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Old 03-26-2004, 01:36 AM   #41
lukeiamyourdad
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Actually Windu, you're just evading his arguments. He does give a good point. You can't prove that they fought any war.

We can however, say that we did not see they fight a real battle anywhere in the movies or in EU(as far as I know).


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Old 03-26-2004, 02:59 AM   #42
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Thats how Windu has always answered his questions he can never provide a strong core in his arguments. Ohhh I thought you didn't believe in EU so if none of the so called "Hutt Battles" were in the film I guess you don't believe they ever existed.

Go back and evade some more its what your good at.
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:10 AM   #43
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luke - that is true, we never saw them fight. However, to use another of my never-ending real-world examples, Sweden has been neutral for over a century, even with conflicts like WW1 and WW2 raging all around it, and yet did (and still does) maintain a standing army, navy and airforce.
Who is to say the Hutts dont do the same thing? (ie. just because they dont fight doesnt mean they cant fight)

frozo - how many wars did we see the Wookiees (as a civ) in?


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Old 03-26-2004, 11:02 AM   #44
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We saw Chewie fighting in a few wars and the Wookiees are known from EU to have a sizable army where as the Hutts are only guards and gangsters. OK Windo
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Old 03-26-2004, 03:32 PM   #45
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what wars did we see chewie fight in?


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Old 03-26-2004, 06:11 PM   #46
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Windu - Your real-world example is, once again, irrelevant. The Hutt Cartel is not a country or even a planet, it is an underworld crime syndicate. Therefore any real-world comparisons you should make need to be with the Mafia, the Yakuza, or any other underworld crime syndicate.

As for asking my to PROVE IT: it is a well known fact that it is impossible to prove something doesn't exist. It is only possible to prove something does exist. Therefore I can't prove Hutt Cartel wars to exist, they can only be proved to exist. Therefore it is up to you to prove they exist.

But putting the intellectualism aside for a moment - the Hutt Cartel has never gone to battle not only in the movies, but throughout all of EU. I think this says something that you cannot ignore.

As for your example of holding Luke, Han and Leia hostage: I think the fact that these three (and Lando and the droids) were able to kill all of Jabba's force provides more evidence he doesn't have an army, especially when said army doesn't retaliate against the Rebellion for killing Jabba.

Nitro - Umm, unless I was watching the wrong movie trilogy, I'm quite sure Chewie fought in the Galactic Civil War.


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Old 03-26-2004, 09:57 PM   #47
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Nice army Windu...got slaughtered by 5 persons and two droids...yay!


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Old 03-26-2004, 11:37 PM   #48
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just because we didnt see and Hutt battles didnt mean that none took place.
That has to be the worst arguement I've seen anyone use. Hey, lets give the Empire droidekas! Just because we didnt see them used doesnt mean they weren't used!

And everyone step back from the whole "can the Hutt's fight a war" thing. Look at it like this: civs need to hit the chopping board and who would you rather have in your game, the Hutts or the Rebels? Add that to the fact that they aren't a distinct civ, with a standing amry or the ability to declare war, they rank lower than the Wookies on the "fits the game ideal".


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Old 03-27-2004, 12:15 AM   #49
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guess i missed the galactic civil war part...


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Old 03-27-2004, 12:54 AM   #50
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Vostok - with Sweden, thje point i was trying to make is that a nation or organisation doesnt have to get involved in wars in order to have military forces.

Also, as i said before, the onus is on you to prove they didnt fight, as that is your whole argument.

Finally, with Luke etc, he was a Jedi and Jabba was unprepared.


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Old 03-27-2004, 01:30 AM   #51
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Its not my argument.........


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Old 03-27-2004, 01:30 AM   #52
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Lots of country never fight wars but still have a military force. They might do some peacekeeping with the UN.

You're just avoiding the argument to prove that they did fight a war. Since you've been countering the question with another question, it mines your credibility.

With the Luke thing. Sure they're unprepare...they can't even beat ONE single Jedi...let's send them against the Republic with their huge Jedi Army!


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Old 03-27-2004, 01:37 AM   #53
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The Swiss have a military, but they are officially neutral in every single war.


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Old 03-27-2004, 02:35 AM   #54
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Vostok - with Sweden, thje point i was trying to make is that a nation or organisation doesnt have to get involved in wars in order to have military forces.
So you're saying we can play as the Hutts, and build an army, but since they don't fight in wars we can't really fight with them?
Quote:
Also, as i said before, the onus is on you to prove they didnt fight, as that is your whole argument.
And what of the onus on you to prove they did fight?
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Finally, with Luke etc, he was a Jedi and Jabba was unprepared.
So that was his whole army on the sail barge and handful of skiffs? I would have though if the Hutt Cartel had a standing army and one of the most prominent Hutts was killed, the Cartel might just use their army to retaliate against the Rebellion. Jabba certainly didn't waste much time exacting revenge on Han, I can't see that other Hutts would be at all averse to using their army against the Rebellion.


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Old 03-27-2004, 07:46 PM   #55
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The impression I got from ROTJ is that Jabba didn't give into Luke's demands because a) he was stupid and arrogant, and b) he thought he had already won by capturing Luke and all his friends. It certainly didn't suggest that he had a huge army and was prepared to fight a war.

But here's a new point: as Hutt "armies" are all mercenaries who fight for money and have no particular connection with the Hutt "civilisation" you could have those units in the game as mercenaries which could be hired by any civ. Best of both worlds: you get the cool looking units but don't have to waste time on an extra civ.
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Old 03-27-2004, 08:24 PM   #56
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That sounds decent. For lack of a better analogy they could operate similar to the Mercenaries in WarCraft 3, where on particular maps their might be a Hutt Cartel Palace, and you purchase mercenaries such as Bounty Hunters, Gamorrean Guards, Desert Skiffs and maybe even a Rancor and his keeper. This gets around the weirdness of building Bounty Hunters yourself. Perhaps the Mercenaries only stay for a set amount of time, then they run home, unless you select to keep paying them.

Don't get me wrong, I would like the Hutt Cartel to have some presence in the game, much like they were in Clone Campaigns. But they just don't work as a playable civ. Are we still entertaining the idea of secret civs (not properly balanced civs that are just for fun like the Ewoks)? I think the Hutts are perfect for this idea. But as a fully fledged civ they don't really work.


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Old 03-27-2004, 11:46 PM   #57
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I think that the Hutts fit in best the way it is now, as scenerio box units.


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Old 03-28-2004, 01:06 AM   #58
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NO! The Ewoks are supposed to be the funny secret civ! EWOKS FOREVER!


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Old 03-29-2004, 05:04 AM   #59
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I'm just trying to make everyone happy here.

We must continue to rely on negotiations.


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Old 03-29-2004, 04:08 PM   #60
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This must be the stupidest thread ever!

I'm not gonna even say my opinion


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