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Old 05-16-2004, 06:18 PM   #1
moort
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Question anything regarding the AI?

any words on friendly side of the AI? r there anybody who've been to e3 and seen the game live in action? trailers don't tell that much...
it's pretty important imho,, way important then the gfx eh?
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:23 AM   #2
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I have heard that your companions cannot die. It was on IGN I think. If so that would not make it a very gritty game. Anyone know if it is true?


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Old 05-17-2004, 02:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by verybigboy18
I have heard that your companions cannot die. It was on IGN I think. If so that would not make it a very gritty game. Anyone know if it is true?
That was during a developer interview. The dev was a bit evasive, but did say that they were looking into a 'healing system' so that if your squad-mates went down, they weren't necessarily dead, and there could be an opportunity to revive them.

IN a way, that would make sense, especially if you were facing a few really tough opponents in a row. I guess they don't want you to be left in a situation where it's just you facing down the bad guys alone because your squad mates are all dead. It is supposed to be squad-based combat after all.

How it will work in practice is anyone's guess.

As for the rest of the AI issue, your squad-mates are supposed to be quite smart. They will use cover if it's available, and in the gameplay footage we saw commandos side-stepping to avoid rockets. One lobbed a grenade through a door as soon as it opened. Of course, that may just be scripted to happen each time, but it was a nice touch. Here's a rip from the IGN article about the game...

Quote:
The AI is looking pretty smart at this point, and we never saw our teammates just standing around while getting shot at or loitering on the job (unless we told them to loiter, that is...you are the commander, after all).
And of course you will be able to direct them to take control of turrets, take up sniper positions, blast open doors, etc., as indicated in this rip from the GameSpot article...

Quote:
The members of your squad will tag along behind you and offer cover as needed when left to their own devices. However, you can issue several different commands, such as search and destroy, form up, secure position, recall, and other situational orders, like disarm a mine.
What I've seen and read seems quite encouraging.
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Old 05-17-2004, 09:04 AM   #4
moort
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thanks stormhammer.
yea i too have noticed em throwing granades while that door breach scene and it's quite interesting eventho it might be scripted,, as long as there are no open space firefights these kinda things are welcome imho..
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Old 05-17-2004, 06:30 PM   #5
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Being able to heal fallen squad members would be a nice feature. I think there should be a limit of time before they die though.... more of a challenge.


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Old 05-17-2004, 08:06 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZBomber
Being able to heal fallen squad members would be a nice feature. I think there should be a limit of time before they die though.... more of a challenge.
There is something like that on the game Conflict:desert storm.

That would be cool. I read somewhere that when you like kill a geonosian in close range their guts might fly on your helmet.
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Old 05-17-2004, 11:36 PM   #7
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Angry One thing though...

One thing that seemed somewhat "weird" in the videos (at least which struck me as such), is the overall combat behavior.


Typical scene in video:

Troopers standing around aiming and firing continously (rather like the AI Stormtroopers in JA/JK2, that is, when they aren't ducking behind crates or running away from you with their back turned).

Aren't these guys afraid of getting hit? Ever hear of cover? Maybe they have uber armor or something...


Then the enemies, the enemies!

Several scenes show enemies basically walking (not running, walking) right up to the troopers, and then getting offed point blank.

What kind of strategy did these bad guys have in mind? I'll show how brave I am by walking right up to him and growling in his face so my funky breath will knock him down for sure! *bang*

The majority of enemies not killed by grenades (that silly monster who growls instead of attacking/running when a grenade explodes at his feet 2 seconds later) are shot at seemingly point blank range.

I hope that the AI for both the squad and the enemies improves or these are not typical of the gameplay.

I suppose maybe they were shooting for the "scary factor" by having the helmet view with the heavy breathing and a monster just getting closer and closer and closer... right in your face growling and snarling.


That's cool from a horror movie standpoint, but from a tactical FPS standpoint? Odd and pathetic from a strategic point of view.

I mean in RC you're supposed to be THE ELITE right? They sent THE BEST, because no one else could do the job (not enough Jedi to go around, right?).

But why do they need the best if the bad guys are this pathetic? They act more like Klingons, charging the enemy with melee weapons or forgetting to actually attack their enemies with all their shows of bravado.

And are the Troopers showing their superior skills and tactics but just virtually standing still in the face of heavy fire from all directions? Seems like an easy way to get killed...

I mean I was sort of assuming that this game isn't the "Rambo" type of FPS we're all used to where you just rush in guns blazing and beat all odds.

Anybody else see this, or am I just crazy and overreacting? The game isn't that far from release, that's why I'm just a little bit worried...


