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Old 11-17-2004, 09:07 AM   #321
Nairb Notneb
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The pictures that I've seen of GG were of him riding a "Wheel Tank" like vehicle with a large canon on it. And I to fall back on the idea that Grievous is either Maul or Sifo Dyas (or both as some believe), my feeling that this is true has been strengthened. I'm not positive that it is true yet, but my suspicion that it is has been increased because I re-watched the "Making of Grievous" movie from the website, and at the end, George Lucas says that "Grievous is the leader of the droid army. He is an Alien in a droid shell which is an echo of what Anakin is to become".

This basically says that Grievous is a foreshadowing tool for Anakin's final transformation into Darth Vader in the story line. Plus he will be very cool. This leans me towards the possibility that he could have been Sifo or Maul. If Grievous was a character that we were familiar with that was transformed into a cyborg, that gives his transformation more credibility in this story, thus giving Anakin's transformation more credibility. Just as Dooku's joining the Dark Side is a foreshadowing of Anakin's fall and it tells us that it is possible for Anakin to do so.


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Old 11-17-2004, 10:54 AM   #322
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I still don't believe Grievious could be Maul. First would be the eyes as Viceroy pointed out. Unless somehow Maul lost his eyes falling down the bottomless pit, they must be his original ones.
Second, he is supposed to be a great general and Maul certainly doesn't look like one. He seems more of a solo Jedi hunter then an army leader who knows a lot about battle tactics. This is ,of course, only an assumption.


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Old 11-17-2004, 11:26 AM   #323
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Well certainly the eyes is the major problem now with my theory now that Greivous is no longer non-humanoid. However the fact Greivous is a great leader while Maul supposedly isn't doesn't necessarily hold. Sure, he was a solo Jedi hunter in TPM rather than a leader, but that doesn't mean he can't also be a leader. As we all know Vader turns out to be both a decent solo Jedi hunter and a great leader; Maul could quite possibly be too.


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Old 11-17-2004, 12:20 PM   #324
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If you look at the art you also see that it's his chest that's got organic elements and if he went into wheel droid mode that would certainly do some major damage.

Looks like the Eyes have it.


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Old 11-18-2004, 03:12 AM   #325
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Originally posted by DK_Viceroy
If you look at the art you also see that it's his chest that's got organic elements and if he went into wheel droid mode that would certainly do some major damage.

Looks like the Eyes have it.
Very clever Viceroy, you must be very proud of yourself. I would be. I'm very jealous of your wit.

Any way, your astute observation of the apparent difference in the eyes of Darth Maul and General Grievous brings great strength to your argument for GG being his "own man", the idea of which I agree with, but to be clear as mud, I am still holding on to the idea that it is possible that Grievous could be either Maul or Sifo Dyas reborn. I'm at about a 35% chance of it being possible.

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/ima...king_sw-02.jpg

To look at the teaser trailer again you might have also noticed with your amazing powers of observation that there are two individuals shown that are also presenting new differences that were not previously shown to us. Anakin's eye's (which now look much like Darth Mauls) and Sidious' (a.k.a. Palpatine) teeth which seems to have quickly changed from his AOTC appearance to his ROTJ appearance, bad teeth and all.

Also, to venture a point of view (which can hold true from certain aspects) although G. Grievous' eyes do not appear to be the same as Darth Maul's eyes (assuming they are the same person) neither do his arms, nor his legs, nor does any other part of his body. This being said, then General Grievous doesn't look like any character from any Star Wars movie ever made so he can not possibly be anything but General Grievous. Also, Darth Vader doesn't look like anybody else either, therefore he cannot be Anakin.

As I have said, the eyes that we see him having may not be his own, or his originals. But I agree that the fact that they are not the same seems to say that GG and DM are not the same person.


