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Old 03-14-2004, 03:33 AM   #81
[ONE]Mushroom
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Bugs
===




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# CRASH BUG When using basejka_pushfix mod, the server crashes when the Jedi attempt to break out. This happened three times out of three tests. The console gives the error message:
Code:
TARGET PRINT ERRORS:
activator classname: player
print targetname: escape
*******************
ERROR: target_print used in quick succession, fix it! See the console for details.
********************
Sending heartbeat to masterjk3.ravensoft.com
Sending heartbeat to masterjk3.ravensoft.com
ShutdownGame:
------------------------------------------------------------
DROPPED
Pushfix is a very simple mod, compiled with gcc, so
I fear that any (Linux) user mod will cause a crash here.

# Sith get the "The Jedi are hacking upper/lower entry to the h" message when a Sith walks through the door

# In the Star Wars universe, hacking is called slicing

# When the Sith deactivate the bridge, the message says that the bridge has been activated. It would be nice to know whether it has been extended or retracted.

# No message for Jedi when ffield over cells is reactivated

# When Sith reactivate cell ffield, the message to the Sith is "The Jedi have broken out of the cell block"

# Falling onto the switch room floor gives the fade out death fall effect (classname trigger_hurt, damage -1). Inappropriate?

# Is it possible to get the rocket launcher? There is a fade out death fall trigger in the way if you try to jump from the below the main door to the hall (and it is otherwise possible to make that jump)

# By the tractor beam power nodes, there is a cushion on only one side. Falling the wrong side can result in death.

# Once a player has entered Anakin's custom JSF, it seems impossible to leave it again

Minor Flaws (debatable)
=================

# The front door to the castle does not open for the Sith - it needs to be either hacked or pushed up.

# There is no message when the Jedi slice Vader's meditation chamber

# It is possible to call lifts back to the top while they are still descending, allowing defenders to hog lifts

# Lower level lava above catacombs is fatal when raised, and non fatal when drained. Inconsistent.

Gameplay
=======

# Getting a full game going requires at least 6 ppl who know the map - and this map seems much harder to learn than Raven's. It takes over a minute to get from the top of the tower to the main hall, assuming no wrong turns.

# It is, in general, too easy to die all on your own. Experienced JK players (not me ) should not be left on -16 points.

# All (afaics) the lifts drop faster than players fall, making them very dangerous - walk onto one (or jump, or get shot) just after it starts to descend and die.

# Fall damage is (too?) high, although it is possible to drop long distances using Protect.

# The catacombs leading to the holocron are dangerous even without no force regen and ppl trying to kill you. It is also quite a long way to take the holocron. I personally would rather the holocron not drain force.

# Getting through the sickbay can be annoying (esp. with no force regen or <level 3 jump) with 2 lifts to the lower floor and 1 to the perimeter walkway from the switch room.

Suggestions
=========

# Include a walkthrough demo in the pk3 to make it easier to learn

# Add ceilings to the lifts (i.e. make them enclosed rather than a platform) so Sith cannot drop explosives on the heads of climbing Jedi (Protect can work though)

# Make the castle simpler by removing an upper floor (e.g. lose Mothma's head room and use the meeting room instead for transmission), and use the space to spread out the switch room.

# Provide an exterior, non lift route up the castle, at least from below the switch room to above, e.g. ledges on the castle walls. Maybe make it exposed to the turbolasers.

# Provide lifts to go from the sickbay floor to the sickbay perimeter walkway

# Do not allow the Sith to reactivate the ffield over the cells. This can annoy people.

# In the power node area, put a small ledge around the edge of the interior wall so ppl can walk through the windows to the nodes outside. Jumping, ducking, rolling through the window is too common a mistake and always fatal.

Last edited by Kurgan; 05-05-2004 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 03-14-2004, 03:39 AM   #82
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Pahricida - there are a number of custom pk3s on the server, but they should not stop you joining. We seem to have no trouble in getting random people on. JA can be unreliable sometimes. All I can suggest is that you restart JA and try again.

I'll change the configs to remove the max ping limit when Bast Castle is on.
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:53 PM   #83
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Post Great Stuff!

Keep it coming!
One more week of testing... Then I'll rework the map, so get those suggestions in!


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Old 03-15-2004, 10:45 PM   #84
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Note: Only those testers who actually post feedback in this forum will receive testing credit - just trying to encourage you all!


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Old 03-16-2004, 06:06 PM   #85
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Need More Feedback!

