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Old 06-09-2004, 01:29 PM   #161
shukrallah
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So, in the next JK game, dont give admins a lot options. Instead of patches they should have had small *free* expansion packs, with bonus levels and models. The main problem with JA was that server bug, and some ATI and CD problems, other than that, it was fine.

Actually if I remember correctly patches to HL mods had new maps and stuff in them too... so, thats what raven should have done.
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Old 06-09-2004, 11:09 PM   #162
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Less options is a bad thing
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Old 06-09-2004, 11:41 PM   #163
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Yeah...why would you make a sequel with LESS features? I think they should work harder on balence this time. The dual sabers, and especially the lightsaber staff, are extreamly unbalenced.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:44 AM   #164
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Wink

I can wish for the best game in the world, but I can't control how many stupid people try to ruin the game or how many bad mods come out that become popular.

So, heh...


I agree though, more options are better. But people will never be satisfied with what they get, witness the admin mods and the endless saber dynamic changing mods in this and JK2.

For JA they really cut down on the patches. 1 Patch instead of 2 and it fixed bugs rather than changing gameplay (except for the backroll). They DID release several free maps, but they were seperate from the patches this time.

I agree though, the server bug was a major problem, and the bots were very poorly supported this time around. As if LucasArts didn't give them enough time to polish things up at the end.


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Old 06-10-2004, 02:39 AM   #165
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Make your own server or shop around for a server you like. I avoid the servers that I hate fairly easily. If they told you more about the server before you logged on it'd be even easier.
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Old 06-10-2004, 06:19 AM   #166
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I think they should add something to make not everyone equal all the time, make the powers and all more advanced.


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Old 06-10-2004, 11:51 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Less options is a bad thing
I agree that options are good. But there comes a point where there are too many (such as with admin mods). It gets to the point where no two servers are alike.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hiroki
I think they should work harder on balence this time.
I think the balance was pretty good in the base game. Admin mods with tons of pointless options unbalanced a lot of things.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hiroki
The dual sabers, and especially the lightsaber staff, are extreamly unbalenced.
How so? In the basejk game, they are very well balanced. Personally, I find the single saber to be the most powerful.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hiroki
I think they should add something to make not everyone equal all the time
They already have that. It is called admin mods. Admins are no longer equal to everyone else.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:04 PM   #168
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Not giving the SDK would however mean no modding support, and kill editing and therefore the game fairly fast.

If they kept the same engine for both SP and MP (Ala JK1) and released the SDK for both the game would prehaps last as long as JK1 has (people STILL make mods and levels for JK1)

I don't particularly care about the state of MP (which seems to be all thats being discussed here) since I can't play MP much except on LAN. But a strong SP would be nice.


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Old 06-10-2004, 01:02 PM   #169
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True, however..

That would cut into mod making, but people could still make maps and skins, which constitute the vast majority of mods made for any editable game...


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Old 06-10-2004, 01:25 PM   #170
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Re: True, however..

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
That would cut into mod making, but people could still make maps and skins, which constitute the vast majority of mods made for any editable game...
Egg-xatly.

And after seeing the response to the AOTC TC demo release, all the vast majority of players want is new models, skins, and maps. These are all possible without the SDK. Between that and cvars, the game is very editable without the source code.

The main result of the SDK is admin mods. I hardly think the community would die without those...
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Old 06-10-2004, 01:48 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
They already have that. It is called admin mods. Admins are no longer equal to everyone else.
In terms of gameplay - not commands - is what I was referring to.

Wolfenstein had some sort of rank feature, would be neat if the next JK game had that. Not something that make the Dark Jedi Masters superior to someone who was a Dark Jedi Apprentice, just very minor bonuses like Force Regeneration or how much damage your Force side power does (Jedis will stick to Light powers, Dark Jedis to Dark powers, etc).

