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Old 10-09-2004, 12:33 PM   #1
Rends
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Are JetTroops/Dark Troops Uber?

Guys let´s discuss seriosly if the Clon Jettroop and the Dark troopers are uber.
Since the last few days i noticed that in 9 of 10 matches always the jetpack side win. 3-5 of the jettroops are enough to take most spawnpoints in a very short time.
On maps like Rhen Var harbour(?) and Kamino thoose troops will win ever.
Well i won´t say decrease the power of that kind of soldiers but in the next patch they should be limited in overall number who can spawn at the same time. Well bf42 has such feature so why shouldn´t have our SWBF too.

Just my 2 cents,
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:35 PM   #2
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yes, They are abit too imba, but they also have bad sides, like their weapons.

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Old 10-09-2004, 12:44 PM   #3
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I can easily kill jet troopers with SBD or the pilot. They're not overempowered. Just evade their shots and hit em, that is all.

As for dark trooper, weapon is weak if it aint close range, and if you roll etc you make it hard for em. Never had a problem with darktroopers before


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Old 10-09-2004, 12:47 PM   #4
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Dark Troopers can catch a few people by surprise, but it is very difficult for one to take a command post. Their rate of fire is just too low. Dark Troopers can be very useful in areas with lots of cover, but alone and in the open, they are sitting ducks.

Jet Troopers are powerful, though. The biggest reason is the command pistol, which is almost as good as the infantry blaster rifle. Unlike the other support pistols in the game, this one can rack up a few kills. Add this to the Jet Trooper's speed, and of course his missles, and he is one of the best units in the game.

I say one of the best because I think the Super Battle Droid helps keep the CIS in the game. Their wrist rockets and increased health make them very deadly.

I think the Jet Trooper was given the command pistol late in development to help make him more useful, and to help balance the Republic against the CIS. It might be overkill, but not too many people are using the Jet Trooper to its full advantage yet.

When massive armies of Jet Troopers start rushing your CPs in a month or so, then we might need a patch.
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:52 PM   #5
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Well i don´t mean their weapons i mean their capability to take neutral and enemy spawnpoints in a very short time!
I saw 2-3 jet players taking the whole map short after gamestart.

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Old 10-09-2004, 12:56 PM   #6
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That just means the other team sucks.
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:58 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by sircursealot
That just means the other team sucks.
My point exactly.

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Old 10-09-2004, 01:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by sircursealot
That just means the other team sucks.
Ok that´s true sometimes but the jetguys can reach the neutral points way faster than all other units.

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Old 10-09-2004, 01:19 PM   #9
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That's the point of the unit.
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Old 10-09-2004, 01:24 PM   #10
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Maybe they should set up class selection like they have it in america's army. For those of you who don't know that means that you would have a set number of slots in each team for specialty fighters like snipers and such, and a lot of slot for normal troopers.That means in a ten man team you might only have one or two jet troopers.


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Old 10-09-2004, 01:26 PM   #11
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Sircur,
but it becomes very booring.
Today i played 5 missions with about 5/5 players.
I guess the longest lasted 3 mins and all was won by the Darktroopers.
Well after the 5th mission i leaved because it was simple to booring.

Jedi,
yes that´s the same function you have in bf42. I would like to have it in SWBF too.

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Old 10-09-2004, 03:09 PM   #12
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The jetpack units are in no way "uber." The Dark Trooper completely sucks. His blaster has a very slow rate of fire, small clip, extremely too short-range, and can only make two jumps in maybe fifteen seconds.

The Jet Trooper is decent, but not any better than any other unit. The jetpack is useful for speedy movement, but not gaining height, and his EMP launcher is good against Droidekas. The EMP launcher isn't good against other CIS units, since the EMP is so slow-moving and easy to see, with very little splash damage if any. Also has to reload every two shots, and runs out of ammo quickly. The commando pistol is really good in short bursts, but it's very easy to drain the ammo.
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:16 PM   #13
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I was going to say something but then TK-8258 said exactly what I was thinking.


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Old 10-09-2004, 03:34 PM   #14
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I totally agree with Rends.

I don't think these two kind of jet troopers are really "uber"... (even if I find an EMP launchers/grenade a bit to efficient agains droids...)

But lets face it... in MP, when people don't know each other, jet troopers take all the command post really fast, and you can't really ask for some sort of coordination when everyone plays for his own (most of the time).

Moreover, its a real pain to have to check every single roof in urban maps for any jet troopers. Your team struggles to make its path through all foes, then you see your primary command post is already taken, you fall back, you loose all you have fought for...

You'll say, some must defend, and some must attack, but in "clanless MP" people don't really mind on defending. I try often to go Rocket Launcher class in order to place some mines... it works, but it ain't much fun... plus clone troopers kill me AND my mines with their launcher.

