lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: Your Star Wars DVD Reviews!
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 09-28-2004, 02:52 AM   #41
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Post

Could be... could be.

Or perhaps he hasn't himself decided yet! (hope not)


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-28-2004, 03:02 PM   #42
Codja X
Junior Member
 
Codja X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Wales, UK
Posts: 445
Perhaps the ghosts appear as how they see themselves - Since Anakin wouldn't have seen himself in a mirror for the best part of a couple of decades (or perhaps couldn't bear to look at himself), then the projection would be as a young man.

Obi and Yoda are used to their old appearance, so that's what their ghosts look like. Why don't they appear young? They probably can't remember what they look like young, having no holiday snaps to remind them

But is it that big a deal?

Just my 2 cents
Codja X is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-28-2004, 03:37 PM   #43
Lynk Former
internet hate machine
 
Lynk Former's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,978
10 year veteran! The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer LF Jester 
Anakin was the only one of the three to have such a wierd situation. Obi and Yoda died when they died and they accepted who they were when they died.

Lynk Former is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-28-2004, 04:12 PM   #44
coupes.
★★★★★
 
coupes.'s Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Québec
Posts: 2,437
10 year veteran! LFN Staff Member 
Ghosts obviously don't have a physical body, I guess they simply chose how they want to appear to someone. Obi-Wan Wouldn't want to appear as his young self as Luke wouldn't recognize him. On the other hand, Anakin wouldn't want to apear as he looked like when he was a sith, so he probably chose to look like he did before he went to the dark side.
coupes. is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 03:43 AM   #45
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Quote:
Originally posted by Lynk Former
Anakin was the only one of the three to have such a wierd situation. Obi and Yoda died when they died and they accepted who they were when they died.
IIRC, so did Vader/Anakin.

He asks Luke to "help me take this mask off", so that he may "look on you with my own eyes."

When Luke says "I've got to save you." he says "You already have, Luke."

"Tell your sister, you were right about me... you were right."

"Now go, my son, leave me."

He even smiles! I'd say that's pretty telling that Anakin accepted who he was, and his fate, and died in peace.


As far as appeance is concerned, Luke wouldn't recognize him as he appeared (in the new version), that's another reason it seems odd. I suppose if a ghost can choose his appearance he could have made himself look like his friend Jar Jar Binks if he wanted (George, please, that was a joke! Noooooo!!!!)

If it was something to do with when he "went over to the Dark Side" that begs the question of when that took place. Was it when he slaughtered the Tusken Raiders? Was it during the events of the second season of the "Clone Wars" animated series? Or was it when he first donned the Vader mask (as we presume is going to happen in Episode III)? To me his slip into the Dark Side is more a progression or a path than he suddenly wakees up one morning and says "EVIL!!!!!" : )


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn

Last edited by Kurgan; 10-13-2004 at 03:46 PM.
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 05:54 AM   #46
Lynk Former
internet hate machine
 
Lynk Former's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,978
10 year veteran! The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer LF Jester 
Well it's really a point of view thing.

When Vader/Anakin said his last words the meaning is different for me. ("the truths we cling to rely greatly on our own point of view").


Really it all boils down to how each individual takes this information and molds it in their mind. There's no right or wrong answer unless Lucas finally tells us for sure his reason... so like I said before, maybe Lucas wants us to figure it out rather than him telling us.

Lynk Former is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 06:07 AM   #47
Sivy
coming soon
 
Sivy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,314
Forum Veteran 
yeah, but that never works... look at matrix 2 & 3. people don't like having to work stuff out for themselves. we're the action film generation. kiss kiss! bang bang!... not "so this is a metaphor laden with eastern philosophy blah blah blah" less thinking! more explosions!

Sivy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 09:42 AM   #48
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Quote:
Originally posted by Lynk Former
Well it's really a point of view thing.

When Vader/Anakin said his last words the meaning is different for me. ("the truths we cling to rely greatly on our own point of view").


Really it all boils down to how each individual takes this information and molds it in their mind. There's no right or wrong answer unless Lucas finally tells us for sure his reason... so like I said before, maybe Lucas wants us to figure it out rather than him telling us.
Sure, sure, I agree with that. And Lucas may give us an answer that we don't buy, and so we just make up our own thing. That's subjectivity for you. Good art & myth is multivalent anyway.

As for me, Anakin is back the moment he goes for Palpatine. He dies on the "Good Side." That instead chooses to be the unstable bratty 20 something from 24 years ago just ruins it.

Then again, I haven't seen Episode III, so perhaps it will be done in a convincing way and I'll drop my objection. But for now it just looks odd and the explanations weak.

