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Old 05-17-2004, 03:46 PM   #41
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Joshi: The question of whether or not our souls can be rendered infinite by mirror multiplication is beside the point...your head gets in the way, remember? In order to perceive the infinity contained in the center of those two mirrors, you would have to not exist. There is much which reveals itself from this insight when given ample meditation.

Dr. Edison: Ah, oui? J'espere que vous soyez femme...
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Old 05-17-2004, 06:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
There have always been two trains of thought with this. If any number is divided by zero, then yes, mathematically, it is impossible, computers and calculators can't to it. But the human mind is so much more advance than a computer and calculator. think of it like this. Nothing is nothing. Our universe holds everything and for there to be everything, there must be nothing, it stands to reason. So how much nothing. well you can't put a value on nothing, otherwise it will be something, and therefore it must be infinity. This is more logical thinking than anything else, but then again, most philosophy comes from great amounts of logical thinking (and I was actually quite surprised at how well that just turned out)
sure.. i just was pointing out that "normal" math does not allow division by zero. many mathematic formulas and methods (if not all) are based on that principle. math works this way.
of course, our brain is able to think up a solution for this matter (math found its way, too, what i've pointed out i think).
also "nothing" clearly got a mathematic value: 0. and theoretically and according to the aforementioned mathematic principle, if you divide something by 0 the result will be "infinite". but then that must be also right if you divide 0 by 0. that would mean you make anything from nothing. hmm.. sounds familar.. somehow..
neither way zero (nothing) will be infinte because you have to put it into a formula first.


Quote:
Well technically yes, if you take the biggest numberyou can think of and then divide one by it, you will get something extremely close to 0, but as i said with the laws of x/y=z therefore x/z=y, and as I've just proved, if my soul is divided by 0 it makes infinity, so if my soul is divided by infinity, it must be 0.
as i said infinity (unlike nothing or zero) is not an exact value. there is always a "bigger" infinity, infinity is infinite (hey!! how clever.. ), you cannot give it a number, because there always will be a bigger number. so if you divide something by 2 and two is "defined infinity" and that will give 0, what if you divide it by 3 as bigger infinity? (x/2)=(x/3) can only be true (and zero), if x (something) is 0 (nothing). but "divide" nothing is not what we want right?

because of that your soul cannot be zero'd because infinity is never the "end".

now to the physics.

your "experiment" is only possible if you use a "perfect" mirror. means: all the lightrays that "hit" the mirrors surface a reflected without any further effect to them and it must be perfectly even. the mirrors today are far away from those specification. there are always lightrays absorbed, left through or "changed" in other manner.

the second problem are you. you are not a perfect reflector, too. means: your "surface" absorbs lightrays too.

that means because of a "finite" infinite number of lightrays, it is quite possible that all of the lightrays are absorbed after a while. that means there will be a countable number of reflections, what again means that your soul would be only decreased and not zero'd.

even if we put those matters aside, you'd have to use infinte large mirrors other wise the lightrays would "escape" from the mirrors pretty fast.

wow. i just used the word lightrays 2374515459 times. why? ah. mirrors are mainly reflecting the visible electromagnetic spectrum, called light, modeled as lightrays. so.. are souls made of light, neil?
(also interesting to see if someone makes a ray joke out of lightrays.. )



Last edited by RayJones; 05-17-2004 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 05-18-2004, 03:47 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by RayJones
the second problem are you. you are not a perfect reflector, too. means: your "surface" absorbs lightrays too.
In other words, your head gets in the way.


Quote:
(also interesting to see if someone makes a ray joke out of lightrays.. )
Ooh...you're a bright one!




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Old 05-18-2004, 08:01 AM   #44
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Zoom
So you're basically harking back to that age old theory that a subject cannot exsist unless it is percieved and therefore there cannot be an infinate amount of me as I cannot see them because my head gets in the way. Well you have to think about it in a different sort of way. If you face two mirrors to each other, in parallel, each mirror will see itself reflectd to infinity (we are not between them). Therefore, if you stand between each mirror, you are reflcted in each of them. well if you are reflected in each of them (i.e, you're image appears on both of them) then you must be reflected on all of the mirrors that you saw before your head got in the way. Therefore you are reflected to infinity.

Ray
You are right of coure, most normal maths consists of the theory that anything divided by 0 can't be donw which is why stuff like logarithms and exponentials come into it.