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Old 11-18-2004, 05:39 AM   #326
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Indeed some good points there Nairb. Here's my percentages of confidence in the theories:

General Greivous = Darth Maul : 25% confident
General Greivous = Sifo-Dyas : 50% confident
Darth Maul = Sifo-Dyas : 70% confident
Grevious, Maul and/or Sifo-Dyas are connected in some way : 85% confident


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Old 11-18-2004, 06:14 AM   #327
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I have a grand total of 2% confidence in all of those theories since Episode 1 and all of it's loose ends were tied up in Episode 1 Episode 2 however had plenty of people who could have been Sifo-Dyas did anyone dare to think he could have been palpatine?


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Old 11-18-2004, 08:00 PM   #328
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It is impossible for Sifo-Dyas to be Palpatine. Obi-Wan Kenobi knew of Sifo-Dyas, and knew he was killed over ten years before he arrived on Kamino. Obi-Wan Kenobi also knew of Palpatine, since he met him on several occaisions ten years before he arrived on Kamino. Therefore since Obi-Wan Kenobi knows both Sifo-Dyas and Palpatine it is impossible for them to be the same person.

So I have 0% confidence in that theory.


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Old 11-18-2004, 10:52 PM   #329
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Did anyone think that maybe Sifo Dyas did not go to Kamino but sent a transmission to Kamino ordering the army and pretending to be who he claims. The Prime Minister did not even know what he looked like plus he also stated he claimed to be the leader of the Jedi Order. I'd say Sifo Dyas is just an alias of Palpatine or Dooku.

I think Greivous is a brand new bad guy. I just don't see the connection between Maul or Sifo.

Another theory is Sifo-Dyas is Qui Gon. Dooku could have persuded him to order the army before the Battle of Naboo.

Just some possible theories.


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Old 11-18-2004, 11:25 PM   #330
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That could actually be possible.

Vostok there is no reason behind your reasoning.

Just because Obi Wan knows the pair of them doesn't mean he MET Sifo-Dyas on Kamino when he was ordering the army?
It would propably be hard for a member of the Jedi Council at the time to go missing while a Senator to go missing for a week would be quite normal and wouldn't arose suspicions.


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Old 11-19-2004, 02:43 AM   #331
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The Kamino's were under the impression that Sifo-Dyas was one of the leading members of the Jedi Council. They said he placed the order about ten years ago. Qui-Gon had done something that defied the Council once (hence Obi-Wan's comment about defying the council again master . . .if you wouldn't you would be on the council). Maybe he and Dooku and worked together to order the clones and Qui-Gon was posing as Sifo to order them. But would he do that? Qui-Gon had defiance in him, but deceit? I don't think we saw that trait. Maybe he was on the verge, but I don't believe that. He could have been duped by Dooku, especially since he was his padawan, there would have been a bond, a trust of some kind I'm sure, but I find it difficult to go with.

The most like story is that Dooku posed as Sifo, ordered the clones. Dooku hired Jango, which we know because Jango tells Obi that he has never heard of Sifo but that he was hired by a man named Tyrannus. This leads me to believe that Dooku posed as Sifo to the Kaminos. The problem with this is that now Dooku's face is all over the Holonet as the leader of the Confederates and they would know who he really is. Assuming they have contact with the Republic news of some sort. So, Dooku could not have posed as Sifo without the Kaminos figuring it out. It was either Sifo, Palpatine or somebody else posing as Sifo.


