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Old 03-19-2004, 10:36 AM   #81
FroZticles
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Leave them seperate Naboo only joined Gungans in that one battle nothing else. The Gungans were only bought into the senate as a royal commitee with Jar Jar representing the Gungans in that commitee they Naboo did not get control over Gungan military and Gungans did not get control over Naboo military. So they are 2 seperate and by no means should be one. Its like 2 countries on the same planet you don't see the US joining forces with Iraqi extremest now do you.
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Old 03-19-2004, 01:54 PM   #82
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I did it not for realism reasons, but for gameplay reasons. The current number is jut too high, and people would complain if the naboo and the gungans were left out entirely, so it was best to just combine them. It also circumnavigates the problem of gungan air or naboo heavies that look completely stupid.


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Old 03-19-2004, 02:10 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
Leave them seperate Naboo only joined Gungans in that one battle nothing else. The Gungans were only bought into the senate as a royal commitee with Jar Jar representing the Gungans in that commitee they Naboo did not get control over Gungan military and Gungans did not get control over Naboo military. So they are 2 seperate and by no means should be one. Its like 2 countries on the same planet you don't see the US joining forces with Iraqi extremest now do you.
and you know all of this exactly how? There is absolutely no evidence to support what you just said, in fact the evidence points to the opposite conclusion. Also, your analogy of the US and Iraqi Extremists is way, way, way out of the ball park. Anyway, the reason i chose to merge the Royal Naboo and Gungans are-

1. It allowed me to add another civ to the game (Hutts) without removing 'essential' civs.

2. It is representative of the alliance on Naboo seen at the end of Ep1, and witnessed by both a Royal Naboo and Gungan representing Naboo in the Senate.

3. As Sith said, it removed the problem of having having Naboo mechs and Gungan aircraft. In addition, the two civs actually blend well in all respects, with the Gungans providing Heavy Infantry with the Royal Naboo providing supporting strike mechs and aircraft.

4. Logically, both the Royal Naboo and Gungans would have seen after the events of Ep1 that neither could defend their planet by themselves, and so would have at least begun co-ordinating their forces in the event of planetary attack, particually with the outbreak of the Clone War.


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Old 03-20-2004, 11:09 AM   #84
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Yes I do have evidence.....

If you have ever bothered to play SWG which I take it you haven't since you never play games online and think you know what is best for the "windu" ohhhh sorry I mean the public. The you would know after the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire the Naboo government and military crumbled. The gungans howver did not there military still stands and there leaders are still on Naboo. And if this merger ever took place which you have no evidence it ever did except the parade at the end of episode 1 which you assume that is a merger but you make sure I can provide some.

1)Thinking about a Hutt civ just shows how clueless you are.

2) Gungan and Naboo senators Padme and Jar Jar were in the royal commitee Padme represting naboo and jar jar gungans if they were merged into 1 there would only be need for 1 there not both.

3)Naboo and Gungans blending well in all aspects is the problem Gungans good ships,mech,troops Naboo good air,jedi,economy where the weakness?

4) Naboo defended itself quite well. If they did not have the aircraft power to shut off the droids then the Gungan army would have ment nothing. The Clone Army protects the Republic including Naboo which is apart of it so there is the security so a Gungan merger is not required. You think after hundreds of years of isolation from the outside world the Gungans will just let the Naboo enlist there troops......
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Old 03-20-2004, 11:59 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
Yes I do have evidence.....

If you have ever bothered to play SWG which I take it you haven't since you never play games online and think you know what is best for the "windu" ohhhh sorry I mean the public. The you would know after the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire the Naboo government and military crumbled. The gungans howver did not there military still stands and there leaders are still on Naboo. And if this merger ever took place which you have no evidence it ever did except the parade at the end of episode 1 which you assume that is a merger but you make sure I can provide some.

1)Thinking about a Hutt civ just shows how clueless you are.

2) Gungan and Naboo senators Padme and Jar Jar were in the royal commitee Padme represting naboo and jar jar gungans if they were merged into 1 there would only be need for 1 there not both.

3)Naboo and Gungans blending well in all aspects is the problem Gungans good ships,mech,troops Naboo good air,jedi,economy where the weakness?

4) Naboo defended itself quite well. If they did not have the aircraft power to shut off the droids then the Gungan army would have ment nothing. The Clone Army protects the Republic including Naboo which is apart of it so there is the security so a Gungan merger is not required. You think after hundreds of years of isolation from the outside world the Gungans will just let the Naboo enlist there troops......
LOL you are using SWG to justify your position?!?! Getting back from lmao, SWG is completely EU, whereas i take my evidence from the films.

1. This is completely irrelevant to the point

2. Your grammer is pretty bad, but i think you mean there would only be one representative if they were merged? Not true. There are two representatives, with Padme being superior, to represent both peoples. Remember, the races havent merged, they've become friends/allies with resulting co-operation

3. They are weak in terms of siege and heavy weapons. Unlike the Empire, with the AT-AT, and the Republics SPHA-T, the Naboo's heavy mechs are infantry support units, rather than weapons unto themselves

4. Uh...they were defeated. You did watch TPM right? Panaka says at the beginning 'we have no army', and later, Qui-Gon says 'the weapons on your fighters might not be strong enough to penetrate their shields'. The only reason the fighters were successful was because of Anakin (which is the whole point of that sequence). Also, i never said that the Royal Naboo would 'enlist' gungan soldiers, just that they would TRAIN them - big difference.