But I have forseen the response to this idea, and it's a negative one. Make the next JK game more unique, not just a hack-slash FPS... add some more things to make it unique. Too bad we're all posting all these ideas for nothing, I haven't even heard of another JK game on its way...


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Old 06-10-2004, 01:55 PM   #172
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Amidala: I must say that I was on your CTF server (instagib) yesterday and was wishing for an "ignore" feature for a player that was flooding the text area for like 5 min. It was real hard to see. Great fun beyond that idiot.

I think that the idea of being able to go to spectator mode without losing all your points is a good one. There's been many times that I wanted to get up to get another cup of coffee or piss away the previous one... or answer the phone, get my 2-year old off the counter, etc.

I would also like to see cooperative play. I envision a game set in the Jedi purge period where the empire has sent bountyhunters and imperials to find and erradicate the Jedi. Missions could be escape and evasion; link up with other Jedi; sabotage imperial installations; meet with rebel agent(s) as Jedi; meet with Jedi as a rebel agent; etc., etc.

The SP game would be easy to imagine, but a multiplayer game with NPCs that the player (whether bountyhunter or Jedi) could blend in with would be interesting. The goal of the imperial/bountyhunter side would be counter to that of the Jedi goals and each would benefit from trying to stay hidden. The trick would be that the unarmed player would have to look like NPCs and not be carrying around a lightsaber.

Also, killing NPCs would have a negative effect on the score (much like falling off a cliff), encouraging both sides not to kill wildly.

As a team, the players would have to work together to acheive their goals, some being body guards, spies and observers, while others going for the main objective. Chat bubbles would have to be done away with, which will get rid of some of the "chat-kill" complaints.

In a game like that, there can be no honor-rulz complaints, since the goal is to kill your enemy while remaining hidden for as long as possible. To figure out who the enemy is different techniques could be used: the imperials/bountyhunters could have a darkforce jedi that can use forcesense then tell his/her teammates; the Jedi could do the same. The balance to that is by using forcesense, you give yourself away in some subtle way.

Also, the players would have to learn to act like NPCs! Mimic their movements.. and avoid movements that NPCs don't do, like try to jump to precipaces or stick to walls....

Of course, I'd like to see duel and ffa/tffa gamemodes stay, but with some of the changes that others here have noted. I have to agree with Wilhuf on the tournament mode for multiplayer as well as the ignore player function. He also raises a valid point about voice chat: the profanity and stupidity will just take on a new form... I personally prefer not to here the squeeky voice of a 12 year-old uttering so-called adult language. The mute button only eliminates the ability to communicate altogether, but perhaps individual mutes for each player...?

Amidala: Good reasons for public chat - answering questions of new players quickly & efficiently; organizing a vote kick (not everyone may be clear on why a kick was called for vote); organizing a map switch (asking everyone what map they might prefer); general commeraderie during the game (I enjoy games where chatting is kept to a minimum, but I have to acknowledge that there are times when I like making quick comments to those I know or have played with previously); and, for large maps with few people, letting everyone know where each other are located within the map, "big brawl in the Throne Room!"


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Old 06-10-2004, 02:44 PM   #173
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Re: True, however..

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
That would cut into mod making, but people could still make maps and skins, which constitute the vast majority of mods made for any editable game...
Even OJP?
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Old 06-10-2004, 03:58 PM   #174
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Re: Re: True, however..

Quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Even OJP?
Or Forcemod III?
Or Movie Battles II?
What about Promod?


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Old 06-10-2004, 04:53 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Master William
In terms of gameplay - not commands - is what I was referring to.
So was I. Admins can be empowered (or whatever the term is these days) and do whatever they want to you. They can make it so they don't take damage. They can make it so they have powers you don't. That is all in terms of gameplay.

Uneven abilities are great when you are the one who is at the top. It is not so fun when you are at the bottom. Are you willing to always be the apprentice and allow me to be the master?

Quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
Even OJP?
Quote:
Originally posted by AIVAS
Or Forcemod III?
Or Movie Battles II?
What about Promod?
Those are all great mods. But Kurgan said the vast majority, not all mods.

