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Old 10-06-2004, 05:38 AM   #1
Crusaderous
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Cheating?

So, are people cheating online (PC) now? I had not heard of people figured out how to cheat yet and was just curious.

Thanks
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Old 10-06-2004, 05:44 AM   #2
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They're not cheating right now, stay calm. Even in other popular games real haxors and cheaters are such a small percentage, only -10% of those accused have good chances of really being one.


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Old 10-06-2004, 09:18 AM   #3
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There was some guy on a forum that found a program that let you have infinite ticker points for single player. Which is pretty cool so the battles never end.

I dont know why people have to cheat online though. THeres no point.


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Old 10-06-2004, 10:40 AM   #4
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Now that cheat wouldn't be so bad, the battles never last more than 15 minutes, and usually last 5. At least for me, maybeI'm just too good.


Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:43 AM   #5
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Once the cheaters come along the game could die unless something like Punkbuster is used
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Old 10-06-2004, 11:44 AM   #6
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I think soem people think, why not do it once? Just to try. They just forget that one person per game has to come whit such an idea to ruin it for everybody.




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Old 10-06-2004, 12:57 PM   #7
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I know of some exploits that were found in the game that are being used by some. But no actual cheating (as in hacks) that I have heard of.
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Old 10-08-2004, 02:13 PM   #8
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duNNo....don't think so

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Old 10-08-2004, 05:12 PM   #9
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Don't have a heart attack. As we all know, in online multiplayer games there is a rather large faction of shall we say "sore losers." These people will whine about anything. They will blame the game, their ping, your ping, your computer, etc. in short everything save their own lack of skill for their loss.

This includes accusing others of cheating.

So do us a favor and DO NOT ACCUSE SOMEONE OF CHEATING. Rather, learn the game, all of it, every nook and cranny. For all you know what you think is a cheat is really just a feature you don't know about or haven't mastered. Likewise lag can do strange things (newcomers to online gaming often learn this the hard way). There are also bugs in all games.

Accusations of cheating are already out there, but actual cheating? Haven't seen it, so until I do, I won't assume it's happening.

Sides, if they are releasing patches, any exploits they find can also be patched. So send Pandemic/LucasArts your bug reports!


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Old 10-08-2004, 07:59 PM   #10
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I bet they cut of there bug report thing becuase so many people telling them about it. Just like I bet Windows turned off there
"report this error to microsoft windows xp"
thing. Wander how many morons do that everytime lol. (all the posisible funny thoughts of people doing that and windows being pissed)


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Old 10-08-2004, 11:21 PM   #11
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I don't care if there are cheats in SP, as long as they come with it in MP. In academy the server had to put cheats on, I could live with it (and nice cheats)


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Old 10-08-2004, 11:59 PM   #12
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Well I guess its a good thing that the lasers arnt instant hit because we wont have to worry about aim bots that much. Most cheaters seem to make it obvious they are using cheats though so there is nothing a good old vote kick cant do.


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Old 10-09-2004, 12:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by DogGy
I don't care if there are cheats in SP, as long as they come with it in MP. In academy the server had to put cheats on, I could live with it (and nice cheats)
That's something else. Those are cheat commands made by raven etc. normally for SP but if the admin put it on you could use em in MP (and yeah, you'd see cheatsa re enabled when you loaded the map) and spawn rancors etc to ride on. That was fun.

Anyways, hold your horses. Making trainers for SP is easy. This does not apply for MP


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Old 10-09-2004, 12:34 AM   #14
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Though I dont have this for PC I do have other games I play online. I hope they use anti-cheat systems in the PC online version or some people will be complaining.


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Old 10-09-2004, 02:10 AM   #15
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Oh you mean really codes for in a console?


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Old 10-09-2004, 11:16 AM   #16
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Nobody has a problem with SP cheats, it's the online stuff that leads to all this madness (note: no evidence yet of any cheats in SWBF PC, so everybody relax!).

This whole thing is silly.

First off, the thread started asked if people were cheating. He had to ASK, in other words, there is no evidence people are cheating online.

Is there a console? I don't know of one. Is there mod making? I don't know of any.

So how would they be cheating?

The stupid thing is, people WANT to accuse others of cheating because they are paranoid or it gives them a sense of satisfaction that they didn't REALLY LOSE but the person must have been cheating or exploiting something.