Lets say you're in a good team. Well, the few seconds a jet trooper neutralizes a Command Post, would be enough to win at the end like : 10 - 0

Would be interesting to see the Empire vs Republic Clone army...
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Old 10-09-2004, 04:53 PM   #15
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The Darktrooper, gimme a break, he's not that powerful. In fact he's quite weak, the only benefit he has is his Jetpack, which is very weak, basically just a glorified Jump.

The Jetpack Clonetrooper on the other hand has a much more useful gadget for covering great distances. HOWEVER, notice how slowly he moves while he's jetting around. It's like Quake3 with people bouncing on the Jump pads, he's a sitting duck!

I've tried Jetting around in the middle of a firefight and I ALWAYS get gunned down in short order. Maybe with lag it would be hard to hit 'em though, but then they are going to have a hard time hitting you as well.

As to getting from one place to another, yes, Clone Troopers are elite (though taking an airship is much safer for the reason I mentioned above), but remember that the CIS has the Droideka, which moves quite fast while rolling. It too is a sitting duck while rolling though.

The Darktrooper's equivalent is the Wookie smuggler. While he might seem overmatched, his Bowcastor fully charged seems a lot more powerful than the "shotgun" cannon that the DT has. Plus he can fire it rapidly, while the DT is stuck with a slower rate of fire for his gun. The Time Bombs of course aren't much use in an infantry battle, more for sabotage of vehicles or structures (or spawn camping, lol).


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Old 10-09-2004, 04:57 PM   #16
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Kurgan spelled Wookiee wrong!
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Old 10-09-2004, 04:59 PM   #17
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Kurgan is n00b?

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Old 10-09-2004, 05:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pho3nix
Kurgan is n00b?
Yes, an Administrator with 12294 posts is a n00b.
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Old 10-09-2004, 05:16 PM   #19
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A Droid: I see what you're saying but the fact that a team may not work together isn't the game's fault, is it?

That's why so many online games have "Deathmatch" modes, because having a good team dynamic isn't a given in public games.

Still, this is a trial by fire. Either people will suck at the game and always lose since they don't work together, or they will be force to learn how to cooperate. You don't need to form a clan to have a good team, but it certainly helps. I do my part in a game and if people don't help, well, that's not something I can control. Besides, winning all the time (to those people who claim they play "for fun") simply isn't a realistic attitude to have for any game or sport. Even the best, lose.

Quote:
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Would be interesting to see the Empire vs Republic Clone army... [/B]
I agree, that would be cool. The problem with it is that the skins would be hard to distinguish in battle, since they are both primarily white. Some kind of distinctions would have to be made to get it to work (I'd suggest a big floating "team beacon" icon over the heads of all teammates as is a feature in many FPS games).


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Old 10-09-2004, 05:21 PM   #20
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It'd be strange with Republic vs. Imperials, because the Clones are equipped to fight droids, with the EMP grenades and launchers, DN bolt caster, etc.
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Old 10-09-2004, 05:33 PM   #21
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but still, the emp grenades do damage humans too. belive me ive done it many, many times. many, many times many, many times

Plus, it would be fun to not know wheather youre shooting friend or foe...
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Old 10-09-2004, 10:08 PM   #22
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The jetpack troopers arent uber. They are easy to evade and easy to kill.


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Old 10-09-2004, 10:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkey joe
but still, the emp grenades do damage humans too. belive me ive done it many, many times. many, many times many, many times

Plus, it would be fun to not know wheather youre shooting friend or foe...
Not after the first dozen or so kills... hence why you'd need the team beacons.

Otherwise it means recoloring the skins and then you lose the "look" of the nice shiny white Stormies and Clonies. : (


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Old 10-09-2004, 10:46 PM   #24
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Hehe... I can imagine the confusoin of the Empire fighting the Clones.

A stormtrooper shoots a guy, then switches helmets and walks into the other guys' command post.
Stormtrooper--"Hey guys! It's me, a clone just like you. Don't worry, I got it here, you guys go capture some other place."
Clone--"Wait! You don't have a wierd accent! You're a spy! Quick, everyone, shoot the guy in the clone helmet! ...wait a second--"
All the other clones turn around and shoot eachother, everyone dies.

Darktrooper jumps from the sky, captures CP, jumps away.