But the mods you mention sort of proves his point. How many people played Promod compared to hoe many used the Vader model? IIRC there were only a few servers with Promod. Doing a quick look on jk3files, the JA+ admin mod has 6433 downloads and JA reloaded has 3811. But someone makes an Anakin model and it gets 9932 downloads, and FFA maps like Shroom's Deathstar has 11928.

The numbers are not really important. The point is that skins, models, and maps get the most use and constitute the majority of the mods out there.

This is not to say that the "code-altering mods" can't be of the utmost quality, nor that they can't be popular.
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Old 06-10-2004, 05:51 PM   #176
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I may be new here, but the complaints are the same across online gaming...even with one as simple as Infantry on SOE. However, ive always played games with the mindset of having fun and fun is what i strive for. I dont care how I die who it was that killed me or what they say after they are done; and vise versa.

what has drawn me to JA more and more is the oportunity to play a jedi/sith/guy with a lightsaber. yes, a little fantasy, i confess, but the Honor Code that you guys talk about is a bit much.

you will always have idiots complain and whine; its just their lot in life and they will do it regardless of what settings are changed or who killed them. Some people just like to complain. Period. perhaps they were dropped as a child or left unattended while reruns fo the Brady Bunch were playing on the tube, I dont know, but thats what they do. It has been that way when games were played with paper and die and it will be that way when we plug a socket into our heads and head into VR. yes its frustrating and im a bit taken back that their isnt an ignore command that you can use....someone remedy that one soon, ok?

btw, I support the use of free chat, but if you dont want to be killed then, damnt, go to spec. Perhaps someone can make a little room where all the chatters can congregate and talk it up while the rest of us kill each other in a peaceful yet violent way. if you are worried about points then youre playing for all the wrong reasons. points mean nothing and, in ten years, will still mean nothing. this isnt an experienced ranking game, i gather, where your skills are based off the number of points you have gotten. the server admin sets the standard that everyone uses and you go from there. so first off, forget about points and just have fun.


on force, weapons, and light sabers.
Personally, I like the idea of being able to run around and use a LS and, if i wanted to, guns. I actually enjoy the missle launcher and the ole Stormtrooper special, but when those things are limited it notches down the aspect of the game. I would probably be inclined to leave a server where most of the people are chatting or I'd run around and kill them as quickly as I can before i was booted. i dont know, just sounds like fun to aggriavate a few people...


I also dont fully understand why it would be wrong for someone to only use a lightsaber if thats what they want to do or use only weapons or even a combination of the two.

ack, ive ranted again. regardless, some pub chat can be fun and interesting, but if thats all you do then move along. people play games like this for reason and to have fun. overmoderation and absurd limits are the things that drive people away and not the chat.

my ideal server would be one with the intention of being fun with a great mix of people killing, dueling, working together, and just having a great time. are their any like that before I spend my time looking for one?


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Old 06-10-2004, 07:33 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkinWalker
Amidala: I must say that I was on your CTF server (instagib) yesterday and was wishing for an "ignore" feature for a player that was flooding the text area for like 5 min. It was real hard to see. Great fun beyond that idiot.


He also raises a valid point about voice chat: the profanity and stupidity will just take on a new form... I personally prefer not to here the squeeky voice of a 12 year-old uttering so-called adult language. The mute button only eliminates the ability to communicate altogether, but perhaps individual mutes for each player...?

Amidala: Good reasons for public chat - answering questions of new players quickly & efficiently; organizing a vote kick (not everyone may be clear on why a kick was called for vote); organizing a map switch (asking everyone what map they might prefer); general commeraderie during the game (I enjoy games where chatting is kept to a minimum, but I have to acknowledge that there are times when I like making quick comments to those I know or have played with previously); and, for large maps with few people, letting everyone know where each other are located within the map, "big brawl in the Throne Room!"
As long as you are playing a team game (two of my JA servers are all-CTF all the time) and the idiot\spammer isn't on your team

/set cg_teamChatsOnly 1

turns off public chat and allows only team chat (for you). I have it on a toggle

/bind <key> cg_teamChatsOnly !

so pressing <key> toggles on\off public chat (while keeping team chat).

