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View Poll Results: Should there be Naval Units in SWGB2?
Yes 2 20.00%
No 7 70.00%
Undecided 1 10.00%
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:57 AM   #1
Darth Windu
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Should there be Naval Units in SWGB2?

The title says it all. Basically, the situation is that we have seen no military naval units, and about 3 civilian water units in the 5 films so far.

Naval combat also seems to be a waste of time for the Republic, Empire, Confederacy and Rebellion due to the fact that their assaults need to be flexible and everything essential is on the ground - so why have a Navy?


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Old 04-07-2004, 02:21 PM   #2
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Isn't this already a topic?
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Old 04-08-2004, 12:37 AM   #3
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"save the navy!"


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Old 04-08-2004, 12:56 AM   #4
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Yes this is already a topic, though mine doesn't have a poll.

I voted No, but if we see even one military water vessel in Episode III then I might change my mind.


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Old 04-08-2004, 03:16 AM   #5
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I voted no because it's not really a significant part of Star Wars. Yet.


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Old 04-08-2004, 07:23 PM   #6
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I can't decide. From a Star Wars point of view, naval combat makes no sense at all (unless SWGB2 includes the aquatic cat people from ROTJ comic ) but from an RTS point of view navies add an extra dimension and the game would be less interesting without them. But what if Ziff Kalasco has a boat? That could really tip the balance...
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Old 04-09-2004, 12:11 AM   #7
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Indeed it could tip the balance...


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Old 04-09-2004, 08:24 AM   #8
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Ziff Kalasco is nothing more than a rookiee fight Vyeska Zayek could mop the floor with him.
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Old 04-09-2004, 12:02 PM   #9
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Naval Combat is a part of war, but now i'm not so sure if i really want it in SWGB II. Unless they change the system a bit, i guess it really isn't worth it, even if there are naval battles in Ep. III. Most civs suck in combat and its just a waste of resources to build a shipyard unless you need a water transport. For now, i guess i vote no, but i hope they at least change the system of the naval combat (such as making more civs havin stronger ships)

Ships can be a lot of use as well. If you control the seas, It will definately make it easier for you to get to them, and harder for them to get to you. Course, if you have a civ that has weak ships, it will be a tad harder. But if you think that ships are waste of time, its your funeral. 'Nuf said.


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Old 04-09-2004, 02:14 PM   #10
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I agree with the general feeling. No naval units in the movies, no naval units in the game.

And Star Wars was originally all about space combat (prequel is more Jedi-oriented, but whatever). There's no place for naval stuff in the SW universe.


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Old 04-09-2004, 04:57 PM   #11
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I hate purists......


Anyway, extend the movies a little!!! Besides, if water seperates two enemies, and air isn't the way due to a lot of AA turrets, water is the only way to go.

This is a STRATEGY game. NAVAL COMBAT is part of strategy. Everything that is in war is part of STRATEGY. Get used to it!!!


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Old 04-09-2004, 05:36 PM   #12
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So... which side are you on Mastern? You say no to naval combat, then Darth agrees, then you say naval combat is a necessity!

And why exactly do you hate purists?


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Old 04-09-2004, 05:44 PM   #13
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Mastern your baseing your thoughts on SWGB, we want a new engine or a nice superior current engine. With the way Lucasarts is booming with there games and bringing out 1st ever additons with the new MMORPS Battlefront. It is only getting better.
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Old 04-10-2004, 01:37 AM   #14
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@ mastern64 :


If we were all real purists, we wouldn't be here. We would be in front a a huge flat screen TV looking at the classic movies.

But naval combat just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, it's a strat game, but it's also a SW game. If we include naval stuff, we take the game away from the SW universe.


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Old 04-10-2004, 03:42 AM   #15
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With the sudden departure of boats your all forgetting one major down fall the lose of a resource fish!!!!!
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Old 04-10-2004, 07:41 AM   #16
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That assumes that food will be a resource in SWGB2...

In my template, i only have Metal and Credits.


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Old 04-10-2004, 11:22 AM   #17
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Thats because you don't play online you want the fastest way to get your army finished and complete the campaigns. Others like a strategic game.
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Old 04-10-2004, 12:46 PM   #18
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How, exactly, is removing food and re-vamping the resource system going to change that?


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Old 04-10-2004, 08:09 PM   #19
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Less ressources, less economical micro, less strategy.

So basically, when you feed your troopers, you feed them with metal and credits...interesting(except for the Separatist which kinda makes sense)


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Old 04-10-2004, 09:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Less ressources, less economical micro, less strategy.
You could also say : Less ressources, less economical crap, more micro of the units


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Old 04-10-2004, 11:53 PM   #21
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In early games, economical micro means everything. Reducing it will turn it into...well a simple, like a good old forummer who hasn't been here in a long time, clickfest.

