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Old 10-09-2004, 11:59 AM   #1
richcz3
 
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Thumbs up Give them some credit

Look, I am not saying accept the state of the game, just give them credit for putting their efforts since the games release.
Two patches (albeit small) in two weeks. Word has it theres a big patch in the works.
We can hammer on all the bad details, but everytime I fire up the game I realize that this is going to be one hell of a game once it's all patched up right and stable.

The fact that guys here in Editing forum are already editing the .lvl files and changing attributes by putting alternate ships and player types on different maps, this is looking very encouraging.

My key suggestions to LA and Pandemic.
Make public announcements to PC and Console game sites(Spin, PR, anything).
Treat the Consoles and PC versions as two seperate entities. Combined news can muddy the waters. We need to know your active and things are being addressed platform specific.
Create or Update a FAQ regarding editing or tools.

Thanks, Now get to work

richcz3

Last edited by richcz3; 10-09-2004 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:04 PM   #2
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Thumbs up

Agreed.

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Old 10-09-2004, 12:13 PM   #3
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Sure. I blame LucasArts for having them rush the game out and making it console friendly.

Hopefully LA will make up for their mistake by giving Pandemic the freedom and motivation to finish this unfinished game.


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Old 10-10-2004, 03:17 AM   #4
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The money we pay for buying the game, that is in fact their reward. Of course, there is not only critics for this game. After all, if there were we wouldn't be playing it, now would we? It's just that the game can be a lot more with the proper feedback.

I don't know if there are devs reading this forum, but if they do, this is the place where they get their feedback from. This and e-mails from players (send e-mails! )


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Old 10-10-2004, 04:26 AM   #5
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I gave em 50 credits, Now where's the game I want.......


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Old 10-10-2004, 11:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kurgan
Sure. I blame LucasArts for having them rush the game out and making it console friendly.
Ummm making the game "console friendly" The last i heard this game was originally designed for the consoles... so it's more like they made the mistake of have a PC version.... so in other words, quit bitching about the PC version not being good enough, because they spent too much time on the consoles.

Us Xbox owners, have never had a game of this kinda genre (i.e. bf1942) so it is huge step for us. The Xbox version of the game is smooth, and i don't have much gripe with it.
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:00 AM   #7
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No, I'm giving them NOTHING. I'm sorry, but like alsmost every other aspect of north american society, we're being asked to expect less and less from the companies which produce these games. The game-buying public has been encouraged to accept half-assed, half-finsished games for far too long now, with the idea that eventually the developer will finish the thing, and make it a decent title. And what's worse is that we're now apparently thinking of it as the way games should be done. That's a huge, steaming load of crap, and I'm fed up with it. If a film is released, it's RELEASED. It's not ****ed around with ad nauseum in an attempt to turn it into something decent at a later date (barring the current LFL insanity, obviously....yikes). You don't buy a car with the expectation that it has only half an engine, and no brake lights, but GM will add them sometime down the road with a patch. Patches are SUPPOSED to be to FIX BUGS and balance issues that escape detection during testing. They are NOT supposed to be half the games' promised features and function. Somewhere along the line companies got convinced that the release date was more important than the quality of a title, which is pure, unadulterated bull****. Look at the games from LEC's "golden age", which they're so desperately trying to recapture now, after a dismal decade of crappy games. Every last title was late. ALWAYS. Games were always released "When it's Done", and not before. yes there were occasional patches, but they were to fix issues that came to light after release, and a few months of people playing them to death because they were SO GOOD. And these were games built from the ground up, on proprietary engines. Nothing existed, and no one had experience with what the engine could do, and what its' weaknesses were. Now, using mostly liscenced engines, the games are released less complete, less compelling, and buggier. Most of their titles are on time now, but they are poor, pale shadows of the companys' best work.
It IS unfair to lay this ONLY on LEC, as it's almost the whole industry which is following this model, now that the potential profitability of console and computer games has been realized by corporate structures; so don't think I lay it only at their door. But this is the game we're talking about, and this IS a company trying desperately to reinvent itself right now.
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:31 AM   #8
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BF1942 would have died a horrible death if gamers didn`t give EA/Dice a time to fix the bugs and balance issues.

The least we can do is give Pandemic the same amount of time.


I`ve bent my
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:33 AM   #9
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i'm a little mad that there's no dloadable content option...


