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Old 04-16-2004, 12:49 AM   #41
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I agree that level design has been an issue with the past two Jedi Knight games. They're not neccessarily bad level designs, they're just not great, either.

I like the direction a lot of games are taking with bussling, lively level designs that seem to be a part of a larger, lifelike environment. I must admit that I'm more partial to games that favour exploration as a major part of the game and I'd like to see that incorporated more into the JK series. Instead of a linear level with a beginning and an end I'd like to see things like winding up on a Star Destroyer, filled with troopers and crewmen, and being able to sneak around to all sorts of areas, regardless of whether or not they're a part of your objectives...or at least try and make it look that way, like fighting your way through a crew barracks and then finding yourself in the cafeteria or something. Or better yet, imagine a level where you're on a ship that's been disabled by a Star Destroyer, fighting your way from your ship to the tractor beam controls on the Star Destroyer, or something like that, while being able to wander through lots of unimportant rooms on either ship, and possibly being rewarded for your curiosity with little secrets, hidden scripted sequences, or even just loads of ammo or weapons.

How about some crowds and bystanders in the city sequences? Or even allies? Even in the heart of a crimelord's abode, there's going to be servents, droids, waiters, cleaners, and many others that aren't going to pick up a blaster and start shooting at you. They might want to run and sound the alarm, though, if you don't keep an eye on them.

Maybe a level where you're on Tatooine with Kyle, or another Jedi character, looking for some secret hideout and you wander into a cantina...the cantina is not essential to finding the hideout, but if you mindtrick one of the patrons they will tell you where it is, cutting down your effort and impressing whoever is with you (who otherwise would have scolded you for wasting time in a cantina while on the job).

Stuff like that to make the environments seem more alive, make you seem more like you're in a living, breathing world (which you can also shoot all to heck and have it effect the course of the story and your dark/lightside leanings).

On a more personal note, I'd actually like to see them drop the post-Endor time period. It's getting stale. I'd rather see something either set in the prequel era, or even during the original trilogy time period while the Empire is still large and in charge. I also like the JA addition of personalizing your Jedi. I'd like to see more of that, even to the point of making it more modder-friendly for adding races, vehicles, and whatnot. Maybe instead of just dumping everything in the base folder, have seperate folders for lightsabers, maps, vehicles, playermodels, races, etcetera, to make it easier to keep track of what you have.


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Old 04-16-2004, 01:10 AM   #42
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And now that I think about it, if the game is going to offer you a choice of missions, how about having your performance on those missions, and what order you take them affect the others?

Like, say, one mission is taking out the hideout mentioned earlier, this mission opens up once you discover the location. Perhaps there's multiple locations you can enter the hideout from? Maybe the one you learn from the guy in the cantina is a different entrance than what you would have discovered through a more obvious route?

Maybe another mission opens up, shutting down the town's power supply, and you have to do that to accomplish something else, but if you do that mission before the hideout mission, then the hideout is mostly lacking power, accept for backup power in some places. There's no security devices on in the blacked out areas, but more bad buys patrolling than there otherwise would have been?

Things like that. It's been done in other games.


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Old 04-16-2004, 03:21 PM   #43
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Thats a good point. What i would like to see is an option of stealth. Being able to take different routes in the level, being stealthy and creeping past your enemy or charging in or even carefully going behind them and attacking from the back.

I feel that one of the main problems was the levels. JUst having one route just was boring, all the levels seemed the same just differnt boring puzzels. The fighting was ok but there wasnt much point with guns. In my opinion the levels werent sutable for guns. As soon as you came upon a sith you had to draw your saber. This may sound silly but i have always thought that a sheild with a sort of light saber kind of thing on the front would be good. This would give a gunner a much better chance of killing a sith

As someone has already said a jedi isnt a tank, maybe another jedi or two to accomany you would be a good option. Then this would mean a co-op mode could be introduced. Consoles get it on loads of games, why cant we?
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Old 04-16-2004, 04:12 PM   #44
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What I would like to see is everyone elses posts and being able to cut chunks out of walls, boxes, floor, etc with your saber and chuck them at the enemy. Also, if you cut the boxes open, and they had water in them it would splash out. Something like that would be very, very nice. You could pull a lot of tricks like Luke and Mara do in Vision of the Future.