If 0 is nothing, then 1 must be everything, therefore, if you divide 0 by 0 and get one 9which seems rational, but doesn't work that way) you must get everything, i.e, infinity.

That was a very loose statement by the way, don't read too much into it, I basically came up with it on the spur of the moment there.

Now, the whole infinity is not a realy value thing. well ye, tht is true, but then it is not a variable either, if you multiply infinity by 3 you still get infinity, not 3infinity, it doesn't work like that . therefore, if you dive a number by 0, it is quite possible to get infinity.
and finally you physics. well i was never planning to do this at all and even if i did, I wouldn't buy a cheap plastic mirror to demonstrate it. Putting all of that aside though, the theory still stands.

Oh, and zoom, that's not a ray joke, ray jokes tend to have a lot more innuendo in them. Try:

Oh...you're a bright one...wet T-shirts!!

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Old 05-18-2004, 03:47 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi

So you're basically harking back to that age old theory that a subject cannot exsist unless it is percieved and therefore there cannot be an infinate amount of me as I cannot see them because my head gets in the way. Well you have to think about it in a different sort of way. If you face two mirrors to each other, in parallel, each mirror will see itself reflectd to infinity (we are not between them). Therefore, if you stand between each mirror, you are reflcted in each of them. well if you are reflected in each of them (i.e, you're image appears on both of them) then you must be reflected on all of the mirrors that you saw before your head got in the way. Therefore you are reflected to infinity.
I can't even talk to you guys anymore.


Just because people think what I say don't make sense, doesn't mean I don't like popsicles.
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Old 05-18-2004, 04:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skinkie
I can't even talk to you guys anymore.
yeah, that was the plan. Hee Hee Hee!




Kidding.

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Old 05-18-2004, 06:11 PM   #47
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zoom: yes yes, no no, yes. of course.. err..
.. uuhhmmm.. why.. how.. what.. tse. short attention span?

-> "as zoom said, joshis head gets in the way because joshis head absorbs lightrays or reflects them."



joshi: 3 times infinity is 3infinity, of course! only that math says infinity is infinity no matter "how often". but 3infinity is more infinite than infinity.
however, how you want to "share" something among nothing is still unclear.

and.. hey.. the "bright" one was really unexpected.. (ehehe)..

but wet t-shirts, joshi?


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Old 05-19-2004, 04:26 AM   #48
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Or, how about: Ooh...you're a bright one...shaved chickens!



Skinkie: Of course you can talk to us; the question is, if you posted and no one ever downloaded the page...did you actually say anything?

Joshi: Well, I would make the argument that everything in the universe is perceived...by God, who doesn't have a head to get in the way. I would launch into a long speech about deific perception being the universally uniting principle implied by the Bell Theorem in quantum physics ('spooky action at a distance,' etc.) and elegantly draw thusly direct comparisons between the ideas of science and religion, but Skinkie has really had enough of this high faluting hyperbabble and is probably bored enough with it by now that he just wants to close the window and go get some ice cream.
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:39 AM   #49
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chicken...

so why did the chicken cross the street?




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Old 05-19-2004, 11:16 AM   #50
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Post It takes a tough man...

Quote:
Originally posted by DrMcCoy
so why did the chicken cross the street?
Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a ornithologist!

Hey wait! That's your line!


Native XWA.Netter (Nutter?)
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:25 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by RayJones
joshi: 3 times infinity is 3infinity, of course! only that math says infinity is infinity no matter "how often". but 3infinity is more infinite than infinity.
however, how you want to "share" something among nothing is still unclear.
3x is 3 times x, fine, that's because x can be defined as a constant value. Infinity cannot be defined as a constant value, it is infinate. to multiply the infinate by 3 is stupid because you can get 3 multiplied by everything, it's mathematically impossible, therefore, 3 X infinity is infinity.

Secondly, there is no how about it, if you try to share something among nothing, you are asking how many nothings are there for me to share into this something, which is infinate, therefore, if we share something among infinity, we end up with nothing. It's a simple concept.

And Zoom, who's to say god head doesn't get in the way? Who's to say god even has a head, or maybe he has tentacles. Do we know?

You know, if we created two objects in some 3D software that could reflect the surface it sees and face them towards each other in parallel, would we stare into infinity (assuming that our viewpoint is between both reflective surfaces and we don't inadvertantly create a head)?

