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Old 06-26-2004, 06:30 PM   #1
HiveRougie
 
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1.02 & Duels

Ok, just to say: I play version 1.02, have done for years, will continue to do so for years. Although, I am starting to get annoyed at how 99% of players are either in 'pp' (push/pull) mode, or 'ffa' mode and nobody in duel or waiting to.

To me; FFA = One big DFA/Drain/Dark-Rage fest, and PP = A buggy backslash-orientated alternative.

Agreed, there is 'some' skill to PP, and it does take time to learn how to time your pull or push properly and also how to kick, but it's basically saying "OK take 90% of the stuff you can do in JK2 and don't do it"...

Also, the sheer mentality of alot of players has degraded beyond recognition.
I can't even go onto a server without someone calling me a n00b (For ANY reason & even though I'm not a n00b), swearing, saying racist and sexist things and generally being totally anti-social to eachother.
I remember a time when players used to say "saber down = no attack" or simply apologise to eachother for things, there used to be god damn honour in jk2! ://

At least in some form..

Although now I go onto any serv and people who actually duel me (omg it's a miracle), don't bother bowing at the opposite end of the pad and doing formal greetings. No. They just slam straight at you from the beginning.

No respect...:/

I don't know whether anyone agrees with me on this - But I find dueling to be the most fun aspect of jk2, and my reason is that I feel as though there is actual 'skill' there. It's not just "put on yawspeed to 6000, dfa into a massive rabble of enemies and get lucky".

No, dueling requires patience, timing and tactics.

As for my concern though: I am increasingly finding that FFA & PP is 'destroying' saber skill because all you ever see people do, is either DFA or backslash, and that just REALLY doesn't take much skill....it really doesn't.

Some people just don't want to go online, jump into the bespin courtyard and multi-dfa 3 or 4 players at once and probably get dfa'd in the process.
Some people want to actually fight with a sense of honour and decency and skillfully use of their saber to strike down the enemy.

From my own experiences, a GOOD 5 minute intense duel, is worth 1000 dfa kills in FFA.

It's just a pity nobody sees it this way anymore.

I say, if you want fast paced action, go play quake3 or something. The sword (Even though it's made of light), is a thing of beauty that is seriously getting neglected.

But then, maybe I'm speaking to the wrong people since most here will be 1.04 players.

I'm just looking for people who agree with me
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Old 06-26-2004, 08:45 PM   #2
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Re: 1.02 & Duels

Quote:
Originally posted by HiveRougie
Although, I am starting to get annoyed at how 99% of players are either in 'pp' (push/pull) mode, or 'ffa' mode and nobody in duel or waiting to.

1.02 hasn't been affected by honor?! I'm happy!

Quote:
To me; FFA = One big DFA/Drain/Dark-Rage fest, and PP = A buggy backslash-orientated alternative.

I wub my guns.

Quote:
I remember a time when players used to say "saber down = no attack" or simply apologise to eachother for things, there used to be god damn honour in jk2! :/

That was the worst part of the community.

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Although now I go onto any serv and people who actually duel me (omg it's a miracle),

Try a duel server.

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I don't know whether anyone agrees with me on this - But I find dueling to be the most fun aspect of jk2,

Go to a duel server....

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No, dueling requires patience, timing and tactics.

As does FFA.

Quote:
I say, if you want fast paced action, go play quake3 or something.

This is a fast paced game. Jedi Knight even moreso.
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Old 06-26-2004, 09:42 PM   #3
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You obviously don't understand.
I would also even go so far as to guage from your reply that you haven't actually experienced proper jk2 saber combat if you are still attracted to 'guns' ("ughh")

I also assume that you are not a 1.02 player, as you would know that there are NO duel servers on there. You might get the odd CTF one, but ya...all FFA.

As for 'saber down = no attack' being..

