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Old 04-04-2004, 02:25 PM   #1
Darth Windu
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Darth Windu's NEW SWGB2 template

Hi guys and girls. I have somewhat re-vamped my SWGB2 idea, the most major change being the reduction from 8 to 4 playable civs.

But anyway, you can go see it for yourself at http://www.geocities.com/icur_mmm/sw...?1081090046278

AFTER you have read it, please let me know what you think.

UPDATED 10/04/2004


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Old 04-04-2004, 08:14 PM   #2
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OK:


1. Why do the Separatists get more armour and HP for their buildings?

2. Do the flame droids damage nearby allied units?

3. Same question for the Dwarf Spider Droid.

4. What is the meaning of this: All buildings fire automatically when not garrisoned?(Galactic Empire)

5. What's the point of having both the Tie Fighter and the Tie Interceptor if they're all the same with slighty different stats?

6. IF ARC troopers can cloak who can detect them?

7. Shouldn't snipers be unique to the Rebellion?

8. Lower the gunship carry capacity to 4 or lower. Since it's already a good weapon as itself, having such a high carry capacity makes it overpowered.

9. What happens when a Rebel Commando captures a building? Is the unit lost or can we re-use its ability?

10. Why not just give the B-Wing an anti-mech attack bonus? It seems that making them disable mech is a bit complicated for nothing.

That's all for now. I skipped some other points I wanted to make since they don't really matter.


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Old 04-05-2004, 06:16 AM   #3
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Vostok's Review

General
Stuff I like:
- City idea. Not bad.
- Weather, though if it occurs too often would get quite annoying.
Stuff I don't like:
- Why do the command versions have weaker weapons? That makes no sense.
- water transports. Don't take bad ideas from RoN. Especially when you can build air transports and fill them, it makes no sense to take an unrealistic shortcut to water transportation.
- Resources don't run out. This not only goes against realism but also makes bad gameplay.

Confederacy
Stuff I like:
- The command Droid normally gives bonuses to infantry, but can be put in an AAT to give the same bonuses to Mechs instead
Stuff I don't like:
- As Luke's Dad said, why do the Separatist buildings have more armour? They were made out of dirt in the movies.
- Where are all the Geonosians?

Empire
I find the Empire a little bland. They could be more interesting.

Republic
Stuff I like:
- Forward Command Center special ability. Fantastic. Really gives the Republic the flavour of the movies.
- Clone Speeder has anti-mech grenades... my favourite scene-not-in-the-movies
- Gunship capacity works for me.
Stuff I don't like:
- Clone Factory. That idea worked for Red Alert 2 because the Clone Factory actually made clones of each infantry guy you built. So one is the original, one is the clone, making an army of half originals, half clones. It doesn't work for Star Wars because every single clone comes from the same guy.
- I don't know where you got the idea that the Gunship is armoured. It has an exposed transport compartment! Combine this with the fact it is clearly slower than other aircraft we've seen and it would be possibly the weakest aircraft in the Star Wars Universe. Therein lies the answer to balance problems. It is not the AT-AT of the air.

Rebellion
Stuff I like:
- The Rebel Sniper is quite different to the Clone one.
- Units with R2s can self repair up to 50%
Stuff I don't like:
- Rebel Commander should be able to get in an X-Wing to give support to Aircraft like other civs do with Mechs.