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Old 10-11-2004, 11:03 AM   #10
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Aside from the quick updates I'll admt I am not happy with the way that Pandemic and LA are handeling this is in almost complete silence with the exception of a few minor dev posts on one forum that I know of.

It appears the Lucasarts page has posted a public notice on their site but how many gamers are going to know it unless the devs make a point to solicit gaming sites of such news. They need to get the word out. Something that DICE was very good at throughout the BF:1942 patch process.

I would prefer that they would defer from combining the consoles and the PC versions in their updates. These are two entirely different markets.


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Old 10-12-2004, 02:50 AM   #11
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WTF stop it! the game is rather good anyway sure it's not perfect but say a game that is absolutley perfect I mean JKA vehicles too small (have you ever thought of that) umm JKO bad multiplayer rouge leader well... dificult controls RS bad gameplay RB dificult missions come on swb is a good game man be happy they made for PC too if not i wouldnt have it probably many others so come on stop flaming lucasarts for a bad game that is'nt bad.

talk about how fun the game is.
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Old 10-12-2004, 07:43 AM   #12
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I'd give them credit

It may not be new to PC guys, but having a 16-person game that plays smooth with voicechat and a real sense of team strategy on my PS2 continuously blows my mind.
I can overlook the faults for that.
I really, really do wish they'd fix the stat tracker though. That's the one bug that still gets to me, even through all this goodness I'm feeling.
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Old 10-12-2004, 04:31 PM   #13
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You obviously have no idea what a flame is. It is not flaming to say "This needed to be done", "This is incomplete". Battlefront COULD be a good game. It has real potential. Which, as I've pointed out before, is part of what's so agravating about it. It has solid mechanics, decent balance, and absolutely NOTHING which would keep you playing longer than a couple of days. There is NO variety in play, there is no strategy involved, the AI is weak and occasionaly inexplicable. It's generally assumed there will be patches and fan mods to address this all (oh, wait, except if you're a console gamer, then, sorry, no soup for you). The point is THERE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE. This is the skeleton for a good game, and not enough meat on its bones. Why on earth do people insist on seeing this premature ejactulation of a title as acceptable, if sometime the devs may make it right...maybe...partially...for one out of three platforms...
Incidentally, all of the games you mention from LEC arachon are from during some of their darkest years, of a dark decade, and they make my argument for me. These are games rushed out the door, sacrificing playability for release dates.
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Old 10-12-2004, 09:27 PM   #14
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I love this game and cant stop playing it.

It is very enjoyable online and looks great.

But I totally agree with Skellington on this issue.

I would rather have waited another 6 months and bought a game that is finnished and actually works.

Was this game even beta tested?

Do the developers even play online games?

It truely beggers belief that it was released in this state.

They did it because they know they can make more money bundling it in with the new DVD releases, and they know from other releases that they can get away with releasing unfinished games and patching it to finish it at a later date.

Shame on you Lucasarts. (And not just for Battlefront)

(I havnt played the console versions so I am only commenting on the PC release)
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Old 10-13-2004, 08:22 AM   #15
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On the PC side we are used to multiple player models within clases (also male or female). CTF and Domination are basic FPS Multiplayer we also come to expect and not included in Battlefront.

The current selection in SW:Battlefront suits the console market just fine. If it wasn't for some technical troubles in either of the console versions, I don't think there would be any complaints. Not mentioning the serious bugs, everything from level size to game types seems way too limited for the PC side.

That being said I am sure they are getting more grief from PC gamers than both console systems combined. There is a big reason why more developers like Pandemic moved to console development. Less technical hurdles per dollar to develop and earn. And Yes, when a console game is done...it's alamost done. (I understand both consoles allow for small patch exceptions).

They (Pandemic) have released two small patches in as many weeks for the PC. It is a sign they are doing something. The word is there is a sizable patch in the works. It's for these collective reasons I give them credit.


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Old 10-13-2004, 01:21 PM   #16
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Nope, sorry, don't buy it. As far a features go, look at TimeSplitters 1 and 2, look at Unreal Tournament, look at even Quake 3. Older, ancient almost as far as the console market goes, all venerable console titles (Timesplitters exclusively so, I believe), and they incorperate everything this game should have. Multiple models, a variety of game types, and even, in the case of TS, a level editor. SWBF makes use of larger maps (and, yes, I understand the limit placed on the size and amount of architecture you can throw at a console...it bugs the hell out of me, but it's an understandable sacrifice Pandemic had to make), and more players, but what we're talking about is not RESOURCE intensive, it's DEVELOPMENT intensive. I actually think that Pandemic and LEC did a pretty good job of bug hunting, I just think they narrowed the scope of what they were trying to accomplish with the game WAY too far. I understand where you're comming from, I've worked on a couple of mod teams for PC titles before. PC games generally greater flexibilty, and the capacity to be altered significantly. That being said, there is STILL no reason, other than a mad rush for September 21st, that the game needed to sacrifice all it did.
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:55 PM   #17
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What I don't get is where on Earth the PC demo is! Geez...