I've started to implement some of the changes requested & to look at solutions to some of the other problems.
Am working to make progression through the map slightly more linear... (At least initially). So once you've completed an area there won't be any need to return there.
Also will combine the observation deck with the conference room.
There is now a ramp leading directly down from the sith shuttle into the main hall and I've removed the side ramps that used to be the way in.
Working on a way to make the hanger a less redundant area.
Also looking at a way to rework the medical center a bit.

Since no-one seems keen on the Sith Holocron, I'm looking at making that objective slightly different.

Will probably move the power room down a floor and remove the floor, so it'll be just one long drop down into the lava. Aieeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Not sure what to do about the problem with the lifts.

As for the tractor beam nodes, I'm hoping to make them destructable in some form or other.

Lava will now be drained from a switch elsewhere in the castle in order to make progression more obvious.

Sith spawn points will be activated for every objective "activated" and deactivated when that objective is "completed".

Lifts will be marked with up or down "Switches" - objective lifts will have a red frame (ala the locked door to Darth Vader's chamber)

The fuel pipe objective will be moved into the catacombs...

I've had lots of ideas on how to improve things just that little bit more and streamline gameplay a bit. There are still many problems to solve though and some game-engine restrictions I just can't get around (Such as the limit on the # of function brushes - which is why the lifts are just a single platform)


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Old 03-16-2004, 07:20 PM   #86
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I definitely would agree with the game play being alot more linear. I felt really ackward running around in a test game with 6 people--having no idea where or what to go to next.

A small question: Does the sith statue near the destroyable wall (on the laval level) have any real purpose?
Also, where is this sith holocron; suppose I haven't found it yet..




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Old 03-16-2004, 08:26 PM   #87
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The Sith Holocron is the little pyramid shaped thing you pick up in the sith catacombs in front of the statue and carry up to the little room in the middle of the laboratory - it seems this objective is a bit too obscure for everyone and no-one likes the fact that while holding the holocron, your force power regenerates VERY slowly...
I don't have trouble with it (Don't do flip jumps and you won't use up your force energy!) - but then I made the map!

Don't forget to press "o" (default key) to check your objectives on the map and which ones have been done - it'll help you find your way.

Also I'm intending to make it so the bridge controls are smashed and you'll have to use the emergency ones by climbing about halfway up the pipes below the landing platform to the emergency control panel and thus extending the bridge to the shuttle. This should be the last objective to complete, next to getting in the shuttle - and will trigger all the sith spawn points to move to the landing field.

Now what I'd like to know - Are any of the Characters/Classes to overpowered/Underpowerd?


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Old 03-17-2004, 11:50 AM   #88
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You can change default speed i think (well it does say speed: 1.00) perhaps a bit faster for the scout (it is a scout after all) like 1.20

Because the rebels have to work from the bottom till the top; demolitia are automaticly more important (remember Korriban, it was impossible first to get trough when the demolitia would spam the stairs. Now it's even upwards) I'd put the demolitia speed down, and this one will take testing with many players: disable push/pull so they cant push weapons back the light jedi pushed to them. Might fix the lift problem (Any thoughts of more ways leading to that room?)


Very nice changes monsoon, no reason to stay at objectives+ spread the objectives more...though bear in mind that the more you spread them, the more the 'minimum players count" increases (you cant defend 2 goals and make sure htey dont get 5 others if you get what i mean)
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:01 PM   #89
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Arrow

I'm going to try and sequence the goals a bit more - so that completing one goal unlocks the next one, though I still want to keep it as non-linear as possible!!!
Have so far reworked the catacombs a bit (Gantrys above lava and fuel pipe switch) and have moved the power/switch room down so the lowest floor is now level with the gantry leading out to the turbo laser tower. (Thus taking out one floor)
There are now three "vents" above the hanger, which when opened, lead down onto the three extended catwalks on the top level of the hanger (The little platforms by the Tie Fighter).

Still a fair ammount of work to do and everything is in flux - so I really need some more feedback/suggestions on the whole thing.

NB: The Sith Noghri has now force powers but a speed of 2.0 and heavy melee.


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Old 03-18-2004, 03:39 PM   #90
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Quote:
# Once a player has entered Anakin's custom JSF, it seems impossible to leave it again

mst, use this anakinjsf>
http://www.r-on3.com/other/anakinjsf.pk3
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Old 03-18-2004, 05:20 PM   #91
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I think the force holocron objective is fine (I'm using Monsoon's technique) so I don't tink it a must to be taken off. It might be because I haven't tried it with other players yet though. But I think it's more of a challenge. The only thing I would change is the regeneration speed, maybe a little faster would be better.