I mean Anakin could have chosen to look like himself as a little child right? Back when he was NOT on the Dark path, he hadn't killed anyone, was full of hope, etc.

But there is also the issue of maturity. A mature person accepts their faults and looks past their painful experiences to the knowledge they have gained and moves on. They don't run away from their problems by pretending they're a kid again and nothing bad or complicated ever happend to them. In other words: they take responsibility.

Sure, maybe Vader's past is just too painful for him to contemplate throughout the eternity of the afterlife and he had to "let go" of that pain in order to achieve peace (something not possible in his lifetime), but by the time he reaches that state as a 21 year old he's already built up quite a record of painful experiences and mistakes (uncontrolled rage, his acts of mass murder, his marriage to Padme, attacking his master, etc). And again if he's reaching out to and bonding with Luke, why not choose a form that he will recognize?

As to "well we're spoiled and we want explanations" I disagree. Lucas felt so strongly about the story that he decided to make a major change like this and didn't really go into the "why." And since he's going out of his way to explain all the backstory with the prequels, we EXPECT him to explain it. So it's not our fault, rather the blame can be cast on Lucas. Had he not made the prequels we'd still be watching Sebastian Shaw at the end of ROTJ. If he then turned around and change him into a 21 year old we'd all be like "huh???" (even more so than now).

Okay, I'm just rambling now, without Lucas to explain it, it's up in the air. See you again in about 7 months. ; )


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 11:48 AM   #49
Vagabond
LFN Staff Emeritus
 
Vagabond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The Galactic Plumberman Alliance
Posts: 796
Cool Guy

You know, Kurgan, I think back when all of us were so excited about Lucas making the prequel trilogy, and there was much rejoicing. Had I known then what I know now, I'd have been much more careful about what I'd been wishing for. With the prequels unmade, I was left to imagine the wondrous place and events that lead to my favorite movies of all time.

But then all the flirting about what the genesis of Star Wars might have been was replaced with the tangible - a product of modern-day Lucas's often bewildering sensibility.

I often find myself wishing back for the day when the prequels were unmade, before the days of Gungans, midichlorians, Naboo, changing lightsaber colors, changing Anakin ghosts, altered blaster-shot timelines, and obscenely overused CGI. I often pine for the days when starships were made of models, when the looked like actual objects you could touch, rather than video game cutscenes.

But I should have known - the signals were all there. Although the space battle from Return of the Jedi was the best I've ever seen, the battle of the Ewoks was an omen of any prequels to come. I should have known - we should have all known. While the Emperor's overconfidence was his weakness, perhaps our faith in Lucas was ours.

Had the prequels not been made, then we would not be discussing the rationale for Anakin's ghost, the unmystical and troubling midichlorians; the DVD's would not have been rushed out the door to precede Revenge of the Sith, and thus might not have had some of the strange issues that exists today, such as the inconsistency of Luke's lightsaber color in A New Hope.

Or not - like we were discussing earlier today, George Lucas is to Star Wars, as Michael Jackson is to his own face - he just has to keep tweaking it, until finally all he's going to be left with is a mess.


All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...

Last edited by Vagabond; 09-30-2004 at 04:57 AM.
Vagabond is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 04:45 PM   #50
Lynk Former
internet hate machine
 
Lynk Former's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,978
10 year veteran! The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer LF Jester 
Well none of this would be an issue if Lucas just got his brain working and figure out the fans want the original original trilogy x.x

*pokes GL in the eye*

Lynk Former is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 06:44 PM   #51
Codja X
Junior Member
 
Codja X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Wales, UK
Posts: 445
I think we're all bitchin about the wrong things - the question we should ask is: Why weren't the Ewoks removed from the Special Edition of Return of the Jedi?

It's interesting that Steven Speilberg was orignally meant to direct that (something new I learnt from the Dreams Doc) - I wonder what that would have been like?
Codja X is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-29-2004, 09:39 PM   #52
Lynk Former
internet hate machine
 
Lynk Former's Avatar
 
Status: Administrator
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,978
10 year veteran! The Walking Carpets Guild Officer Imperialist Meatbags Guild Officer LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally posted by Codja X
I think we're all bitchin about the wrong things - the question we should ask is: Why weren't the Ewoks removed from the Special Edition of Return of the Jedi?
To avoid a huge plot hole? XD

Lynk Former is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 03:25 AM   #53
Autobot Traitor
Junior Member
 
Autobot Traitor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tatooine, Canada
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally posted by Codja X
I I wonder what that would have been like?
Picture a bunch of Ewoks running up a beach while being blown appart by Stormtroopers. Wicket the Ewok and his platoon are later sent off to find Whinney the Poo after his 3 other brothers were killed in action on one of Endor's other moons.