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Old 03-21-2004, 10:43 AM   #86
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1)Its definately alot more evidence then what you have based on speculation which you think happened after ep 1. Everything that goes in SWG goes through lucas first if he doesn't approve of things they don't get added. This coming from someone who wants Hutts as a civ..........


3) Gungans have great seige the catapult, large creatures firing there electro balls. Naboo has air bombers they could be seige.


4)Yea Windu they were really defeated thats why the doid control ship was blow up along with some of the Trade Federation commanding officers. This isn't another CtW game Windu just because Theed was taken does not mean the Battle is over. And on this point you totallly took it and turned it into something it's not.
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:39 PM   #87
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We don't enlist them, we just "train" them lol. Let riflemen teach gungans how to use slingers! lol


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Old 03-21-2004, 09:00 PM   #88
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Froz - although I'm taking your side I should clear some of your points up:

Nothing on SWG goes through George Lucas personally, just like all EU.

While the Gungans do have good seige weapons in the catapult, in the movies they do not have large creatures firing electroballs, and the Naboo do not have bombers.


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Old 03-22-2004, 04:06 AM   #89
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I know they don't have those units I'm jsut throwing things out no civ can be balanced with canon units its impossible.
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Old 03-22-2004, 05:36 AM   #90
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FroZ - and the whole reason the Gungans dont have 'big creatures that shoot balls' and the Royal Naboo dont have bombers is because siege is their weakness. They are great and some things, and suck at others - which is pretty much the whole point of balancing.

As for the defeat of the Naboo - Theed was taken, the Queen was captured, and Otah Gunga was made into a ghost town - yeah, and 'we are in complete control of the planet now' - yeah, doesnt sound like they were defeated does it?


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Old 03-22-2004, 08:42 AM   #91
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Theed was taken The Queen was captured for what 10 mins? She escaped and took her planet back didn't she, that does not sound like defeat to me.
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Old 03-22-2004, 03:22 PM   #92
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If the Naboo were defeated, Windu, how were they able to overthrow the Federation and claim their planet back?


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Old 03-22-2004, 07:51 PM   #93
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He's yet again talking about real life wars...


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Old 03-23-2004, 09:17 AM   #94
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Vostok - the Naboo WERE defeated, because their governmental, economic etc installations and their people were captured by the Trade Federation. Although the Queen escaped and re-took Naboo, you have to remember that she RE-TOOK Naboo. Hence, to re-take something, it must have been taken from you.

As a real life example, take Yugoslavia in WW2. This area was conquered by the Germans rather quickly, but Tito and other leaders resisted the invasion and eventually regained control of their country. The fact is, though, that it was captured by the Germans. Same goes for the Naboo (except no Germans).


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Old 03-23-2004, 10:40 AM   #95
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Windu we don't want your real life examples they have nothing to do with Star Wars at all.

Winning a battle is far from winning the war, Naboo knew they were gonna get it back eventually the Trade Federation's acts were completely illegal. But the Queen did not want to risk her people for a commitee to investigate the matter so she took matters into her own hands.
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:48 PM   #96
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Exactly. The Naboo were invaded, not defeated. I would call defeat the inability to fight back.


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Old 03-24-2004, 08:00 AM   #97
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When another power has complete and utter control of your people and possetions, i would call that being defeated.

Anyway, Naboo WAS defeated, it's just that some of the people refused to accept that. That doesnt change the fact that the Federation had control of the planet, and had hence defeated the Naboo.


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Old 03-24-2004, 09:54 AM   #98
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Not just people the friggin Queen didn't accept that and took what is rightfully hers back. Just admit Windu they were not defeated.
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Old 03-24-2004, 11:33 AM   #99
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Forzo - first of all, i didnt say 'people', i said 'the people' - there's a difference.

As for Amidala, so what? Here government had collapsed and she fled to Coruscant (kinda sounds like the Netherlands in WW2 doesnt it...).

Just because a ruler escapes doesnt mean the country hasnt fallen. Just accept that Naboo fell and was then re-taken.


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Old 03-24-2004, 04:45 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
As a real life example, take Yugoslavia in WW2. This area was conquered by the Germans rather quickly, but Tito and other leaders resisted the invasion and eventually regained control of their country. The fact is, though, that it was captured by the Germans. Same goes for the Naboo (except no Germans).
I could poke so many holes in that, but this forum is about Star Wars.

My opinion is that Naboo and Gungans shouldn't be combined. I don't have any particular reason for that, it just seems wrong.

However, if you must combine them, it would be entirely possible to make it a balanced civ without contradicting canon too much. So what's this argument about? Er, sounds like nothing to me...
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Old 03-24-2004, 07:30 PM   #101
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Yes, quite right saberhagen. It's an argument on semantics. Put the argument about whether Naboo was defeated or not as the stupidest argument to ever take up this many posts on this forum.