Even if Punkbuster were used in this game (which it probably won't be due to the strict protectiveness over the Star Wars liscense that LA has and the added cost of implementing it) it won't stop the accusations.

Just imagine, Punkbuster is used. Somebody accuses another of cheating. The accused says "but we're using PB, so I can't be cheating." Accuser: somehow you hacked past it!

See? The accusations will continue, because people are so paranoid and/or sore losers. It's the mentality that needs to change. It's a witch hunt basically.

People assume that cheats are being used and they have big egos. So if something doesn't go their way they are quick to accuse somebody of cheating. That is what ruins games... moreso than any "real" cheating that can exist in a game. It's just an oh-so-convenient excuse for these guys to avoid having to admit you lost.

And something like Punkbuster would have to be maintained as well, and continually updated to combat new cheats and exploits. Plus there's the issue that I've read about of it increasing lag. So it wouldn't be a magic bullet either. And if it were implemented this would only mean that non PB servers would be shunned, forcing everyone to use it, because people would start to (wrongly) assume that if you weren't running PB you MUST have something to hide.


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Old 10-09-2004, 01:29 PM   #17
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Cheats in online games happen. To believe that they haven't happened or won't happen eventually in Battlefront is very ignorant.

I'm glad people say "cheater!" in games because that means I'm not the only one looking out for cheaters. If the person being accused is not cheating, why should they care? If they are cheating maybe they'll leave the server.

To claim that the real problem is the accuser is lame. The problem is that there are people who like to make hacks and who like to cheat. One cheater in one game ruins the game in my opinion, so the problem of cheating should be brought up as it has been in this thread.

The fact that an administrator in this forum is brushing off the fact that cheating is possible in this game is scary to me. Does that mean there are no plans to confront this problem if and when it starts to ruin the gameplay experience?

If this is the case, I'm done with this game. How ignorant to believe that no one will hack this game. I'll stick to Battlefield Vietnam and other games who use punkbuster because they are fully aware of the prevalence of cheating in online games. As of right now there have been over 280 bans in Battlefield Vietnam by punkbuster. Not to mention all of those who don't get caught.

If you do a little research you'll find communities dedicated to making hacks for online games. What can I say, these people must just have a "cheating gene" like many politicians do.

Regardless it is a fact that cheating happens in online games and the cheaters are the ones who ruin games, NOT THE "WHINERS" as you call them.

It is not whining if you believe you see unfair play. And there is no reason, NO REASON to keep quiet if you believe you see someone cheating.
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Old 10-09-2004, 06:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hallowicious
Cheats in online games happen. To believe that they haven't happened or won't happen eventually in Battlefront is very ignorant.
It's one thing to say it's possible. It's quite another to assume that it is happening without evidence. This just fuels paranoia among people who cry "cheater" whenever things don't go their way.

Quote:
I'm glad people say "cheater!" in games because that means I'm not the only one looking out for cheaters. If the person being accused is not cheating, why should they care? If they are cheating maybe they'll leave the server.
Because in most of these games we have things called "Admins" who take these accusations seriously (or who make the accusations). These folks have the power to kick and ban. Likewise in games that have vote-kicks, if a "cheat accuser" can get people to go along with what he says, innocent people can be disconnected from games.

It's all well and good to say it doesn't matter until it happens to you. I've been unfairly accused of cheating and kicked or banned for it in numerous games over the years. So I think it's important to educate people that just because cheating might be possible doesn't mean that we should assume it's being done, to fuel an atmosphere of paranoia where accusers are always taken seriously.

Me, I will demand a person prove it if they accuse me, but that isn't enough. All they need to do is tell a credulous admin or couple of people to start a vote kick and that's it. Fun ruined.

Quote:
To claim that the real problem is the accuser is lame.
Since the number of accusers outweighs the number of cheaters in virtually every game I've ever played, I'd say its a fair assumption.

Is there something you're not telling us? Have you witnessed cheating in SWBF? Do you have proof that cheating is happening? By all means bring it forth and prove me wrong.

Quote:
The problem is that there are people who like to make hacks and who like to cheat. One cheater in one game ruins the game in my opinion, so the problem of cheating should be brought up as it has been in this thread.
Not necessarily. Granted, I hate online cheating (or "hacking" or whatever you wish to call it) as much as the next guy, but one guy cheating doesn't ruin the entire game. There are hundreds of servers out there, if the cheater is in one server, and you're not, then you have no problem.