And if no one downloaded the page he still would have said something as he would have percieved it. If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it does it make a sound? Yes, the tree saw it happen and heard it crash. it cannot tell us, but it is a living thing following the basic principles of MRSGREN and therefore the answer must be yes. (here we go)

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Old 05-19-2004, 06:25 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
3x is 3 times x, fine, that's because x can be defined as a constant value. Infinity cannot be defined as a constant value, it is infinate. to multiply the infinate by 3 is stupid because you can get 3 multiplied by everything, it's mathematically impossible, therefore, 3 X infinity is infinity.
infinity cannot be defined because you cannot express infinity in a number. that is why you cannot calculate with infinity. what you can do is examine how a formula "works out" if you let a variable go against infinity, means what happens to the result if you use really large numbers. (or for the "division by zero" matter, use numbers that go really really close towards 0)

a simple equation: y=3*x .. y is three times larger than x..
now if you let x go against infinity, y will always be 3 times larger than x.
and that is true because you never (can?) reach infinity as limit.
at least with math. but you cannot leave math aways since your calculation (division) is completely based on the laws of math.

Quote:
Secondly, there is no how about it, if you try to share something among nothing, you are asking how many nothings are there for me to share into this something ..
sharing nothing among something (infinite or not): you have one (or more? hey why not..? ) table(s) and nothing to put on it.

means: it wont bring you anything except that you have one (or more? hey why not..? ) table(s) ..

is different from

sharing someting (infinite or not) among nothing: there is this chick (or more? .. hey.. .. *cough* ) that wants to be taken on a table but you have no table to do her on it.

means: there is no chance you will do it on a table, no matter how hard you try. and why should you even try? you just cant.

but how about the kitchen sink instead?

Quote:
which is infinate, therefore, if we share something among infinity, we end up with nothing. It's a simple concept.
put in a formula it could be as simple as this: y=3/x (hey.. does that mean you have 3 souls? or a soul for 3? )
as said before, the larger x is, the smaller y will be. thats what "your" theory basically says. but you cant define the "final" reflection of yours (the "final" divisor) because there always will be a "next one". you only can define a reflection you want to set as x to use it in your equation.
so y will never be 0 it will be "damned" to be sooooo close to 0 for ever.

this is where infinity might kick in somehow.

Quote:
If a tree falls in the woods and there's no one around to hear it does it make a sound? Yes, the tree saw it happen and heard it crash. it cannot tell us, but it is a living thing following the basic principles of MRSGREN and therefore the answer must be yes. (here we go)
if a tree falls then snoopy will cry.

also there will be everything that makes us percieve something like the sound of a falling tree.

hmm.. and according to the theory that there is no sound if noone percieves it.. is how can there be a falling tree?

skinkie: for deconfusion read right after reading one of wallys err.. thingies.
things will be much clearer then..

zoom: err.. nope. no clue.



Last edited by RayJones; 05-19-2004 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 05-20-2004, 05:41 AM   #53
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Asymptote! That was the word I was looking for earlier. But never mind that, it's not needed now.

In the laws of math, when something is considered "to be sooooo close to 0 for ever", it is then considered to be 0. But what you're basically saying is that in real life, when one stands between two parallel mirrors, ones sould would be small as heck, but never gone, which i understand. But still, I according to the laws of mathemetics, anything divided by 0 is infinity. I'm staing this as fact, many people believe this and then discard it and go for the "anything divided by 0 can't be done" still having fresh in their mind the fact that it could be infinity, only infinity can't be calculated in math and so they don't.

but saying anything divided by 0 can't be done is just saying, well it can be done, only we can't do anything with the result considering it's infinate.

Therefore, anything diveded by infinity is 0

And you're right, if no one see's the tree falling, are we even sure this so called tree exists?

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Old 05-20-2004, 06:43 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
Asymptote! That was the word I was looking for earlier. But never mind that, it's not needed now.

In the laws of math, when something is considered "to be sooooo close to 0 for ever", it is then considered to be 0.
neeeee.. asymptote is what we need here.

sooo close to 0 is not equal 0. what you mean is that the limit of y is 0 if x goes against infinity. that does not mean y will ever become 0.

