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Old 05-08-2004, 12:17 PM   #1
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Brainstorming: Combat animations

Time for some public suggestions.

Here are what you have to work with.

scripted saber locks.

These will randomly replace saber locks with a scripted sequence of attacks.

here is an example
http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/obi_wan.gif
http://www.aotctc.com/forums/files/darth_maul.gif

Melee and Grab attacks mixed in to the saber attack chains/combo's

and finally

Counter attacks after blocks and parries.

I need ideas references, balancing traits, etc...


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Old 05-08-2004, 12:40 PM   #2
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Try the sequence where it's just Qui-gon and Darth Maul fighting at the end of TPM: those would be a lot more controlled and not as spinny, which would make for some variety.

If you're going to toss Melee and Grab in between saber combos, the defender needs a defense against it; I'm not sure what that would be (and it would obviously be a coding issue as well) but you'd need a block anim for those - since it doesn't make sense to see the saber blocking hands and doing no damage...


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Old 05-08-2004, 03:53 PM   #3
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Well, my thoughts on counter defense is that the saber should have full attack damage even when idle, since you're technically jumping onto the blade. But this wouldn't apply if you knock your opponent into a knockback first.

This way you ever have to be really good, or knock your opponent into a knockback before attempting a counter attack/melee attack. However, to make up for this, melee/counter strikes would cause a nasty fatigue hit and either knock you on your butt or make you stumble across the room.

For that to work, we'd also probably need some stumbling animations (where the player stumbles but doesn't fall over).


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Old 05-08-2004, 11:19 PM   #4
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so how does the player get any control over this sequence? like the saber lock, mashing on the fire button to win, or is it just some fancy sequence (I kind of like it though) and a way to improve saber combat is I think make it like enter the matrix; where the player locks onto another player and have a teken style fighting camera angle. and have a block button (use button like ETM) and have it so if you time it right you can counter (just like ETM) I dont know if this is possible but I would love to see it!


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Old 05-09-2004, 06:16 AM   #5
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ETM= Pure evil. Nothing good can come out of it.


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Old 05-09-2004, 07:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by PerfectJamie
so how does the player get any control over this sequence? like the saber lock, mashing on the fire button to win, or is it just some fancy sequence (I kind of like it though) and a way to improve saber combat is I think make it like enter the matrix; where the player locks onto another player and have a teken style fighting camera angle. and have a block button (use button like ETM) and have it so if you time it right you can counter (just like ETM) I dont know if this is possible but I would love to see it!
Ok, I see it going like this....

Players are going at it, one person is defending and one is attacking. The defender gets a successful parry (by pressing in the right direction while holding down block) and knocks the attacker into a knockaway. From there, the defender has serveral choices...run away, strike at the openning, or use a counter attack.

With a counter attack, you'll launch into an attack that physically smashings the attacker causing him to stumble back or get knocked down. Either way, he's going to lose a fair amount of fatigue points and a few hit points.

The idea being so that the fighters can get some physical attacks into a fight AND so that a defender can have a very reasonable chance to block/fight without spamming attack like a monkey.


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Old 05-09-2004, 08:40 AM   #7
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Ya, exactly the only thing the saber will be used in is scripted locks. Because that is what the lock is meant for. everything is with a free hand/hilt, foot or head .


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Old 05-09-2004, 03:40 PM   #8
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Careful, Keshire, sarcasm is very difficult to get over text messaging. Plus, it's very easy to confuse people that way.


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Old 05-09-2004, 08:00 PM   #9
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I like the stumbling idea, that could be used in parries as well, instead of the knockback, just a thought.

On another note, how customizable is the saber lock animations, cause someone had an idea about using the directional keys to pushthe blade in a certain direction and try to force your opponent off balance.
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Old 05-09-2004, 11:56 PM   #10
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I don't think that would be doable. Something simple, like left/right stuff, sure but not a whole bunch of directional stuff.