I smell an Academy Award!
Autobot Traitor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 06:05 AM   #54
Codja X
Junior Member
 
Codja X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South Wales, UK
Posts: 445
Quote:
Originally posted by Autobot Traitor
Picture a bunch of Ewoks running up a beach while being blown appart by Stormtroopers. Wicket the Ewok and his platoon are later sent off to find Whinney the Poo after his 3 other brothers were killed in action on one of Endor's other moons.

I smell an Academy Award!
LOL I was wondering how to work Private Ryan into it
Codja X is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 07:57 AM   #55
Prime
Am I a truck or robot?
 
Prime's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cybertron
Posts: 12,349
Current Game: Skyrim, Macross PS2
10 year veteran! LF Jester Veteran Modder Helpful! 
Quote:
Originally posted by Lynk Former
Well none of this would be an issue if Lucas just got his brain working and figure out the fans want the original original trilogy x.x

*pokes GL in the eye*
Is that really true though? Yes, there are many fanatics who want the original version, but I wonder how much of the total customer base really cares? I mean, there are a lot of the younger generation that have more or less "grown up" with the SEs and Prequels. There are many fans who think the SEs are an improvement, and the majority probably don't care one way or the other. I know lots of non-fanatics who perfer the updated effects, and don't remember who shot first.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying not everyone is demanding the original version.

Prime is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 08:21 AM   #56
Jan Gaarni
Grand Moff
 
Jan Gaarni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,806
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
I want the original version, where Han shoots only, where Sebastian Shaw is portraying as a ghost, where the Emperor says exactly the same thing in ESB, etc....
As for the enhancements however, I don't see a too big problem. I like how they back in 97 opened up alot of the corridors on Cloud City where you could view the outside. That was a nice touch.

The ride into Mos Eisley in ANH could have been done alot better if you ask me. Looked fake, compared to the rest of the movie.

The improvements of the final space battle in ANH was very good, not that much needed to begin with to enhance it though.

And so was the Falcon scenes approaching Yavin IV, and the landing part which we never got to see in the original film.

There are alot of small things that I wouldn't want be taken away which has enhanced the Star Wars vastness feel of the original films, but some of the major stuff, like Han shooting second, replacing Sebastion Shaw with Hayden etc... is a no-no in my opinion.




Empire At War Moderator
&
SWGalaxies Moderator

- What we do in life, echoes in eternity!
- May the pants be with you!

A smile is the shortest distance between people - Victor Borge!


Custom Avatar by Wraith 8
Jan Gaarni is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 08:21 AM   #57
Vagabond
LFN Staff Emeritus
 
Vagabond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The Galactic Plumberman Alliance
Posts: 796
Cool Guy

I guess what bugs me is not the additional scenes that have been added, or the cleaning up the video and audio - it's the changing of already existing scenes and whole events that bothers me. Changing the color of Luke's lightsaber in ANH makes absolutely no sense. Having Greedo shoot first this time, instead of how it was originally, is just frustrating. I mean, what's next? Is Lucas going to change Luke's name to Gary? It's like - enough already. The movie is done - quit changing it. That's what frustrates me.

Now then, like I said the extra scenes I'm cool with in principle. However, the quality of the "original" extra Jabba / Han scene was horrible. Jabba looked like he was made of Play-dough, and every time I'd see Han "walk over his tail", I would just cringe. It just looks sooooo cheesy.

One extra scene I liked was the Falcon lifting out of hanger bay 94 with stormtroopers shooting at it. Very cool.

So in summary: (1) Change = Bad, (2) New = Cool (just do it well)

That's my opinion


All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
Vagabond is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 08:30 AM   #58
Jan Gaarni
Grand Moff
 
Jan Gaarni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,806
LFN Staff Member Forum Veteran 
What is this Luke's saber color change deal?
If it's the Falcon shot, then I think that is some type of grafics corruption going on.

Something, like with the badges in RotJ being all wrong, is of a technical natur and should just be ignored.

As for Greedo still shooting first, I can hold my peace about, as they have speeded that scene up so it appears more that Han shoots almost at the same time as Greedo, while ducking away at the same time. It's over so fast you can barely notice the cheesy headbob (photoshop job ) done by Han.

The whole Jabba scene in ANH looks cheesy to me, with the original actor, and with Jabba.




Empire At War Moderator
&
SWGalaxies Moderator

- What we do in life, echoes in eternity!
- May the pants be with you!