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Old 11-19-2004, 07:05 AM   #332
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The Prime Minister did not even know what he looked like plus he also stated he claimed to be the leader of the Jedi Order.
Neither of those points is true. Nothing is in the movies to suggest Lama Su doesn't know what Sifo-Dyas looks like. And he never stated Sifo-Dyas was the leader, just a leading member, which would seem to be true judging from Yoda's and Mace Windu's reaction to Obi-Wan's report.
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I'd say Sifo Dyas is just an alias of Palpatine or Dooku [...] Another theory is Sifo-Dyas is Qui Gon.
It can't be an alias, since Sifo-Dyas was definitely a real person. He existed in the public eye at the same time as Palpatine the Senator and Dooku the Jedi Knight and Qui-Gon the Jedi Knight did, so he can't just be an alias of any of those three. It's possible one of them posed as Sifo-Dyas, but I'll address that idea below.
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Maybe he and Dooku and worked together to order the clones and Qui-Gon was posing as Sifo to order them [...] The most like story is that Dooku posed as Sifo, ordered the clones. Dooku hired Jango, which we know because Jango tells Obi that he has never heard of Sifo but that he was hired by a man named Tyrannus.
I find it very hard to believe anybody posed as Sifo-Dyas to order the clones. Here's why: what is the point of posing as someone to order the clones when you could just do it yourself? This is best evidenced by the fact Jango says a man named Tyranus hired him. If Dooku were posing as Sifo-Dyas to order the clones, wouldn't he keep up the charade to hire the clone template rather than give away his Sith name?

Let's look at it logically. The Kaminoans are a naive people and are very trustworthy. They built an entire army based on one man's word - Sifo-Dyas - and didn't even bother to check with the Jedi Council if Sifo-Dyas had authorisation to make such an order. They are detached from the Republic, so much so they didn't even know Sifo-Dyas had died ten years ago! So they met Sifo-Dyas, didn't know if he was really from the Jedi Council, didn't check him out at all, and didn't keep in contact with him. If this is the case why would someone bother to pose as a Sifo-Dyas to get the army created? Dooku or Qui-Gon, being both Jedi Knights, could just as easily front up to Kamino and say "I'm Count Dooku/Qui-Gon Jinn, and the Jedi Council has instructed me to order a Clone Army from you." Tha Kaminoans would build it anyway if they were paid right, they didn't need to pose as Sifo-Dyas to get the job done. For that matter even Palpatine could have gotten the army ordered by himself. He was an important member of the Galactic Senate, and since the army was being built for the Republic the Kaminoans would once again ask no questions and get the army built, as long as the money was there.

So my question to those who think someone just posed as Sifo-Dyas is this: why did they need to pose as Sifo-Dyas?


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Old 11-19-2004, 08:03 AM   #333
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Vostoki the Sith's most powerful weapon is the confusion and mistrust they can generate.

Having two different people seemingly unconected in the scheme would make things even more uncertain they would be asking who is Tyranus what is his connection so to Sifo-Dyas how did they meet how did they know about the Kaminoans how did they manage to get authorisation.

Sifo-Dyas may just be Sifo-Dyas just under one of Sidious' Mind tricks.

It can't be Dooku most things agree he left around the time of the battle of Naboo and he wouldn't have hooked up with Sidious that fast so it wouldn't have been him however it never says when they started on the Army since Boba looks a little younger than 10 years maybe 8.


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Old 11-19-2004, 09:10 AM   #334
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I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Lucas won't even tell us who Grievous is. He will simply appear in the movie, Yoda will slice him through (or Anakin, or somebody, or Jar-Jar) and that will be the end of it. No questions answered. I'll go crazy. And, these forums will be lit up with this same discussion on "who is Grievous". Then we will come out and give this same old opinion again, all sides, and already be tired of it and still not get anywhere with it. Meanwhile, George Lucas is laughing all the way to the bank.

But, at least we have added some intelligent thought to our debates with our last few posts.


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Old 11-19-2004, 09:47 AM   #335
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No I've heard that after Grevious meats his untimely end
spoiler:
on Naboo of all places
at
spoiler:
Obi Wan's
hands we see Grevious Faceplate come off and see his face dripping Bodily Fluids.

We don't see anyone else with cat eyes do we?

He can't be from ep 1 or 2 and he obviously won't be from the OT.


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Old 11-19-2004, 12:13 PM   #336
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I believe Sifo-Dyas will be the Yoda of the PT. The secret that Lucas will bring with him into his grave.