Anyway, Skellington is right about several things:

- Overall quality decreasing. This is just as visible in US cartoons (case of point: Dexter's Laboratory), which are horribly drawn and just oh-so-repetitive. And as for Star Wars games.. well, there have been some good titles like Knights of the Old Republic, but in general most of them suck. Admit it. You can do so without saying a word on Battlefront. Hints: Battle for Naboo.. I've never played a worse game.

- Standards decreasing. This goes with #1. Fans expect less and less, and when people complain they are met with idiocy like "come on, without the devs the game wouldn't even be out" and other fan boy assaults.

- Money over everything. X-Wing Alliance, which was superb, was rushed so badly because LA wanted to throw the crappy Battle for Naboo to the masses "just to cover Episode I". Grrr.

As for map size: I don't buy that. Have you played Final Fantasy lately (any of the games from VII and up). Geez, the PS2 uses DVD discs, for whoever's sake! If they can squeeze in a 90 hour long role-playing game like Final Fantasy X, they can squeeze in bigger maps.

Quote:
Skellington
On the PC side we are used to multiple player models within clases (also male or female). CTF and Domination are basic FPS Multiplayer we also come to expect and not included in Battlefront. The current selection in SW:Battlefront suits the console market just fine.
Seeing there are no other FPS games for consoles, according to people here, I have no trouble believing that it's the #1 FPS game for consoles.

Arachon, read what was actually being said and stop being such a fan boy. It's people like you who let LA get away with their low standards.

--Eagle

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Old 10-13-2004, 03:20 PM   #18
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From the interviews I've read, I knew about what to expect before the game came out. It was mentioned all three versions were developed closely together and the main difference between the console and PC version was the number of people who could play online.

Even after seeing some in game movies, I was expecting a bad console port when I bought it. Well I was surprised it was pretty decent play and nice visuals for being firmly based in a console design. It's staying on my hard drive and I look forward to the sizable patch that irons out some problems.

If anyone hasn't seen the mods in the Editing section, you should really give it a look.

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Old 10-14-2004, 01:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by MURS
quit bitching about the PC version not being good enough, because they spent too much time on the consoles.

Us Xbox owners, have never had a game of this kinda genre (i.e. bf1942) so it is huge step for us. The Xbox version of the game is smooth, and i don't have much gripe with it.
No we are not going to stop bitching about it. I'm really glad that you "xbox owners" finally got a bf:42 style game. Good for you! But guess what? A LOT OF US DON'T OWN XBOXES SO THAT POINT DOESN'T REALLY APPLY TO US NOW DOES IT?!?!?! Oh did I also mention that WE SPENT OUR FIFTY PLUS DOLLARS ON A GAME THAT HAS WAY TOO MANY PROBLEMS TO MENTION?!?!? A GAME THAT WAS SHIPPED OUT UNFINSIHED!! This whole attitude of "buy our game now and we will fix it later" is not gonna fly anymore! So no, I will not "quit bitching about the PC version not being good enough"! Who the hell do yo think you are telling a whole group of consumers how we can and can not react to a product that we purchased?!?! If your happy with your xbox version..great! But don't tell us to quit bitching becasue we got short changed!
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Old 10-14-2004, 06:56 PM   #20
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Dagobahn Eagle, thanks for the support, nice to see it
About level size however, I think it actually does come down to the resources of a console. While the storage media of a DVD allows you to cram a ton of stuff onto it, Pandemic is really dealin with how much of that stuff you can throw on the screen at any one time. The problem is simply that you've got a cap of, what, 256 megs of ram on a PS2 (the weakest link in the chain), a slow CPU, and slow GPU. There's only so many polies, textures, particles, and lighting effects you can throw at that platform and expect it to perform. The bigger the level, the more draw distance issues to worry about, the more polies being pushed around by the GPU, and the more routines the CPU has to handle. Not owning the PS2 port (I do own the other two...got 'em from one of the LEC guys ), I can't speak for what it looks like, but the lighting and particles alone on the Xbox are pushing what that console has done successfully in the past. Plus, I have heard something about this being run on a modified battlezone engine, which is a few years old. The problem is that after a while, you can only squeeze so many new things into an old engine and expect it to perform smoothly; it becomes neccessary eventually to just sit down and write a new engine which will do the things you want it to. So I don't blame them for their descisions about lobotomizing the locations and art resources to fit the PS2. And, as I said, I think they actually did a good job of bug hunting and squashing...what IS in the game seems to work fine most of the time.
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Old 10-14-2004, 08:13 PM   #21
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Originally posted by Skellington
I have heard something about this being run on a modified battlezone engine, which is a few years old.
That would make sense since Pandemic's previous Star Wars game "Clone Wars" ran on a modified Battlezone 2 engine.
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Old 10-14-2004, 08:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by MURS
Ummm making the game "console friendly" The last i heard this game was originally designed for the consoles... so it's more like they made the mistake of have a PC version.... so in other words, quit bitching about the PC version not being good enough, because they spent too much time on the consoles.