I quote: "The worst part of the community"

I seriously don't think you also understand anything to do with such a word as 'etiquette'. If you did, then 'gank tactics' like coming upto someone with their 1) back turned to you, or 2) saber down, and you attacking them unhonorably when they're this way, just shows an utter lack of understanding and proves that you have basic 'padawan mentality' (i.e. the way how n00b players love to come upto you and slash at you because they know no better).

The days when people used to have the rules of saber down = no attack, were the best imo because it meant that players who didn't want to be ganked every time they turned their back, could stay so. Worst part of the community?!! wtf? - The worst part of the god damn community is 1) retards who swear at you profusely, use racist remarks and act like little children with no regard for the fact that there are decent people who play this game and don't want to have to put up with that kind of crap. and 2) People who just go on servers to ANNOY people by just coming upto them and backslashing or dfa'ing them.

quote: "No, dueling requires patience, timing and tactics."

"As does FFA."

- Err...no. FFA just requires you to dfa continuously and ONLY do that move to ensure that you get kills. Either that or just use widespread lightning and gank anyone who was low on health.

Lame tactics imo.

No skill AT ALL.

Quote: "This is a fast paced game. Jedi Knight even moreso."

- ya...when you see 20 people dfa'ing profusely it is.

I pity you for never having experienced the quality of gaming in jk2 that I have, and miss.
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Old 06-26-2004, 10:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by HiveRougie
You obviously don't understand.
I would also even go so far as to guage from your reply that you haven't actually experienced proper jk2 saber combat if you are still attracted to 'guns' ("ughh")

I've played every single game mode from FFA to Duel to Jedi Master/Holocron (Fun!) and the rest. I played saber only and all guns. Don't forget that the Jedi Knight/Dark Forces series is also about guns.

Quote:
I also assume that you are not a 1.02 player, as you would know that there are NO duel servers on there. You might get the odd CTF one, but ya...all FFA.

I've played 1.02 for quite some time.

Quote:
I seriously don't think you also understand anything to do with such a word as 'etiquette'.

Etiquette in an FPS is not cussing anyone out or being mean to the person. That's all there is to it!

Quote:
If you did, then 'gank tactics' like coming upto someone with their 1) back turned to you, or 2) saber down, and you attacking them unhonorably when they're this way,

Saber off was originally intended for stealth. And going from crouch saber off to a lunge is a great quick attack.

Quote:
have basic 'padawan mentality' (i.e. the way how n00b players love to come upto you and slash at you because they know no better).

You have to come to people to slash them!

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The days when people used to have the rules of saber down = no attack, were the best imo because it meant that players who didn't want to be ganked every time they turned their back, could stay so.

I loved having to watch my back, that is what makes things exciting! The best part trip mining or rocketing a bunch of saberists.

Quote:
Worst part of the community?!! wtf? - The worst part of the god damn community is 1) retards who swear at you profusely, use racist remarks and act like little children with no regard for the fact that there are decent people who play this game and don't want to have to put up with that kind of crap.

I concur.

Quote:
and 2) People who just go on servers to ANNOY people by just coming upto them and backslashing or dfa'ing them.

Just to think that FFA doesn't mean anything. I still wish they called it deathmatch.

Quote:
- Err...no. FFA just requires you to dfa continuously and ONLY do that move to ensure that you get kills. Either that or just use widespread lightning and gank anyone who was low on health.

So Raven implemented lightning because they thought it was fun to work on it, huh?

Quote:
I pity you for never having experienced the quality of gaming in jk2 that I have, and miss.
I pity you for not realizing that this series and Star Wars in general is about sabers and guns and not about standing around chatting.
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Old 06-26-2004, 10:50 PM   #5
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"I've played every single game mode from FFA to Duel to Jedi Master/Holocron (Fun!) and the rest. I played saber only and all guns. Don't forget that the Jedi Knight/Dark Forces series is also about guns."

- Well first, this thread is in relation to version 1.02 of jk2 jedi outcast. Not anything else.
I have also played 'every single game mode' in jk2, but then, I can say I've played then and all I really did was play them 5 minutes and never go back, but that doesn't really mean that I 'played' them. Having guns in the game is just one aspect of what people could do for fun, but as you may have noticed, this thread was on about sabers.