Quote:
But what you're basically saying is that in real life, when one stands between two parallel mirrors, ones sould would be small as heck, but never gone, which i understand.
me just got the idea that a mirror is limited to a certain resolution. there is a countable number of atoms/molecules which make up the mirror. so there is definitly a point where no further reflection is possible. bye bye infinity.

Quote:
.. according to the laws of mathemetics, anything divided by 0 is infinity.
yes, it it would only be logical, except for the fact that 0/0= infinity is somewhat unlogic since 0/x with x<>0 is always 0, also, this is clearly non-practicable.

but who knows. math also found a way to squareroot negative numbers..

Quote:
I'm staing this as fact, many people believe this and then discard it and go for the "anything divided by 0 can't be done" still having fresh in their mind the fact that it could be infinity, only infinity can't be calculated in math and so they don't.
i would not say i believe it, but it's a possible solution for a "not solved" issue.


i consider the matter of infinity as somehow complex, and we have already a simple way to deal with it in math, but not the "philosophical" kind of way you want it.

however math does not need to divide by 0 or calculate with infinity itself.

Quote:
but saying anything divided by 0 can't be done is just saying, well it can be done, only we can't do anything with the result considering it's infinate.
ok, it cannot be done the mathematic way. and like i said there is no mathematical need for doing this. there are ways to solve equations concerning this matter.

the rest is only philosophical theory, since you just cant do it with the girl on the table if you got none. no matter if the girl or you or you both or whatever the result is, is turning infinite or not. my analogy stands. dividing by 0 makes no sense in any rational concern.

Quote:
And you're right, if no one see's the tree falling, are we even sure this so called tree exists?
that is what leads this question ad absurdum, although i think zoom would point out that the monkeys saw the tree and made it existing. hey. but they didnt saw the tree's roots, and that's why it finally falls?


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Old 05-20-2004, 06:46 AM   #55
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somebody pull my finger
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Old 05-20-2004, 06:48 AM   #56
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*pulls*


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Old 05-20-2004, 07:03 AM   #57
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oh crap

...

*runs to the toilet*




this thread was getting too intellectual, lucky I was on hand to lower the tone
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Old 05-20-2004, 07:14 AM   #58
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because of people like you mankind will be doomed.



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Old 05-20-2004, 03:25 PM   #59
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I'm just gonna do this whatever way.
Basically, yes, mirrors can only see so far until you see no more, but technically, it should go into infinity, it just doesnt because it's a cheap crappy mirror, as are all mirrors which is why I don't buy one unless I can see infinity in it (guess how many mirrors are in my house, go on, guess!)

Basically, this is just the idea that if a purely reflective surface faced another purely reflective surface in parallel, it should stare into infinity.

Also, any number divided by 0 is impossible to calculate.l

Also, any number divided by 0 is infinity.

There are always two trains of thought to something, mathematical theory says both are true, we just disregard one because it doesn't help us in any way in actual math. Much like we disregard asymptotes equalling 0 when we do stuff like small angle approximations, it's just little cheats we do.

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Old 05-20-2004, 05:55 PM   #60
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Okay, never mind the whole mirrors thing. It's confusing, depends too greatly upon factors like point of view, photon--particle or wave?, atomic resolution...and besides, it's all done with mirrors anyway.



Let us instead visit the concept of infinity by hacking on a yardstick...or a meterstick, if you prefer. *(Produces a cheap wooden yardstick and places it on top of Joshi's nice mahogany desk. Draws his samurai sword and cuts the stick precisely in half.)*

I reduced the length of the stick by half. Now, I can do that again *(Does so.)* and have a fourth of a stick left. I do it again, and again, and again...and I will always have some portion of stick left.

Here's the tricky part. At some point, the piece of stick will be too small for me to cut, even with precise sword control such as mine. Fortunately, I can magically shrink myself down to size for the sake of argument, even past the subatomic level. I'd be carving up the last quark, and still have some left.

My point? There are an infinite number of sword cuts in a finite space. Or on Joshi's desk.
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Old 05-21-2004, 04:16 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
Basically, this is just the idea that if a purely reflective surface faced another purely reflective surface in parallel, it should stare into infinity.
theory mostly works, i had the same idea years ago and assuming the right circumstances it would "stare" into infinity.

Quote:
Also, any number divided by 0 is infinity.
why is 0 divided by 0 infinity if 0 divided by any other number gives 0?


zoom.. theoretically .. yes. and are you trying to say there is no smallest "bit" existing?