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Old 04-05-2004, 06:59 AM   #4
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luke-
1. Good question - im not sure why, but im sure it's for a good reason

2. Do you mean when they fire or when they explode? When they explode, they do indeed damage nearby allied units, though only in a small radius

3. See above

4. Well, when buildings are Garrisoned, they fire right? Well for the Empire, the buildings will fire all by themselves, garrisoned or not, although ungarrisoned buildings dont deal out much damage

5. TIE Fighters are cheaper, and good for providing air cover for your forces, whereas the TIE Interceptor is somewhat more expensive and is best for attacking bombers before they get to your base

6. Jedi/Sith can detect all units, and im thinking of giving Officers/Commanders that ability as well

7. Possibly, but then there was a poll a little while back and the forum said they wanted Sniper's for the Republic instead of Repeater Troopers

8. The problem there is that you would then be able to put, for example, a grand total of 2 Jedi into one Gunship and that seems a bit low for me

9. The building then is useable by the Rebellion

10. Because that's the job of the T-47, besides, the B-wing isnt only useful against Mechs

Vostok-
General-
1. Command versions get weaker weapons because they need the room for communications gear, but also to discourage people simply making armies of Command AT-ST's for example. The Officer is a very useful unit, but needs to be protected

2. Water transports, this just seems to be the easiest way to do things

3. Resources - part of my strategy of concentrating more on battle, but like everything else it can be changed

Confederacy-
1. Dont know why i did that, i'll get back to you

2. I really dont see the Geonosians as part of the Seperatists, just as weapons manufacturers, and i just figured they werent needed, and would look out of place on the Galactic Battlegrounds

Empire-
1. Well, cant do much about that unless you tell me why they are bland

Republic-
1. Clone Factory - this building is there to represent the clone army, and also takes some of the burden of the clones off the player, considering they are the most expensive infantry in the game

2. I didnt say it was well armoured, just that it has some. As good as it is, if you send them out without starfighter support they will be slaughtered by fighters

Rebels-
1. Well, the only thing with that is that it's too complicated. I guess it could be done, but i think id prefer the Commander to be in a T-47 instead if i were to do it


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Old 04-05-2004, 05:44 PM   #5
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You should have used continuous numbering in your reply, Windu...

Comments on Windu's comments on my comments:
General
1. I'm not suggesting they get stronger, just that they don't get weaker. If they get weaker it will make people hide them rather than have them lead. Also I assume Officer auras aren't cumulative, so making an army of Officer Mechs would be rather pointless, and hideously expensive, so there isn't a problem there.

2. That is the easiest way to do water transports, it's true. That doesn't make it the best. Transporting units is supposed to be complicated, requiring a bit of thinking. Please don't take RoN's crappy answer to it.

3. If you want to concentrate more on battle, you should do things like C&C Generals does. They only have one resource which can run out, but late in the game you can build units or buildings that generate cash for you - much like the banking building the Confederacy have in your plan. This means early in the game resources are an issue, but late in the game they aren't at all. By the time you've run out of resources, you've hopefully set up enough credit-generating buildings or units that you are set.

Confederacy
4 (start continuous numbering). Okay, you had better get back to me...

5. Sure the Geonosians are manufacturers, but they are still a large part of the Confederacy. And they have such cool units it would be a shame not to add them. The Geonosian Fighter, Geonosian Warrior and Sonic Cannon at the very least should be included, and maybe the Picador, and Drone to have a second type of worker. My second favourite scene-not-in-the-movies sees a whole heap of Geonosian Warriors descending from the skies to attack a group of Clones. They should be there.

Empire
6. Well none of the units have any special abilities, the civ as a whole has no cool abilities... I don't know, just seems a little boring.

Republic
7. But the Clone Factory doesn't make any sense! You aren't cloning each Clone Trooper, you're cloning just the one guy! Some ideas from other games are okay, but when they don't fit the context they are not okay. What about just building that doubles the production speed of barracks in a radius? Makes much more sense for Star Wars.

8. Well if the Gunship has some armour then every single aircraft in Star Wars has some armour, because the Gunship is possibly the lowest armoured aircraft in the movies.

Rebels
9. I don't see how it is moe complicated than putting a guy in a Mech, and not having it greatly disadvantages the Rebels. While other civs can have Commanders for both infantry and mechs, the Rebels can only do so for infantry. A little unblanaced don't you think?