I myself practically always play saber only at jedi master force level. Force regen is mostly stuck to 0 on the 1.02 servers because people get annoyed with the regen time.

So, guns aren't really in this equation.
Especially since we play 'jedis' and the jedi weapon of choice should be a lightsaber, it makes sense for that to be the primary weapon.

"I've played 1.02 for quite some time."

No where near as long as me, of that I am certain. Otherwise you'd have at least 'some' grasp of the concepts I tried to portray with my original post before you changed the topic to 'guns' _

"Etiquette in an FPS is not cussing anyone out or being mean to the person. That's all there is to it!"

No, there is more, although I doubt you'll have followed it much if you were so obsessed with 'guns' and as fast-paced action as you can get. You don't sound like a patient person, and patience is one key element necessary to duel, or even watch it. I myself have stood around the pad on bespin just watching endless duel bouts between players, it was great. In such cases, I don't want some imbecile trying to attack me when I just don't want to.
Go play with the other children in the courtyard, that's a good little boy _
Don't disturb the adults around the pad now. etc.

"Saber off was originally intended for stealth. And going from crouch saber off to a lunge is a great quick attack."

That which you suggested is just yet another gank tactic used to catch other players off-guard rather than fight them fairly and honourably.

To be honest though, most people have to resort to gank tactics and stuff which tricks people out, simply because they're not good enough to fight fairly and on an even playing field.

The element of surprise is fine, yeah, for FFA. Although people who are patiently watching a duel obviously don't want to be disturbed by some idiot who 'just wants the extra point'.
I mean, there are plenty of places out there for them to go. Maybe they should make a zoo on bespin for them? _

"You have to come to people to slash them!"

-True. But 'coming to them' when they don't see you or want to fight with you, means 'sod off and go play somewhere else'.

"I loved having to watch my back, that is what makes things exciting! The best part trip mining or rocketing a bunch of saberists."

- Sounds like a cheap tactic tbh. Probably because you don't have the skills to beat them with a saber.

"Just to think that FFA doesn't mean anything. I still wish they called it deathmatch."

A naming convention is no excuse for ignorance.

"So Raven implemented lightning because they thought it was fun to work on it, huh?"

- No, they implemented it because it's a part of star wars, but they didn't consider that the culture within the game would become so complex as I have 'tried' to get across with my original post. Simple things like that.
Nothing more 'annoying' than a Pada coming up to a bunch of people who are watching a duel, and just firing lightning at them all. I mean, there's absorb, but it's just an annoying FFA feature that's encroaching on people who don't want to fight because they're most likely watching a fight.

"I pity you for not realizing that this series and Star Wars in general is about sabers and guns and not about standing around chatting."

- Jk2 outcast 'is' about guns and sabers, although most servers opt for saber-only.

Guns are a 1.04 thing...for n00bs who can't fight with a lightsaber.

What you don't realise from that comment is that jk2 is also a 'community', meaning people 'talk', and yes, if standing around is a requirement of talking (I believe it is, unless you know any players who can type text and fight at the same time).

Patience is a virtue after all.

And now, I totally don't know where I am with this thread. Guess I'll wait for a 'decent' reply.
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Old 06-26-2004, 11:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by HiveRougie
- Well first, this thread is in relation to version 1.02 of jk2 jedi outcast. Not anything else.

Jedi Master and Holocron are in 1.02.

Quote:
this thread was on about sabers.

Okay, I'll stick to the sabers.

Quote:
I myself practically always play saber only at jedi master force level. Force regen is mostly stuck to 0 on the 1.02 servers because people get annoyed with the regen time.

200 regen time is essential. 200 force regen time is what all the force powers were made in mind with. 0 force regen time = spam.

Quote:
So, guns aren't really in this equation.
Especially since we play 'jedis' and the jedi weapon of choice should be a lightsaber, it makes sense for that to be the primary weapon.