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Old 03-24-2004, 11:21 PM   #102
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Exactly it's very stupid but what else can come out of his stupid ideas?. Something great I don't think so.
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:54 AM   #103
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once again, left with nothing intelligent to say, forzo resorts to personal insults. How sad...

As for wether the Naboo were defeated or not, i agree, it has no relevance, and we should be discussing the relative merits of combining the Gungans and Royal Naboo.


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Old 03-25-2004, 01:48 AM   #104
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i cant beleive yall are arging over whether naboo was defeated...


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Old 03-25-2004, 02:02 AM   #105
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This is by far not the stupidest thread ever posted. *Republic Gunship Thread* Shudder*....


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Old 03-25-2004, 05:25 AM   #106
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Yea it does seem that the top 5 dumbest post all with the author named Windu anyone surprised???
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Old 03-25-2004, 09:32 PM   #107
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froz - i too am sensing the barrage of personal insults, but since they dont include me or offend me i will blindly ignore them as if they never happened...


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Old 03-26-2004, 02:25 AM   #108
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Nitro I'm still waiting for you to make a post with a point and some logic behind but I'm still waiting.....
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:45 AM   #109
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Now now kids behave. Froz for flinguing insults and Nitro for jumping in and taking a bullet for nothing.

This thread is dead and let it die.


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Old 03-26-2004, 03:37 AM   #110
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<plays taps>


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Old 03-26-2004, 04:41 PM   #111
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Froz - actually Nitro was the author of this thread.

Nitro - I meant no offence by saying this thread belongs to you, just that Froz is wrong in blaming Windu.

Windu - actually shouldn't we be discussing the Naboo-Gungan merger in the Naboo-Gungan thread?


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Old 03-26-2004, 11:24 PM   #112
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Well we were until Windu started going on about Naboo and Gungan merger just after the Battle of Naboo and it went from there.
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Old 03-26-2004, 11:37 PM   #113
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Windu, you are shooting yourself in your foot by suggesting that the naboo need to be merged with the gungans so that the Hutts can move in. Nobody, except you and Nitro, support them. So give up already. And quit with the history lessons. And don't insult Holland.

Naboo wasn't defeated, they were losing, but far from defeated.

I support merging them out of necessity. Its either they're both cut or they're merged, cause even 6 civs is a little too big for uniqueness and balance. Now, having said that, I think that my idea addresses some of the main problems presented by various people. If they are kept separate, but under one leadership, it stays relatively canon, and a good comprimise between Windu's absurd complete merger and the complete separation, which really cannot happen because of gameplay complications. It also gives them a definite weakness, aside from lacking heavy mechs and decent troops until later. That is logistics, the forced coordination between two baes. If you expand mostly your gungan areas and your enemy comes at you with massed troops, you are screwed. Big time.

Vostok-thats cause the Naboo/Gungan forum is discussing the Hutts.


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Old 03-26-2004, 11:47 PM   #114
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Sith - no-one here has convinced me yet of a good reason as to why the Hutt Cartel shouldnt be in. Nor has anyone sugested a replacement for them, so where is the motivation in my removing them?

As for the Naboo, they were defeated. Accept it. Move on with your life.

Finally, with Holland, dont EVER think that you can tell me what i can or cannot say about Holland. My oma suffered in Holland under the Nazi's, and my mother is dutch as well.


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Old 03-27-2004, 12:32 AM   #115
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Windu, it took more than 17 pages, 600 posts, and countless personal insults to "prove" to you that your gunship idea was bad (something that I don't think you actually have stated publicly though), so people have given up on "proving" things to you. Its liek talknig to a brick wall. As long as we hae a forum-wide consensus minus Windu, its a consensus.

EDIT: My Opa suffered under Nazi rule there too, and my mother is dutch as well.


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Old 03-27-2004, 12:35 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Sith - no-one here has convinced me yet of a good reason as to why the Hutt Cartel shouldnt be in. Nor has anyone sugested a replacement for them, so where is the motivation in my removing them?
That's because you never listen to anybody else then you. If we disagree, you end up with "I'm right, you're not" arguments. We've come up with various reasons why they shouldn't be in and the only answer you can give us is "prove it"...

Why do we need a replacement? Less Civs means better balance. BALANCE!
I used to believe myself that we could possibly balance 8 unique civs but now it seems too hard for nothing.


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Old 03-27-2004, 01:23 AM   #117
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Exactly, Windu. Perhaps no one has convinced you because in the your entire history on this forum, which is almost two years now, you've only ever changed your mind - been "convinced" - twice. Stop coming back with childish retorts like "PROVE IT" and accept that our arguments are entirely valid.

I'll put the items that should convince you in point form, for ease of reading:

The Hutts are most closely associated with underground crime sydicates like the Mafia in our world. As such they don't march to war, they fight in underhanded, secretive ways. Therefore including them in a game all about marching to war is wrong.

They don't need a replacement because eight totally unique civs is twice as much as anyone has successfully accomplished. Six is the best we can hope for, even that is pushing it.


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