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Old 03-19-2004, 03:06 PM   #1
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naboo & gungans

ive seen this topic brought up several times, so i figured id give it its own thread even though there has most likely already been one. i hink the two should be seperate becasue they are totally different civs. But im ok with the idea of the combining occasionaly (like scenarios and stuff) to form something like a grand naboo army.


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Old 03-19-2004, 03:30 PM   #2
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Well, my position is that they should be merged, with players able to use Royal Naboo only or Gungan only units for senario's. The reasons i think they shoud be merged are-

1. We see at the end of Ep1 that the Royal Naboo and Gungans had put aside their differences. In addition, we see that in Ep2 the planet Naboo is represented by both the Royal Naboo and Gungans, rather than just the Royal Naboo.

2. It allows other, more diverse civs to be added to the game without overcrowding and reducing civ uniqueness. In my template, this allows the addition of the Hutt Cartel.

3. It removes some of the, for lack of a better word, 'dumb' units. By this i mean Royal Naboo assault mechs and Gungan aircraft. Also, as i have mentioned before, going by canon units, the Gungans have a Navy, Infantry and a few 'mechs'. The Royal Naboo on the other hand have no Navy, light infantry, a few mechs and aircraft. Put these together and you get a full compliment.

4. It really does make sense. After the events of Ep1, the Royal Naboo and Gungans would have realised that neither could defend their planet, and hence would have begun co-operation and military co-ordination in order to better defend their planet, particually during the Clone War.


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Old 03-19-2004, 07:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Well, my position is that they should be merged, with players able to use Royal Naboo only or Gungan only units for senario's. The reasons i think they shoud be merged are-

1. We see at the end of Ep1 that the Royal Naboo and Gungans had put aside their differences. In addition, we see that in Ep2 the planet Naboo is represented by both the Royal Naboo and Gungans, rather than just the Royal Naboo.

2. It allows other, more diverse civs to be added to the game without overcrowding and reducing civ uniqueness. In my template, this allows the addition of the Hutt Cartel.

3. It removes some of the, for lack of a better word, 'dumb' units. By this i mean Royal Naboo assault mechs and Gungan aircraft. Also, as i have mentioned before, going by canon units, the Gungans have a Navy, Infantry and a few 'mechs'. The Royal Naboo on the other hand have no Navy, light infantry, a few mechs and aircraft. Put these together and you get a full compliment.

4. It really does make sense. After the events of Ep1, the Royal Naboo and Gungans would have realised that neither could defend their planet, and hence would have begun co-operation and military co-ordination in order to better defend their planet, particually during the Clone War.
1. Big deal.

2. More diverse civs? Such as the Hutt Cartell? That just be some good weed. Please share. You have just contradicted yourself in your first two points. In point 1 you refer to the movies as an example of a Gungan-Naboo civ. So by that logic the Hutt Cartell would then be Jabba, Boba Fett a few other bounty hunters and what else? Troops? Mechs? Air? This leads to...

3. All you'd be doing is creating 'dumb units.' Which then makes this a 'dumb' idea.

4. Is a re-hash of point 1. And if you want to talk about the diverse crap, then they should both be kept in. Your EU stuff will never make it in. So keep dreaming.



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Old 03-19-2004, 09:02 PM   #4
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windu - u make a good point. its like they complete each other. i like it.


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Old 03-19-2004, 10:05 PM   #5
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to quote a fellow forumer:
gameplay > realism



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Old 03-19-2004, 11:38 PM   #6
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an unrealistic star wars game defeats the purpose of it being star wars.


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Old 03-20-2004, 12:39 AM   #7
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But the destruction of gameplay defeats its purpose to be a good game.


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Old 03-20-2004, 01:53 AM   #8
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pbguy - if you're going to try to refute my arguments, at least make an attempt to relate your rebuttles to the films, or at least EU.

As for the Hutt Cartel, we actually see many units in the films that can be used as their forces. Some of the possible units for the Hutt Cartel include-
- Weequey Infantry
- Gamorean Guards
- T-16 Skyhoppers
- V-34 Speeder
- X-35 Speeder (or whatever their designations are)
- Swoop Bikes
- Cargo Skiff's
- Sandcrawlers

and so on. As i said, this civ would play differently to the other civs due to their lack of a navy, and would also have a very unique art look, being from Tatooine. I would also like to point out that Boba Fett was NOT the only Bounty Hunter with Jabba, and Gardula the Hutt was also seen in Ep1.


