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Old 03-09-2004, 12:19 PM   #1
FroZticles
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If SWGB 2 added heroes......

What would you like to see...

Think about what kind of heroes would make a good hero for each civ 3 abilities max make as many as you want just dont go overboard ill make up one off the spot..

3 abilities max make as many as you want just dont go overboard and tell us what they counter against!!!!

Republic Special Op Commando

Abilities- Sniper, increases clone trooper fire power while in a group, Can train 4 clones to become snipers but they cant give the bonus and are weaker than there hero

Effective against troops and mostly enhances his fellow units.
Weak vs Jedi and other heroes.

Have fun!!

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Old 03-09-2004, 07:57 PM   #2
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I don't get what you mean by "Medium armor has a sniper pistol that shoots every 3 sec". What is that???

Imperial Officer:

Orbital Bombardment: Calls in an orbital strike on a certain area. May not hit every target in the area.

Range Aura(Give me a better name then this): As an officer, with his binoculars he can help his fellow trooper target enemies. Increases LOS and Range of ranged units.


This ain't like WC3 invincible heroes I believe.


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Old 03-09-2004, 11:27 PM   #3
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I'd rather there were no heroes at all. Main reason being that they require micro-management, and that really isnt acceptable if we want large scale battles. They cant both be done well.


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Old 03-10-2004, 12:41 AM   #4
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What if we actually want medium scale battles?


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Old 03-10-2004, 12:44 AM   #5
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Then Windu won't associate with you (its actually not that bad), although I don't want heros either (whats the point?)


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Old 03-10-2004, 12:50 AM   #6
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Heroes are now a very popular feature of a lot of RTS. It can't be all bad to add in our own. It's not like we're gonna have Vader slaughtering down everything on his path.


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Old 03-10-2004, 01:40 AM   #7
Admiral Vostok
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Actually that's a good point, Luke's Dad. While many people are against heroes, the fact remains that they are popular amongst RTS games nowadays.

I shall get right to the drawing board and design my heroes for my civ design...


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Old 03-10-2004, 08:34 AM   #8
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Well this thread wasn't put up to hear your opinons on whether you want heroes in the game or not it was so people could create there own. Windu not every battle will be large scale youll still have your rushes like it or not. And I'm still wondering why you post here cause in your world your the one thats right you have no tolerance for rejection and are to stubben to change things which aren't your ideas in the first place so move on and let us have some fun.

PS I might create a UBER!!!!! template if I get the time.
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Old 03-10-2004, 09:36 AM   #9
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What does it matter to you if i post or not? I would personally prefer large-scale epic battles rather than the smaller battles with heroes like in 'War of the Ring'.


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Old 03-10-2004, 10:42 AM   #10
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Did I say they were gonna be like war of the rings no unlike yourself I don't steal ideas and call them my own!!!!
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Old 03-11-2004, 12:44 AM   #11
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lol, calm down little one.

I didn't say that it would be like WotR, just that i would prefer standard epic battles as opposed to really small battles which include heroes.


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Old 03-11-2004, 01:44 AM   #12
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Medium Scale RTS do use heroes. Froz said that this place was not for voicing your opinion so please if you don't want heroes, just leave from this thread.


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Old 03-11-2004, 04:06 AM   #13
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Precisely luke. My opinion just happens to be that heroes would be bad for a SWGB sequel. As this thread is on the topic of heroes in a SWGB sequel, it seems to be the best place to voice my opinion about this matter.


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Old 03-11-2004, 06:15 PM   #14
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Here are some heroes I'd like to see:

Walrus man: disrupts enemy troops by going around saying he doesn't like them and pushing them over. Countered by jedi.

Uncle Owen: Gives a huge bonus to all farms within a certain radius but won't let you attack the enemy cos it's too exciting.

Admiral Ozzel: A hero for the rebels. His clumsiness and stupidity allow them to detect surprise attacks. Dies very easily.

Rancor keeper: Controls wild animals. It's like luring but better...

The Rebo band: Their inappropriate musical interludes cause all enemies within a certain radius to die of embarassment.

R5-D4: Breaks down, creating a smoke screen which blinds enemies.

General Dodonna: Has a beard. Er, that's it...
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:43 PM   #15
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LOL! Nice one saberhagen!


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Old 03-11-2004, 11:33 PM   #16
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Yes, most amusing Saber.