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Old 05-10-2004, 02:54 PM   #11
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np, sounded pretty good though, lol
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Old 05-10-2004, 03:08 PM   #12
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One question, how come the blocks snap anyway??? Is it to make the block in time, or just a shotty animating job???
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:09 AM   #13
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how about a rock scissor paper rock algorithm? the player gets into saber lock; during the saberlock the 2 players gets two choose one action and one action only (possibly by pressing a direction key), then the outcome and the animation used will be dependent on actions choosen by the player. this means there will be about 9 animation depending on who wins the saberlock with what action.


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Old 05-12-2004, 03:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
this means there will be about 9 animation
Sure, have at it.

There's like two animators for JKA. You trying to give me a heart attack here.


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Old 05-13-2004, 07:09 PM   #15
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lol i forgot there's 3 weapons in JA, that makes 27 animation....


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Old 05-21-2004, 05:17 PM   #16
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I was just wondering, what factor chooses which player does which animation? if animation A matches with animation B then obviously two players can't go into animation A. I am asking because I would like to make something like this aswell


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Old 05-21-2004, 08:34 PM   #17
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You're going to have to be more specific. There's multiple animation control systems going on in multiple layers.


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Old 05-22-2004, 12:19 AM   #18
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I was just wondering, what factor chooses which player does which animation? if animation A matches with animation B then obviously two players can't go into animation A. I am asking because I would like to make something like this aswell
Everything is controlled via code. RazorAce and Renegade have direct control over how its activated and when as well as distance from each other they are activated. Though some forethought is required. If at all possible both sides should start/end close to what you would think would be the best anim to transition to and from.

That scripted lock that I made doesn't do that so it will be difficult to plug it in somewhere.


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Old 05-22-2004, 01:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by keshire
Everything is controlled via code. RazorAce and Renegade have direct control over how its activated and when as well as distance from each other they are activated. Though some forethought is required.
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:40 AM   #20
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And so began the sacrificing of Jawas. And it was good.
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:51 AM   #21
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NOT ON MY WATCH.


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Old 05-22-2004, 05:25 AM   #22
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well I was thinking, I never looked at the animation file so I dont know, but I assume they have specific saberlock animation to match another saberlock animation. (single_leftlock+single_rightlock=a cross made by the two sabers)
then, why won't you replace thoughse anims with these scripted locks? in theory I think it would work if you take out the whole mouse mashing thing (the lock is always a draw)


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Old 05-22-2004, 05:33 AM   #23
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why won't you replace thoughse anims with these scripted locks? in theory I think it would work if you take out the whole mouse mashing thing (the lock is always a draw)
Well I'd like to have both in. Plus this is in relation to Movie Battles. MB already has two lock styles.

regular locks
Micro locks (very short locks, or as I call it "sticky sabers!")
Renegade also wants a third layer called scripted locks that are cinematic and not controlled via the player. These scripted locks would be very rare.

Also your right every lock has a counterpart.

BehaveED has a list of what lock anim goes with what saber and against what saber. We're talking a whole lot of locks as well as transitions to and from.


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Old 05-22-2004, 07:45 AM   #24
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*shrug* I don't know.

The more I look at it, the more I feel that the locks are probably just going to be a sinkhole of effort. While a lot of this stuff would be cool, is it really worth all that effort for the 5 secs that the locks occur in?

Secondly, while locks occur, you're losing a good amount of gameplay control, so is it really worth it?

Note: This doesn't mean that I'm against any of this fancier saber lock stuff, it's just that I'm worry that all the effort isn't going to pay off ingame.


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Old 05-22-2004, 07:56 AM   #25
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Well technically thats the longest one I'll ever do. The rest will be a swipe dodge type of thing. My main foucs is goign to be adding in off hand attacks to the saber attack chain as well as a few counter attacks.


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Old 05-22-2004, 10:08 AM   #26
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The more I look at it, the more I feel that the locks are probably just going to be a sinkhole of effort. While a lot of this stuff would be cool, is it really worth all that effort for the 5 secs that the locks occur in?
Well, if you want to make these fancy scripted locks 'gameplay' features, then yes, you are talking about some significant work.

However, I'm thinking about these only as visual additions. Pure, unadulterated eye candy. Nothing more, nothing less. Each player at the end of the scripted lock would end back up in 'neutral' stances and neither having lost any HP's during.
When you look at it that way, it shouldn't be that much work. You basically trigger them in the same way that saber locks get triggered, although you'd have to do a few extra checks for space behind etc. (in the specific example keshire posted at the top of the thread..)