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Old 03-18-2004, 06:19 PM   #92
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I'm not certain I can change the force regen speed. The effect is either on or off I think. I used to have it off - but then it was too easy and didn't seem like much of a challenge.

Will post some screenshots of some of the changes soon.

I've decided to lower the small turbo lasers down a bit so they can shoot at more stuff. (Since they can't point down).

Will try the jsf you suggested Neo-Knight - though until tested, not sure if it will make a difference.


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Old 03-19-2004, 04:03 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by monsoontide
I've decided to lower the small turbo lasers down a bit so they can shoot at more stuff. (Since they can't point down).
Will you make there lasers a little weaker in that case?
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Old 03-19-2004, 07:02 PM   #94
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I may do that, but the whole point with the lasers is to turn them off, so they no longer pose such a threat!

I'm altering the Sith Holocron objective (Pray I don't alter it any further ) So that Instead of taking it from the Catacombs to the lab, you will now take it from the Lab (Where it is being analysed by the Sith) to the catacombs (Where you will now destroy it in the flames). It just makes the gameplay flow a little better.

Also - I'm changing the tractor beam objective. It will now be the four nodes will have to be activated to drain the lava, thus unlocking the sith catacombs (for completion of holocron objective) and fuel pipe/refueling objective.
Also the switch to extend the bridge and now to unlock the Castle's Main Gate is located on a gantry halfway up the landing pad (i.e. you will now HAVE to climb up along the pipes leading from the pump station to get to the switch.

I've managed to get it so the Mon Mothma hologram now appears when that objective is completed.

If this all sounds a bit confusing it won't be.
It basically just means that some of the objectives now have to be completed in a specific order, making things a bit more focused for the players.


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Old 03-19-2004, 08:48 PM   #95
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sounds awesome monsoontide! You fixed a lot of gameplay issues there.. suggestion, perhaps some signs at the place?
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Old 03-22-2004, 04:17 AM   #96
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Thanks for the feedback.
Today is the end of the first beta test.
I've already started incorporating many of the ideas and suggestions you have suggested.



This is where the switch is now located to extend the bridge. (Which you now have to do in order to get to the Jedi shuttle landing pad)





The newly remodeled switch room/power core, now moved down a level so it's part of the main shaft. Only two switches here now - Open door to turbo laser towwer, and open door to Vader's chamber. (Incomplete - still working on it)



The newly remodeled sith catacombs location for the jedi to destroy the Sith Holocron. You have to force push the big rock aside to open the pit to destroy the holocron.


Monsoontide

Last edited by monsoontide; 03-22-2004 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 03-22-2004, 04:21 AM   #97
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The newly reconstructed laboratory level. The lift leading down to this level now has a blue door frame. Here you will pick up the holocron to take down to the firepit for destruction...







But first you must deactivate the spinning rings by destroying the power nodes (Which currently have the old objective text - hence the tractor beam mention)





Picking up the holocron will now set of the pumps to drain the lava well, at the bottom of which is now located the switch to extend the refueling pipe.



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Old 03-22-2004, 04:30 AM   #98
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After escaping the cell block, the Jedi team will now break into the hanger via three vents...





The new ramp into the castle's main hall from the SIth Shuttle landing pad.



Plus a whole host of other changes, including Mon Mothma now appearing and speaking after triggering the objective (Rather than her being on all the time), new spawning points and a generally more focused gameplay experience.

Still lots to do though, so it will be up to two weeks before the final BETA.

Anyone still interested can let me know if they want a look at the final beta before release.


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Old 03-22-2004, 03:21 PM   #99
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Awesome changes! Though one question, you have to destroy a holocron in a substance that's in that pit, but also all around the map? (outside, and inside with the lava pit) doesnt make much sense..it should be more hot in there (or just made there) like LOTR

Though since this is an "all objectives in one" map (you can do all obj at a time) and the objectives are now thank god spread out, what do you guess for now is the min. playercount?
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Old 03-22-2004, 04:39 PM   #100
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I'll test the final BETA, this map is cool and I want to see all the new changes!


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Old 03-24-2004, 05:10 PM   #101
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OK... the hologram globe of endor now rotates (slowly)!
(Just have to try and rework the shader a bit, so I can remove a couple of brushes.)

Having a few problems getting my func_rotating rings to stop when triggered - they just keep going... Any ideas on a solution? Ford Dye at Raven suggested using a script to replace (swap out) the rings with non moving version but I have no idea how to do this.

Added some small lifts in the medical center between the top and lower levels. Not 100% happy with them at the moment so will rework them a bit, but they are there now!