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Old 10-09-2004, 11:12 PM   #25
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didn't the republic turn into the emipre in the third movie so what happened to the clones? Could some of them be stormtroopers? Huh?
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Old 10-09-2004, 11:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Alegis
As for dark trooper, weapon is weak if it aint close range, and if you roll etc you make it hard for em. Never had a problem with darktroopers before
I think that the cannon of the dark trooper shoots more straight then the one of the rebel pilot


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Old 10-10-2004, 01:35 AM   #27
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Yes. But i consider health/ammo packs and fusioncutter more useful than a jetpack that takes ages to load


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Old 10-10-2004, 01:48 AM   #28
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I only like using these jet pack dudes on certain maps like Mos Eisley where jumping over a building can work to your advantage. I agree with the afformentioned posts that these jetpack whores have really lousy weapons, slow rate of fire, runs out of ammo quickly, and your a sitting duck once you land.
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Old 10-10-2004, 03:11 AM   #29
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I think the clone jettrooper is overpowered. First off, his jetpack makes him the fastest moving unit in the game. Perhaps he and the droideka make a good match in moving, but the droideka has obstacles to deal with.

As a reaction to
Quote:
The Jet Trooper is decent, but not any better than any other unit. The jetpack is useful for speedy movement, but not gaining height, and his EMP launcher is good against Droidekas. The EMP launcher isn't good against other CIS units, since the EMP is so slow-moving and easy to see, with very little splash damage if any. Also has to reload every two shots, and runs out of ammo quickly. The commando pistol is really good in short bursts, but it's very easy to drain the ammo.
have you ever tried looking up while pressing forward and flying? You go up! In fact, the clone jettrooper is the unit in the game that can get to the highest altitudes, it easily beats the darktrooper in that aspect.

Then about his gun. For the console versions, the gun might not be that effective. But for PC, I really don't understand how people can say the gun is useless! I does have a decent splash damage and a direct hit is a one shot kill (accept droideka's). The bullets are not that slow at all. If fired from a not-to-far distance, I'd like to see you evade it (With 'you' I mean everyone in general).

Finally, let's talk about certain exploits the jettroopers can make use of. For example on Mos Eisly, there is a certain control point that only allows access through a small portal (a bit north-north-east of the map, I believe). The jettroopers can just fly up, shoot over the walls, throw a few grenades in and go back down before the enemy even knows what hit em. And dispite with what ppl may say about shooting them out of the air, I experience the same time everytime in my team. All of the units spawning there get pwned big time. This is just one example, and I'm sure you can understand that a lot more can be thought of.

It must be obvious I plea for bringing down the effectiveness of the clone jettrooper's gun. Perhaps making him reload his weapon after each shot. This brings down the use of the jettroopers figthing capabilities for a very good deal, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Just consider him a unit with another task, which would obviously be the effective capturing of control points. This would also balance out the fight against CIS, which is by many seen as the least effective faction. Another idea might be reducing the splash damage to zero. When ppl are shooting the jettrooper who is in the air, you cannot speak of splash damage, since it's either a miss or a hit. Why not let the jettrooper have the same handicap? Indeed, the jettrooper has to reload every 2 shots, but then again, a hit is a direct kill, remember?


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Old 10-10-2004, 05:57 AM   #30
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I LOVE the Darktrooper. I always get close to my enemies and spray them all in the face with my big long gun.

Though the Jettrooper bothers me... no splash damage at all and I even have to reload. I wish he could shoot a bit faster too
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:40 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkey joe
didn't the republic turn into the emipre in the third movie so what happened to the clones? Could some of them be stormtroopers? Huh?
Most die of old age (since their growth is increased so much), and a few remnants were in the early Stormtrooper ranks (which means by A New Hope they're all dead).

I think.

Why didn't the Empire just clone Boba Fett for their Stormtroopers?
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Old 10-10-2004, 09:45 AM   #32
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There's a few theories about that but we won't know for sure until ROTS comes out (or at least by the it comes out on DVD and Lucas explains any loose ends on the director's commentary).

I am staying away from Episode III spoilers as much as possible, so this is purely speculation by me (and some background material I remember from the EU), bear with...


The modern Stormtroopers are, according to Lucas, descended from the Jango Fett Clones.


This could be interpreted a few different ways. One is that they are the physical descendents (ie: the Clones had kids in the usual way and these kids grew up and became Stormtroopers). They were yet more Jango clones, produced from the same genetic "stock" that was used to create the others (if the stock doesn't need to be replenished that is, since Jango is dead).

Since Boba Fett is a clone of Jango, his stock would be identical, so they could use that as well.

The idoicy of dubbing over Boba's voice to get Jango's accent nonwithstanding, they could literally be Fett clones still.

The EU seems to assume that the Stormtroopers are a mixture of brainwashed recruites and conscripts both in the OT and after. Characters are "shocked" to see that clones are being used by Grand Admiral Thrawn. Cloning is seen as a "banned" and "lost" technology. Clones are made in Spaarti Cylinders such as those hidden under Mt. Tantis or Kurek or something (used by Palpatine to make new bodies for himself because the Dark Side makes his body age rapidly and fall apart so he transfers his "soul" into new bodies so he can live forever... I know it's weird, but it's all there in the EU). The thing about these EU clones is that they age to adulthood in a very short time (like 1-3 years) and they get a "flash brain imprint" of the knowledge and memories of anyone they want. So no training required. But the thing is the rapid aging process somehow reacts with the Force and so they get "clone madness."