Oh and by the way, I liked your Republic reinforcement idea so much I mentioned it on the Star Wars: Imperial Assault forums, because I think it is perfect for a Generals Power. I gave you the credit though, just thought you might like to know.


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Old 04-05-2004, 09:34 PM   #6
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Reply to Windu's comment toward me

9. Only one thing...I know that...I just wanted to know if the Rebel Commando could capture more then one building or is it a one-time use unit?

I thought the SnowSpeeder had the worst armor by far...


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Old 04-05-2004, 10:37 PM   #7
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Well despite the fact they had to remove armour to adapt them to the cold, I still think the Gunship would be easier to kill. I mean look at it, it has an open passenger deck! Also I feel I should add that the Gunship does not have sheilds in case any one was under the impression they did. We know this because Mace Windu uses his lightsaber to deflect an incoming bolt whilst travelling in a gunship.

The Gunships vulnerability is key to balancing out it's effectiveness. Here we have the perfect case of where Reality makes better Gameplay. Yes, it is well armed, it can transport troops and has missiles, but it is easy to kill.


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Old 04-06-2004, 12:20 AM   #8
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I see. So the gunship would be rather slow moving, have lousy armor but great firepower.
Perhaps we should make it vulnerable to interceptor units(A-Wing, Tie interceptor)?


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Old 04-06-2004, 12:37 AM   #9
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The only problem I have is the Jedi Padawan is cheap and fast building..... We are talking about a Jedi here right. Jedi Infantry I repeat a quote from Mace Windu. "We are keepers of the peace not soldiers" And the creatures strong vs Jedi hell they couldn't even kill Padme and they were all unarmed.

The gunship should be weak vs missiles and other fighters gun fire. Not so agile or as fast as most fighters.
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Old 04-06-2004, 10:00 AM   #10
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Vostok-
1. Yeah, but then why would you have just standard AT-ST's when you can have command AT-ST's?

2. Well, that all depends on keeping water combat

3. That could be done

4. I removed it

5. As i said, i just dont see them as part of the Confederacy military. That would be like having Kaminoan units in the Republican army

6. Not much i can do about that...

7. Well...i like it. As i said, it is part of the cloning process and makes Clone Troopers a bit more econjomical considering their high cost

8. That depends on your point of view

9. I've just added a Command T-47 Airspeeder

luke-
It would be a one-use-only unit

Froz-
Remember though that you are building Padawans/Apprentices, they have to earn their Knight status.


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Old 04-06-2004, 04:52 PM   #11
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1. Because Command AT-STs are more expensive (you have to build the Commander). I'm assuming the Commander is killed when his AT-ST is also killed, so if you've got an army of Command AT-STs that's a lot of money wasted everytime one dies.

2. Indeed. Which in your template you are. So no to no-effort-transports.

5. You did see Attack of the Clones, right? As I remember it, the Kaminoans did no fighting whatsoever, whereas a lot of Jedi were killed by Geonosians. So your analogy makes no sense.

7. Well I think the fact it is an obvious rip-off, combined with the fact it relates in no way whatsoever to the movies makes it a bad idea.

8. No it doesn't, it's a fact. Luke's Dad and Froz described the Gunship perfectly. Not too speedy, not agile, not armoured much, but with great firepower and transport capabilities.

10. I also think Jedi Padawans should not be cheap and fast building. There will be too many of them around if that is the case.


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Old 04-07-2004, 02:25 AM   #12
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Geonosians are apart of the Confederacy military they killed countless Jedi in the arena, if you saw the extension of the clone war on dvd you would have seen a swarm of geos flying towards the clone troopers and being shot down.
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Old 04-07-2004, 09:50 AM   #13
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Vostok-
1. Yes, the Officer would be killed, but i still think the Command AT-ST and it's eqivalents need to be more vulnerable than standard AT-ST's, just like an Imperial Officer is more vulnerable than a Stormtrooper