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Old 05-21-2004, 04:54 PM   #62
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My...my desk!

You twit! I'll have you know that cost me twelve dinari, three cows and half a goat!

But what you're basically saying is that no matter what you do, you will always have a fraction of that stick left and since you can do this and infinate amount of times without actually losing this fraction of a stick to nothing, you end up with a fraction of 1/infinity equalling a number very extremely close to 0.

However (oh it's no fun not to argue) think about it this way, after how many decimal 0's does another interger apart from zero actually appear?

Or in other words, it would basically be
1 X 10^-Infinity, and so basically, you would get 0.0000000 recurring, meaning you get 0

Oh yeah! One the spot baybe, one the spot!

Now someone prove me wrong (it's not a challenge, it's a prediction)

EDIT
Sorry, didn't see rays post.
okay, so with the exception of 0 divided by 0 (which could either be 0 as it is 0 divided by a number, 1 as it is the same number divided by itself, or infinity for the reasons I've stated above, but we won't go into that) any othe number divided by 0 should be infinate.


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Old 05-21-2004, 05:54 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
Or in other words, it would basically be
1 X 10^-Infinity, and so basically, you would get 0.0000000 recurring, meaning you get 0
wouldnt it be "0." and then and infinite amount of "0" and then a "1"?

and would that mean that the "infinite" amount isnt infinite at all because there is another digit for the "1"?

is there anything proven yet?



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Old 05-21-2004, 06:19 PM   #64
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The word infinate is basically meant to denote anything that's ongoing. Ten divided by 3 is 3.3 recurring. This means that the .3 will go on forever, to infinity.

Therefore, there can never be a 1 as the point 0 would just keep going forever, making it 0.

But yeah, nothing is really proven, the only way to prove something (anything) is by disproving all other alternatives, and we won't do that so nothing can be definate.

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Old 05-21-2004, 07:23 PM   #65
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Cool Guy You want fries with that?

Quote:
Originally posted by RayJones
zoom.. theoretically .. yes. and are you trying to say there is no smallest "bit" existing?
Ah, yes...that is confusing. What I was really looking at with the yardstick model was space, not matter. The stick was just something to cut up on top of Joshi's nice mahogany desk; what I was really doing was taking a given length and dividing it in half. You can divide the remaining space in half an infinite number of times.

I'll leave the math to you guys. Dammit, Jim--I'm a line cook, not a mathematician! (I study the use of numbers in numerology and kabbalah, but they usually deal with integers of ten or below.) You want a perfect cheeseburger, talk to me...you want the equation behind the cooking time of the cheeseburger versus ambient kitchen temperatures and gas-flow variance to the cooking surface...talk to Ray or Joshi.

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Old 05-22-2004, 04:37 AM   #66
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Re: You want fries with that?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit
What I was really looking at with the yardstick model was space, not matter. The stick was just something to cut up on top of Joshi's nice mahogany desk; what I was really doing was taking a given length and dividing it in half. You can divide the remaining space in half an infinite number of times.
that is correct.. (you and your stories!! )


Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
The word infinate is basically meant to denote anything that's ongoing. Ten divided by 3 is 3.3 recurring. This means that the .3 will go on forever, to infinity.
yes, but still there is the one number "directly" before 10/3.
yes, it is there.

Quote:
Therefore, there can never be a 1 as the point 0 would just keep going forever, making it 0.
err.. 1x10^-1= 0.1 means a "0" followed by 1 "1".

1x10^-10 =0.0000000001 means 10 "0"s followed by 1 "1"

according to this principle 1x10^-(infinity) would be an infinite number of "0"s followed by 1 "1" (err, and not "0." and infinite "0"s and a 1, like i said before.. that would be 1 "0" too much.. )


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Old 05-22-2004, 12:24 PM   #67
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But where would the 1 go? You can't calculate infinity and so the 0's would go on for infinity. Theoretically, yes, a 1 should appear at the end, but what I'm satying is, there is no end, the 0's just go on forever, they have to, leaving no -place for the 1. the one has to have a place for it to be for the number not to be just 0, but it doesn't have a place because it's place is beyond infinity and I'M NOT BUZZ LIGHTYEAR!