Started setting up all the spawn points, so as the Jedi make progress throughout the level, the Sith spawn points will move to take account of this.

Worked out a couple of smaller errors and just busy working on finalizing a few things here and there.


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Old 03-25-2004, 03:36 AM   #102
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well those changes sound good mons
the few times that ive been on jka these past weeks i havent found 1 of the 3 servers online or with this map running, which kind of annoys me becuase ive really wanted to help more than what id said b4 i played te map
btw will u be doing a second round of beta testing with the updates?
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Old 03-25-2004, 03:29 PM   #103
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Well I only gotto beta testthemap one time with Pahricida, most of the problems that I noticed were mentoned or fixed already. I would like to give it a Full test with more then one person to offer my suggestions and opinions. If I dont get the chance it was a great opprotunity to beta this map for you. One of the reasons I havent been on much was due to remodeling around the house and waiting for my ALIENWARE to arrive woot woot. So all is well and if I am still needed I will do my best to help out. I live in the USA and live in the EST.
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Old 03-25-2004, 07:03 PM   #104
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Arrow

Just been working on some MP scripting and have finally managed to get it so you can trigger the spinning rings and they will come to a stop, allowing you to get the sith_holocron.

Also finally got the shader on the Mon_Mothma hologram to work the way I wanted it and have made the endor_globe hologram shader double sided, eliminating the need for 2 func_brushes which can now be used elsewhere!

Just working on solving the scripting of the switches (In turbo laser tower, fuel pump station) so that they (the switches) animate when you use them. Hope I can get that to work as it will make the map just that little bit more professional.

Then it's mainly a matter of finishing setting up the spawn points and making sure all the messages/locations/trigger work and updating the map/objectives screen/icons to reflect all the new changes.

So expect the final beta hopefully by April 5th/6th


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Old 03-29-2004, 06:29 PM   #105
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Well, you can't animate md3's in multi-player it would seem, so have remade all the switches and they all now use func_buttons. Effect is much the same.
Basically will be spending this week just trying to finish off all the myriad little bits and pieces that need taking care of - icons, redrawing the objective map, rewriting the siege file, adjusting some of the player classes, fixing this and that, setting the remainder of the spawn points and making certain everything is working alright.
I'm just working on how o make it so the lifts can't be retriggered when activated and how to make it so ALL jedi team members must be in the shuttle to complete the final objective... could be tricky!

So expect the final beta to be ready/available for one week of testing starting next monday (April 6th).

Please let me know if you are still interested...
So far I only have mergatroid as a definite.


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Old 04-02-2004, 12:21 AM   #106
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Unhappy No-One Else?

Just Mergatroid?


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Old 04-02-2004, 04:09 AM   #107
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im interested, just hope i can make the time
it seems the other beta testers were erally only part of this to play a new map early
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Old 04-02-2004, 08:02 AM   #108
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Maybe the others don't check this thread anymore

Anyway, as I already mentioned in a PM i sent to monsoontide, I'll help out with a server (10 slots, 82.211.37.50:30005).

Additionally, about 5 or 6 of my clan mates r ready to help testing.


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Old 04-02-2004, 01:43 PM   #109
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I can still have beta sessions hosted on the -ONE- clanserver, and I can still test.

195.149.21.245:28070

It seems like you've changed quite a bit - I look forward to seeing what you have done.

Will it still be possible for Sith to camp at the top of the lifts and drop explosives on the heads of the poor Jedi?
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Old 04-02-2004, 03:12 PM   #110
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Thanks guys...
Hopefully I'll have fixed some of those problems with players camping out - some will probably remain though. Though there won't be any explosives this time out.
Also I've fixed all the spawn points, so there are now at least three progression points for the Jedi team and as objectives are activated (ie. you open the door to them or whatever) Sith spawn points are activated near the objective/s and turned off again when the objective/s is completes, thus keeping the Sith close to the action should they die.

I'll put a list of changes with the release.


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Old 04-05-2004, 05:27 PM   #111
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sounds good

any news on when the testing starts? (no, i dont wanna hurry you - just asking )
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:36 PM   #112
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Exclamation

Wow! I feel like a real software development house, as I can now officially state, A DELAY!
Til tomorrow, as although the map is now compiled, there are a number of small things to tidy up tonight (Mainly to do with the map/objective screen) - just updating everything to match the changes.
It WILL be ready tomorrow though.