I am possibly thinking about scripted locks that have a bearing on the gameplay (scripted locks where one duelist is in a stronger position than the other - in MB determined by BP level for example) but even in this case I was planning on keeping it pretty simple... still a pre-determined scripted lock, but one where one player is 'punished' in a pre-defined manner.

..in my view of this, all the really hard work is K's tbh

Quote:
Secondly, while locks occur, you're losing a good amount of gameplay control, so is it really worth it?
As K mentioned, the one he's posted would be - I imagine - the longest I'd ever want in-game. Most of them I would imagine being around a second or so. (depending on how many Keshire can do before he loses his mind! lol)
And I would make the frequency of played scripted locks relational to how long it is. So longer ones get played less often...

This not only keeps gameplay disruption to a minimum, but also keeps these events 'fresh'. If their happenning every couple of seconds, people will very quickly get bored of them...


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Old 05-22-2004, 10:59 AM   #27
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Originally posted by Lei Hng Wei
And so began the sacrificing of Jawas. And it was good.
OMFG so funny so F***ing funny!!!
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Old 05-22-2004, 11:10 AM   #28
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i agree with phunk, saber locks would be some really nice eye candy, eye candy NEVER hurts.
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Old 05-22-2004, 01:44 PM   #29
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Dodge Roll.

You don't even really lose control in that case, but look at all the bitching that resulted from that. If you're going to have any sort of fancy locking stuff, it's going to result in some level of suiciding.


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Old 05-22-2004, 02:30 PM   #30
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dodge roll needs to be tweaked because more than anything people want their hits to count unless the person did something to prevent it, not just happen to have enough of some bar.
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:51 PM   #31
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If you're going to have any sort of fancy locking stuff, it's going to result in some level of suiciding.
To use Keshire's example at the top of this thread - as long as you did basic level ground checks to the appropaite distance behind each player, so that your sure they can walk back the specified distance without falling off ledges or down pits etc., how is it that you see suicides happenning? I don't follow...


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Old 05-22-2004, 03:21 PM   #32
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Good point.

What about other players? It could be nasty if other players try to interfere with these fancy locks.


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Old 05-22-2004, 05:53 PM   #33
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they shouldnt be that long, and hwat would happen if other players messed with the normal lock, whatever happens then should happen there.
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Old 05-22-2004, 11:02 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Gotaiken
they shouldnt be that long, and hwat would happen if other players messed with the normal lock, whatever happens then should happen there.
The lockees die.


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Old 05-22-2004, 11:24 PM   #35
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well there was a JK2 mod that allowed a triple lock (three people at once) it usually occered when one player tried to interfere a lock, mabe that could be used to stop from players to get an advantage over two saber lockers. but I'm not sure what happenes if a fourth saberist tries to interfere. another thing I was thinking of that I saw in ETM (sorry guys) when you countered or the enemy countered an attack then the fighters played a fancy animation that can't be seen normally. mabe the scripted lock can be a counter thing?


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Old 05-23-2004, 12:48 AM   #36
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mabe the scripted lock can be a counter thing?
We're far ahead of you.

Thats what this thread was originally intended for. Suggestions on what type of attacks to use for certain situations.

The scenarios's go as follows


*Insterting melee attacks in the saber attack chain

*scripted locks

*and Counter attacks


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Old 05-23-2004, 01:12 AM   #37
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Personally, I think a bunch of cool melee/counter moves would neato.


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Old 05-23-2004, 02:54 AM   #38
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yea! that would make JA playable again , also I made this suggestion before but I would really love to see this happen, so here goes.......a comba lock on system! the one like in legende of zelda or ETM (again, I love this game) that would seriously make the duels look like the movies!


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Old 05-23-2004, 03:05 AM   #39
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yeah, that's been planned for a long time. I'm just too lazy to impliment it.


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Old 05-23-2004, 03:43 AM   #40
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lol, awww come on~~~ lol oh well I hope you will get around coding it some time


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