Windu, how can you not want heroes? They're just like RoN's Generals.
Sorry, had to be said.

Anyway I've done Hero rules for my design. They're called Commanders. I've also done the heroes for the Confederacy and Empire, the rest are coming soon.
Here's the links:
Commanders Overview
Confederacy Commanders
Galactic Empire Commanders


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Old 03-12-2004, 05:59 AM   #17
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Nice one saber but I think the rancor keeper could be put into it there is a wild unit on dathomir like the jawas and tusken. They are called the nightsisters force sensitive women who treat rancors with greatest respect and use them in battle
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Old 03-12-2004, 06:03 AM   #18
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Bah Vostok lets think outside the box!!!!!
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Old 03-12-2004, 07:12 AM   #19
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vostok - i also have Commanders in my SWGB2 idea which are like RoN's Generals, i just don't think they're particually useful.


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Old 03-14-2004, 07:11 PM   #20
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You're right, Froz. After posting these guys, I reconsidered it. I'm not terribly happy with what I've got there, so please ignore it until I have something better.

I'm thinking now on moving towards only a single hero per civ. These characters would be pretty powerful, but you still need to back them up. They'd be a little bit like the characters in Generals, though the main difference is that the characters in Generals are meant to operate on their own while the heroes I'm thinking of work best with an army. Each hero would not necessarily be balanced with the heroes of other civs, and as such they would cost different amounts.

These are the heroes I'm thinking of:

Confederacy: Count Dooku
Galactic Empire: Darth Vader
Galactic Republic: Obi-Wan Kenobi (my reasoning on choosing Obi-Wan over Mace or Yoda is that I think we'll see a lot more how great a Jedi Obi-Wan is in Episode III, plus he's such an important character)
Gungan Grand Army: Jar Jar Binks (Jar Jar would be pretty cheap, and I think the only abilities he'll have is that somehow things just seem to work out - based mainly on the bits in the Grass Plains battle where he messes up but it ends up destroying heaps of droids anyway)
Rebel Alliance: Luke Skywalker
Royal Naboo: Padme Amidala
Trade Federation: Darth Maul


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Old 03-19-2004, 09:54 PM   #21
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There has been some debate when WC3 came out about keeping the hero system for SC2.

Just think of it for a sec : a marine hero (what the heck is that?!?!?)

Heroes are more for medieval/fantasy games. I just can't see a SW game with heroes.

Keep heroes for the campaigns : what happens if your Darth Vader dies in a skirmish? End of the game? What about Luke?Keep in mind that a great game's strength is in replay value, and in the case of an RTS, that means multiplayer or skirmish vs cpus. Therefore, most peeps will play these modes, and most of the battles would be the classic "build your base and then destroy your oppenents".

If you really want to have heroes, make them "normal Jedi/Sith". You could have more than one (but not an army), and THAT would make sense with what SW is.


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Old 03-20-2004, 11:12 AM   #22
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Thats why I'm not creating the movie heroes I'm making completely new ones.
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Old 03-20-2004, 01:35 PM   #23
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what's the point in making new ones?


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Old 03-20-2004, 11:35 PM   #24
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To be different I'm so sick of these people stuck in realism land they really need to adjust there radar a bit.
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Old 03-21-2004, 01:52 AM   #25
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Yeah we need other types of heroes then the common Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader. They get repetitive.


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Old 03-21-2004, 08:38 PM   #26
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Heroes other than Vader and Skywalker? Who would you suggest?


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Old 03-21-2004, 09:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Heroes other than Vader and Skywalker? Who would you suggest?
"Generic" Jedi and Sith would be just perfect!

There's no need to think a lot about it! If you want names, make it like WC3, where heroes have generic names

about realism : some people (like me) like when a game based on a movie is as close to the movie as possible. Yes, they have to adjust some stuff, but creating entire civs (wooks and gungans) out of nothing is ridiculous.


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Old 03-21-2004, 09:52 PM   #28
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Ditto. Like Darth and Froz mentionned, it could be simple officers, special units or Jedi/Sith.


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Old 03-22-2004, 03:13 PM   #29
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Personally I'd rather have the heroes from the movies than "generic" heroes.