As of now the trouble is there are no admin functions in the game, so if a hypothetical cheat existed and a hypothetical cheater was using it in your game, you couldn't do anything about it except ask him to leave, and if he didn't want to, you couldn't do anything about it except make the server private (and give the passworde outside the game to the other players with X-fire or something).

Quote:
The fact that an administrator in this forum is brushing off the fact that cheating is possible in this game is scary to me.
The burden of proof is on the accusers to show that cheating is happening. Until that happens, why should we assume that people are cheating?
I never said it was impossible, only that I don't see evidence of it happening and I KNOW how prevelant false accusations of cheating are in online games in general and how those accusations can ruin games, doing as much if not more damage than actual cheating.

Have you ever being accused of cheating? I have, and it really ruins things when people refuse to accept that you won, call you a liar, and get you removed from a game. Sure, sometimes it feels good that you kicked so much butt that they had no choice but to accuse you of being a cheater, but that's a consolation in a bad situation, not something a person should have to deal with.

Quote:
Does that mean there are no plans to confront this problem if and when it starts to ruin the gameplay experience?
If you discover some cheats, send this information to Pandemic so they can fix it. But if there are no cheats, what is there for them to fix?

I have noted that attitude of some that unless there is Punkbuster support for a game, they refuse to play it, because they assume that cheating must be going on and that the game isn't "safe." But people must realize that Punkbuster isn't perfect, and it will do nothing to stop accusations of cheating, which are not necessarily based on evidence, but rather paranoia, and sore loser-ship (like calling somebody a "n00b" as an insult...).

The notion that non-cheaters are safe from accuastions is flawed, as is the notion that non-cheaters have nothing to fear from accusations (as I hope I've illustrated).

Quote:
If this is the case, I'm done with this game. How ignorant to believe that no one will hack this game.
It doesn't matter what I believe about it. It's what Pandemic believes. Do you think I'm in charge of that company and make decisions for them? Guess what.. I don't. Thank God! You're thinking right? ; ) Go ahead, I can take it.

Anyway, if Pandemic discovers that people are cheating and they issue a fix for it, more power to 'em, that's what I expect 'em to do. But if there's nothing to fix, well...?

If you find a cheat in the game, send the info to 'em so they can fix it. I'll do the same. I have no desire to see the game "go down because of cheats."

Quote:
I'll stick to Battlefield Vietnam and other games who use punkbuster because they are fully aware of the prevalence of cheating in online games.
I've played plenty of games with no Punkbuster support and I didn't witness cheating. In fact, across my online career about the only cheating I've ever seen was in the JK/MotS community, for about a year (out of the 3 1/2 years I played it).

See what I mean? This is the attitude that Punkbuster supports means no cheating, but no Punkbuster support means cheating is assumed. Go ahead, don't play this game then. It's your choice.

Quote:
As of right now there have been over 280 bans in Battlefield Vietnam by punkbuster. Not to mention all of those who don't get caught.
This game has no connection to BFV. Every game is different. Right there you admitted that PB isn't perfect, since some of those cheaters are not getting caught. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't PB need to be updated? Because if that's true, then it's an ongoing battle just like exploit fixes.

I think of it like virus scanners. They are no good unless they are continually updated because new viruses keep coming out.

Granted, there may be only so many exploits in a game's code, but it all depends on the game. If there are exploits and nobody exploits them, what reason does Pandemic have to spend time and money to fix them?

Quote:
If you do a little research you'll find communities dedicated to making hacks for online games. What can I say, these people must just have a "cheating gene" like many politicians do.
I know they exist, I've dealt with them in the past. I agree, they're pretty sad folks. But that doesn't change the fact that unless you have evidence of SWBF cheating, you can't assume that it's happening, can you?

Or you're saying you can, simply because people are dishonest by nature. Well in that case, send Pandemic an email and demand they add Punkbuster support to SWBF without delay. Good luck.


Quote:
Regardless it is a fact that cheating happens in online games and the cheaters are the ones who ruin games, NOT THE "WHINERS" as you call them.
Whoa there... whiners don't ruin games? I'm sure you'll find plenty of folks on these very forums who will disagree with that statement. ; ) Don't take my word for it!

Quote:
It is not whining if you believe you see unfair play.
True, but as you and I both know people don't just whine when they see unfair play. And one man's "unfair play" is another man's "part of the game."