I think I've made my point

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Old 05-22-2004, 03:49 PM   #68
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Oh, stoppit Joshi...you are too Buzz Lightyear. You aren't fooling anyone.



I thought infinity was represented mathematically by a number 8 lying on its side, which handily avoids mentioning zeroes altogether...
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Old 05-23-2004, 11:27 AM   #69
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So it's not an actualy number then (actual numbers being anything constructed by the characters 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 0)

the 8 on it's side is just used to represent something, like pi or alpha and omega.

It's all greek to me.

And I would like to point out to everyone that I am not Buzz Lightyear! I would like to make it absolutely clear that I am nothing like my father!


Oh crap.

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Old 05-25-2004, 04:42 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
But where would the 1 go? You can't calculate infinity and so the 0's would go on for infinity. Theoretically, yes, a 1 should appear at the end, but what I'm satying is, there is no end, the 0's just go on forever, they have to, leaving no -place for the 1. the one has to have a place for it to be for the number not to be just 0, but it doesn't have a place because it's place is beyond infinity and I'M NOT BUZZ LIGHTYEAR!

I think I've made my point
yes you did. denial of the infinity of infinity. ignorance of the infinite small, quasi nothing yet something .. thingy. the digital nature of analogy. the beginning of existence. the birth of chaos. ..

TO TEH HOUSE OF PAIN WITH YOU!!!

muhahahahar.

*gets hit by running wall*


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Old 05-25-2004, 07:08 AM   #71
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Dr. Edison: Ah, oui? J'espere que vous soyez femme...
You speak French too, how romantic Zoom.


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Old 05-25-2004, 07:41 AM   #72
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Re: You want fries with that?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit
Dammit, Jim--I'm a line cook, not a mathematician!
that's (kind of) my line...
although i'm no line cook but a doctor (dammit zoom/jim/sith_master2000/whoever!)

hmm, but i'm a mathematician (well, sort of... i like math and i got back a math test today... 13 points... (which would be an A- in american grades (iirc)) (it will change into 14 points (an A) hopefully, because one assignment was formulated really strange and the teacher took the test with him again to check that...)) (and although i hate LISP, i like brackets ( ))...




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Old 05-25-2004, 07:53 AM   #73
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"mathe/physik leistungkurs" huh? huh?


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Old 05-25-2004, 03:43 PM   #74
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Re: Re: You want fries with that?

Quote:
Originally posted by DrMcCoy
hmm, but i'm a mathematician (well, sort of... i like math and i got back a math test today... 13 points... (which would be an A- in american grades (iirc)) (it will change into 14 points (an A) hopefully, because one assignment was formulated really strange and the teacher took the test with him again to check that...)) (and although i hate LISP, i like brackets ( ))...
Funny, I thought you were going to make a point there.

Oh and Ray, I know of and believe in the infinity, of infinity. I have no ignorance of the infinite small, quasi nothing yet something .. thingy, but I do believe that there may be something else. And the digital nature of analogy can kiss my arse. The beginning of existence started with a bang, followed by the dropping of an egg and cress sandwich.

I have stared into the infinite

And it is nothing.
It is also blue (not black, common misconseption)

And Chaos was never born, he was around before the birth of time, he was around before pestilence, famine, war and death. He was the beginning.

And now he's a milkman going by the name of Ronnie Soak. (Soak spelled backwards, gettit?)

Which just goes to show what putting your faith in chaos will bring you (unbelievably punctual milk)

And the house of pain is nothing compared to Hagars House of Ribs.

And was the wall running, or was the world just moving around it?

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Old 05-26-2004, 04:44 AM   #75
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ray: exactly... mathe+physik lks!

and if you like messing with infinities, you should consider reading this book:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846
it's completely insane, but funny though...




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Old 05-26-2004, 04:52 AM   #76
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(Oh, I just knew the bloody wall was going to come into this somehow...)

Sorry, but infinity cannot be blue. The detection of any color by a perceiving mind indicates the reflection of a particular wavelength by that which is thought to be infinite. Mice wear hats in Spain. Since anything infinite cannot by its particular nature be just a thing, the reflection of any photons in a certain wavelength would be highly unlikely.

Therein lies the great fundamental flaw with infinity. Anything infinite would be a totality, extending to every point in the universe; logically, you could not yourself exist in the same universe with it, because it would occupy the same space as you! Therefore, if it's infinite...it can't be a thing; it can only be the potential for the existance of a thing (expressed mathematically as: 0).