To stop the "clone madness" they come up with a way to grow clones a bit slower with a Ysalamari (a creature that "pushes back the Force" as a natural defense mechanism to survive from predatory Vornskrs that hunt it with the Force) to prevent the Force from making the clone go mad from growing too fast.

But either way Jedi can "sense" Clones through the Force as having a "strangeness" to them because of the lack of the Force growing up or confused minds.


Anyway, to make a long story short, Lucas took that established "history" from the EU and threw it into chaos by making the Stormtroopers all clones and the Kaminoeans making 10 year clones from Jango Fett. Needless to say the EU authors have rushed to retcon the situation, including saying that the Spaarti technique was a later development or one that was stolen by the Mandalorians or the CIS and used at the end of the Clone Wars. Or that the Cloning was a secret from everyone except maybe a few in the Senate, the Jedi, and Palpatine's inner circle.

The current theory is that (based on the fact that Stormtroopers in the OT have different heights and voices and not like the actor who plays Jango and the AOTC Clones, and because Lucas had the opportunity to "fix" this in the new DVD's and didn't...) the current Stormtroopers (OT and beyond) are either a mixture of Clones (from Jango, Boba, or anybody else they wanted) and brainwashed recruites and conscripts OR they are all Clones just not all of one person, but a variety of "templates."

Still, Lucas's statements seem to indicate that they are somehow descended from Jango Fett's clones. So we'll see if it's explained in Revenge of the Sith.


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Old 10-10-2004, 11:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by SkankinShine

I say one of the best because I think the Super Battle Droid helps keep the CIS in the game. Their wrist rockets and increased health make them very deadly.
dude you forgot another deadly addition to the Super Battle Droid.... the Tri Shot... i mean common close range with that 2 shots the dude is down. I'd even go as far as to say that his pistol is best one out there... Use his regular wrist gun like any other assault rifle, and then the the enemy gets in close and personal, switch up to the pistol and finish him in 1 shot!
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:01 PM   #34
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/\ yeah, you're right, I forgot about that...This is why I don't understand people who say the CIS is the weakest faction.

I think the Imperials are the weakest. Each faction is identical except:

1. Each faction's unique unit
2. CIS has enhanced infantry in S.B.Droid
3. Map advantages, like the presence of an AT-AT.

As far as the special units, I personally rank them:

1. Jet Trooper
2. Droideka
3. Wookiee
4. Dark Trooper

As far as AT-AT's, most people now can bring them down in a hurry with tow cables. Republic walkers are much stronger in this respect.
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:26 PM   #35
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You forget that the Empire on Rhen Var doesn't have to face to face snowspeeders.

I would rank them differently:

1-Clone Jetpack trooper
2-Droideka
3-Dark Trooper
4-Wookiee

Seriously, the Wookiee, although having a strong weapon, has a pretty low rate of fire and takes 3 head/upper torso shots to take down compared to the Dark Trooper's 2(if you're close enough) and the timebombs are totally useless. The only place where they're useful is Endor(4 timebombs to destroy the Shield Generator).

As for Clone Jetpack troopers, no they're not overpowered. You can easily dodge their shots and when they're in the air, they're pretty slow moving. Up close there's no way you can miss them.

By the way, any pistol can give you good kills. You just have to learn how to use them.


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Old 10-10-2004, 02:28 PM   #36
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In a patch or mod they should make a class ranking system....

First you start out as a regular assault trooper, then you need a certain amount of kills to get to the next class and so on.
Then people wouldn't be a Jet trooper once a match starts and get all of the command posts in 2 mins. and everyone starts cussing at each other then it gets ugly...

So a class ranking system would be cool if someone mad one
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Old 10-10-2004, 02:37 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by MarcusLeCoy
In a patch or mod they should make a class ranking system....

First you start out as a regular assault trooper, then you need a certain amount of kills to get to the next class and so on.
Then people wouldn't be a Jet trooper once a match starts and get all of the command posts in 2 mins. and everyone starts cussing at each other then it gets ugly...

So a class ranking system would be cool if someone mad one
That sounds alright but some people would complain that they cant get their favourite class in the beginning.


Sig encountering technical difficulties...
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Old 10-10-2004, 05:05 PM   #38
reggiefl
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Forgive my n00bness, but how does one activate the jetpacks?
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Old 10-10-2004, 05:08 PM   #39
Darth Groovy
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You just say "go go gadget jet back", and off you go!

























































Depends on what system your on.
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Old 10-10-2004, 05:13 PM   #40
monkey joe
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you jump twice. or you could go to the tutorial at the beginning
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