I am fresh from the JA/JK2 community, and I put up with 2 years of whining from people and accusations of cheating (or as many called it back in then "laming"). Yet we ran across very few cheaters (I never did, I only heard rumors). The developers of the game admitted that even if cheats were created they would have very little use, due to the very nature of the game itself... that is almost no hit-scan weapons, Force Powers that do what common FPS cheats would do (like seeing through walls or moving very fast, etc). Cheating in these games simply wouldn't have made much of a difference.

It's the fear of cheaters that fuels the whining, or the ability to blame your problems on cheaters, that does a lot more damage than the tiny number of cheaters that may exist.

Now if tomorrow I'm proven wrong by massive numbers of people complaining about cheaters in SWBF, you'll have my apology here in writing. But until then, assuming the game is by default ruined (because there must be cheaters out there ruining it as we speak) is just silly.


Quote:
And there is no reason, NO REASON to keep quiet if you believe you see someone cheating.
Agreed. But did you ever hear the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

That's my point. For every true case of cheating in a game you have maybe 100 cases of false accusations (just a wild guess). Is it worth ruining the exprience for those 100 people to catch that one suspected cheater? Maybe, maybe not, you decide.

I agree, if you see somebody cheating, call them on it. However, that implies that person is educated enough to actually KNOW a cheat when he sees it.

So you better be SURE when you accuse somebody, or you'll be dragging the community down with you. Just the sort of thing that (real) cheaters want to happen...


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Old 10-09-2004, 06:26 PM   #19
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And just to clarify something, I am NOT saying that the accuser is the problem. Rather the FALSE ACCUSER is a problem.

And since it seems like there's a lot of false accusers out there (I've met quite a few of them over the course of my multi-year career as an online game player and server host). The false accusers far outnumbered the actual cheaters.

I'm not saying cheaters can't or don't exist, rather that we should be CAREFUL who we accuse, and not ASSUME that someone is cheating just because they are being accused.

The burden of proof is on the accuser to show that cheating is occuring, not for the accused to prove their innocene.

Maybe I'm just biased because I was raised with the ideal that a person is "Innocent until proven guilty" (not the other way around) and I know this isn't always the case in courts around the world (but in the US where I was born and raised, it is the law). Maybe I'm too logical, whatever.

I'm not saying don't try to stop cheating, but rather use common sense, don't assume guilt, and don't assume it's happening without evidence. If you find evidence, turn it over to the people who can actually make a difference, the developers & publishers of the game.


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Old 10-09-2004, 06:42 PM   #20
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^^ Agreed. Nine times out of ten, someone who has just been owning hard on a public server will be accused of cheating by some n00b. Cases like this happen WAY more often than people actually cheating. And yes, people DO care if you accuse them of cheating and they aren't; how would you like it if you put in your time to get good at something, and when you started being able to beat people you were dismissed as a cheat by someone who probably couldn't tell a real cheater from a hole in the ground?
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Old 10-11-2004, 08:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by subs0nic
how would you like it if you put in your time to get good at something, and when you started being able to beat people you were dismissed as a cheat by someone who probably couldn't tell a real cheater from a hole in the ground?
Heh, that's happened to me in JA...


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Old 10-11-2004, 08:11 AM   #22
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I got accused of cheating a lot in my CS days. I always took it as a compliment, until I got kicked/banned from a server. Running punkbuster did lessen the accusations, but they were still there. Some people's combination of pride and paranoia do not allow them to lose gracefully.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:29 PM   #23
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NOOOOOOOOO, I saw someone up top say that we should get punkbuster for this game, DO NOT get punkbuster for this game, PB bans people for having anything changed in your files, I got banned for changing my name through the ini files in raven shield, i told them what happened, They admitted it was their fault, But they said there was nothing they could do about it now, So i was just screwed
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Old 10-11-2004, 03:17 PM   #24
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I hate cheaters with a dying passion. They cheat because they suck, mostly unless they're just *******s who get pleasure out of it. But if you suck you shouldn't cheat you should just get better.

I also hate false accusers with a dying passion. This happened to me alot on socom 1, i would have an awesome game and the guys on the other team would accuse me of "auto-aim" or some other lame excuse. Unless you have real proof like you saw him running through walls or something you shouldn't accuse someone.

Cheating i believe is a big problem that can never be stopped. It's kind of like the terrorism of video gaming


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