Just pumping out units and attacking the enemy without caring about anything else...yes...so strategic...


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Old 04-11-2004, 12:37 AM   #22
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Its gotta be a balance we all need the space naval battles but we also want the groud battles and saber fights it a comprimise!
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:32 AM   #23
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How are you gonna fill out your maps Windu just have a bunch of metal desposits everywhere. Troops do eat and they also need carbon for there armor.

You don't have tech levels either so your template is a click fest hardly any stratergy involved.
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Old 04-11-2004, 03:25 AM   #24
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luke - in the C&C series, there's only one resource and it's not a click-fest. Plus, you have to remember that you can only harvest resources within your borders, and at a rate defined by your amount of Economic Research (ie if you dont invest in Economic Research, you wont gather resources very fast). In addition, all resources are finite (Nova - which is delivered as Credits, and Metal) so in the end game players will need to have constructed and defended a few Spaceports to keep their economy going.

Jabba - actually we dont want Space battles in this game

FroZ - there will be Metal and Nova deposits, the Nova delivered as Credits. When you contruct a unit, it will require a certain amount of Credits and/or Metal. With Infantry, you do realise that the Credit cost translates into the purchasing of equipment and food for them right?
Also, no, i dont have tech levels because they are an abomination, slowing down gameplay and hurting realism.


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Old 04-11-2004, 07:46 AM   #25
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Your just cutting corners tech levels are the best way to go about it. 2 resoucres is far to easy people will be bored since the games will end so fast.
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:24 PM   #26
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FroZ - tech levels hurt gameplay and are unrealistic - they are relics of the past. In terms of Resources, you obviously havent played the C&C series, i've actually had long, intense games which are more fun than SWGB because your miners only collect one resource, and do that automatically, so the player can concentrate of war.


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Old 04-11-2004, 03:53 PM   #27
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I'm well aware of C&C gameplay I own quite a few titles myself. You want to know why there online community lasts a month cause of the gameplay you praise so much.
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Old 04-11-2004, 09:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
In early games, economical micro means everything. Reducing it will turn it into...well a simple, like a good old forummer who hasn't been here in a long time, clickfest.

Just pumping out units and attacking the enemy without caring about anything else...yes...so strategic...
Oh please, WC3 puts emphasis on unit micro, not on economical. IF you know how to play, it's much more strategy than AoE and SWGB.

...or lets say it's a different type of strategy, to stay politically correct


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Old 04-11-2004, 10:33 PM   #29
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Exactly, more resources doesn't mean more strategy. It means more economy, but not more strategy. In fact I'm revamping my template and reducing it down to one collectable resource, because I think having only Credits suits Star Wars better.

Let's not forget there are other "kinds" of resources. My new idea has Credits (collectable from deposits on the map and through other means) as well as Power (which operates like the C&C Games) and Population (which operates like the Age titles).


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Old 04-12-2004, 02:21 AM   #30
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Thats quite true. I have, in addition to collectable resources, population which must be researched (Civic) and then increased by the building of Barracks, Airbases etc and also Power which you have to have or your base simply wont function.


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Old 04-12-2004, 02:58 AM   #31
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Having more ressources pushes you to concentrate on looking for them and controlling the ressources. When you have 3-4 ressources, each one of them has a certain importance and each one of them has a degree of rareness on the map.

You're going to have to actually think about securing some Metal deposits while keeping the flow of credits constant and keep your food storehouses full.

When you have only one(this excluding power cores and population which are not ressources). It narrows down to leaving a few units around some location where the particular ressource is, leaving it there, not really caring about it since there's another one just around the corner.

Windu- If I recall, your vaunted RoN has a lot of ressources...interesting...
And claiming that tech levels hurt realism while keeping Nova is like...well saying black is better then white and then buy white stuff...

Darth54- I see you are correct. It is a different type of strategy. But then I've been playing a lot of CivIII...


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Old 04-12-2004, 06:04 AM   #32
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darth-WC3 is not an RTS its a RPS so stop comparing it with SWGB. SWGB is ten times the game WC3 ever will be and I know WC3 and TFT I played the campaigns and I want my money back.
IMO it isnt a click fest its a hero fest you hero rush your enemy send a few troops along for the ride very boring.

Vostok- Just killed your template.