But maybe I don't fully understand your concept here. Do you mean it should work like in WC3 where you select the type of hero you want, in this case you choose either a Jedi/Sith, or an Officer, or a political leader, and they all have generic powers that each civ has the same. However their names are generated randomly depending on the civ, much like the computer player's names in RM games.

So for example if you're playing the Rebellion your Jedi hero might be Luke Skywalker, your Officer might be General Dodonna and your political leader might be Princess Leia. If you're playing the Trade Federation your Sith hero might be Darth Maul, your officer OOM-9 and your political leader Nute Gunray.

Is this what you mean? If not please explain.


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Old 03-22-2004, 07:59 PM   #30
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Let's take Froz's Special Op Commando.

It's not a movie hero, it has its own unique abilities and it's not generic since you can have only one(correct me Froz if I'm wrong).

Its name will always be Special Op Commando, a non-movie "hero". I guess it's not exactly a "hero" unit then, more like one with uncanny abilities.


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Old 03-22-2004, 11:41 PM   #31
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Actually I've taken that commando stripped it abilities and made him a normal unit. A made a different Republic one but yes if I stuck with him only one could be created.
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Old 03-23-2004, 06:39 PM   #32
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What to people think about Generic heroes? I' warming to the idea, actually. This is what I mean:

Every civ can buy the same three types of heroes, that is a Jedi/Sith hero, an Officer hero and a Political hero. Their powers are the same for each civ.

This would make them easier to play with, as you don't have to figure out all their powers everytime you play a new civ. Perhaps if that is too boring, each hero gets a single unique power as well as a couple of other generic powers. Other than that they're equal in stats and cost.

The heroes I think would be as follows (J=Jedi/Sith, O=Officer, P=Politician)

Confederacy - J: Count Dooku, O: Super Battle Droid Officer, P: Poggle the Lesser
spoiler:
We'll apparently see a Super Battle Droid Officer as a significant character in the opening of Episode III

Galactic Empire - J: Darth Vader, O: General Veers, P: Grand Moff Tarkin
Galactic Republic - J: Obi-Wan Kenobi, O: Clone Officer, P: Bail Antilles(?)
Gungans - J: ?, O: General Jar Jar Binks, P: Boss Nass
Rebel Alliance - J: Luke Skywalker, O: General Han Solo, P: Princess Leia
Royal Naboo - J: Qui-Gon Jinn, O: Captain Panaka, P: Padme Amidala
Trade Federation - J: Darth Maul, O: OOM-9, P: Nute Gunray


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Old 03-23-2004, 10:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
What to people think about Generic heroes? I' warming to the idea, actually. This is what I mean:

Every civ can buy the same three types of heroes, that is a Jedi/Sith hero, an Officer hero and a Political hero. Their powers are the same for each civ.

This would make them easier to play with, as you don't have to figure out all their powers everytime you play a new civ. Perhaps if that is too boring, each hero gets a single unique power as well as a couple of other generic powers. Other than that they're equal in stats and cost.

The heroes I think would be as follows (J=Jedi/Sith, O=Officer, P=Politician)

Confederacy - J: Count Dooku, O: Super Battle Droid Officer, P: Poggle the Lesser
spoiler:
We'll apparently see a Super Battle Droid Officer as a significant character in the opening of Episode III

Galactic Empire - J: Darth Vader, O: General Veers, P: Grand Moff Tarkin
Galactic Republic - J: Obi-Wan Kenobi, O: Clone Officer, P: Bail Antilles(?)
Gungans - J: ?, O: General Jar Jar Binks, P: Boss Nass
Rebel Alliance - J: Luke Skywalker, O: General Han Solo, P: Princess Leia
Royal Naboo - J: Qui-Gon Jinn, O: Captain Panaka, P: Padme Amidala
Trade Federation - J: Darth Maul, O: OOM-9, P: Nute Gunray
Hey, I like your Jedi/officer/politician idea. In a sense, that's exactly like WC3 (warrior, dex-based and caster heroes).

What I mean by "generic" heroes is that the game gives every hero a random name. In skirmish and MP, there would be no movie SW characters; that good for peeps who want heroes AND for the purists). Let me explain how it works with WC3 :

In WC3, one of the Alliance's hero is the Paladin. In a skirmish or MP game, when you summon a pally, the game will give him a random name (10 or 12 names in total, enough for a different name is every player in the game gets a pally). For example, one of the name is "Buzan the Fearless". So my pally in the game could get that name, and the enemy's will get another. That way, each hero is "unique" in each game.

