase his strength by a greater factor, correct?

So say Dooku gets a Force factor of 10. Yoda might have a Force factor of 15 or more. Thus, Yoda might be much more powerful, or equally as strong.
"It's not what ya got it's how ya use it."

The Dragonball series deals with this all the time. Yoda could, in theory, use the Force to buff his stats to keep up with a younger, stronger, and let's not forget, faster force user. He definitely would have experience on his side.

Or as the old saying goes "Old and sneaky beats young and brash any day"
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Old 02-10-2004, 07:47 PM   #96
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the same would happen when obione would kick anakin ass in the lava.The latter fight in death star do not apply since obione have not intention to live.
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Old 02-10-2004, 08:39 PM   #97
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^^it was his intent to loose that fight he didn't actually try he wanted vader to kill him
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:01 AM   #98
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c'mon ppl

hey dudes,

look to argue about exar is pointless unless u hv read all things related to him eg comics/novels/extracts etc.

anything else u want to know eg the 'truth' go ask the star wars personnel for heavens sake.

notes: kun did not decimate the entire jedi council to free ulic, that was the republic grand council; he only killed his master vodo siosk baas.

kun's dual saber was different to the kotor ones; note esp the hilt which is much shorter.

that avatar of eidospsogos, i believe was ulic qel droma not kun, who had long braided hair. that episode was also pretty much on ulic.

exar was notably one of the most powerful dark lords (not merely sith lord if u've read ur stuff). certainly better than anyone else after him. kun was also one of the more calculating types; he did not declare open war on the republic; that was ulic who had to 'prove his manhood'. kun sought greater planning. the debacle at coruscant lowered republic morale. the destruction of the jedi library on ossus was another calculated maneuveur. he lost essentially becos of ulic qel droma.

kun may very well hv been one of the greatest swordsman of that time, but so was ulic 'both were master swordsman'

even if not advented at that time, kun essentially followed the one master, one apprentice rule with him as dark lord n ulic as apprentice as so marked by the apparition of markos ragnos. sith may be dark jedi but dark jedi r not necessarily sith lords. that is common sense to anyone who hv read the star wars universe well enough.

geez....im getting a headache listening to all these comments from underknowledged ppl. pls research properly b4 making groundless statements.


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