A smile is the shortest distance between people - Victor Borge!


Custom Avatar by Wraith 8
Jan Gaarni is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 08:49 AM   #59
Vagabond
LFN Staff Emeritus
 
Vagabond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: The Galactic Plumberman Alliance
Posts: 796
Cool Guy

I don't have the DVD's yet, but pictures I've seen show's Luke's lightsaber as green in the Falcon, instead of blue. Yes, it was probably a poor job of graphics enhancement (not sure why that scene needed enhancing in the first place), but whatever the reason, the result is that his lightsaber is green in the Falcon. And it is blue in Ben's house. It's just....."Aaaaaaaaa!!!"

I sort of liked the whole concept of the Jabba confrontation scene with Han in ANH - it added a connection to ESB with the reference to the bounty hunters that they ran into on Ord Mantell because of the price Jabba had put on his head. It's just that the quality of that new shot was so horrible. I wouldn't have minded if they'd just had Han walk directly behind Jabba without artificially lifting him up to appear as though he was walking over Jabba's tail. Sure, some people would have pointed out, "Hey, hey can't do that - Jabba's tail's in the way". But still, it would have looked much better than the goofy thing they do with Han now, elevating him and the sliding him back down over Jabba's tail - it just looks retarded beyond words.

Anyway, that was more than you asked


All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players...
Vagabond is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 09-30-2004, 04:23 PM   #60
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
Is that really true though? Yes, there are many fanatics who want the original version, but I wonder how much of the total customer base really cares? I mean, there are a lot of the younger generation that have more or less "grown up" with the SEs and Prequels. There are many fans who think the SEs are an improvement, and the majority probably don't care one way or the other. I know lots of non-fanatics who perfer the updated effects, and don't remember who shot first.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying not everyone is demanding the original version.
Ah, but the SE's came out only 7 years ago. So those fans would be what, 13 years old now (at 6 years old in 1997)? Who says the biggest buying fanbase for Star Wars are 13 year olds? EVERYBODY else (who hasn't been living under a rock for the last 27 years) would know about the originals. People who aren't fans won't get what's so great about the prequels either.

Not everyone is demanding the option to buy the originals on DVD, but a sizable enough number of fans are that Lucas is being stubborn in ignoring them (so far).


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn

Last edited by Kurgan; 09-30-2004 at 04:38 PM.
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2004, 08:17 AM   #61
cayqel
Rookie
 
cayqel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 93
Anyone else have green flashes during the Vader/Obi-wan fight?


I got my arm cut off again? You've got to be kidding me!
----------------
The only honor is victory.
cayqel is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2004, 12:59 PM   #62
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
I have. Those are the "blobs" everytime their sabers clash, and done intentionally, apparently. I thought they were white in previous versions of the movie, but maybe I'm wrong. They are very noticable now...


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-10-2004, 05:21 PM   #63
Shok_Tinoktin
Ray's Gun Nut
 
Shok_Tinoktin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The good end of Ray's Gun, or the bad end of an AA gun
Posts: 1,144
I think the new DVDs were great. I like the original version better than most of the changes they made (SE and DVD releases), but the increased quality BY FAR made up for anything else I may have wanted to complain about.
Shok_Tinoktin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-11-2004, 08:46 AM   #64
Kurgan
Headhunter
 
Kurgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: The Dawn of Time
Posts: 18,322
LFN Staff Member 10 year veteran! 
Yeah, it's like finding a couple of hairs in an otherwise 5 star meal at a fancy restaurant.


Download JK2 maps for JA Server|BOOT CAMP!|Strategic Academy|
(JA Server: 108.178.55.189:29070)


"The Concussion Rifle is the weapon of a Jedi Knight Player, an elegant weapon, from a more civilized community." - Kyle Katarn
Kurgan is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-11-2004, 09:44 AM   #65
Shok_Tinoktin
Ray's Gun Nut
 
Shok_Tinoktin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The good end of Ray's Gun, or the bad end of an AA gun
Posts: 1,144
Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
Yeah, it's like finding a couple of hairs in an otherwise 5 star meal at a fancy restaurant.

I couldn't say it better myself
Shok_Tinoktin is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-11-2004, 01:23 PM   #66
Lieutenant_kettch
Forumite
 
Lieutenant_kettch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: An Interceptor Cockpit
Posts: 650
The DVDs were amazing, however the extended celebration scene at the end(where they cycle through the planets more) and hayden sent chills through my spine. But, as has been said, hairy restaurant on 4 stars, blah blah blah
Lieutenant_kettch is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Star Wars > Original Trilogy > Your Star Wars DVD Reviews!

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.