There's your wall. Call it infinite, and logic allows you to walk right through it. Watch your head.
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:50 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
..
but I do believe that there may be something else. And the digital nature of analogy can kiss my arse. The beginning of existence started with a bang, followed by the dropping of an egg and cress sandwich.
a) of course there will be something else. human language isnt powerful enough yet to express what it is. until then we have to use what we have. yet we have (several) concepts of infinity for instance.
and who am i to claim i am right, anyways?

b) the bang is not excluded by "digital analogy". also i listed both seperate. digital analogy and beginning of existence.

Quote:
I have stared into the infinite



And it is nothing.
It is also blue (not black, common misconseption)
from my point of view it cannot be nothing and blue at the same time. maybe it can be percieved as such, but rather not.

Quote:
And Chaos was never born, he was around before the birth of time, he was around before pestilence, famine, war and death. He was the beginning.
he? .. ...

whatever.

a) i was talking about the principle of chaos.
b) the cannot be a before "birth of time".
c) basicly the principle of chaos needs time, mainly because it's "using" iteration.
d) pestilence, famine, war and death are completely "irrelevant".



Quote:
And was the wall running, or was the world just moving around it?
both, of course.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoom Rabbit
Therefore, if it's infinite...it can't be a thing; it can only be the potential for the existance of a thing (expressed mathematically as: 0).
exactly. infinity is not a (common) thing. infinity is more about a concept to "describe" the undefinable, or not clearly definable definable if you want. (sounds weird, is weird .. *shrugs* get over it, mkay? .. )
infinity is neither small, large, loud, silent or whatever. after all it is not even "existing".


mccoy: teh coolness .. who chooses something like de/bio anyways?

unluckily the nice girls (at my time) ..



Last edited by RayJones; 05-26-2004 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:44 AM   #78
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Re: Re: Re: You want fries with that?

Quote:
Originally posted by Joshi
And Chaos was never born, he was around before the birth of time, he was around before pestilence, famine, war and death. He was the beginning.
Something about that reminds me of Michael Moorcock's writing... hmmmm...


Native XWA.Netter (Nutter?)
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Old 05-27-2004, 04:38 AM   #79
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Re: Re: Re: Re: You want fries with that?

Quote:
Originally posted by edlib
Something about that reminds me of Michael Moorcock's writing... hmmmm...
me too...
maybe i should ask arioch about that...




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Old 05-27-2004, 04:22 PM   #80
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Okay, so most of my last post was a joke. Chaos was meant to be the fifth horseman of the apocalypse (which is why I mentioned death, pestilance, war and famine)

The whole blue thing was a joke as well, I was just messing with your heads and amazingly, you fell for it. Not expected.

as a matter of fact, the infinate cannot be black, nor blue nor white. White is a colour as is black, they are not simply the absence of colour, and therefore, if the infinate was to be a colour would be to have it contradict everythuing zoom said and therefore it must be nothing as nothing has no colour.

And for us to exist within the same universe as the infinate, it must be something, but then that something would have to occupy the same space as us and since we live in a universe with everything, the infinate must be held within a parallel universe of nothing.

Of course if you believe in parallel universes, you must believe in heaven and hell as well. Stands to reason.

And ray, you say our language isn't developed enough to explain all this? Fine. The Meaning of life is mkonf. It's a word I just made up, but that's what it is. End of story.

Edlib and DrMcCoy, I have never read Michael Moorcock's writings, this is simply a statement I have devised myself from other writings. But of course, before order, there must have been chaos and with order comes the lines of famine, pestilence, war and then death. therefore chaos came before that. and we can never be sure as to what it was that caused the universe to come into being if indeed it started somewhere (or maybe if just lies on the infinate of time) and so because we don't know and a lot of varying theoruies have come about, it must be put down to chaos, at least until we know for sure. therefore chaos was around at the birth of time.

These are all my own thoughts (mostly made up on the spur of the mo) but of course they are all effected by outside sources, everything is, but I'm sure as hell not quoting anybody. I'm also not claiming to be right, there is a very high possibility that I'm wrong, but frankly, that's just the learning curve of life.

*EDIT*
I find it quite ironic that this just so happened to come into my email box today.



You can't really argue with Scott Adams.

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