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Old 11-19-2004, 02:22 PM   #337
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Dooku or Qui-Gon, being both Jedi Knights, could just as easily front up to Kamino and say "I'm Count Dooku/Qui-Gon Jinn, and the Jedi Council has instructed me to order a Clone Army from you." Tha Kaminoans would build it anyway if they were paid right, they didn't need to pose as Sifo-Dyas to get the job done. For that matter even Palpatine could have gotten the army ordered by himself. He was an important member of the Galactic Senate, and since the army was being built for the Republic the Kaminoans would once again ask no questions and get the army built, as long as the money was there.
It's 2 risky for Palpy to order the clones, jedi came in contact with them years later and if yoda or obi wan found out it was him all hell would break lose. On the other hand palp fooled a whole Republic I'm sure some Kamino fodder is no problem.


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Old 11-20-2004, 06:37 AM   #338
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It can't be Dooku most things agree he left around the time of the battle of Naboo and he wouldn't have hooked up with Sidious that fast so it wouldn't have been him however it never says when they started on the Army since Boba looks a little younger than 10 years maybe 8.
Well even if the Clone Army was started ten years ago, Dooku must have been there at it's creation, as it was him (Darth Tyranus) who hired Jango in the first place, so that argument doesn't necessarily hold.
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I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Lucas won't even tell us who Grievous is. He will simply appear in the movie, Yoda will slice him through (or Anakin, or somebody, or Jar-Jar) and that will be the end of it. No questions answered.
If indeed that is how it happens I'll be switching to the "Greivous is nobody" camp.
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I believe Sifo-Dyas will be the Yoda of the PT. The secret that Lucas will bring with him into his grave.
What do you mean like that? We know who Yoda is...


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Old 11-20-2004, 06:53 AM   #339
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We don't know what Yoda is. What kind of alien he is. That's what I meant. It's the secret that Lucas never told us and never allowed any EU author to write about his origins.
Sifo-Dyas could be then be the Yoda of the PT.


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Old 11-20-2004, 07:13 AM   #340
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Yoda's race is not important to the story. Sifo-Dyas' motives and background are important to the story.


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Old 11-20-2004, 07:27 AM   #341
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Your point is?

I'm trying to say that the motives of Sifo-Dyas and his background might be kept secret by Lucas just like how he never revealed the origins of Yoda.


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Old 11-20-2004, 07:36 AM   #342
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My point is Yoda's origins can be kept secret because it isn't important. Sifo-Dyas' motives shouldn't be kept secret because it's important to the story.


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Old 11-20-2004, 07:40 AM   #343
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I see...but it can be left to speculations forever. Anyway, it's too early, we need to see Ep3 first. If there's no mention of Sifo-Dyas in it, I'll be right but if there is, I'll be wrong.


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Old 11-20-2004, 12:22 PM   #344
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GL will have more important things than to go back to the dark depths that is the gap between Ep's 1 and 2.

Grevious is of course a somebody it was him solely that got the Confederacy to Courscant so he's obviously a somebody and if he makes sport of killing jedi he's hardly a weak fighter indeed if Yoda,Obi wan or Anakin slice through him then it validates him as a formidable fighter since they are some of the best.

Vostok some people are already in the Grevious is Grevious camp joining my camp after the film is released will be pointless since there won't really be much further debate as to who he is since it'll obviously have been answered.


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Old 11-23-2004, 01:50 AM   #345
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Anyway back to discussing how awesome that Trailer was that Space battle looks Epic I can't wait for it.


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Old 11-23-2004, 08:30 AM   #346
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If I were Lucas (and I'm not because my name isn't Lucas) I would simply have Grievous be Grievous because its a better story for the character. Leave Maul as being dead because it's a better story. And tell us nothing about Sifo boy because its a better story. the less we know about these characters the better it makes the story. The more we know about them through the movies, the more it cheapens the movies. Save the details for the EU crowd and their books. That's what I'd do. Leaving the details up the the movie goers imagination is more artistic and makes for a better movie.