Voice-com servers like Teamspeak and Ventrilo already allow you to mute individual players on a channel. I don't know if UT2004 has the same feature. I assume it will be standard as VOIP becomes standard with games.

I was debating to make a point about all the bad things that come from public chat, so people will think about it. The most recent complaints from my server were about a player who would chat "5.....4.....3.....2......1..." and then proceed to fill up everyone's screens with chat spam binds. You guys act as if I have the power to dictate whether or not public text chat will be available in future games-- of course it will be. I just hope that VOIP com makes it and "nice chatkill lamer", chat spam, etc. a thing of the past.

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Old 06-10-2004, 08:01 PM   #178
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Hey, great toggle. I'm adding it to my bindlist!

I was simply echoing your point about the need for an ignore feature that drops down something like the vote menu... instead of voting to kick, you "chose to ignore."

I get a little unnerved at the people who stand around chatting and not playing, but by and large I think it not going to happen on servers like yours where you have "all kills legal." Hell, I go out of my way to nail a person with a chat bubble over their head and expect others to do it to me ... even if I'm in the console setting a bind or something.

Your points about the negative issues of public chat are good, but I would still rather have the ability to do it since I think the right reasons offset the negative.

Thanks again for the bind... if I'm on the server again and someone starts it, I'll be sure to let everyone know the toggle. Question: could the person have been in spectator mode? and if so, would this eliminate his/her actions? Spectator considered a "team" to the game, right?

The person yesterday didn't have a screen name, just the ":" before his/her text. I couldn't figure out who it was.


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Old 06-10-2004, 09:05 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkinWalker
The person yesterday didn't have a screen name, just the ":" before his/her text. I couldn't figure out who it was.
I won't tell how it's done (because someone else will, but even then, someone will just find a way to disable it ) But there is a way to get your name to show up as blank.


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Old 06-12-2004, 01:28 AM   #180
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So you're saying that your name can show up as a blank, but in the serverstatus command it'll be normal? PM me if you just don't want it public.. I'm not going to spread it around, I just want to figure out a way to pinpoint who it is next time so I can dime him out or initiate a vote/kick if the server allows.


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Old 06-13-2004, 04:00 PM   #181
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Amidala, you sure seem to think the only thing people use chat for is spewing out random crap like the disco thing, whining, jokes, etc. but chat is used for way more than that. For example, SITH clan, when they're making those Matrix movies, they have to have public chat all the time to plan out a scene or something. It would be too huge a pain in the ass. Say you're in your clan server and someone is pissing your clan off by laming or something? If your all gonna plan to get him back, it would be a pain to have to go to spec and go back in the game as you chase him around and talk to your clan.


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Old 06-13-2004, 08:01 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clone L68362
Amidala, you sure seem to think the only thing people use chat for is spewing out random crap like the disco thing, whining, jokes, etc. but chat is used for way more than that. For example, SITH clan, when they're making those Matrix movies, they have to have public chat all the time to plan out a scene or something. It would be too huge a pain in the ass. Say you're in your clan server and someone is pissing your clan off by laming or something? If your all gonna plan to get him back, it would be a pain to have to go to spec and go back in the game as you chase him around and talk to your clan.
Play the game in windowed mode and have MSN messenger, AIM, or irc running in another window, with all your clan mates signed on. Chat in the chat program, play games in the game program.

Or use Ventrilo or Teamspeak (both are free downloads) for voice communication instead of text chat. Your clan could be communicating by voice and coordinating actions without stopping to type anything.