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Old 04-05-2004, 06:55 PM   #113
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WOOHOOOO!!!
can't wait 4 it!!! *wants download*
every new siege map sounds good and i like that mal
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:05 PM   #114
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I am in as a beta tester, just hope we can get atleast 8 players so we can run a full test.
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Old 04-07-2004, 05:33 PM   #115
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I've redone the bot-routing to take into account the changes. I've tested it to make sure it all works and it's ready for upload as soon as I can return to work (& hi-speed connection).
Had to take some unplanned time of work to deal with some unexpected stuff. Sorry for the continuing delay. Hopefully by Friday this should be ready.

I guess I can upload it to the same places as before????


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Old 04-07-2004, 05:38 PM   #116
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I don't think that this will be much of a problem, dog. In the evenings (GMT) there are usually at least 4-5 SMC members online


EDIT: monsoon, in case you need webspace to upload it to, i could maybe help out - how big is the file?

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Old 04-12-2004, 09:05 PM   #117
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Post LIST OF CHANGES

Communication Room:
Fixed the shader on the Mon Mothma hologram > Hologram now only appears when triggered.
Observation Deck: No changes
Conference Room:
Slight change to desk and chair positioning to allow you to walk between wall and chair/desk.
Map Room:
Fixed shader on holographic globe. > Globe now rotates. > Lift down to laboratory now has blue edging.
Laboratory:
Major structural changes & layout redesign > Moved spinning rings here. > Rings are now scripted to spin/stop spinning. > Sith Holocron objective now STARTS in this room.
Meditation Chamber:
No changes
Power Nodes:
Objective changed. Instead of pressing four buttons, you now have to destroy the nodes – thus making it easier to keep track of which ones have been done. > Also added ladders and cushion brushes on both sides of power node “fins.”
Medical:
Added some more misc items. > Added 4 small lifts between lower and upper levels.
Power Core:
Major structural changes. > Removed electrified floor. > Removed switch for bridge and fuel pipe. > Moved Switches for Meditation Chamber and Turbo Laser Tower.
Turbo Laser Tower:
Fixed one of the ramps. > Added some piping. > Made objective into working switch. > Removed some weapons.
Main Shaft:
Removed ramps to Sith landing pad. > Fixed door messages.
Trophy Hall:
Changed top gantry, so instead of being broken, it is now the entry/exit to the Sith landing pad. > Main door now has to be “activated” before it can be used or force pushed open.
Hanger/Workshop:
Added grates in ceiling that Jedi must enter through. > Doors in hanger will not work until electrical cable in workshop has been severed. > Flame burst from pod racer engine now does considerable damage.
Cells/Interrogation:
Interrogation Door will not open until electric cable in hanger workshop cut.
Lava Well:
Lava will not drain until Sith Holocron has been obtained. > You cannot jump down lava well without dying, until lava completely drained and lift active. > Rocks at base of well removed and replaced with piping and gantry. > Fuel pipe switch has been moved to end of this gantry. > Breakable rock wall removed.
Sith Chamber:
Redesigned a bit. > Large rock must be force pushed to reveal fire pit. > Sith Holocron must be destroyed in fire-pit.
Pumping Station:
Objective switch is now a working switch.
Fuel Pipes:
The emergency switch to extend the bridge is now located half-way up the pipes. > You can now jump from the bridge switch back to the main castle cliff face and make your way back along the ledges to the cell block.

GENERAL CHANGES:
> Lifts all at 100 speed and move in a linear manner. > Retrigger times extended.
> Small “switches” added to all down lifts.
> Spawn point progression for both Jedi & Sith teams.


Monsoontide
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Old 04-12-2004, 09:09 PM   #118
monsoontide
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Sorry for the week long delay. Family illness - had to take a week of work to deal with it.
Will be uploading tomorrow! NO! REALLY!


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Old 04-13-2004, 07:47 PM   #119
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those changes look good - waiting in anticipation
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Old 04-14-2004, 12:11 AM   #120
monsoontide
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Exclamation Download Beta#2 Now!

Still things to tidy up in the map - most notably the map and icons + a few rocks and things that are compiling with "see-through" faces on them.

Please post ALL feedback in this thread please.
I REALLY NEED the feedback so I can fix any/all remaining problems.

Please alert me ASAP if this is not the updated map! (I can't check it from work)

Download it from here (BIG thanks to Andy867 for hosting this - Still!!!)
SIEGE - BastCastle - Beta #2

As this is a SIEGE map it needs to be played by as many people at one time as possible. If you can host it on you server, please post ISP address of server AND times your server will host the map (in GMT please) right here in this thread.

THIS IS NOT the final version of the map. (Final is next release!)



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