I hope Grievous is just Grievous.


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Old 11-23-2004, 12:25 PM   #347
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Eaxtcly.

He already left the task of fleshing out Grevious' history to the EU anyway propably with the intent to leave it out of the Movies.

Welcome to the Camp of the sane and the Truists.


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Old 11-23-2004, 01:39 PM   #348
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Viceroy, have you any idea what "truism" actually means?

(That was a rhetorical question, btw)
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Old 11-24-2004, 12:46 AM   #349
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Since that question doesn't require an answer it won't get one.

I'm looking forward to seeing some of the Starships in ROTS especially this "Tri-Droid Fighter" I saw something that could be it but it looked more like a Minture TF Battleship core with wings.


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Old 11-24-2004, 02:13 AM   #350
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Yea it does look like a mini TF core fighter also a new Advanced Jedi fighter


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Old 11-24-2004, 06:59 AM   #351
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I don't like the new Jedi Starfighter it doesn't seem to fit in with the Aesthetics apart from the Tie like cockpit.


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Old 11-24-2004, 04:51 PM   #352
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I like the new designs the old one had many flaws and was more like a transport than a fighter.


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Old 11-24-2004, 11:28 PM   #353
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I still think from the Looks of things that the New Jedi Starfighter doesn't seem to fit in with the design Aesthetics at all.

The old one was cool and sleek.


I AM the prophet of the truth the protector of Star Wars Truism

Star Wars Truism by it's very nature is eternal and will outlive Star Wars Purism

Everything I say is a lie for the Truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it

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Old 11-25-2004, 11:44 AM   #354
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I don't think Grievous will have much to do with the plot. I see him as more as a neat character that's just there for no particular reason.


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Old 11-25-2004, 12:08 PM   #355
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Grevious will have something to do with the plot an important role but since GL is devoting most of the film to bridging PT and OT we naturally can't see more action which is a great shame.

General Grevious is the Militray Leader of the confederacy it is he who directed the assault against Duro which gave the Confederacy a foothold in the Core from which they most likely staged their Assault on Coruscant.


I AM the prophet of the truth the protector of Star Wars Truism

Star Wars Truism by it's very nature is eternal and will outlive Star Wars Purism

Everything I say is a lie for the Truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it

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Old 11-27-2004, 12:58 PM   #356
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Grievous won't have much of a role in the plot, but he is going to have a big part in the opening action scenes. He will help to have a small part in Anakin's foreshadowing of what he will become in his transformation into Darth Vader. So he has a small role, though it is not great, it is a contribution.


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Old 11-27-2004, 01:44 PM   #357
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Grevious will Have A Huge role in terms of protraying how the war went up until EP.III but your right since the entire film will revolve around.

Palpatine>Emporer

and

Anakin Skywalker>Darth Vader

I personally would rather they have rejigged the numbers a little and put in an episode where the Clone wars is fought out in it;s entirety.


I AM the prophet of the truth the protector of Star Wars Truism

Star Wars Truism by it's very nature is eternal and will outlive Star Wars Purism

Everything I say is a lie for the Truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it

Do you have any last words?

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Old 11-27-2004, 03:17 PM   #358
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Shame we will only get to see his end and not his wrath.


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Old 11-27-2004, 03:37 PM   #359
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Yeah. Obi-wan shoots him in the head, so I hear.


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Old 11-27-2004, 03:44 PM   #360
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I'm not sure if he gets shot in the head but we do see a scene on Naboo where his mask is off and his face is dribbling Bodily Fluids.


I AM the prophet of the truth the protector of Star Wars Truism

Star Wars Truism by it's very nature is eternal and will outlive Star Wars Purism

Everything I say is a lie for the Truth is always greater than the words we use to describe it

Do you have any last words?

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