2. I'm actually considering removing all naval units at the moment

5. Of course i did, but what im saying is that the Geonosians are weapons builders for the Confederacy, and only engaged the Republic because their world was being invaded - think of them as Geonosian 'National Guard'

7. I can change it to your suggestion of reducing Tropper building times/costs

8. Again, i didnt say it was well-armoured, but you have to remember than Battle Droid weapons didnt even dent the Gunships - they would only be vulnerable to heavy weapons

10. I suppose you're right, okay, ill make them slightly longer to build and more expensive

FroZ-
As i just said to Vostok, the Geonosians were fighting because their world had been invaded by the Republic, not because they were a part of the Confederacy military


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Old 04-07-2004, 12:46 PM   #14
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Hi again people - just letting you know that i have made some major changes to my template, effective as of 07/04/2004. The changes i have made are-

1. Removal of all Naval Units and water combat

2. Addition of Republic 'V-19' Starfighter as a stop-gap before players can access the superb Jedi Starfighter

3. Addition of the 'Imperial Plasma Trooper' to do...well read my template and you'll find out

I've also made a few changs to the website itself, i'd appreciate feedback on that as well.

Thanks.


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Old 04-07-2004, 11:45 PM   #15
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You forgot to get rid of the Clone Factory. It is so wrong. How about making it when you build the Clone Factory, infantry are produced twice as fast?

As for Geonosians, I see your point. Geonosian National Guard was a good analogy for once. I haven't seen any of the Clone Wars animations, do Geonosians fight in them?


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Old 04-08-2004, 01:31 AM   #16
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Vostok - alright, it's changed. The Clone Factory now halves the building time and cost of non-Jedi infantry units

BTW what did you think of my other changes, and the template overall?


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Old 04-08-2004, 01:57 AM   #17
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Geonosians did fight in the Clone Wars but it was cut out, I guess the editors needed to cut down time.

I can see all the bonuses but what about the disadvantages, we see Confed with max population but where the disadvantage to counter that huge bonus they get.

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Old 04-08-2004, 04:43 AM   #18
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FroZ - i have already addressed that. I said that, yes, the Geonosians did fight, but they were fighting to defend their planet from the Republic, not as part of the Confederacy military.


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Old 04-08-2004, 03:39 PM   #19
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So guarding the Seperatists leaders and droid factories is just defending there planet?

I can't believe you honestly believe the geonosians didn't sign the treaty and join the Seperatists and hand over there military to them.

Ohhh and a quote from you Windu PROVE IT!!!!!
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Old 04-08-2004, 09:35 PM   #20
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Geonosians did sign the treaty, however do you think they would contribute Geonosians to the Confederacy Army, or battle droids?

I tend to agree with Windu on this one. The only reason the Geonosians fought in the Battle of Geonosis (note this is not the entire Clone Wars) is because their planet was being invaded.


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Old 04-09-2004, 01:39 AM   #21
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FroZ - well actually, i don't recall the Geonosians actually signing the treaty, but anyway the Geonosians are weapons builders, not part of the Confed army.

Their economy rests on producing weapons for the Techno Union, Trade Federation etc - so of course they will protect the leaders!

The thing is though, that the Confed army is DISPOSABLE - ie battle droids, droid tanks, AAT's dont strain manufacturing capability, all you have to do is build a new one. Geonosians, on the other hand, have to be born and grown, and due to their weapons-building enterprises, are not disposable.


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Old 04-09-2004, 07:13 AM   #22
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The geonosian fighters played a huge role in the Clone Wars and in the micro series we actually saw hundreds of them flying Anakin and the clones in space . Geonosians were piloting them so there they are apart of there military.
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Old 04-09-2004, 08:02 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
(1) The geonosian fighters played a huge role in the Clone Wars and (2) in the micro series we actually saw hundreds of them (3) flying Anakin and the clones in space . (4) Geonosians were piloting them so there they are apart of (5) there military.
1. The Geonosians Fighter's didnt even play a big role in the Battle of Geonosis so i don't know how you figured that out

2. So? That's EU.BTW, i havent actually seen the micro-series, where did you see them and what were they doing?

3. I don't understand what you mean by that

4. Piloting what?

5. Whose military? As i said, the Geonosians were fighting to defend their planet from the Republic, not as a part of the Confederacy military.