Windu- Your template is a mixture of games so obvious, I find it very hard to find any direction of gameplay

Three or more resources slow down gameplay this is good because it keeps you interested in the game longer than just a credit grind....
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Old 04-12-2004, 10:07 AM   #33
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luke - no, having 3-4 resources forces players to concentrate on building cities, not armies.
As for RoN, it does indeed have many resources, but i prefer the system Vostok and I have come up with to the RoN system.
With Nova, as i said it still exists, but it is basically just a physical manifestation of Credits - the name can be changed.

Getting back to the point, with resources, we have to ask one simple question. WHY AM I PLAYING THIS GAME?

Are we playing to build up big bases, concentrating on finding x-amount of different resources and have to constantly check what tech level we are at while producing small forces for skirmishes

OR

Are we playing to produce huge armies, and to fight our enemies in epic battles, while the base more-or-less takes care of itself, although the initial setting-up of the base requires a lot of attention?


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Old 04-12-2004, 10:48 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Are we playing to build up big bases, concentrating on finding x-amount of different resources and have to constantly check what tech level we are at while producing small forces for skirmishes

OR

Are we playing to produce huge armies, and to fight our enemies in epic battles, while the base more-or-less takes care of itself, although the initial setting-up of the base requires a lot of attention?
Both. In SWGB (at least in team games, 1v1 is different) we build big bases and find and control the different resources but only so we can build big armies and fight epic battles. Having a good economy is not the whole point of the game, it's just a means to an end. If you can build a big army without the resource management it just gets too easy and boring. If you don't have significant resource management in the game you can just build as many of whatever type of unit you want, and where's the strategy in that?
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Old 04-12-2004, 03:28 PM   #35
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No one could have said it better saber.


EDIT: OOps I have mistaken saber for Froz. Sorry man


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Old 04-12-2004, 03:57 PM   #36
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saber - you missed the point i was trying to make. What im asking what do we want the focus of SWGB2 to be on? Do we want to micro-manage our base/economy etc or do we want a bit more automation of those features so the player can concentrate more on battles and how those battles are played out? Personally, i would gladly reduce economic micro-management for more battle-time, because really that is the whole reason people buy RTS' - to fight. Otherwise, people can go out and buy SimCity.


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Old 04-12-2004, 04:00 PM   #37
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saber - you missed the point i was trying to make. What im asking what do we want the focus of SWGB2 to be on? Do we want to micro-manage our base/economy etc or do we want a bit more automation of those features so the player can concentrate more on battles and how those battles are played out? Personally, i would gladly reduce economic micro-management for more battle-time, because really that is the whole reason people buy RTS' - to fight. Otherwise, people can go out and buy SimCity.

As for strategy, i made up for the reduction of economic-micro by adding the different research features, the concept of borders, and also the different pop-slot system (ie 8 Stormtroopers or 1 AT-AT).
This allows players to concentrate more on HOW they will fight the battle. As example is using the AT-AT. It is very powerful and well-armoured, but completely defenceless from the rear. Therefore, Imperial players will need to make sure their AT-AT's have escorts to protect them from flanking attacks.


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Old 04-12-2004, 04:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
darth-WC3 is not an RTS its a RPS so stop comparing it with SWGB.
About time someone realizes that! I've been saying this for ages...

Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
SWGB is ten times the game WC3 ever will be and I know WC3 and TFT I played the campaigns and I want my money back.
IMO it isnt a click fest its a hero fest you hero rush your enemy send a few troops along for the ride very boring.
You played through the campaigns? Congrats man! You've officially played 5 % of WC3!

And heroes *have* to be important. You said yourself it was an RPS

(and just to keep the subject on-topic)

I'd say go for 2 resources. Keep the credits as the main one, but add another one used to make more specific stuff, such as advanced mechs and the like.

Quote:
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Personally, i would gladly reduce economic micro-management for more battle-time, because really that is the whole reason people buy RTS' - to fight. Otherwise, people can go out and buy SimCity.
I agree 100%


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Old 04-12-2004, 04:50 PM   #39
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darth- I played it online for 3 months while having a break from SWGB and got bored of the constant heroes and spells.

Windu- upping your pop slots and an extra research or 2 is no replacement for 3 missing resources you haven't reduced economic micro managment you killed it altogether
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Old 04-12-2004, 05:44 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by FroZticles
darth- I played it online for 3 months while having a break from SWGB and got bored of the constant heroes and spells.
Well, what's the point of playing WC3 if you don't like heroes?

Windu : I just noticed what you said about borders. I don't like it. Borders are fine for games such as RoN (in which you actually build cities), but in a future SW RTS, I doubt it would work correctly.

I agree for the pop. stuff though (8 storms = 1 atat, ect.)


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