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Old 04-16-2004, 06:59 PM   #45
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All sounds cool. Especially the force throw thing. And yeah, wearing a cape or a cloak would be really cool. What i would like to see is RPG stuff. Not as much as KOTOR, it must remain a shooter, but when you complete a mission, you get a number of points depending on how well you did and you assign them to force powers. And bring back the innocents and hiding places from JK. And more weapons, not only guns you'll almost never use, but some cool stuff like vibroknifes and stuff, and that you won't begin with your lightsaber like in JK adn JO. And it would be cool to be able to give your friends orders, like 'hold your fire.'

All wishful thinking, but it would be cool to see in a starwars game.
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Old 04-16-2004, 11:17 PM   #46
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I believe part of what Doomgiver mentioned was also brought up in another, similar thread. Have you ever played games like System Shock? I believe Deus Ex had a similar setup, you get something similar to experience points, and can put them into certain skills. Expand on that idea to things like force powers and you it could really streamline their current way of distributing force points.

I'd also like to see a more gradual, believable approach to your character's light and dark side leanings. In JA it's simply a point in the game where you it says, "Do this to remain lightside, do this to go darkside', at which point everyone I know has groaned, shaking their head.

And no, I would not like it to depend on the force powers you choose. Even in the movies we see so-called 'good' jedi using powers that the RPGs and videogames have referred to as 'darkside' powers. I like the Kyle approach to it, the powers are not inherently good or evil, it's how you use them.

I'd like it to depend on your actions throughout the game. Killing civilians, shooting live enemies in the back (though for droids and mechanicle gun emplacements and other automatum, it probably shouldnm't affect you, since they're not living beings).

It should depend on how you treat others in the game, if you muscle information out of someone, it could count towards darkside, but if you use midntrick or just talking the person into telling you what you need, it counts towards lightside. Maybe you could even perform tasks to get people to help you out.

If you kill enemies that have dropped their weapons and ran off, darkside. If you show mercy, maybe knocking people unconcious instead of killing them, it counts lightside. Things like that.

I still like the idea of multiple mission objectives. Some required by the Republic, the Jedi order, or whatever. Some asked by evil types such as Sith, evil warlords, or whatever tempting you with personal gain. Then personal mission objectives. Have some of these objectives directly conflicting, and which missions you tend to place a priority on will count towards your light/darkside ratings.

Of course, if your darkside rating was really high, that still wouldn't neccessarily mean you were Sith and fighting the Jedi, it might just mean you would get less and less important missions, or other Jedi sent to keep an eye on you, with your superiors warning you of the dangers of the darkside.

How you progressed through the game towards either a 'good' ending or a 'bad' ending would still depend on your actions in the game. What choices you make, out of a variety of choices.


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Old 04-18-2004, 02:05 AM   #47
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Here's a suggestion...

DO NOT EVER AGAIN HIRE THE ASSCLOWNS AT RAVEN TO TOUCH A JEDI KNIGHT GAME... *EVER*.

They have proven twice now that they are woefully inept at operating a multi-player game. You can't put out a MP game and change the game dynamics massively after only a month. You can't put out a game and have a fraction of the servers show up and still expect people to give a crap.

Please, for the love of God, give this game to someone worth a crap.


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Old 04-18-2004, 02:06 AM   #48
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^ Oh yeah, and this server hasn't existed for a long, long time because Raven was so lame that it never appeared in the freaking browser list.
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Old 04-18-2004, 02:34 AM   #49
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Well, they did fix it as soon as they got approval from LA. I don't think you should be so hard on them.


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Old 04-19-2004, 01:55 AM   #50
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Truthfully, guys i don't think the current devs would implement all that stuff that we would like to see. They are more action oriented as opposed to a more experienced dev like ion storm. Even the guys who developed far cry would be a good choice. Maybe raven could do the things posted here but truthfully i don't think they have the experience or know how to come up with a system similar to what was posted here. Then again they could surprise me.
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Old 04-19-2004, 09:31 AM   #51
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More stelth is what you need.
A bit more like "thief", Jedi is the keepr of the peace not a warrior.
We got force power to defend, confuse, heal, but you got to slash and kill all in order to move along.
Yep you can confuse the troopers, but as soon as they get free from the "mind trick" they will come after you, so why not greep them to deth take one??