I just want people to do a cost-benefit analysis of public text chat. I'm not saying it is never useful, but you have to weigh the small benefits against the cost of having it i.e. whining, spamming, arguing, bigoted insults, "chatkilling", etc.

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Old 06-13-2004, 08:34 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
Play the game in windowed mode and have MSN messenger, AIM, or irc running in another window, with all your clan mates signed on. Chat in the chat program, play games in the game program.
There would still be chat-killing, except this would be whined about even worse, because you have to click out of the game and leave your player idle and defenseless. With in-game chat at least you can defend yourself quickly.
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Old 06-14-2004, 06:09 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by TK-8252
There would still be chat-killing, except this would be whined about even worse, because you have to click out of the game and leave your player idle and defenseless. With in-game chat at least you can defend yourself quickly.
The first part of my post that you quoted (using windowed mode and chatting in a genuine chat program) was directed only at this "justification" of public text chat:

Quote:
...but chat is used for way more than that. For example, SITH clan, when they're making those Matrix movies, they have to have public chat all the time to plan out a scene or something.
I don't think most players are making "Matrix movies" most of the time. Those that are can keep the the screen clear of public chat while making their "movies".

The rest of my post deals with the other listed "justifications". I thought my breaking things up into paragraphs would imply I was answering each one of their points.

The...next...time...I...will...be....more....caref ul.....and...take
...the...time...to....put...each...of...their....s entences....in....
a....separate....quote.....and....answer.....each. ..point....
individually....because...some...people...might... not...
understand...otherwise.

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Old 06-14-2004, 09:51 AM   #185
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quit your attempt at removing chat, it's not gonna happen and you're probably the only one in the whole world that wants it removed.


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Old 06-14-2004, 03:55 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by Master William
quit your attempt at removing chat, it's not gonna happen and you're probably the only one in the whole world that wants it removed.
Quote:
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
(Don't worry all you chat-aholics, no one is going to take away your precious ability to chat and whine and say "lamer" and "guns are gay" and "I'd own you in a duel" and "I'd like some bantha soup please" and "type /disco in the console for cool breakdance moves" and various racial and homophobic slurs, no matter how much it kills this game. But I can dream, can't I?)
Quote:
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I was debating to make a point about all the bad things that come from public chat, so people will think about it.

...You guys act as if I have the power to dictate whether or not public text chat will be available in future games-- of course it will be. I just hope that VOIP com makes it and "nice chatkill lamer", chat spam, etc. a thing of the past.
Quote:
Originally posted by Amidala from Chop Shop
I just want people to do a cost-benefit analysis of public text chat. I'm not saying it is never useful, but you have to weigh the small benefits against the cost of having it i.e. whining, spamming, arguing, bigoted insults, "chatkilling", etc.
Understand now?

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Old 06-14-2004, 04:10 PM   #187
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I understand what you mean, it should be less used than it is at the moment, etc. And I know that your opinions won't automatically transform into fact, but I'm just saying that having to go to MSN or whatever each time I wanted to say something is just absurd.


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Old 06-15-2004, 02:21 PM   #188
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I was on two of your servers on Thursday and found the chat extremely pleasurable and no n00bish. I dont recall any whining or fights going on.

coming where I was it seemed nice being in an environment not filled with flames and such.