Not always for Kyle Katarn.

Quote:
No, there is more, although I doubt you'll have followed it much if you were so obsessed with 'guns' and as fast-paced action as you can get. You don't sound like a patient person, and patience is one key element necessary to duel, or even watch it.

Patience is in fact the most important part of sniping, my guns specialty. But I'll keep away from guns in this topic, okay?

Quote:
I myself have stood around the pad on bespin just watching endless duel bouts between players, it was great. In such cases, I don't want some imbecile trying to attack me when I just don't want to.
Go play with the other children in the courtyard, that's a good little boy _
Don't disturb the adults around the pad now. etc.

0_0 Er...

Quote:
That which you suggested is just yet another gank tactic used to catch other players off-guard rather than fight them fairly and honourably.

It catches them off guard because they don't pay enough attention.

Quote:
To be honest though, most people have to resort to gank tactics and stuff which tricks people out, simply because they're not good enough to fight fairly and on an even playing field.

Anyone can do that, seems even to me.

Quote:
The element of surprise is fine, yeah, for FFA.

Which is the game type we're talking about.

Quote:
Although people who are patiently watching a duel obviously don't want to be disturbed by some idiot who 'just wants the extra point'.
I mean, there are plenty of places out there for them to go. Maybe they should make a zoo on bespin for them? _

If you want to watch people fight, use spectator mode, you get better angles that way.

Quote:
Sounds like a cheap tactic tbh. Probably because you don't have the skills to beat them with a saber.

I use a style that blends saber and guns, but we'll keep away from guns discussion like you said.

Quote:
No, they implemented it because it's a part of star wars, but they didn't consider that the culture within the game would become so complex as I have 'tried' to get across with my original post. Simple things like that.
Nothing more 'annoying' than a Pada coming up to a bunch of people who are watching a duel, and just firing lightning at them all. I mean, there's absorb, but it's just an annoying FFA feature that's encroaching on people who don't want to fight because they're most likely watching a fight.

The original intention was a no holds barred FFA, hence the effectiveness of lightning. If it wasn't, then people would be invincible when saber off or something.

Quote:
Guns are a 1.04 thing...for n00bs who can't fight with a lightsaber.



Quote:
What you don't realise from that comment is that jk2 is also a 'community', meaning people 'talk', and yes, if standing around is a requirement of talking (I believe it is, unless you know any players who can type text and fight at the same time).

I mean that some people do nothing but stand around and chat.

Quote:
Patience is a virtue after all.

It is.
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Old 06-27-2004, 11:58 AM   #7
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I could quote war with you endlessly, but I can see that you are grabbing straws with your replies.

What I was trying to get across with this thread, was that PP/FFA/Duel are three different game styles. Some have their skills in PP whereas some just like to jump into FFA and dfa-spam all over the place, but I am increasingly finding that alot of the saber skills (That dueling promotes and trains) is being either lost, or simply not gained by the lower-skilled players because they'd simply rather dfa a bunch of ppl as I said, or play some stupid alternative to actually using their saber, which everyone calls PP.
In both instances saber skill is being neglected, and I believe it is being neglected so, simply because ppl don't want to bother learning how to fight with their saber, or they're too impatient to practice, or they simply feel inadequate in saber combat, so they pick the easier 'no-skill' option(s).

I've gone onto servers and literally have to announce "Anyone for duel on pad?", yes I might get some, but those some are 99% of poor quality. I 'rarely' ever come across players who are ever actually skilled in duel. You know when someone is more skilled than you with a saber, because you will just die time and time again in duel. Even though you might be able to beat them time and time again in PP.

And lastly, if someone has their saber down, that means they don't want to fight, and it would be very cheap and unskilled of anyone else, to attack that unarmed person. Granted, they may be just 'sneakily' waiting to attack, but if they do, you generally get an OK to attack them no-matter what the stance.

I miss those old days. It's a pity the game has degenerated so much these days.
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