Us Xbox owners, have never had a game of this kinda genre (i.e. bf1942) so it is huge step for us. The Xbox version of the game is smooth, and i don't have much gripe with it.
I use the term "console friendly" (as I imagine most of us use it) as a derrogatory term for a PC game that has been "dumbed down" to better fit the console market.

That's how this game feels. I never said it wasn't designed with consoles in mind, that's the whole point!

It seems to me the corners they cut with the PC version didn't need to be made, EXCEPT for the fact that LucasArts rushed this game out the door to make the Sept 21st DVD release deadline. Considering console games always stand to make more money (lowered expectations, inflated prices and longer shelf life) it makes sense that they'd focus on the console versions and just do a straight port for the PC.

Let's put aside the bugs and crashes for a minute. What's with the lack of features? I mean, 20-30 fps cap? A poorly done server browser? No rcon for admins? Not even a console?

C'mon, pc gamers expect more. You can't expect to release a game in the condition this one was in on the pc market and not get complaints.

If this was a bargain bin title you'd see lavish praise at how high quality it was, but this is a big bugdet, high profile Star Wars release that was supposed to be the ultimate simulation of the Star Wars movie battles. So it's not surprising you'd get some criticism.

And you're right about the console market. You literally have nothing to compare this game to, and it must be incredibly awesome. In the PC market we have at least a half dozen games like this, and dozens of games that do many of the same things better (albeit most of them don't have the Star Wars liscense behind them), so yes, we are spoiled. If you're used to eating steak, a bologna sandwich just isn't the same.

This isn't a BAD GAME, far from it, but it could have stood to be a GREAT GAME on the PC if they'd been given more time to polish it and add features & options that pc gamers have come to expect.

It's good that they are working on patching the game, it really is. Hopefully they can make up for some of the disappointment.


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Old 10-14-2004, 09:39 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Kurgan


This isn't a BAD GAME, far from it, but it could have stood to be a GREAT GAME on the PC if they'd been given more time to polish it and add features & options that pc gamers have come to expect.
That statement says it all! So true!!!

Not to mention that if this game DIDN'T have star wars in it, it would probably be selling for under 20 dollars by now, becasue there are games out there that do what this game does and does it better. But none of them are star wars.

But I am optimistic about patches. It looks like Pandemic wants to finish what it has started and I commend them for that. But I will still bitch if I am not happy. That is our right as consumers and our duty. It's the squeaky wheel that gets the greasin'
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Old 10-14-2004, 10:18 PM   #24
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For LA BF:1942 sales were hard to ignore.
Pandemic already had experience making vehicle and troop entity games. They were a natural pick for this game. I don't believe the PC port was an easy sell if it wasn't for the overwhelming sales of BF:1942 and its subsequent Expansion packs = $$$
Of all the dev time, I bet the PC chewed allot more time/resources than its console counterparts. For me the basic oversites in the PC version reflect this. The consoles were priority ONE. Get the PC version out and see how it does. Now the PC version is chewing up even more time to get it functional.

You guys should do a search for Pandemic interviews regarding SW:BF. They are pretty telling now in hindsight since the game was released.
"Are there going to be tools and modifications allowable on the PC version?" response "We're going to wait and see" So if the PC sales hold up, we can hope to see meaningful updates and possible of expansion packs.


One thing we can all agree on is that the PC version has allot of promise and potential.

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