Think of it this way, if we saw the Republic and Naboo fighting the Confederacy because the Confed's had invaded Naboo, would you automatically assume the Naboo are part of the Republic military?


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Old 04-09-2004, 04:53 PM   #24
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They were protecting a Confederacy battleship. Anakin and the clones in there fighters were attacking the confed ship. Then a wave of geonsian fighters came out of it.

Well the fact that the Confederacy would have no reason to invade the Naboo, so its just a stupid statement.
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Old 04-10-2004, 01:45 AM   #25
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FroZ -
Quote:
Well the fact that the Confederacy would have no reason to invade the Naboo, so its just a stupid statement.
It was a question, not a statement, and you still haven't answered it.


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Old 04-10-2004, 02:14 AM   #26
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UPDATE

Hello folks, i have updated my idea (again) with a few changes, the biggest of these being the introduction of 'Generals'. Before accusations start flying, they arent like C&C: Generals, but basically super-units that you command throughout each civ's single-player campaign. There are therefore only 4 Generals, one for each civ, which are very powerful, hard to kill, have Officer abilities and can garrison almost any mech or aircraft to create a Command version. Unfortunately, my web site is giving me grief so i havent uploaded the new template yet, i'll try again later today. In the meantime, the Generals are-

Confederacy - General Greivous
Empire - Darth Vader
Republic - General Obi-Wan Kenobi*
Rebellion - Luke Skywalker

* When you read my idea, you will see why i have chosen Kenoib over others such as General Windu


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Old 04-10-2004, 02:17 AM   #27
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Sorry I was trying one of your evading methods.

If Naboo were fighting the Confed with the Republic I would not join them, but that still just explain that the geonosian fighters were in space protecting a confed ship which you still haven't accounted for.
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Old 04-10-2004, 02:26 AM   #28
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FroZ - with the Geonosians protecting a Battleships, i really can't say much about it because i haven't seen any of the 'Clone Wars' cartoon's, but that aside, the series is pure EU anyway, and is contradicted by the video game 'Clone Wars' where the Droid Starfighters are the Confed aircraft.


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Old 04-10-2004, 02:34 AM   #29
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The Clone Wars game is pure EU also so you can't have really back your claims up wth that since your such a EU hater.
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Old 04-10-2004, 03:59 AM   #30
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Actually Windu, it isn't "pure" EU, and I in fact think it is the highest form of EU. And Froz is right, the Clone Wars game is EU, and I believe a lower form of EU than the Clone Wars miniseries. Strange that contradiction with EU should concern you, being a "purist" and all...

As for the Geonosians, the fact is until Episode III is released there is no proof one way or the other that the Geonosians do or do not fight alongside the Confederacy, so lets all put aside the flamethrowers yet again.


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Old 04-10-2004, 06:57 AM   #31
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UPDATE AVAILABLE

Well, frankly, i don't care about the Geonosians, the way i see it, they are not part of the Confederacy military and i'm not going to put them in unless there is something in the films that says otherwise.

Anyway, my newest update is available at my site now, so come on people, comment on my new additions!


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Old 04-10-2004, 10:20 AM   #32
FroZticles
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1.You mention there strengths but never there weaknesses

2.Your tech leveling is not that great you have chosen these powerhouse civs and get you want to weaken them with these crappy tech levels.