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Old 03-20-2004, 03:58 AM   #9
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pbguy-although I think that the two should be either merged (or cut entirely), its for far different reasons than Windu. Personally, I feel that there is, even with 8 civs, too many civs for the game to be sufficiently balanced in MP (in that I mean there isn't an OP civ and a crap civ) and remain both versitile (how fun would the game be if the rebs could only trooper rush, or the naboo boom) and unique (not these lame 5% bonuses where everyone is the same til t4). So I decided to cut out the extraneous stuff. The Wookies went out the window, along with the TF, with the Confeds stealing some of their concepts and units. As for the Naboo and Gungans, it seemed excessive to have them as two separate entities, and I know if I advocated dropping them, all the other people on this board would go nuts, so I took the middle road, and merged them together but still kept them apart (see other thread).

Windu-The Hutts are a bad idea on so many levels I don't know where to begin.


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Old 03-20-2004, 12:17 PM   #10
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pbguy makes all valid points which I back entirely
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Old 03-20-2004, 02:32 PM   #11
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hutt cartel should be a civ.


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Old 03-21-2004, 12:41 AM   #12
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Hutt cartel is the mafia of Star Wars and in all the games based on real life armies have you seen the mafia being added as a civ I dont think so.
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Old 03-21-2004, 12:50 AM   #13
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froz - lol, feel like coming up with something original anytime soon? I actually wouldnt be suprised if you and pbguy were the same person...
As for the Hutts, you dont see the Naboo and Gungans running around killing and pillaging now do you? They stick to their planet, the Hutts stick to theirs. Hence, why should the Hutts be denied because of their prominance? As i said before, they would bring a unique playing style, and would look very different to every other civ.

sith - start at the beginning, i would like to know why you think they are a bad idea.


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Old 03-21-2004, 12:52 AM   #14
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yea froz. gameplay>realism.


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Old 03-21-2004, 11:47 AM   #15
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In this case both gameplay and realism are out the door so nitro has no idea.

Maybe because Tatooine is not there planet for one they are nothing more than common thugs. Next youll be saying jawas and tuskens can be there own civ.
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Old 03-21-2004, 03:26 PM   #16
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froz - think back to episode i and the words of qui gon jin. "tatoonie is run by the hutts". therefore, its practically theres.


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Old 03-21-2004, 05:33 PM   #17
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The Hutts don't have the man-power and cash to compete against the other civs. Realistically, they'll be crushed because they're just a bunch of undiscipline thugs who won't work together like a real army.


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Old 03-21-2004, 09:47 PM   #18
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Despite Froz's poor grammar and punctuation he is saying what I have been saying all along. The Hutt's are an underworld power and never in the history of this world or the Star Wars Universe has a force like the Hutt Cartel or the Mafia marched to battle. This is what an RTS is about, sending armies to battle. The Hutt cartel just doesn't do that, so despite their importance in the Star Wars Galaxy as a whole, they should not be included as a playable civ.

It would make for both bad realism and gameplay.


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Old 03-22-2004, 05:27 AM   #19
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The Hutts don’t want there illegal activities exposed and a military strike would not be a good idea. The Hutts would never dare come up against the Empire if Vader thought they were a huge military threat he would have wiped them out already.
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Old 03-22-2004, 06:21 AM   #20
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Froz - i have never, and would not, suggest that Jawa's and Tuskens have their own civ. However, the Hutt Cartel is a powerful organisation with a lot of resources at it's disposal, and controlling at least one world.

luke - the Naboo dont have the manpower to compete against other civs, and WERE crushed in Ep1 - does that mean we shouldnt include them either?


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Old 03-22-2004, 04:21 PM   #21
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Windu, I know you love telling people to read your posts, so let it be known I take great satisfaction in telling you the same thing.

You seem to be ignoring the best argument against the Hutts - they don't march to battle.


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Old 03-22-2004, 08:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
luke - the Naboo dont have the manpower to compete against other civs, and WERE crushed in Ep1 - does that mean we shouldnt include them either?
Shouldn't that be why you're combining them with the Gungans? Who are you going to combine the Hutts with for them to have enough firepower to go up against any of the other civ?