In the campaigns however, one of the Protagonist is a pally called Arthas. He's like a normal pally, but has a special name. "Arthas" never appears as a name in a MP game.

Here's how I see the system in a SW RTS game (example with rebels) :

They get a Jedi hero, a politician hero and an officer (to take your class idea)

In the campaign, Luke would be a "normal Jedi", but with Luke as a name. In the MP game, the Jedi you summon would be called by a random name (e.g. Dake Coral (my first KotOR generated name ^_^)).

Han would be a normal "officer" with Han Solo (or general solo) as a name. The MP version could be called something like "Lieutenant Coral".
et cetera

That's what I mean with "generic heroes". Purist would like it (we don't intefere with the movies outside the campaigns) and it's a really great system for hero based RTS (it's a LOT better than just having "General" as the name like in RoN).

Anyways, these are just my thoughts....

EDIT : of course we would have to make stuff more unique. Gungans (if they ever make it in the other game) should not have Jedi, as the wookies. Rebels and Imperials are more similar, but perhaps the rebels politician should be stringer than Imps, and Imps officers stronger than Rebels' (or something like that). Finally, every hero should have different skills (spells). Otherwise, the game will get boring really fast.

Man, I just like this idea. WC3 system plus SW stuff would keep me happy for quite a lot of time


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Old 03-23-2004, 10:57 PM   #34
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Nice idea actually. But then what would be the purpose of the political hero?


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Old 03-23-2004, 11:58 PM   #35
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I don't know but I'm still not overly excited about movie heroes being apart of the main RM. Campaigns they are great to set out the story but not so great in a normal game.
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Old 03-24-2004, 07:22 PM   #36
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I see how it works, that sounds alright. However before Sith gets over here and goes into a fit because someone likes a WC3 idea, I think we need to learn from the mistakes WC3 heroes made.

In WC3, you can sometimes defeat an entire army with the hero. Battles come down to who can click their spells the fastest. This is not what we want. While in Star Wars it is true that the actions of a few effect the destiny of the entire galaxy, it doesn't translate to good gameplay. Heroes should be far less powerful than this, and mostly (except for the Jedi) cannot handle themselves on their own.

When I first read your idea, Darth, I didn't like the random name thing because the Purist in me said "these names aren't from the movies!" but then as you explained that it gets around interference with the movies I get your point. I'm still not entirely convinced because I would like to use movie heroes, but I guess they are better left for the campaigns. The other advantage is that when you hero dies, they don't get resurrected, you just get assigned a new random name. On the other hand, perhaps we really don't even need names?

My first question: if we had a Jedi hero, would we not have buildable Jedi at all? I'll assume for the rest of this post that you only get one Jedi.

So here's how I imagine the classes of hero working:

JEDI - Very powerful in combat, but has few if any "aura" abilities that benefit friendly units. As such the Jedi performs well on his own, and is excellent at infiltration missions and the like. Most of his powers are combat based, such as Push or Lightning.

OFFICER - Military officers are not very good in combat, but their main strength is giving benefits to surrounding friendly units. As such they are best brought to battle, but need to be defended. They might have powers that increase units' rate of fire, increase units' speed or sabotage enemy buildings. As something extra, Officers riding in a transport increase that transport's armour.

POLITICIAN - Politicians are rarely seen in the midst of battle, but are good at leading their civs and furthering their cause off the battlefield. As such the Politicians powers are more focussed on the base and on defense. For example they might increase building production, increase worker's speed, or even have a power similar to AoM's Ceasfire where both sides stop fighting while negotiations take place. As something extra like the Officer, Politicians garrissoned in buildings increase the building's armour.


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Old 03-24-2004, 11:29 PM   #37
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I say scrap the Jedi hero and make it a type of soldier.
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:42 AM   #38
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I say scrap Jedi and Political heroes and just leave Commanders/Generals.


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Old 03-25-2004, 01:02 AM   #39
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Old 03-25-2004, 04:37 AM   #40
Darth Windu
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I could say the same for you luke.

Vostok - with your 'politcal hero' idea, it seems to look a lot like the 'Patriot' unit from the RoN exapsnion 'Thrones and Patriots'. Is that where you got it from?


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