3. Greivous sounds powerful but it sounds like he will dominate all your other Jedi heroes. (plus we all know my stance of movie heroes in RM)

4. Why does your buildings increase pop limit you want your clone living in the air hanger?

5.Your template is very rushed try to fill it out alot more

6. You said you would explain why you chose obi-wan where is it?

7. Wats the max pop for the civs?

8. There is no visible disadvantages like who has better troops, mechs air or jedi?

9. Your template needs a manage balance half of the things in here like a Ion Cannon........

10. Why is the Jedi starfighter the best we didn't see it do much did not fire its lasers once.

11. I thought your game was inter-galactic battles if your borders should them from landing and setting up bases then its gonna turn out to be the team who can mass the biggest air fleet.
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Old 04-10-2004, 11:55 AM   #33
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1. They don't have any 'weaknesses'. The thing is that each civ has it's own area of strength, and things get balanced out that way, there is no need to weaken them anywhere.

2. There are no tech levels...

3. Well, first off, there will be no Heroes in RM, only in the single-player campaign. Also, the Heroes wouldnt actually fight each other, but Grievous would slaughter Jedi

4. The airbase increases pop limit because that's where the Pilot's would live

5. Like how? I assume you want more detail, but the problem there is that i cant, and wont even try, to balance this down to number of hitpoints or exact armour value - i cant do that and im not trying to do that

6. Because the end of the Confed campaign is the Invasion of Alderaan, and the beginning of the Republic campaign is the Liberation of Alderaan. Remember in Ep4 Leia tells Obi-Wan that "you served my father in the Clone War..."

7. It's actually in the template, it's 600

8. Actually it's pretty easy to see (to me anyway). For example, the Republic has very powerful, but very expensive, Infantry. The Confederacy have the weakest air, but they are built quickly and cheaply.

9. I'm not sure what you point is

10. Simple, because it's piloted by Jedi

11. I'm not quite sure i understand your question correctly, but anyway borders only affect where you can build structures and what resources you can collect - nothing else.


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Old 04-10-2004, 05:19 PM   #34
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1. So a troop isnt weak against a gunship?

2. What do you exspect to limit your players with? AT-AT fireing at your base in 5mins of game time?

3. Good to hear

6. Hopefully we will have a great Ep 3 battle where Obi-Wan slices off nearly off of anakins limbs.

9. Things like a Ion cannon won't that overpower a civ?

10. Hmmm I guess it could work.
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:32 AM   #35
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1. Oh right, i thought you meant weaknesses for the Civ's as a whole. My template outlines what units are good and bad against. An example is the Gunship, it rips apart battlefield units, but is easily killed by Fighters of Anti-Air emplacements

2. You should read the template again. In it, i state that there is an area of research called Military Research. By investing in this, you gain access to new units and upgrade unit armour, speed, firepower etc with the frequency of units and upgrades depending on the amount of Credits you invest. So, with the Empire, you would only have access to a few units, but by investing in Military Research you would gain access to the AT-PT, then the AT-ST and finally AT-AT

6. Well, i dont see how that has to do with my campaign idea, but still...

9. Nope. You have to remember that the Rebels have the Ion Canon, the Republic has the Forward Command Post, the Confederacy has the Droid Control Center, and the Empire has the Starfleet Uplink. Each is very powerful/useful in it's own right, and since each civ gets one, they wont be advantaged

10. I thought so


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Old 04-11-2004, 06:43 AM   #36
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6. It wasn't a idea it was relaying to the upcoming movie.
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:31 PM   #37
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FroZ - yeah, but it has absolutely nothing to do with my idea...


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Old 04-12-2004, 08:56 AM   #38
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So everyone agree's then that my idea is a perfect rendition of what SWGB2 should be like?


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Old 04-12-2004, 09:52 AM   #39
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I don't care about SWGB2 any more cos I've just heard that someone's making a WH40K RTS.
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Old 04-12-2004, 02:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
So everyone agree's then that my idea is a perfect rendition of what SWGB2 should be like?

NO!

It's not my perfect game but hey, it's what YOU want. We only send out our criticism.


http://www.marioramos.ca/ -A friend of mine and an aspiring filmmaker.
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