I agree regards the push/pull force powers, it should be able to use them on most stuff, like boxes and be able to tear things from the walls.. and use the saber to melt doors..

One thing is for shure in JK4, I hope not to start again from a normal person and learn the powers from day one.. I have done that since DF1... time to use the force.


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Old 04-24-2004, 06:25 AM   #52
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Smile Force powers in the next jedi game

I want to see a whole lot of force abilities. like to make ceiling crumble when battlig a foe ,like when Dooku did Ep 2. also to be able to used the wirlwind in KOTOR. Any body else got any new force abilities sugestions
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Old 04-24-2004, 04:35 PM   #53
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being able to hurl objects at enemies would be usefull, like Darth Vader does to Luke in tESB.






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Old 04-24-2004, 04:55 PM   #54
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I agree with Radd that is should be more like Deus Ex, with more investigating and stuff to be done. You should start off with all of the force powers available but you only get goo through using them. multiple means to an end result (like in Deus Ex) would be good aswel, for example you could find the key or if you have some explosives you could blow it up. hacking computers to turn of turrets and that sort of thing. I think the most important thing would be that not everyone is against you. there shoud be people you can just talk to.






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Old 04-24-2004, 05:07 PM   #55
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Able to control the amount of force push/pull, like press and hold the key down for a powerful one, and tap the key for a light one.




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Old 04-24-2004, 06:46 PM   #56
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force destruction and foce blinding


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Old 04-24-2004, 08:01 PM   #57
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Force morph would be cool if you could morph in to any of the people in level that you have seen.


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Old 04-24-2004, 08:23 PM   #58
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Force wirlwind would be too similer to grip.

Being able to move objects from different angles would be cool though, as long as it gave you some control.
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Old 04-25-2004, 12:57 AM   #59
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Imagine moving objects the way you move someone with Grip, just more advanced. Seen Half-Life 2 trailers? Exactly.


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Old 04-25-2004, 01:08 AM   #60
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hmm, i'm thinking that instead of using a new engine, they shoudl reuse q3. but to make up for the graphics, use GIGANTICALLY HUGE maps. say if you get in an xwing, it'll take you atleast 5 minutes to get to one side from the center. and make it more gta like


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Old 04-25-2004, 01:23 AM   #61
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Nah, I think we've had enough of Q3.. Half-Life 2 looks awfully good though, I saw a trailer and thought I was looking at a movie


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Old 04-25-2004, 01:36 AM   #62
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In Dungeon Siege, the more you use an ability the more you get proficient at it.

Use bow 'n' arrow and your dexterity and range skills go up. Use fireball and your intelligence and combat magic goes up.

Use lightsaber and your saber offence/defence goes up. Use lightning and it'll get more powerful with every zap.

No points. Just select it and excerise it. Use push/pull for 800 years and you can lift an X-Wing out of the swamp with ease.

And yes, the environment has to be influenced. Moving object would be great. Look at how many times you have to move stuff in JA. Yavin training ground (4), Droid Recovery (4), Merchant Rescue (1), Vjun (2), Rift (2), Korriban (10). Did I miss any, 'cause I'm tired of fighting my way through troopers just to flick a switch.
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Old 04-25-2004, 02:51 AM   #63
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With the phsiics engines of today, I don't see the return of foce throw an impossibility. I await the day I can be crawling across a ledge and push some crates or rocks down on some stormtroopers.

I could go for different uses for mind play. Rather than just special scripted moments. Say, mind trick an officer and he'll pull his troops from the area. Or open a door for you. Or walk off a cliff, I don't know.

Of course, I suppose this doesn't go along with the current style of the Jedi Knight games, being mostly action. Then again, I like to play througn a level and stay as stealthy as I can. So you can see where I'm coming from. Or maybe not and I want these for my own selfish gain.
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Old 04-25-2004, 03:00 AM   #64
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Something like that would need to be capped, but it'd be a good idea. I don't know how you would implement that in MP though.