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Old 03-22-2004, 09:02 PM   #23
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hey, with the kinda money the hutts have, they could hire an army.


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Old 03-22-2004, 09:13 PM   #24
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They could hire some mercenaries, but none of them are capable soldiers nor are they disciplined enough to fight in a war. Mercenaries don't make a good army.


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Old 03-23-2004, 10:10 AM   #25
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Vostok, luke - what does it matter if they go off to war on other planets? As i said, the Naboo are the same.

With the Hutts though, their forces are basically made up of mercenaries (with Bounty Hunters as a unique unit) and their strength is in their economy - their unique building means that they dont need to collect resources in order to generate credits.


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Old 03-23-2004, 07:44 PM   #26
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Amazing, truly amazing. You really shouldn't be telling people to read your posts if you won't do the same for us.

Luke's Dad and I never said the Hutts don't go to war on other planets. We said they don't go to war. Period. The Naboo are not the same because they do go to war.


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Old 03-24-2004, 01:16 AM   #27
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Mercenaries are not the Hutts forces, they work for whoever is paying for them. There is no way a mercenary is going to fight for the Hutts when they know they will die.
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Old 03-24-2004, 08:49 AM   #28
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FroZ - that is an incredibly dumb thing to say. If mercenaries werent prepared to die, they wouldnt be mercenaries.

I mean, you do realise these people are soldiers-for-hire right?


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Old 03-24-2004, 11:07 AM   #29
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They are assasins they work under stealth conditions they are not gonna run up against the Empire and get slaughtered, well I guess you could have the Hutts put bounties on every stormtrooper the Empire has.
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Old 03-24-2004, 12:23 PM   #30
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What!?!? Are you serious?

A Mercenary is neither an assasin, nor a Bounty Hunter.

A few meanings for the word 'Mercenary' are-
1. "hired to fight for a foreign ruler, army, or cause"
2. "a soldier serving for pay in a foreign army"

Which is exactly what the Hutt forces would be, hence the mix of Weequay's, Rodian's, Human's etc.


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Old 03-24-2004, 08:24 PM   #31
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The Hutt Cartel doesn't fight wars Windu! Read my posts!


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:17 AM   #32
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would they fund wars?


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Old 03-25-2004, 12:25 AM   #33
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I think we should just stop listening to his ideas cause he is definately not tolerant of others.
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Old 03-25-2004, 01:48 AM   #34
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vostok - PROVE IT. We see that in Ep6, Jabba isnt concerned about holding Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa and Han Solo prisoner and trying to execute them. Considering it would be difficult not to know how powerful the alliance was, dont you think Jabba would have at least a reasonably strong force to repel and attacks made against him?

Besides, as i said, the greatest strength of the Hutt Cartel is their abilities at economic warfare.


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Old 03-25-2004, 02:51 AM   #35
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econmic warfare? do they have a farm fest? explain please.


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Old 03-25-2004, 05:30 AM   #36
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Well, first of all, as i said before, the Hutt unique building generates credits, and so the hutts have less reliance on collecting resources. In addition, they gain more credits through trading than other civs do (smuggling). This then allows the Hutts to expand quickly and without wasting resources on workers and resource buildings, plus gives them a surplus and source of income if there are no resources left on the map.

I was also thinking about giving them a unit or ability to steal other civ's credits, though im not too sure about that one yet.


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Old 03-25-2004, 06:21 AM   #37
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Hutts don't fight wars!!! PROVE THAT THEY DO!!!!!
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Old 03-25-2004, 08:16 AM   #38
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The problem with that, frozo, is that you are saying that my claim to the Hutt Cartel as a civ is illegitimite because they dont go to war. Therefore, the onus is on YOU to prove that they don't, not on me to prove that they do.


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Old 03-25-2004, 11:39 AM   #39
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Name one war that the Hutts have fought in?

I rest my case
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Old 03-25-2004, 12:37 PM   #40
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Name one war they didnt fight in.

Before you start rattling off things about the Civil War and Clone War, i should take this opportunity to point out that they were indeed involved in the Cvil War, and just because we didnt see and Hutt battles didnt mean that none took place.


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