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Old 06-15-2004, 04:06 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by Prime
What should they have fixed?
I wouldn't worry about him so much Prime, he's just one of those bitter ****tards that got pissy when their one trick pony toys like pull/backstab were removed.
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Old 06-15-2004, 04:14 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
I wouldn't worry about him so much Prime, he's just one of those bitter ****tards that got pissy when their one trick pony toys like pull/backstab were removed.
I figured he might respond with something like that.
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:27 AM   #191
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You know what I'd like? I'd like to actually feel like I'm being trained to be a jedi. Really embrace the rpg aspect of this action/rpg. I'd like to come to the attention of some jedi and or sith and have to travel down one of those paths, and I don't want to feel rushed like I did in JA.
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:21 PM   #192
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Have you tried KOTOR? It is a lot more like that...
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Old 06-23-2004, 01:44 PM   #193
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Very funny, you know I've tried KOTOR. Kotor is a turned based rpg. JA is an action/rpg.
It doesn't have to be D20 to be an rpg, all you need is a role to play. The storyline in JA was pathetic, I only had one choice to make in the entire game!
Part of being a Jedi for me is trying to figure out the best way to solve problems. In JA there was no choice in how you solved problems. You had a objective and you had to kill everything in you're way untill you got to your objective, wich you then killed.
I'm just looking for a more immersive experience. I want to learn force powers not pick them from a menu, be taught how to fight with a lightsaber and when I had the computer it's electronic ass be rewarded for my actual skill not a set of numbers.
Of course if you just wanted to run into a room and start cutting off hands until someone talked you could but you get a few dark points and a stern talking to from luke(thats assumeing you didn't get a blaster bolt in the back). I guess I want the next game to be more like Deus Ex(the good one not IW) than Quake...
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:52 PM   #194
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Well, you have to remember that the Jedi Knight series started with Dark Forces which was basically a Star Wars Doom game...I don't think they probably want to change that for the Jedi Knight series. Perhaps they could make a new series, but I'm pretty sure they expect people who want an RPG game to play Galaxies or KotOR/KotOR2 instead...personally I enjoy playing Jedi Academy more than KotOR because it's simple fast action. I do enough thinking when I'm working, when I play a game I don't want to worry about fully stepping into some one else's shoes...I'd rather just slice 'n dice and watch the story unfold in cutscenes like watching a movie.
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Old 06-23-2004, 10:24 PM   #195
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You sir, are evil.
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Old 06-23-2004, 10:25 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally posted by Weiser_Cain
JA is an action/rpg.
It's an FPS.
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:06 AM   #197
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Oups, had my old posts still left here... now it looks like I was talking to myself, but I was in fact talking to [nWo] Filth, a flamer that quickly got banned


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Old 06-24-2004, 04:50 AM   #198
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Quote:
Kotor is a turned based rpg.
Does this mean that you take in turns to do damage to each other, like final fantasy. I hope not, I hate them sort of games.


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Old 06-25-2004, 09:16 PM   #199
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I must say that I think the development team for jedi academy went a little to overboard in regards to dual sabers and staff sabers. In the star wars universe these waepons were rare and only wielded by only the most skilled of jedi, not unlike the fake reborn dark jedi of JA. I like the engine that is in place already, and to change it into any other would be a mistake for purists sucah as myself. If a new game is being developed I hope the graphics are more enhanced, better combat animations, better graphics, and a revamped player model creation.


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Old 06-25-2004, 10:55 PM   #200
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Jedi and Sith are also supposed to be incredibly rare, but concessions are made for those things in a game because everybody who's a fan wants to relive those parts of the movies in the game. This just gives you the excuse.

It's also why the EU is obsessed with super weapons, lost Jedi and other "movie-ish" happenings. Those things are "associated with the coolness of Star Wars (the movies)" so they get rehashed because people like them, even if it makes little sense for those things to be happening over and over or suddenly be everywhere when they were at first rare.

It's like Star Trek and the Borg. This mysterious enemy from the far reaches of space encounters the Enterprise due to a freak occurance (Q), then all of a sudden they are in like every episode, because the writers know that people like to see them, no other reason.


I mean, which would you rather play, in all honestly, a game where you're a moisture farmer or Imperial janitor who never sees any battles or crazy things happen or one of the heroes from the movies having amazing adventures and interacting with other famous characters, doing some of the things we saw happen in the films?*

Just like in real life, the vast majority of folks in the SW galaxy would have rather humdrum everyday lives. The movies just show us the most exciting things that happen.




*Though I must admit, the Adventures of Galactic Plumberman does have a special place in my heart... ; )


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