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Old 04-25-2004, 04:31 AM   #65
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neutral:
- force throw (or something that along the lines of moving stuff around, and then using force push to send it foward)
- force push (revamped like GG|crow said [awesome idea!] which could work with force throw to concentrate and object foward into your oponent unless they push it away)

Light:
- force blinding (maybe just for some fun... though it is of little use and i can see it causing alot of bitching in mp)
- force reflect (some sort of power to reflect energy in one way or another ala yoda EpII, eg maybe when a jedi absorbs force past a certain point they can use that energy to do some sort of attack)

dark:
- force destruction (again they would have to be very careful with this one as it could really upset the light/dark balance if not done right... but it is cool )

those are my suggestions

also maybe having parts of mp levels that you can push/pull/force throw to make them crumble down like dooku did
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:33 AM   #66
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For multiplayer? Um... didn't think about that.

Still, wouldn't it suck if you're about to deliver the deathblow after a lengthy dual, when someone drops a crate on your head? Dropping pianos have no honor!!!
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:36 AM   #67
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regarding the level designs, i want a game which has levels that slightly complex but are absolutely basic to find which way to go, and that it be puzzles and enemies that make the game hard. too me nothing is worse than a game which is hard simply coz you get lost every 2 seconds.... that was a problem with the tomb raider games 3 and 4 in my opinion...

also, anybody else wanna see the return of kyle katarn? or do you think its time to see a new hero, atleast for one game?
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:39 AM   #68
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Also i think it'd be good to see a full on kick arse saber engine just with the standard saber.

i don't know about you guys but if i had the choice of a game with 3 saber types and a good saber engine, or a standard saber game with a full on wicked kick arse engine... i'd chose the second one .

i'm willing to sacrafice the other styles in exchange for some good sword fighting in the next game . besides, did having a single saber make outcast any less enjoyable?
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:49 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Durocha
I await the day I can be crawling across a ledge and push some crates or rocks down on some stormtroopers.
Must... drop... pianos... on... troopers...

Quote:
Say, mind trick an officer and he'll pull his troops from the area. Or open a door for you. Or walk off a cliff, I don't know.
In JO ya gotta Mind Trick an Ugnaught to open a door in Bespin's furnace room. Scripted, but you didn't have to kill for once.

Quote:
Of course, I suppose this doesn't go along with the current style of the Jedi Knight games, being mostly action. Then again, I like to play througn a level and stay as stealthy as I can. So you can see where I'm coming from. Or maybe not and I want these for my own selfish gain.
I kinda like the stealthy mission in JO. The closest I got to stealth in JA was... well... not. I think the problem is it's being geared towards the MP fragfest, thereby making SP a half-assed plot that kinda fits in the Star Wars theme. In MP noone cares if you're good or evil, only if you're within weapons range.
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Old 04-25-2004, 08:54 AM   #70
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I already mentioned the 'Hlaf-Life 2 Gravity gun' effect in the JK4 thread - so I'd definitely like to see something along those lines for a Force Throw.

I think there should be a Force Levitate in there as well. If Luke can lift objects in ESB, then why not have the same ability in the games? Levitating yourself to reach one of those really high places that you can't reach with Jump...or levitating an ally who can't use Force Jump, so that they can continue to provide support in a tight situation. Or even using it to stop an object falling on others (like Yoda did in AOTC). Maybe if a bridge started to collapse, you could use the Force to keep it stable until the people on it got to safety. There are lots of potential uses for such a power.

Mind Trick needs tweaking to make it really useful. I'd prefer to see an effect similar to Persuasion in JK, where you just turn it on and become invisible to all enemies in an area for a short time. Persuasion was great for stealth.

Using the Force to improve the combat and morale of allies would also be good to see. Conversely, a Force power to weaken the morale and combat effectiveness of enemies for a short time.

Extend the use of Force Healing in SP so that you can heal allies as well (similar to Team Heal in MP).
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Old 04-25-2004, 07:28 PM   #71
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They are coming out witha new JK game?
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Old 04-25-2004, 08:17 PM   #72
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If we could make things float in air, atleast I hope that you can't just make a freaking bridge float when you're just a Padawan.