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Old 05-18-2004, 08:04 PM   #8
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I see your point, Kurgan, because I too have had a few reservations based on the trailers. As you say, the commandos seemed to simply stand and dodge fire when tackling that large droid. That might possibly be due to there being no cover in the vicinity - other than either side of the door. Also, we know from other articles that the Commandos will have 'shields' that power up in a similar way to Master Chief's in Halo - so they can take quite a few hits before they start to sustain physical damage.

The roaring aliens were, I admit, a bit overdone. It doesn't make much sense for them to simply roar at you, when they should be opening fire on you. Hopefully this will be tweaked, and is not a standard behaviour pattern for all your enemies.

The game's got about another 5-6 months of development, though, so there's probably quite a bit of time for tweaking the AI to ensure the enemies aren't simply dumb canon fodder.

I'm encouraged a little more by an article at CVG, where they discuss the squad tactics a little more...

Quote:
Defensive and aggressive stances will affect the speed of movement, with soldiers able to stand, crawl and even inch along the ground, covering the backs of their comrades and securing tactical hotspots in readiness for any counter-offensive. Also, instead of a tactical overview present in games such as Hidden & Dangerous, we're promised a simple dynamic interface that sees you responding to threats quickly and easily.

"It's challenging to strike a balance between action and hardcore tactics," admits Matulac. "However, we definitely don't want you to have to micro-manage your squad. We've yet to nail down the full range of tactical commands and options, but you'll be able to order your troops to 'leapfrog' through the world, where one guy moves up while another covers. You'll also be able to order 'stacking', where two guys can share a cover point, with one taking a high shot and the other guy the low shot."

Of course, the game's success will depend squarely on the strength of the AI. It's too early to cast judgement on that right now, but from what we've seen, your comrades will certainly be able to think for themselves (Unreal AI being about the best in the business).

"The AI will be intelligent, but the characters will also look intelligent while they're carrying out orders to help reinforce the military aspect of the game," adds Matulac. There wasn't much to see of the enemy's intelligence, but then the game's über-badasses - Grievous's retinue of men - are yet to be unveiled for obvious reasons.
That gives me the sense that the AI hasn't been properly coded yet. Having said that, I really don't expect the game's enemy AI to be in the same league as Far Cry, where they run for help, hop into a vehicle, wait in ambush after the firing stops, etc. I think the emphasis here is on action, so I expect it to be more like Jedi Academy in terms of AI. It would be good to see enemies use appropriate cover, dodge attacks and try to outflank you, though.

Nevertheless, even with it's squad-based combat, I view Republic Commando as more of a spiritual successor to Dark Forces.
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Old 05-19-2004, 11:36 AM   #9
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Well, I agree with that last part, but only in the sense that it's a Star Wars FPS with no force or lightsabers to use.

I mean, Dark Forces was still the "lone wolf Rambo" variety of game. ; )

But, that said, nobody expected the radical shift in gameplay from DF1 to JK1. So here's hoping it lives up to the hype!



The AI issue will make or break this game I think, for not only the reason that as a SP game first and foremost, but also because of Multiplayer.

Now I know they have said that Coop will NOT be a feature, but bots almost surely will. So they have the potential to finally give us an MP Star Wars shooter with decent bots we can give orders to, etc.

If these are just run of the mill bots like we got in Jedi Academy I'll be very disappointed. Sure, modders are working on improving those all the time, but the core bots were very haphazard and even worse in some ways than JK2 (speculation about auto routing and other things).

In RC I hope we can issue orders and they respond in a competent manner in both SP & MP.

Now if the SP enemies are chumps who employ Klingon battle tactics, we're in big trouble, because MP opponents DO NOT fight like that! (at least the smart ones don't). ; )

War cries, charging with (non lightsaber) melee weapons, walking slowly and taunting without seeking cover are suicidal and only good for showing off "Doom style" enemies.

Let's hope you're right, let's hope they are working feverishly to make the AI the best it can be in this game, because it really will be the make or break feature.

After all "THE SQUAD IS THE WEAPON." Right?


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Old 06-16-2004, 09:32 AM   #10
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And of course you will be able to direct them to take control of turrets, take up sniper positions, blast open doors, etc., as indicated in this rip from the GameSpot article...
Sounds like Hidden & Dangerous. I bought that game, but I didn't spend more than 15 minutes on it. It seemed too much demanding to do little things as just move.
I didn't give the game a full chance but, I'd hope RC is better than Hidden & Dangerous interface and moving-abilities to your self and your team.

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