And as we all know, the beauties of SP are always nerfed when transferred into MP. (The new cool Drain thing isn't in MP, Seeing is Seeing, not Sense... etc)


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Old 04-25-2004, 11:23 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by MasterKakashi
They are coming out witha new JK game?
Nobody knows. This is all speculation, and purely a wishlist for if they did make another one.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:14 AM   #74
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I'd like to see fully customizable character appearance down to the smallest details, like what they have now with Jedi Academy but far more intricate. Like robes, hoods, arm cuffs, ect. Also perhaps better saber system. As for the vehicles, although no one has said much about them, I'd like it if they could be implemented into the next engine (Whichever it may be, if it ever comes to be) and be improved upon.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:51 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
Amen to that, JK1 and MotS were maybe twice as fast (or faster, it's been awhile, so I'd have to do a side by side comparison to know for sure) as JA or JK2.

After you play JK1/MotS MP for awhile you feel like you're moving in slow motion with JK2/JA!

Trust me it doesn't need to be any slower. ; )
Trust me it does .

Why? Because it is still way faster then movies (gun fights and saber battles), and when (if) they move to the doom3 engine which seems logical since its raven. THEY WILL BE FORCED TO go slower, because maintaining jedi academy's speed in the doom 3 engine will look foolish.

They will be forced to (for the benefit of a much better experience) slow down fighting to logical and more cautious saber wielding levels, and I would imagine make sabers and weapons more deadly as a result of the slower pace (otherwise death might be rare).

All I have said is inevitable with an improved engine. You simply cannot have shoddy or un realistically rapid animation as it will look blatantly wrong in a new tech engine, while engines like Q3 can forgive it and even welcome it.

The same is true for Q4, although it should be fast, because of the engine it wont be anything like Q3's speed and soon to be relatively jerky animation.


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Old 04-26-2004, 06:36 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smood
Trust me it does .

Why? Because it is still way faster then movies (gun fights and saber battles)...
But I don't want to play a movie. I want to play a video game
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Old 04-26-2004, 06:44 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
But I don't want to play a movie. I want to play a video game
3 things:

1. You are in the vast minority
2. A more realistic 'fantasy' experience may possibly equate to a greater experience
3. Evolution of games in this fashion is inevitable


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Old 04-27-2004, 06:22 PM   #78
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I think Lucasarts should throw development rights at the guys who did call of duty. The game was very impressive and what they did with the Q3 engine was probably the best pc squad shooter ever. Now imagine what they could do with a series like JK. I'm sure they would use a lot of raven's ideas to the fullest but make the game a more immersive experience. Just my opinion, though as there are other devs out there who make great games. As far as reality vs. videogame is concerned, i think there is a fine line that exists so that while you can make the game realistic, you should not forget the fact that it is a game and you want the player to have fun.
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:53 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smood
Trust me it does .

Why? Because it is still way faster then movies (gun fights and saber battles), and when (if) they move to the doom3 engine which seems logical since its raven. THEY WILL BE FORCED TO go slower, because maintaining jedi academy's speed in the doom 3 engine will look foolish.

They will be forced to (for the benefit of a much better experience) slow down fighting to logical and more cautious saber wielding levels, and I would imagine make sabers and weapons more deadly as a result of the slower pace (otherwise death might be rare).

All I have said is inevitable with an improved engine. You simply cannot have shoddy or un realistically rapid animation as it will look blatantly wrong in a new tech engine, while engines like Q3 can forgive it and even welcome it.

The same is true for Q4, although it should be fast, because of the engine it wont be anything like Q3's speed and soon to be relatively jerky animation.

hmm bro, the saber fights in ja and jo and even jk are slow compared to the ones in episode 1 and 2 and the clone wars toons. the fights were simply incredible, strategic and fast paced. as for gun combat that 2 was fast paced in the movies and clone wars series; Han solo nailing troopers and rodians here and there on the fly, clone commandos taking out battle droids with just dual pistols. i dunno, seems to me if you want to make it more movie like you'd have to accelerate even a game like jk and mots.


Redeemed!

An old school mod for jedi academy.
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:01 PM   #80
Weiser_Cain
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I think he meant the original trilogy. I may have said this before but I just want to be able to fight effectively without jumping or running around.
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